Applying todays societal norms to the past.....

[Billy_Kinetta]

No, but seeing as we as a rule deal with public school graduates in here, I wasn't sure you knew.

Oh, please. You're the one who is slow: you didn't pick up on the sarcasm. LOL

You don't write sarcasm well, and I consider you people ignorant by default, unless evidence to the contrary is presented.

No offense.

You are pathetic.

Such is the human condition.

Such is your human condition.

And yours, along with willful ignorance.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Why do people do this?

What is considered unacceptable behavior now in many cases was QUITE acceptable some time ago. So why do we vilify people from the past based on today's norms?

Give an example of what you are talking about.

Robert E Lee, or anyone from that time. Obviously, most people now in the US would agree owning slaves or viewing people of other color as lesser is "wrong", MOST -- but back then, totally normal and a way of life. Doesn't make it OK, but, even the northern Yankees felt this way about blacks...

Because treason is treason. There is no historical evidence that we have treated those who have committed the worst crimes against mankind differently because it was in the past. Hitler is not revered because it was over 70 years ago. No one is ever going to erect statues to revere Ted Bundy or Charles Manson. No one is going to put up plaques to revere slave traders or the Roman soldiers who crucified Jesus. There are things that are universally wrong and treason against your country is one of them.

This clearly does not accept history. At the time the rebellion was judged NOT to be treason. Confederate military is buried with honors at military cemetaries. There was a blanket pardon for any crimes committed.

Now you want to go back and withdraw the decision that the rebellion was not treason and insert your own decision.

 

[SeaGal]

I already explained that my comment about the Aztecs was irony, meant to make a point. See post 29.

Sorry, the irony was obscured by the hypocrisy.

The difference between what you refer to in Spain and what the people in the South want is that people in the southern US are admiring people like Lee who fought against our country.

The 'people in the south' number 121 million people and counting...how many do you personally know? Do we now judge whole groups of people, (religion, race, region) by a few bad actors? Lee, as all those who fought with the Confederacy, received a presidential pardon. Do you understand the significance of that?

And you know it; you're just being argumentative because you probably venerate the Confederacy and Lee too. It’s really tantamount to people in Germany and Austria admiring Hitler.

You are the one attempting to justify the removal of historical works of art - the hallmark of a totalitarian society...attempting to erase history. Do you understand the significance of that? Lee's history of contributions to the country greatly outnumber 5 years of war.

The historic figures you mention regarding Spain did not fight against their own country, did not commit treasonable offenses against Spain.

They committed treasonous offenses against mankind.
The US committed treasonous offenses against England. Jesus committed 'treasonous' offenses against Rome. Che and Lenin were among the worst of the world despots...their statues stand.

You are the one who claimed we do not erect statues to honor murderous men - I pointed out that, yes, 'we' do. And if you want to take one down, you need to take them all.

Do you know who this is?...and where it is? Also an honorable man who committed treason against his country - but ended up on the right side of history.

 

[Esmeralda]

I already explained that my comment about the Aztecs was irony, meant to make a point. See post 29.

Sorry, the irony was obscured by the hypocrisy.

The difference between what you refer to in Spain and what the people in the South want is that people in the southern US are admiring people like Lee who fought against our country.

The 'people in the south' number 121 million people and counting...how many do you personally know? Do we now judge whole groups of people, (religion, race, region) by a few bad actors? Lee, as all those who fought with the Confederacy, received a presidential pardon. Do you understand the significance of that?

And you know it; you're just being argumentative because you probably venerate the Confederacy and Lee too. It’s really tantamount to people in Germany and Austria admiring Hitler.

You are the one attempting to justify the removal of historical works of art - the hallmark of a totalitarian society...attempting to erase history. Do you understand the significance of that? Lee's history of contributions to the country greatly outnumber 5 years of war.

The historic figures you mention regarding Spain did not fight against their own country, did not commit treasonable offenses against Spain.

They committed treasonous offenses against mankind.
The US committed treasonous offenses against England. Jesus committed 'treasonous' offenses against Rome. Che and Lenin were among the worst of the world despots...their statues stand.

You are the one who claimed we do not erect statues to honor murderous men - I pointed out that, yes, 'we' do. And if you want to take one down, you need to take them all.

