Are We Slaves?

[Coloradomtnman]

I'm awakened in the morning by an alarm clock manufactured by Sony which I bought at Target. My bed was manufactured by a corporation, and so were the sheets and comforter that I have on it, and I bought them all from a corporation. The materials that went into the house in which I live were manufactured and purchased from corporations. The food I eat comes from large farms run by corporations, or is purchased by corporations from small farms, and then processed by corporations, and distributed by corporations, to stores owned by corporations. Then I drive to work in a car manufactured by a corporation. I work at a corporation to earn money to buy stuff from corporations. Then I go home, eat, sleep, and do it all again, five times a week, 51 weeks a year. I joined the military at the age of 18 for a number of reasons, but one of which was to earn money for college. I went to college to increase my opportunity of becoming a higher ranking slave. A higher ranking slave has a better opportunity to buy his/her freedom.

I trade my time, the years of my life, my youth, to corporations (because of which the owners or board of investors become wealthier) in return for money which I spend at corporations (causing the owners or board of investors to become wealthier). Even were I to work for a non-profit, I have to be a slave. And all this in the hopes that I might either start my own business (which still, in essence means I'm a slave, just a more independent one), or work my way up the corporate ladder (becoming a higher ranking and more priveleged corporate slave), becoming wealthy enough to buy my freedom, or finally having the ability to retire (and surviving on funds managed by corporations causing owners or board of investors to become wealthier). Then, one day, I'll die.

Does a slave have a choice? I could quit my job, live on the street, survive on hand-outs and charities, and live a life that, at least materially, is of low quality but with increased freedom from corporate slavery. However, I won't be able to travel to Europe or go trekking in Nepal. I won't be able to eat gourmet meals or sleep in a place that is safe. I won't be able to own property. And, in a way, life in that situation would have little meaning.

So is my choice either corporate slavery or impoverished homelessness? What do you think?

 

[editec]

Puppets would be more the metaphor I would choose.

Slaves are valued tools which the masters feel some enlighten self interest in keeping in good working order.

 

[jillian]

slaves are people who do involuntary labor for no money.

i really hate misuse of words. ;o(

 

[manifold]

Yep, life requires we all be slaves to the needs of our own survival.

Go have a drink or smoke a joint, it'll make you feel better.

 

[editec]

I think you're being rather hard on Coloradoman, here.

If one demands literalism, then of course the only type of enslavement is that where people are chattel, which can be bought and sold.

But we also all know that one can be enslaved by other means that by taking leegal ownership of people, too.

The phrase "wage slave" used two words to describe it and to differentialte it from slave.

And that is what C-man was talking about.

And I think we all knew that, too.

He wasn't attempting to make a political science point, but rather a humanistic philosophical point.

If, for example, I said that we are slaves to materialism, you would all understand (I hope) that I wasn't saying that our possessions owned us in the legal sense, but rather that we are enslaving ourselves to a materialistic lifestyle.

 

[manifold]

Hey CM, talk to editec. It appears that he has some of the good shit.

 

[Paulie]

You're a slave because you chose to purchase goods from corporations? I don't get it.

Are you a slave to the home-based jerky industry when you choose to stop and grab some from the guy selling it on the on the side of the highway?

There are off-the-grid communes that exist out your way mountain man, why don't you join one and free yourself?

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Yep, life requires we all be slaves to the needs of our own survival.

Go have a drink or smoke a joint, it'll make you feel better.

Yes, I understand that manifold. I think you missed the point. I'm talking about how we're all slaves to corporations for our needs to survive.

I don't drink or smoke pot; I just think that these corporations have a monopoly on opportunity. Either you work and buy from them, making a few wealthy people wealthier or you start your own business, which makes fewer wealthy people wealthier. Or just quit society altogether. Not much in the way of options, don't you think? Wouldn't it be nice to only buy local from real individuals whose work is directly tied to their quality of life and not worry about Wal-Mart or McDonald's ruining your business, your work, and your savings? I think that would create a very real sense of community and strengthen the bonds between human beings.

At least that way there wouldn't be anyone "to big to fail"...

 

[Coloradomtnman]

You're a slave because you chose to purchase goods from corporations? I don't get it.

Are you a slave to the home-based jerky industry when you choose to stop and grab some from the guy selling it on the on the side of the highway?

There are off-the-grid communes that exist out your way mountain man, why don't you join one and free yourself?

I understand that not everything is bought and sold or manufactured by corporations, Paulie. But the vast majority of goods and services are supplied by corporations, many of which can't be purchased from anywhere or anyone else i.e. automobiles, tv's, microwave ovens, house siding, fuel, etc. etc.

