Zone1 Are any Christians here interested to know WHY Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah?

[Manonthestreet]

That doesn't impart a lot of confidence.

The New Testament avers the veracity of those things. They occurred in a reasonable span of time, albeit in ways counter to Israelite convention (or specifically to Jewish convention).

But it's been thousands of years already under your paradigm (or nearly 2000 years for the temple), and what? Still waiting? When has anything in the Scriptures ever taken that long?

And how do those things materialize? In what possible ways?

Adherence to ancient Jewish custom is your prerogative, but to my mind, modern Jewish thought seems to have abandoned that ancient temple plantation, which by general metrics seems reasonable. Even Christians who claim those prophecies are not fulfilled get mocked and jeered.

How many yrs did it take for Christ to appear....

 

[DGS49]

All of Christianity rests on the foundation of the Resurrection. What proof is there?

Well, there is this: All of the apostles had the chance to save their lives if only they would disavow their belief in Jesus, and none of them did. Even to THEM, the Resurrection was the "exclamation point" on Christ's teachings. How many historical religious leaders inspired this sort of insane loyalty? The answer is approximately zero.

The person we now call "Jesus Christ" was born, lived, and died an Orthodox Jew, as were the Apostles. Consider that, as important as He was to them, they wouldn't even go to the site of his interment on the Sabbath, but waited until sunrise on the day after the Sabbath, because of jewish laws. These were believing, practicing jews.

Regardless of whether Jesus was the promised leader (use whatever term you like), it is clear theologically that Judaism is an incomplete belief system. It has no formal teaching on the afterlife, or what will result from a life of virtue as contrasted with a live of evil. Incomplete. Unsatisfactory.

Believe what you want to believe. The jews have traditions and mountains of philosophy to refer to. But it is still unfinished.

 

[rightwinger]

You are confusing Immaculate Conception with Virgin Birth.

Either way it relies on faith rather than evidence of how else a 15 year old could have possibly gotten pregnant and given birth

 

[Woodznutz]

Most prophecy was written after the fact.

Most prophecy has yet to be fulfilled.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

And you, as we, are entitled to your faith. What is it that you do believe? Regardless the attempt to stand on the scientific method and declaim against the ignorance of all who disagree, science is still a form of faith. They earnestly believe they WILL find the answers if they work at it long enough.

No harm and no foul to any believer in God. All have a right to believe as they will. To paraphrase Pascal - If those who trust in God are wrong, they will never become aware of it. Those who reject that faith may find they missed out on a joy unspeakable. We each, ALL OF US, will make that choice and take the consequences that come.

All true except some may have had life experiences as PROOF that you simply cannot accept.

For my, my "beliefs" are based on EXPERIENCE and not blind faith. Some can't accept that you may know things they don't.

I will tell you this. God will not reveal Himself to a closed mind.

 

[Meriweather]

4) Christians have mistranslated the “Suffering Servant” alluded to in the OT as Jesus, when it refers to Israel.

Yes, the suffering servant in Isaiah is Israel. Matthew used the Torah and the Tanakh as a foreshadowing to his life of Jesus. I believe his intent may have been that the Torah and Tanakh point to Jesus and Jesus points to the Tanakh and Torah. In Matthew's view, the suffering servant is not either or, it is both, but in Judaism it is my understanding it is always Israel as a whole.

 

[Woodznutz]

I don't know, but I do believe in miracles, and I am not one to say that I believe in my miracles, but not the miracles that happened to someone else.

Anyone that doesn't believe in miracles should talk to anyone that has travelled into space.

 

[Meriweather]

Just to clear things up the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary's conception and birth being free from original sin. The Virgin Birth teaches Jesus was born of a virgin mother without an earthly father.

Yes. Thank you!

 

[surada]

Most prophecy has yet to be fulfilled.

According to the futurists..

The scriptures were amended several times most notability during the reign of King Omri.. but it was an ongoing effort.

 

[Woodznutz]

I don't worship Mary, nor does any Catholic or Orthodox.

Are you saying other non-Catholic Christians worship Mary? If so, I believe you are mistaken on that account as well.

So now you know. No one worships Mary. You now possess that knowledge, and are no longer uninformed.

Lots of Catholics worship Mary.

 

[Esdraelon]

Troops from all over the Roman empire gathered on the plain of Megiddo to attack Israel under Vespasian and Titus in 66 AD.