Do you know who this is?...and where it is? Also an honorable man who committed treason against his country - but ended up on the right side of history.

It's not all of the 120 million people in the south who want the statue, only the white people. He represents racism as well as being a traitor. The rest of your argument is falacious. The events and people you compare to Lee are not analogous.

 

[alang1216]

Why do people do this?

What is considered unacceptable behavior now in many cases was QUITE acceptable some time ago. So why do we vilify people from the past based on today's norms?

Religious people consider morality to come from a deity and so it must be absolute. Absolutes can be applied to anyone at any time.

I think history shows that morality is relative to the culture you are in. Cannibalism is perfectly acceptable if your society says it is.

I would tend to disagree since people realize the wrongs of their cultures which is why cultures change. People tend to not see the "wrong" in something until it is done to them though.

No, their culture defines "wrong". We can only view the world through the filter of our values.

 

[Bonzi]

Apparently I have no clue where to put my threads. Will have to start asking mods in advance

 

[SeaGal]

I wrote, 'I don't think the Aztecs would put up a statue to Cortez." WOULD being the operative word. If they were still around, IF. Sarcasm is not supposed to be in your face; it is supposed to be indirect. You didn't get it: you are slow, obtuse, dull witted... Likemost conservatives on this forum.

It's not all of the 120 million people in the south who want the statue, only the white people. He represents racism as well as being a traitor. The rest of your argument is falacious. The events and people you compare to Lee are not analogous.

Aahhh - and the Truth will out. The Bigot and the Race Card - same song, different day.

btw - Thomas Paine was one of the fathers of the American Revolution - a traitor to his native England, would surely have hung if the Brits had won the war...a war which cost the lives of more than twenty thousand British soldiers. The statue stands in his birthplace of Thetford, UK.

 

[Esmeralda]

I wrote, 'I don't think the Aztecs would put up a statue to Cortez." WOULD being the operative word. If they were still around, IF. Sarcasm is not supposed to be in your face; it is supposed to be indirect. You didn't get it: you are slow, obtuse, dull witted... Likemost conservatives on this forum.

It's not all of the 120 million people in the south who want the statue, only the white people. He represents racism as well as being a traitor. The rest of your argument is falacious. The events and people you compare to Lee are not analogous.

Aahhh - and the Truth will out. The Bigot and the Race Card - same song, different day.

btw - Thomas Paine was one of the fathers of the American Revolution - a traitor to his native England, would surely have hung if the Brits had won the war...a war which cost the lives of more than twenty thousand British soldiers. The statue stands in his birthplace of Thetford, UK.

Yeah, the truth will out: it's about racism. Black people don't want that statue up, white racists do.

 

[SeaGal]

Yeah, the truth will out: it's about racism. Black people don't want that statue up, white racists do.

I agree it's about racism, and bigotry - but you've got the color wrong.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

Why do people do this?

What is considered unacceptable behavior now in many cases was QUITE acceptable some time ago. So why do we vilify people from the past based on today's norms?

To me, it all comes down to people's personal opinion of any situation. What makes things different now compared to how things were back in the day is the fact that social media was not around back then. Therefore, every pair of pennies weren't so as front and center as they can be and are these days.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

 

[danielpalos]

Why do people do this?

What is considered unacceptable behavior now in many cases was QUITE acceptable some time ago. So why do we vilify people from the past based on today's norms?

What if, our Founding Fathers have had recourse to extra thick condoms that may have ridges on them.

Would we have a different Constitution?

 

[ChrisL]

Why do people do this?

What is considered unacceptable behavior now in many cases was QUITE acceptable some time ago. So why do we vilify people from the past based on today's norms?

Religious people consider morality to come from a deity and so it must be absolute. Absolutes can be applied to anyone at any time.

I think history shows that morality is relative to the culture you are in. Cannibalism is perfectly acceptable if your society says it is.

I would tend to disagree since people realize the wrongs of their cultures which is why cultures change. People tend to not see the "wrong" in something until it is done to them though.

No, their culture defines "wrong". We can only view the world through the filter of our values.

No because cultures change. Slavery was once acceptable not that long ago, relatively speaking. It ended because people realized that it was wrong. Our "culture" has changed because we know more and are more educated and know right from wrong.