Zone1 Are any Christians here interested to know WHY Jews don’t believe Jesus was the Messiah?

[rosends]

The RAMCHAL clearly states that the goyim in the world to come are but an article of clothing, something that is inferior to the Jew, finding its purpose in the service of Jews.

He also states that the high tzadik can purge all of creation with his suffering. He sparks the process of redemption, at a cosmic level.

RaMChaL zt”l on Suffering of a Tzaddik, Atonement, and Perfection – 13 Petals

www.13petals.org

​

So you ignored exactly what Luzzatto wrote (which I quoted) and didn't answer anything I asked. Then you bring up an unrelated point which (iirc) I explained on another thread. Thanks for engaging in a meaningful way.

 

[surada]

Yes at certain times there were small numbers. Sometimes even those small groups were attacked. Life was not easy but Jews never left.

Amazon product ASIN B0007AJX9W

They were a tiny minority for 1800 years.

 

[rosends]

They were a tiny minority for 1800 years.

Yes, forced exiles and massacres will do that.

 

[surada]

Yes, forced exiles and massacres will do that.

Most left after the destruction of the temple, but Jews had already established communities in Aleppo, Baghdad, Damascus, Rome and Elephantine Island.

They were also in North Africa.

 

[BreezeWood]

The challenge for thinking religious people today, it seems to me, ought to be to try to interpret the “texts” and precepts of their religion in an enlightened and reasonable way.

"interpret" the "text" ... in a reasonable way.

- your sure that's why they were written, no deception intended. the three desert religions.


hard to misinterpret what is spoken - the golden rule - close to their favorite, what's heavenly at most a few words in total.

 

[BreezeWood]

The Pope is just the bishop of Rome. He can and will be replaced, so it is of little significance what his politics are

sure, memory lane ...

cheers and handclap for the good old days - if only today's could be the same ... hawks moment of self denial.

 

[TruthNotBS]

So you ignored exactly what Luzzatto wrote (which I quoted) and didn't answer anything I asked. Then you bring up an unrelated point which (iirc) I explained on another thread. Thanks for engaging in a meaningful way.

Anyone can just go to Amazon and purchase the English translation of Derech Hashem and read what he said about how the Gentiles draw their worth and purpose from serving Jews, if they're lucky enough to make it into your Jewish heaven.

All Jews, even Leon Trotsky the genocidal maniac, who killed millions of innocent Russian Christians as Commisar of the red army, and David Berkowitz a.k.a. "Son of Sam", the Jewish serial killer, including George Soros, the billionaire Jew who funds deadly coup d'é·tats throughout the world, spreading this crap.....

.....they all have a place, "a spot" (as Lisa likes to say it), in the "World To Come", but the goyim (gentiles), don't even rise from the dead. They're abandoned in the grave. My Roman Catholic, maternal grandmother who was a saint, born in 1916, spent her whole life, living for her husband and children, and grandchildren. She'll remain asleep in the grave (maggot food). She used to pray the rosary to the Virgin Mary, that's idolatry. Oops! Too bad. Goy. At least my father and paternal grandparents are going to make it to the "Jewish heaven", because they were born Jewish. They get the free pass through the Jewish pearly gates.

Lisa is complaining about the free Jesus pass to heaven. Well, at least that's easier than being born Jewish or converting to Judaism. At least the Christians have missionaries, that try to convert you. They actually want to convert people. Not the Jews, they're like "Oy, you're goy". Here in Manhattan, they walk up to me every once in a while "Are You Jewish?", I'm like "no sir, I'm...." before I even finish the sentence, the Jew makes a quick about-face and walks away. Doesn't even let me finish my sentence. That's the Jewish equivalent of a missionary. They just try to convert Jews to "Teshuvah"/repentance, not us stupid gentiles. These "Jewish missionaries" don't even tell me about the 7 Noachide laws.

You're "chosen" for what? What are you chosen for? To make great sandwiches? You make amazing sandwiches and chala bread. Funny comedians. Is that what it is?

 

[TruthNotBS]

Yes, forced exiles and massacres will do that.