Even members of off-grid communes drive cars, ride trains or planes, listen to radios, or play instruments (hand drums probably) or use telephones or internet services, among other things. There might be a very small few who actually are entirely removed from society, but, like I said, what is their quality of life? Medicine, medical equipment are produced by corporations, and most hospitals are run by corporations.

You don't think you are pawn of corporations, Paulie?

If you don't, could that be almost like social brainwashing (at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist)?

 

[Paulie]

The problem is that you're making it out to be like it's somehow a detriment. The PROBLEM is the regulations that exist that make it almost impossible for competition.

There are other cars besides the big corporations' cars. You don't have to sleep with corporate bedding, you can make your own. You don't have to smoke Phillip Morris, you can just quit. You don't have to watch TV. You get the point I hope.

You just hate corporations becuase they're full of rich people and you're not rich. Otherwise, they provide you with products that you apparently WANT, or you wouldn't be complaining about it.

If you're going to complain about corps having the monopoly on your life, you should lobby congress to ease regulatory standards so smaller companies can have a legitimate shot to emerge in their markets.

Otherwise, all you're really doing is whining about business like a typical liberal.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

The problem is that you're making it out to be like it's somehow a detriment. The PROBLEM is the regulations that exist that make it almost impossible for competition.

There are other cars besides the big corporations' cars. You don't have to sleep with corporate bedding, you can make your own. You don't have to smoke Phillip Morris, you can just quit. You don't have to watch TV. You get the point I hope.

You just hate corporations becuase they're full of rich people and you're not rich. Otherwise, they provide you with products that you apparently WANT, or you wouldn't be complaining about it.

If you're going to complain about corps having the monopoly on your life, you should lobby congress to ease regulatory standards so smaller companies can have a legitimate shot to emerge in their markets.

Otherwise, all you're really doing is whining about business like a typical liberal.

Out of what material would I make the blankets on my bed? Where would I get those materials? Sheep? Where do I raise them, where do I get the shears, how do I feed them, how do I learn to spin wool into workable thread?

What other cars are there? How do I afford one?

Should I read books instead of watching the tv? Where do I buy those books? At a local book store, if I can find one? Who produced those books?

I get your point, but you don't get the point.

I don't hate corporations because they're full of rich people (because they're not), but because my opportunities to work for myself are greatly reduced due to the existence and practices of large corporations (and their ability and resources to lobby to maintain the regulations which help to keep them in business and me out). I also don't like that the pollute the environment and do everything they can to keep it so that they can pollute. I also don't like that they do everything they can to pay their employees less and maintain the lowest level of health coverage and vacation time. They lobby to keep minimum wage at a below poverty level minimum. In fact, what are huge, mulitnational corporations good for?!

I am not complaining about business. I support small business 100%. Which I why I am complaining, if you wish to call it that, about large corporations. And the multitudes of pawns which cluelessly go about their lives keeping them in power: people like you, Paulie, who, in my opinion, wrongly believe there is nothing wrong with large corporations who have their hands in each and every aspect of our daily and long-term lives.

Go ahead, Paulie, try to get rich. There isn't much chance that you will, but go ahead and try. I hope you every success. You'll be happy, and convinced that the status quo really does work.

 

[manu1959]

You're a slave because you chose to purchase goods from corporations? I don't get it.

Are you a slave to the home-based jerky industry when you choose to stop and grab some from the guy selling it on the on the side of the highway?

There are off-the-grid communes that exist out your way mountain man, why don't you join one and free yourself?

I understand that not everything is bought and sold or manufactured by corporations, Paulie. But the vast majority of goods and services are supplied by corporations, many of which can't be purchased from anywhere or anyone else i.e. automobiles, tv's, microwave ovens, house siding, fuel, etc. etc.

Even members of off-grid communes drive cars, ride trains or planes, listen to radios, or play instruments (hand drums probably) or use telephones or internet services, among other things. There might be a very small few who actually are entirely removed from society, but, like I said, what is their quality of life? Medicine, medical equipment are produced by corporations, and most hospitals are run by corporations.

You don't think you are pawn of corporations, Paulie?

If you don't, could that be almost like social brainwashing (at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist)?

become a quaker.....they are as close as you will get....

 

[editec]

You're a slave because you chose to purchase goods from corporations? I don't get it.

Are you a slave to the home-based jerky industry when you choose to stop and grab some from the guy selling it on the on the side of the highway?

There are off-the-grid communes that exist out your way mountain man, why don't you join one and free yourself?

I understand that not everything is bought and sold or manufactured by corporations, Paulie. But the vast majority of goods and services are supplied by corporations, many of which can't be purchased from anywhere or anyone else i.e. automobiles, tv's, microwave ovens, house siding, fuel, etc. etc.

