Apartheid In The Holy Land

[no1tovote4]

The Arab child incurs guilt by the fact that it is taught hate and murder from its mother's breast.

The child, althougth innocently, is sent to carry out harm by taking the lives of innocent civilians and therefore by definition these children are not innocent.

War is hell and inherently evil in which many are HARMED. As in all wars the innocent and guilty are harmed and killed until one side ultimately becomes the victor.

Utopia is where harm comes to no one. As far as I know there is no Shangrala in the world.

At some point in your life it comes down to the choices you make yourselves. To take on the purpose to kill thousands of innocents while taking your life is a choice regardless of how the "child" was taught. None of the men taking lives in the towers were children, all had lived here and knew that the US harbored no ill will toward them in particular. They had friends and lives here yet chose to kill unsuspecting people that were unarmed and uninformed. This is a terrible act of evil no matter how you may try to explain it.

To say that they only do what they were taught by their parents is a cop-out at best. At worst it is ignoring the fact that these people made choices that took them to that place, and with full knowledge killed as many innocents as possible in a horrific act of murderous violence.

To have me believe that they are programmed in some way by their parents is to ignore that while many were taught racism they work beyond that. Only weak minded souls prone to evil would attempt to use this as an excuse for the evil they promote.

 

[DaTroof]

"Where did the childs' parents learn to hate ?"

An old Islamic tradition. Have you ever read the Quoran ?! Try the Hadith as a desert. I think you'll get the picture. Funny that you should say such things as harming people is bad. The old testament tells me that "He who stands to kill you, stand up and kill him first". So I am quite calm about the IDF's soldiers getting into heaven. More immediately, I am quite confident that most Palestinians meen Israel irreperable harm so my actions in these areas don't make me lose sleep either. And it won't when the Palewstinians lob rockets over the wall and Israel takes out a city block. What you seem to have lost in all this is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Instead of "Our government is sucking up the money that's supposed to help me and is leading me no where", it's "Israel is the devil as is America". Not "my religion could stand to tone it down a bit as could it's representatives", it's "Allah hoo akbar and a million martyrs to Jerusalem". Just so you understand, you are an appeaser and do harm to my people ... see ya in hell.

 

[dilloduck]

"Where did the childs' parents learn to hate ?"

An old Islamic tradition. Have you ever read the Quoran ?! Try the Hadith as a desert. I think you'll get the picture. Funny that you should say such things as harming people is bad. The old testament tells me that "He who stands to kill you, stand up and kill him first". So I am quite calm about the IDF's soldiers getting into heaven. More immediately, I am quite confident that most Palestinians meen Israel irreperable harm so my actions in these areas don't make me lose sleep either. And it won't when the Palewstinians lob rockets over the wall and Israel takes out a city block. What you seem to have lost in all this is PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Instead of "Our government is sucking up the money that's supposed to help me and is leading me no where", it's "Israel is the devil as is America". Not "my religion could stand to tone it down a bit as could it's representatives", it's "Allah hoo akbar and a million martyrs to Jerusalem". Just so you understand, you are an appeaser and do harm to my people ... see ya in hell.

It's disturbing but enlightening to know that jews and muslims both feel so justified in killing each other. I'm a bit disturbed to know that American taxpayer money supports both.

 

[DaTroof]

How quaint that you live in a part of the world where you are not affected directly by Muslem violence. You are among the blessed. As for Israel, it's not as fortunate. I tell you that Muslems are killing kids in Russia and you tell me that killing is wrong. Don't ever blame the common denominator ... Islam. As Willie Nelson said "Daddy I sure hope you understand, sometimes you've gotta fight when you're a man." You are so far removed from it that you have a hard time understanding that in some parts of the world, violence is a reality and minimizing it is a real challenge. Maybe if Israel started a campfire and sang Kumbaya, the Palestinians would join in three part harmony. Let me know when reality has set in and you are done with cliches like "killing is wrong" and "blessed are the meek" and "turn the other cheek". Killing happens and some individuals need it, the meek won't be so meek once they inherit the earth, and I'm tired of giving my sworn enemy another cheek to slap.

More importantly, What is your solution ?! What is it that Israel isn't doing to achive peace this time ?!

 

[dilloduck]

How quaint that you live in a part of the world where you are not affected directly by Muslem violence. You are among the blessed. As for Israel, it's not as fortunate. I tell you that Muslems are killing kids in Russia and you tell me that killing is wrong. Don't ever blame the common denominator ... Islam. As Willie Nelson said "Daddy I sure hope you understand, sometimes you've gotta fight when you're a man." You are so far removed from it that you have a hard time understanding that in some parts of the world, violence is a reality and minimizing it is a real challenge. Maybe if Israel started a campfire and sang Kumbaya, the Palestinians would join in three part harmony. Let me know when reality has set in and you are done with cliches like "killing is wrong" and "blessed are the meek" and "turn the other cheek". Killing happens and some individuals need it, the meek won't be so meek once they inherit the earth, and I'm tired of giving my sworn enemy another cheek to slap.