And you did your own forced exiles and massacres. Some of the worst in history. We can start with the genocidal campaigns in the bible. You can't do religion right, or even atheism correctly. You're either a bad religionist, that creates a god in your own xenophobic, elitist image or you create atheists who are nihilistic and highly destructive, spreading multiculturalism, liberal "wokeness" throughout the world. Rainbow butt Skittles, feminism, abortion..etc. You people bring that crap to yourselves:

​

You know how screwed up it is, that there is now a native, in the middle of the Central American jungle saying "I don't like Jews". Even there, you'll find an "anti-semite". Freaking amazing. That's why your deity allows there to be a mosque on the temple mount. The Muslims are the new Jews, but they do it better. They welcome you with open arms into their community and want to convert you to Islam. They care. They don't walk up to you and ask you "Are you Muslim?" ..."No, I'm....", the Arab makes a quick about-face and briskly walks away. No, they don't do that. They say "AHHH! Come with me my brother, l invite you to my home, let's eat". In Israel, the first person I met. The Palestinian invited me to his home, a complete stranger. Fed me, became my friend. He's still my friend.

 

[TruthNotBS]

• 

Reactions:Tom Paine 1949

What about what I said is wrong in your opinion?

 

[rosends]

Anyone can just go to Amazon and purchase the English translation of Derech Hashem and read what he said about how the Gentiles draw their worth and purpose from serving Jews, if they're lucky enough to make it into your Jewish heaven.

All Jews, even Leon Trotsky the genocidal maniac, who killed millions of innocent Russian Christians as Commisar of the red army, and David Berkowitz a.k.a. "Son of Sam", the Jewish serial killer, including George Soros, the billionaire Jew who funds deadly coup d'é·tats throughout the world, spreading this crap.....

View attachment 799028

View attachment 799026


View attachment 799027

View attachment 799030

View attachment 799032​

.....they all have a place, "a spot" (as Lisa likes to say it), in the "World To Come", but the goyim (gentiles), don't even rise from the dead. They're abandoned in the grave. My Roman Catholic, maternal grandmother who was a saint, born in 1916, spent her whole life, living for her husband and children, and grandchildren. She'll remain asleep in the grave (maggot food). She used to pray the rosary to the Virgin Mary, that's idolatry. Oops! Too bad. Goy. At least my father and paternal grandparents are going to make it to the "Jewish heaven", because they were born Jewish. They get the free pass through the Jewish pearly gates.

Lisa is complaining about the free Jesus pass to heaven. Well, at least that's easier than being born Jewish or converting to Judaism. At least the Christians have missionaries, that try to convert you. They actually want to convert people. Not the Jews, they're like "Oy, you're goy". Here in Manhattan, they walk up to me every once in a while "Are You Jewish?", I'm like "no sir, I'm...." before I even finish the sentence, the Jew makes a quick about-face and walks away. Doesn't even let me finish my sentence. That's the Jewish equivalent of a missionary. They just try to convert Jews to "Teshuvah"/repentance, not us stupid gentiles. These "Jewish missionaries" don't even tell me about the 7 Noachide laws.

You're "chosen" for what? What are you chosen for? To make great sandwiches? You make amazing sandwiches and chala bread. Funny comedians. Is that what it is?

View attachment 799036​

you have a lot of anger aimed at everyone else but unfortunately, that doesn't convert into rational prose or a focused point. First, you can read the entire of Luzzatto's work online for free. Why include an amazon link?

Next you keep getting mired in that "unfair" whine because Judaism teaches that a certain measure of the world to come is accessible to Jews but not to you so you feel left out by not being rewarded by a theology you don't believe in. Then you just start spewing unrelated ideas about Jews who have slighted you (the Jews who ask if you are Jewish are not interested in converting you -- they are trying to identify unaffiliated Jews and help them increase their engagement -- if you would rather have a missionary force his religion down your throat then look elsewhere). You are angry, but more importantly, pathetic and sad.

