Are we getting stupider? Why or why not? Evidence?

[Unkotare]

^^^ You saying that it is irrational does not make it a fact.

No, it IS irrational, in and of itself. Just because you are entitled to your opinion doesn't mean you are entitled to your own logic. It doesn't work that way.

 

[Foxfyre]

Whats UBC?

It is experimental biology to alter natural processes. Growth hormones or growth restricting substances would be UBC products. What Paravani is suggesting is a substance that would prevent pregnancy generally administered, say in the water supply. Considering how well all this has worked out in artificially manipulating our food supply, how comfortable should any of us be in government manipulation of our biological processes?

The flouride controversy hasn't been fully settled yet for heaven's sake.

The flouride "controversy" hasn't been settled just like the vaccinations causing autism controversy hasn't been settled. Its been settled plenty, people just like to cling to their conspiracy theories.

To continue, this past spring, my own city discontinued adding flouride to the drinking water. The controversy is by no means over.

KOB News 4 in Albuquerque reports that, after much deliberation, officials from the Albuquerque Water Authority decided that it is no longer necessary to fluoridate the city's water supply. Since some naturally-occurring fluoride is already present in the Albuquerque water supply, the city will instead "err on the side of caution," to quote the words of the Water Authority's David Morris.

And why, exactly, is the city employing "caution" in the matter? First, the fluoride that continues to be added to many water supplies across America is not actually fluoride at all. It is either sodium fluoride, sodium fluorosilicate, or fluorosilicic acid, all of which are highly-toxic, industrial waste byproducts with no scientifically demonstrable health benefits.

In fact, these poser fluoride compounds have been shown in many recent studies to cause severe health problems, including tooth decay. Synthetic fluorides are also responsible for causing developmental problems in children, brain damage, lowered IQ, thyroid disorders, bone damage, hormone disruption and cancer (Fluoride Action Network | Health Effects).

Learn more: Albuquerque, NM, 32nd largest US city, ends water fluoridation

 

[sakinago]

It is experimental biology to alter natural processes. Growth hormones or growth restricting substances would be UBC products. What Paravani is suggesting is a substance that would prevent pregnancy generally administered, say in the water supply. Considering how well all this has worked out in artificially manipulating our food supply, how comfortable should any of us be in government manipulation of our biological processes?

The flouride controversy hasn't been fully settled yet for heaven's sake.

The flouride "controversy" hasn't been settled just like the vaccinations causing autism controversy hasn't been settled. Its been settled plenty, people just like to cling to their conspiracy theories.

To continue, this past spring, my own city discontinued adding flouride to the drinking water. The controversy is by no means over.

KOB News 4 in Albuquerque reports that, after much deliberation, officials from the Albuquerque Water Authority decided that it is no longer necessary to fluoridate the city's water supply. Since some naturally-occurring fluoride is already present in the Albuquerque water supply, the city will instead "err on the side of caution," to quote the words of the Water Authority's David Morris.

And why, exactly, is the city employing "caution" in the matter? First, the fluoride that continues to be added to many water supplies across America is not actually fluoride at all. It is either sodium fluoride, sodium fluorosilicate, or fluorosilicic acid, all of which are highly-toxic, industrial waste byproducts with no scientifically demonstrable health benefits.

In fact, these poser fluoride compounds have been shown in many recent studies to cause severe health problems, including tooth decay. Synthetic fluorides are also responsible for causing developmental problems in children, brain damage, lowered IQ, thyroid disorders, bone damage, hormone disruption and cancer (Fluoride Action Network | Health Effects).

Learn more: Albuquerque, NM, 32nd largest US city, ends water fluoridation

Im not doubting that at all, I am just saying the conversation should have been long over, some people would rather listen to claims of the few idiots, than listen to the scientific studies that say flouride in water is a good thing. Just like there is no evidence that autism is caused by vaccines, its just some bogus study that some idiot put in the greatest source of science, The Rolling Stone (this is sarcasm btw). But people still dont take their kids to get vaccinated because they would rather cling to what they read in Rolling Stone, rather than do what their doctor tells them. And these idiots are the reason why we still have diseases in america that should have been extinct a long time ago.

 

[Foxfyre]

Maybe it should have long been over, but it isn't. Did you know about what sort of stuff they were putting in your water to protect your teeth? I sure didn't until all the bruhaha came up about whether Albuquerque would continue the additives. And it turns out it was a kind of poison that in large quantities are highly toxic and in fact probably was doing absolutely nothing to prevent toooth decay.

Like I say, a healthty suspicion and skepticism about what we give others the power to do to us is a very wise thing to have. And I would certainly have such suspicion and skepticism about any attempt by the government to control births in the country by some kind of UBC substance put in our drinking water.

 

[sakinago]

It is experimental biology to alter natural processes. Growth hormones or growth restricting substances would be UBC products. What Paravani is suggesting is a substance that would prevent pregnancy generally administered, say in the water supply. Considering how well all this has worked out in artificially manipulating our food supply, how comfortable should any of us be in government manipulation of our biological processes?