Even members of off-grid communes drive cars, ride trains or planes, listen to radios, or play instruments (hand drums probably) or use telephones or internet services, among other things. There might be a very small few who actually are entirely removed from society, but, like I said, what is their quality of life? Medicine, medical equipment are produced by corporations, and most hospitals are run by corporations.

You don't think you are pawn of corporations, Paulie?

If you don't, could that be almost like social brainwashing (at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist)?

The objections your position is facing are the objections of people who are suffering from the Economic stockholm syndrome.

People don't like to be reminded that they are dependent on the system for their lifestyles.

Some of them really do imagine that if the whole civilization things goes belly up, they'll be able to pioneer their way into another suitable lifestyle.

They truly have no idea how totally dependent we all are on the massive corporate system which provides enough stuff for this nation to support 300,000,000 people here.

They take objection to being called SLAVES to the system.

Some of them take such objection to the very idea that their fate is in ANY WAY dependent on the society's well being, that they'll tell you that they are self made men or women.

Most of us, the VAST majority of us, and likely every one of us who comes to this place are, as dependent of the SYSTEM which you were seeking to describe as a form of slavery, as a FISH are INDEPENDENT OF THE WATER IN WHICH THEY SCHOOL.

Were the system to collapse, and I in the position of having to refound a society?

I might be able to cobble together the quality of life of a isolated peasant of the 10th century, but only until some overlord came to pillage my crops and put me into some REAL slave's position.

As much as I agree that we are all somewhat enslaved to this system, few of us could, through our own resources, create a system which served us better.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

become a quaker.....they are as close as you will get....

I thought about the Amish as well, but are even they completely removed from corporate influence? Are they entirely reliant on only the things which they produce? For example, do they grow all their own lumber?

 

[manu1959]

become a quaker.....they are as close as you will get....

I thought about the Amish as well, but are even they completely removed from corporate influence? Are they entirely reliant on only the things which they produce? For example, do they grow all their own lumber?

sorry....that is what i meant amish......they try to be as independent as possible....

 

[editec]

become a quaker.....they are as close as you will get....

I thought about the Amish as well, but are even they completely removed from corporate influence? Are they entirely reliant on only the things which they produce? For example, do they grow all their own lumber?

Theirs is a communal society coexisting depite an overlording society.

I suspect were that society to just go away, they might actually thrive better than they do now.

NOW, they have to cope with the pressures this society puts on them to pay taxes.

I suspect that most of them still gain benefits from the goods that this overloarding society provides.

I doubt any of them forge their own iron for example,

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Hey editec, I just tried to look up Economic Stockholm Syndrome and found nothing. Where did you find that term? I would like to know more...

 

[manu1959]

become a quaker.....they are as close as you will get....

I thought about the Amish as well, but are even they completely removed from corporate influence? Are they entirely reliant on only the things which they produce? For example, do they grow all their own lumber?

Theirs is a communal society coexisting depite an overlording society.

I suspect were that society to just go away, they might actually thrive better than they do now.

NOW, they have to cope with the pressures this society puts on them to pay taxes.

I suspect that most of them still gain benefits from the goods that this overloarding society provides.

I doubt any of them forge their own iron for example,

Rules/Ordnung

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Rules/Ordnung

Well, there you go. They aren't completely removed from society, and thereby, the influence of large corporations.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yep, life requires we all be slaves to the needs of our own survival.

Go have a drink or smoke a joint, it'll make you feel better.

Yes, I understand that manifold. I think you missed the point. I'm talking about how we're all slaves to corporations for our needs to survive.

You don't "need" to buy a North Face fleece and Gore-Tex jacket to survive. You don't "need" your Scarpa boots or your Black Diamond tent or your Petzl climbing gear to survive.

You chose to buy those things. You chose to trade your hours, days, years for dollars to buy those things.

you do not "need" to buy groceries from a corporation, you can grow a great deal of your own food even if you live in an apartment. you can preserve your own fruits and vegetables or you can buy all your produce from a farmers' market and preserve it yourself.

You don't "need" to buy Levis jeans. you can hire a seamstress to make your pants and shirts, you can even make your own Gore tex and fleece jackets. All you have to do is buy the patterns and materials.

You certainly do not "need" a computer, TV or I pod to survive.

Please do not confuse wants with needs. you do what you do because it is more convenient than not doing it.

Face it you don't want to make your own clothes or hire a tailor to make them for you, you don't want to grow your own food and preserve it.

You are whining that you are a slave but you are a "slave" by choice and your premise is self contradictory and therefore invalid.