 

[rosends]

And you did your own forced exiles and massacres. Some of the worst in history. We can start with the genocidal campaigns in the bible. You can't do religion right, or even atheism correctly. You're either a bad religionist, that creates a god in your own xenophobic, elitist image or you create atheists who are nihilistic and highly destructive, spreading multiculturalism, liberal "wokeness" throughout the world. Rainbow butt Skittles, feminism, abortion..etc. You people bring that crap to yourselves:

​

You know how screwed up it is, that there is now a native, in the middle of the Central American jungle saying "I don't like Jews". Even there, you'll find an "anti-semite". Freaking amazing. That's why your deity allows there to be a mosque on the temple mount. The Muslims are the new Jews, but they do it better. They welcome you with open arms into their community and want to convert you to Islam. They care. They don't walk up to you and ask you "Are you Muslim?" ..."No, I'm....", the Arab makes a quick about-face and briskly walks away. No, they don't do that. They say "AHHH! Come with me my brother, l invite you to my home, let's eat". In Israel, the first person I met. The Palestinian invited me to his home, a complete stranger. Fed me, became my friend. He's still my friend.

It's cute that you claim you have a friend. Super to you. I'm not saying that I doubt it, but, hey, I doubt it.

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Reactions:Tom Paine 1949

What I about what I said is wrong in your opinion?

Quite a lot … but I can’t go into it all now. Maybe tomorrow. Good night to you.

 

[TruthNotBS]

you have a lot of anger aimed at everyone else but unfortunately, that doesn't convert into rational prose or a focused point. First, you can read the entire of Luzzatto's work online for free. Why include an amazon link?

Next you keep getting mired in that "unfair" whine because Judaism teaches that a certain measure of the world to come is accessible to Jews but not to you so you feel left out by not being rewarded by a theology you don't believe in. Then you just start spewing unrelated ideas about Jews who have slighted you (the Jews who ask if you are Jewish are not interested in converting you -- they are trying to identify unaffiliated Jews and help them increase their engagement -- if you would rather have a missionary force his religion down your throat then look elsewhere). You are angry, but more importantly, pathetic and sad.

You can flippantly dismiss my criticism as the irrational rantings of an angry, pathetic, and sad goy, but that doesn't render anything I said wrong and that's exactly your problem. It's not a "certain measure" of the world to come, you're misrepresenting what most Orthodox Jews, especially the Ultra-Orthodox believe about who rises from the dead. They believe all Jewish souls will eventually have a part in the world to come, and very few gentiles, will rise from the dead. The gentiles are going to be the servants of Jews forever.

A Jewish Christian perspective:

Much better than what the "rabbinics" are offering.


You're not fooling this sabbath goy. I know too much. You can't lie to me, as you do the other goyim.
​

 

[TruthNotBS]

It's cute that you claim you have a friend. Super to you. I'm not saying that I doubt it, but, hey, I doubt it.

Enjoy your delusion.

 

[BreezeWood]

They believe all Jewish souls will eventually have a part in the world to come ... The gentiles are going to be the servants of Jews forever.

- the jewish coinage seems hopelessly embedded in the christian lexicon.

there is an awfulness in the middleast - the jews new better when they left and return only to pickup where they left off. israel.

 

[Woodznutz]

Your third paragraph is your personal religious or spiritual identity. I just don’t really get the “King of Israel” business … because I figure in my pedestrian way that Netanyahu is the closest thing Israel has to being “a King” … at least these days.

The King of Israel is Charles III.

 

[theHawk]

^^^ This is the problem with the idea that someone else “takes on” your sins for you, and then you get to Heaven. Obnoxious antisemites think that can slap around a Jew with insult after insult, and still get to Heaven because “Jesus saves.”

So how do Jews atone for their sins? Or are they all free of sin?

 

[theHawk]

Read the OT. Start with Isaiah.

Give the verse then.

 

[theHawk]

Everyone knows antisemitism refers to Jews

“Anti-Semitic“ is a silly term. Early Christians and of course Jesus himself were “Semitic”. So anyone who opposes Christ or Christians is anti-Semitic. I think I will start calling people who attack Jesus or Christians that from now on.

 

[theHawk]

A messiah was foretold in The Old Testament. The description was very detailed. He was to be a powerful politician and military warrior. Jesus does not qualify.

What verses say the messiah would be a politician and military warrior?