The flouride controversy hasn't been fully settled yet for heaven's sake.

The flouride "controversy" hasn't been settled just like the vaccinations causing autism controversy hasn't been settled. Its been settled plenty, people just like to cling to their conspiracy theories.

It isn't conspiracy theories though. It is a healthy concern about what is placed in the food and water that we all have to use and what the long range effects of the foreign substances will be. It is understanding that there is no medicine that does not contain some poison and not knowing what the safe levels of those are for all. And it is understanding that if we do not defend our freedom to know and control what is imposed on our bodies, nobody else is going to always do that for us. And there are unethical people in the world who will take advantage of any given situation given opportunity to do so.

Uh the studies have been done, many times, over many years. Ask any single dentist if its a good idea for flouride in the water. People don't want to pay attention to the studies, because they want something to be concerned about. Just turn on the news, I saw the other day that they were claiming rice is dangerous, even though the FDA (which has very strict regulations) said no its really okay. The news anchors didnt concentrate on what the FDA said, they wanted talk about the possible "dangers" in rice, and give it a big headline like "RICE: Is it dangerous?" There is a reason the news is like that, and its because thats what people want to hear, they like scandal.

 

[sakinago]

Maybe it should have long been over, but it isn't. Did you know about what sort of stuff they were putting in your water to protect your teeth? I sure didn't until all the bruhaha came up about whether Albuquerque would continue the additives. And it turns out it was a kind of poison that in large quantities are highly toxic and in fact probably was doing absolutely nothing to prevent toooth decay.

Like I say, a healthty suspicion and skepticism about what we give others the power to do to us is a very wise thing to have. And I would certainly have such suspicion and skepticism about any attempt by the government to control births in the country by some kind of UBC substance put in our drinking water.

How did you not know it was in the water?

And anything is poisonous at high doses, but you would probably die from water poisoning (yes it is a real thing) before the poisoning of the flouride in the water.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

^^^ You saying that it is irrational does not make it a fact.

No, it IS irrational, in and of itself. Just because you are entitled to your opinion doesn't mean you are entitled to your own logic. It doesn't work that way.

You do realize that what you say here goes for you as well, right?

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[Foxfyre]

I don[t suppose it would help to ask Unkotare and JOSweetheart to take their "is too/is not" argument to the Flame Zone and stop annoying people with it here? Please? Pretty please?

 

[Foxfyre]

Maybe it should have long been over, but it isn't. Did you know about what sort of stuff they were putting in your water to protect your teeth? I sure didn't until all the bruhaha came up about whether Albuquerque would continue the additives. And it turns out it was a kind of poison that in large quantities are highly toxic and in fact probably was doing absolutely nothing to prevent toooth decay.

Like I say, a healthty suspicion and skepticism about what we give others the power to do to us is a very wise thing to have. And I would certainly have such suspicion and skepticism about any attempt by the government to control births in the country by some kind of UBC substance put in our drinking water.

How did you not know it was in the water?

And anything is poisonous at high doses, but you would probably die from water poisoning (yes it is a real thing) before the poisoning of the flouride in the water.

Did you read anything in the link? The issue is not whether flouride helps prevent tooth decay. We know it does. And up until this year I trusted them that they were putting flouride into our water. But that is not what they put in our water. Try again.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

I don[t suppose it would help to ask Unkotare and JOSweetheart to take their "is too/is not" argument to the Flame Zone and stop annoying people with it here? Please? Pretty please?

I don't mean to come across as rude, but for the record, I was asked to be a part of this chat by the person who started it. If another person doesn't like what I brought to it, then they should be the one who leaves when they are the one who has the problem with what they are finding in it.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[Unkotare]

^^^ You saying that it is irrational does not make it a fact.

No, it IS irrational, in and of itself. Just because you are entitled to your opinion doesn't mean you are entitled to your own logic. It doesn't work that way.

You do realize that what you say here goes for you as well, right?

Yes I do. That's why I try not to say irrational things as you have done.

 

[Unkotare]

I don[t suppose it would help to ask ?

No, it would not.

 

[paravani]

Hi, Foxfyre!

No dear Paravani, I'm not making it up as I go along, though I did previously misspeak. I meant to say UBC-LIKE products. But you are correct. I am not a bio-chemist though I doubt you have any idea what my training or expertise is.

My point is that we really don't know what might be developed; and considering that biotechnology is moving ahead by leaps and bounds, the ideal solution for UCB might be discovered tomorrow.

(I want to start a thread about the Nobel Prizes, which were awarded last week. Last Monday, the prize in medicine went to two biologists who jointly discovered how to make mature cells revert back to "stem cells", the "baby" cells that can differentiate into any kind of mature cell. This discovery was so revolutionary that "textbooks have been rewritten", according to the announcement; and it is probably the first step towards a true "eternal youth" therapy.)