Yes, and laid siege and by AD 70 had destroyed most of the city, all of the Temple, and killed nearly a million. If you are a Preterist, there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. But then, I have no duty to do so. Believe as you like.
The events that are heating up right now will require actual mental gymnastics to ignore as prophecy in the coming months and few years. The world is committing a kind of suicide of traditional culture and is becoming a global entity that will eventually have ONE leader.

*SPOILER ALERT*When that day arrives, be prepared for horrors that will be unimaginable.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Yes, the suffering servant in Isaiah is Israel. Matthew used the Torah and the Tanakh as a foreshadowing to his life of Jesus. I believe his intent may have been that the Torah and Tanakh point to Jesus and Jesus points to the Tanakh and Torah. In Matthew's view, the suffering servant is not either or, it is both, but in Judaism it is my understanding it is always Israel as a whole.

And that Passover lamb SHOULD tell the Jews something. It is obvious but they have their blinders -- for now.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I don't worship Mary, nor does any Catholic or Orthodox.

Are you saying other non-Catholic Christians worship Mary? If so, I believe you are mistaken on that account as well.

So now you know. No one worships Mary. You now possess that knowledge, and are no longer uninformed.

Catholics worship Mary.

Definition
show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites.
"the Maya built jungle pyramids to worship their gods

 

[GMCGeneral]

1) As Surada said, Jesus did not fulfill the Messianic prophesis:

a) All Jews will be gathered in Israel - hasn’t happened yet
b) The Messiah will build (or accomplish) the 3rd Temple - nope, still waiting
c) There will be worldwide peace: “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation; neither shall man learn war anymore.” (From Isiah)


2) Jesus did not fulfill the personal attributes of the Messiah:

As Jews do not believe in Demi-gods or any Supreme Being other than the one and only G-d, the Messiah will be born of human parents - with a father descended from David. Since Christians say Jesus’ father was G-d, a concept foreign to Judaism, he of course does not fulfill this.


3) The Messiah will obey the Law, and lead the people to full Torah observance - as all commandments are binding forever. Jesus did not do this, and changed the law. He told Jews that kashrut was no longer necessary, and he violated the Sabbath.


4) Christians have mistranslated the “Suffering Servant” alluded to in the OT as Jesus, when it refers to Israel.

There’s more, but this is a start.

NOTE: I would like to have a respectful debate, and remind posters that this is Zone 1. Thank you.

The new temple will be the home of Antichrist. He would bring about a false peace. John spoke of him as the Rider on the White Horse.

 

[Meriweather]

Lots of Catholics worship Mary.

So you and Death Angel are the ones who started that rumor?

No. Catholics.do.not.worship.Mary. Never have. Honor her, certainly, for the part she played in the life of Jesus. Like the rest of the Church she is a member of the Body of Christ who worship God alone.

 

[Meriweather]

Definition
show reverence and adoration

We show honor and respect. Hopefully that clears this up. Ignorance is not bliss.

 

[Woodznutz]

If you don’t feel compelled to tell me why Jesus was the Messiah, I have no need or interest in telling you why Jews believe he wasn’t.

My comment is directed at Christians who tell Jews why Jesus was Messiah. I wanted an opportunity to explain to THEM why Jews think he isn’t.

Everyone else….doesn’t matter.

Biblical proof of Jesus' messiahship is too long a study for this forum.

 

[strollingbones]

Lisa558 i am interested

 

[surada]

Yes, and laid siege and by AD 70 had destroyed most of the city, all of the Temple, and killed nearly a million. If you are a Preterist, there is nothing I can say that will change your mind. But then, I have no duty to do so. Believe as you like.
The events that are heating up right now will require actual mental gymnastics to ignore as prophecy in the coming months and few years. The world is committing a kind of suicide of traditional culture and is becoming a global entity that will eventually have ONE leader.

*SPOILER ALERT*When that day arrives, be prepared for horrors that will be unimaginable.

Jerusalem never had a million population.

I go with partial preterism based on the scripture, archaeology and history of Palestine. The people of the 7 churches in the first century understood all the symbolism.

Futurism seems absurdly political to me.

 

[surada]

Biblical proof of Jesus' messiahship is too long a study for this forum.

There's nothing in the Old Testament about Jesus unless we begin substitutions.