Applying todays societal norms to the past.....

[BuckToothMoron]

Why do people do this?

What is considered unacceptable behavior now in many cases was QUITE acceptable some time ago. So why do we vilify people from the past based on today's norms?

Good point, or should I say good half-point. The inverse of your statement is also true- many things that used to be considered unacceptable, are total acceptable today.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Why do people do this?

What is considered unacceptable behavior now in many cases was QUITE acceptable some time ago. So why do we vilify people from the past based on today's norms?

Give an example of what you are talking about.

Here are a couple. Referring to blacks as Negros, or Asians as Oriental. Or how about this one- it used to be acceptable to deny a male access to a female bathroom.

 

[Esmeralda]

Why do people do this?

What is considered unacceptable behavior now in many cases was QUITE acceptable some time ago. So why do we vilify people from the past based on today's norms?

Give an example of what you are talking about.

Robert E Lee, or anyone from that time. Obviously, most people now in the US would agree owning slaves or viewing people of other color as lesser is "wrong", MOST -- but back then, totally normal and a way of life. Doesn't make it OK, but, even the northern Yankees felt this way about blacks...

Because treason is treason. There is no historical evidence that we have treated those who have committed the worst crimes against mankind differently because it was in the past. Hitler is not revered because it was over 70 years ago. No one is ever going to erect statues to revere Ted Bundy or Charles Manson. No one is going to put up plaques to revere slave traders or the Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus. There are things that are universally wrong and treason against your country is one of them.

Would you REALLY equate Robt E Lee or Stonewall Jackson to these people?

Yes. 260,000 soldiers died because of the Civil War, and countless civilians died or suffered. As leader of the rebels they are responsible for that.

 

[SeaGal]

Because treason is treason. There is no historical evidence that we have treated those who have committed the worst crimes against mankind differently because it was in the past. Hitler is not revered because it was over 70 years ago. No one is ever going to erect statues to revere Ted Bundy or Charles Manson. No one is going to put up plaques to revere slave traders or the Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus. There are things that are universally wrong and treason against your country is one of them.

Interesting. No statues either in Spain or the conquered Americas of Cortes or Pizzaro? No public tributes, statues or monuments to Ferdinand and Isabella? No cathedrals from the 15th century left standing?...a church that though they may not have crucified Jesus - crucified much that he tried to teach us.

My hope would still be though, if those statues and monuments exist - they are not torn down in a misguided, or nefarious, attempt to erase history. Destroying works of art in the public square is very ISIS worthy.

There may be no statues of Hitler on US soil - but you can find Che and Lenin. One killed millions, the other no less a brutal murderer, just a smaller sphere of influence. They stand only because they are heroes of the Left - and the Left are the self-appointed censors of our time.

You are aware of the significance of presidential pardons. Yes? http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=72360

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

So, ever man that married a female under age 18 back then is a pedophile?

Of course not. Childhood and adolescence are determined by and subjective to the culture defining it.

 

[Esmeralda]

Because treason is treason. There is no historical evidence that we have treated those who have committed the worst crimes against mankind differently because it was in the past. Hitler is not revered because it was over 70 years ago. No one is ever going to erect statues to revere Ted Bundy or Charles Manson. No one is going to put up plaques to revere slave traders or the Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus. There are things that are universally wrong and treason against your country is one of them.

Interesting. No statues either in Spain or the conquered Americas of Cortes or Pizzaro? No public tributes, statues or monuments to Ferdinand and Isabella? No cathedrals from the 15th century left standing?...a church that though they may not have crucified Jesus - crucified much that he tried to teach us.

My hope would still be though, if those statues and monuments exist - they are not torn down in a misguided, or nefarious, attempt to erase history. Destroying works of art in the public square is very ISIS worthy.

There may be no statues of Hitler on US soil - but you can find Che and Lenin. One killed millions, the other no less a brutal murderer, just a smaller sphere of influence. They stand only because they are heroes of the Left - and the Left are the self-appointed censors of our time.

You are aware of the significance of presidential pardons. Yes? http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=72360

I don't think the Aztecs would put up a statue to revere Cortez. In Spain, there may be statues of such people, but they were put up hundreds of years ago and are historical. People don't revere today what those poeple did.