Here are Wal-mart's water prices for what people would likely be carrying around.
Walmart.com: Grocery: Beverages: Water

And I'm pretty sure Wal-mart's prices are about as cheap as people can buy anywhere. But if we go with what you say you have priced out, it is still darn inconvenient to have to haul sufficient water around with you everywhere you go. Otherwise you're stuck with buying expensive bottled water which is okay in the short term.

Walmart only lists online prices for those things that might be mail-ordered. Nobody is going to ship gallon containers of water. Grocery stores also sell "refill" gallons of water very cheaply.

Yes, it's inconvenient -- that's the point. Babies are inconvenient, too; parents who really want to make a baby will put up with the inconvenience. (I know I would have, if it had been necessary to make my daughter.)

The downside of a UBC laced water supply:
1. There would be no way to insulate children from it and no way to know what the effects might be for the long term until it was too late.

Again, that it have ZERO effects on children or anyone else must be a requirement. It's not optional that it be otherwise completely benign.

2. It forces the responsible to be subjected to a substance in their water to address the irresponsibility of others.

Um, is this the same lady who has been complaining about the size of the welfare rolls?

News flash: the responsible people are ALREADY subsidizing the irresponsibility of others. UBC will be a MUCH less expensive subsidy.

3. It opens the door for government to introduce any substance for any purpose it wants into our water supply.

Fluoride already did that.


Okay, any more questions, comments, objections?

-- Paravani

 

[Foxfyre]

Well I obviously have not been effective in making my point here, and so far nobody seems to understand it. And since I don't know how to make it any better than I have, I'll throw in the towel on this one and move on. I'll wish you all a very good night.

 

[paravani]

Hi, Sakinago!

The flouride controversy hasn't been fully settled yet for heaven's sake.

The flouride "controversy" hasn't been settled just like the vaccinations causing autism controversy hasn't been settled. Its been settled plenty, people just like to cling to their conspiracy theories.

Again... obviously there would be riots if anyone proposed putting a harmful substance into our water supply.

Foxfyre keeps objecting that UBC would involve harmful hormones, based on her knowledge of current birth control technology; but what we are discussing here isn't current technology, but technology that will exist in the future, that does not exist now (as far as I know).

Thanks again for your comments, Sakinago!

--Paravani

 

[rdean]

Hi, folks!

It's my personal belief that we as a nation are getting stupider by the day.

I don't mean that we make bad choices -- I mean that literally, our average intelligence is dropping with every new generation.

Stupid parents are having more babies than smart parents, and our well-developed civilization makes it easy for even the very stupid to survive and breed another generation.

Well, of course that's the case -- civilization is supposed to make it easy to survive. That's its whole reason for being!

... But civilizations fall; and one of the reasons they fall is that their populations eventually become too stupid to maintain them. In fact, every civilization before this one has fallen, and many of them lasted much longer than this one has.

Our world population has ballooned to 7 BILLION people. That's so many people that if you counted ten of them every second, it would take you almost 222 YEARS to count them all! That large a population places a huge strain on the environment and resources of our planet, and if we don't get a whole lot smarter very fast, our civilization will collapse under the weight of all those billions.

It's time to put our collective heads together and come up with solutions that will work.

So, first of all -- do you agree or not that people are becoming stupider? And what, if any, evidence can you present to support your opinion?

Secondly, if you DO agree that people are becoming stupider, what solutions can you propose to reverse that trend? What do you see as the root causes, and how would you propose to address those causes?

Thanks in advance to all who participate on the thread!

-- Paravani

Look at Republicans. They put "magical creationists" on the National Science Committee.

 

[Foxfyre]

Just one final objection to having my position misrepresented here. I said or implied nothing like that Paravani. If you are going to invoke my name, I must insist that the arguments I have made be presented accurately. You don't have to agree with them. Just be accurate and honest about what they are.

 

[paravani]

Hi, Foxfyre!

Just one final objection to having my position misrepresented here. I said or implied nothing like that Paravani. If you are going to invoke my name, I must insist that the arguments I have made be presented accurately. You don't have to agree with them. Just be accurate and honest about what they are.

I'm really sorry, Foxfyre, I didn't mean to bulldoze over you. I thought I was addressing your concerns; but if I was misrepresenting your concerns, please clarify what you meant? You haven't quoted me or the quote I misread, so I'm not sure what you mean?

Thanks for a second chance, Foxfyre!

-- Paravani

 

[JOSweetHeart]

No, it IS irrational, in and of itself. Just because you are entitled to your opinion doesn't mean you are entitled to your own logic. It doesn't work that way.

You do realize that what you say here goes for you as well, right?

Yes I do. That's why I try not to say irrational things as you have done.

Well if no one has ever called you out on doing such a thing, that doesn't mean that you never have. Those who think that you say irrational things may not have the time to explain to you the things that you say.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[Againsheila]

Of course we're getting stupider, have you seen the people we've been electing to office?