However, people in the American South want statues of Lee put up and Confederate flags to hang because they revere Lee and the Confederate side in the Civil War. That's a completely different thing than just leaving up things from history.

 

[alang1216]

Why do people do this?

What is considered unacceptable behavior now in many cases was QUITE acceptable some time ago. So why do we vilify people from the past based on today's norms?

Religious people consider morality to come from a deity and so it must be absolute. Absolutes can be applied to anyone at any time.

I think history shows that morality is relative to the culture you are in. Cannibalism is perfectly acceptable if your society says it is.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

I don't think the Aztecs would put up a statue to revere Cortez.

Unlikely in the extreme, since the Aztec civilization has been dead for centuries.

 

[Esmeralda]

I don't think the Aztecs would put up a statue to revere Cortez.

Unlikely in the extreme, since the Aztec civilization has been dead for centuries.

I know that; that's why I said it. Cortez is the one who destroyed them. It was irony. Too subtle for you?

 

[SeaGal]

I don't think the Aztecs would put up a statue to revere Cortez. In Spain, there may be statues of such people, but they were put up hundreds of years ago and are historical. People don't revere today what those poeple did..

What Aztecs?...Cortez and the conquerors from Spain destroyed most of them. There's a sea that bears his name...and at least one monument in Mexico City.

So there are statues of such people in Spain but it's ok because they are old? Are you trying to tell me that no one in Spain honors the men who cruelly conquered and enslaved people in the New World? That no one in the US honors Che and/or Lenin?

However, people in the American South want statues of Lee put up and Confederate flags to hang because they revere Lee and the Confederate side in the Civil War. That's a completely different thing than just leaving up things from history.

Lee's statue stood in New Orleans for 137 years - that's old in a country that's only been around since the late 1700's.

If you want to be on the side of folks who believe it's ok to destroy historical monuments because they offend - that's your choice. But unless you be mistaken for a hypocrite - tear them all down, for I assure you, they all have the ability to offend someone.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The same reason they vilify actions in the present based on actions from the past. For example - ''Hey, nobody said anything the last time we infringed, so surely it must be okay to try to infringe this time."

Pretty sure it's why that slender gentleman got away with fondling my pecker at the airport.

Anyhoo. Yeah. Darned if you do and darned if you don't.

I don't think it's EVER been "acceptable" or a "norm" for child molestation. People may have gotten away with it, but never societally acceptable

Ancient Greece and Rome engaged in pederasty, was it sexual is open to debate.

 

[Esmeralda]

I don't think the Aztecs would put up a statue to revere Cortez. In Spain, there may be statues of such people, but they were put up hundreds of years ago and are historical. People don't revere today what those poeple did..

What Aztecs?...Cortez and the conquerors from Spain destroyed most of them. There's a sea that bears his name...and at least one monument in Mexico City.

So there are statues of such people in Spain but it's ok because they are old? Are you trying to tell me that no one in Spain honors the men who cruelly conquered and enslaved people in the New World? That no one in the US honors Che and/or Lenin?

However, people in the American South want statues of Lee put up and Confederate flags to hang because they revere Lee and the Confederate side in the Civil War. That's a completely different thing than just leaving up things from history.

Lee's statue stood in New Orleans for 137 years - that's old in a country that's only been around since the late 1700's.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

I don't think the Aztecs would put up a statue to revere Cortez.

Unlikely in the extreme, since the Aztec civilization has been dead for centuries.

I know that; that's why I said it. Cortez is the one who destroyed them. It was irony. Too subtle for you?

No, but seeing as we as a rule deal with public school graduates in here, I wasn't sure you knew.

 

[Esmeralda]

I don't think the Aztecs would put up a statue to revere Cortez. In Spain, there may be statues of such people, but they were put up hundreds of years ago and are historical. People don't revere today what those poeple did..

What Aztecs?...Cortez and the conquerors from Spain destroyed most of them. There's a sea that bears his name...and at least one monument in Mexico City.

So there are statues of such people in Spain but it's ok because they are old? Are you trying to tell me that no one in Spain honors the men who cruelly conquered and enslaved people in the New World? That no one in the US honors Che and/or Lenin?

However, people in the American South want statues of Lee put up and Confederate flags to hang because they revere Lee and the Confederate side in the Civil War. That's a completely different thing than just leaving up things from history.

Lee's statue stood in New Orleans for 137 years - that's old in a country that's only been around since the late 1700's.

I already explained that my comment about the Aztecs was irony, meant to make a point. See post 29.


The difference between what you refer to in Spain and what the people in the South want is that people in the southern US are admiring people like Lee who fought against our country. It's not simple history. It's not the same thing. That's why they fly the Confederate flag.

And you know it; you're just being argumentative because you probably venerate the Confederacy and Lee too. It’s really tantamount to people in Germany and Austria admiring Hitler.

The historic figures you mention regarding Spain did not fight against their own country, did not commit treasonable offenses against Spain. Right now, the leader of Catalonia is trying to create a rebellion against Spain and has had to run to Belgium for sanctuary because of what he is doing. It's teasonous; he could go to prison. Lee committed treason against the US government,

.

 

[Esmeralda]

I don't think the Aztecs would put up a statue to revere Cortez.

Unlikely in the extreme, since the Aztec civilization has been dead for centuries.

I know that; that's why I said it. Cortez is the one who destroyed them. It was irony. Too subtle for you?

No, but seeing as we as a rule deal with public school graduates in here, I wasn't sure you knew.

Oh, please. You're the one who is slow: you didn't pick up on the sarcasm. LOL

 

[ChrisL]

Why do people do this?

What is considered unacceptable behavior now in many cases was QUITE acceptable some time ago. So why do we vilify people from the past based on today's norms?

Religious people consider morality to come from a deity and so it must be absolute. Absolutes can be applied to anyone at any time.

I think history shows that morality is relative to the culture you are in. Cannibalism is perfectly acceptable if your society says it is.

I would tend to disagree since people realize the wrongs of their cultures which is why cultures change. People tend to not see the "wrong" in something until it is done to them though.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

I don't think the Aztecs would put up a statue to revere Cortez.

Unlikely in the extreme, since the Aztec civilization has been dead for centuries.

I know that; that's why I said it. Cortez is the one who destroyed them. It was irony. Too subtle for you?

No, but seeing as we as a rule deal with public school graduates in here, I wasn't sure you knew.

Oh, please. You're the one who is slow: you didn't pick up on the sarcasm. LOL

You don't write sarcasm well, and I consider you people ignorant by default, unless evidence to the contrary is presented.

No offense.

 

[Esmeralda]

I don't think the Aztecs would put up a statue to revere Cortez.

Unlikely in the extreme, since the Aztec civilization has been dead for centuries.

I know that; that's why I said it. Cortez is the one who destroyed them. It was irony. Too subtle for you?

No, but seeing as we as a rule deal with public school graduates in here, I wasn't sure you knew.

Oh, please. You're the one who is slow: you didn't pick up on the sarcasm. LOL

You don't write sarcasm well, and I consider you people ignorant by default, unless evidence to the contrary is presented.

No offense.

You are pathetic.

I wrote, 'I don't think the Aztecs would put up a statue to Cortez." WOULD being the operative word. If they were still around, IF. Sarcasm is not supposed to be in your face; it is supposed to be indirect. You didn't get it: you are slow, obtuse, dull witted... Likemost conservatives on this forum.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Unlikely in the extreme, since the Aztec civilization has been dead for centuries.

I know that; that's why I said it. Cortez is the one who destroyed them. It was irony. Too subtle for you?

No, but seeing as we as a rule deal with public school graduates in here, I wasn't sure you knew.

Oh, please. You're the one who is slow: you didn't pick up on the sarcasm. LOL

You don't write sarcasm well, and I consider you people ignorant by default, unless evidence to the contrary is presented.

No offense.

You are pathetic.

Such is the human condition.

 

[Esmeralda]

I know that; that's why I said it. Cortez is the one who destroyed them. It was irony. Too subtle for you?

No, but seeing as we as a rule deal with public school graduates in here, I wasn't sure you knew.

Oh, please. You're the one who is slow: you didn't pick up on the sarcasm. LOL

You don't write sarcasm well, and I consider you people ignorant by default, unless evidence to the contrary is presented.

No offense.

You are pathetic.

Such is the human condition.

Such is your human condition.