More importantly, What is your solution ?! What is it that Israel isn't doing to achive peace this time ?!

People from my home town are being killed by muslim violence so you can lose the patronizing bullshit. Islam is not the problem--it's the people who believe in the violence it preaches. Some muslims choose to practice Islam peacefully.
I realize that you choose not to believe in New Testament philosophy but killing does not just "happen". It is a choice people make when they feel as if they have run out of options. The Massada rebels chose too take their own lives as a statement rather than continue to kill.
I'm not suggesting suicide is an answer yet when the jews and arabs choose to have "sworn enemies" it may as well be a suicide pact. Israel is choosing to have "sworn enemies" and blaming everything on arabs. This attitude prevents peace at this time.

 

[DaTroof]

I'm going to keep patronizing you. The peolple that are dying in your hometown are not dying because they are getting on a bus to go to work. They are soldiers and the like openly knowing the risk they are taking. I'm talking about buses blowing up in the middle of Austin. Please don't compare Texas and Israel. When was the last time that a family member of yours was stabbed in the back for his religion while walking down the street ?! Don't ask me the same question, because I actually have a date.

Islam is the problem !!! Islam has been the problem for a long long time. You are just too PC to appreciate that. You don't seem to want to believe this. You think that because there are a lot of nice muslims, that the religion is not at fault. Ever consider that these are nice people but bad Muslims. They are not orthodox and they are not following the teachings of Mohamed. Sura 9:73 "Pophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell sahll be their home: an evil fate." I can go on and on with these Quoranic quotes. I don't know what else you need to make you understand that unlike Judeo Christian morals, this religion is violent. It was established by a meglomaniacal caravan robber. It is especiall inflamatory towards the Jews so Israel is an easy target for devout Muslems. Once again, Israel and Texas are not equivilant. You yourself say "Islam is not the problem--it's the people who believe in the violence it preaches". So even you admit that Islam teaches violence and some Muslems are smart enough to ignore it. Good people ... bad Muslems.

"killing does not just "happen". It is a choice people make when they feel as if they have run out of options"
So what eople has no options and started WW1 and WW2 ?! Killing is a choice. You do not want to believe that evil exists. The greatest trick the Devil pulled on man is making him believe he doesn't exist. There are lots of evil people out there and many who would gladly kill.

"The Massada rebels chose too take their own lives as a statement rather than continue to kill."
Been there, climbed that. The martyrs of massada wheren't conducting a peaceful anti-war protest. They killed as many Romans as they could hold off, and then killed themselves rather than be tortured, raped, and taken into servitude. The lesson isn't peace rather than fighting, it's that a Jew will fight and die the way he chooses. "You don't own me" if you will. Ghandi would not have been proud of them, if that's what you are implying.

"Israel is choosing to have "sworn enemies" and blaming everything on arabs. This attitude prevents peace at this time."
Pardon emoui. Israel is "choosing" to have a sworn enemy ?! Are you for real. Did Israel attack 5 Arab armies the day after the British left ?! Is it Israel swearing to drive all Arabs into the sea ?! Do you really think Israel doesn't want peace ?! It gave back the Saini didn't it (the only oil Israel ever owned) ?! What do you think the Arabs would have done if they had won any of those wars ?! You have some nerve making this sound like Israel is the aggressor here. Israel blames the Arabs for blowing up stuff just like the US blames the Arabs for 9-11. The Arab nations and Islam do this to themselves by preaching it and commiting the actions. Stupid is as stupid does. But I forgot, it's not the Arabs, it's those pesky 6 million Jews. My bad.

It doesn't matter anyway. Soon the wall will be completed and seperation will be the law of the land .. like it should be. Some people just don't get along. Jews and Muslems are just an example. Since the palestinians are already trying to assasinate Abbas, I can only imagine the mayhem on the other side of the wall. I'm sure you'll find a way of blaming Israel for that too.

You have yet to answer the question Dilloduck ... What do YOU advocate ?! Israel packing up and leaving ?! One state two peoples ?! Seperation ?! You are good at griping about Israel and what they are not doing (which I'm actually still not clear on) and bad at concrete solutions. Please let me know so that at least we know what you are pushing for.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm going to keep patronizing you. The peolple that are dying in your hometown are not dying because they are getting on a bus to go to work. They are soldiers and the like openly knowing the risk they are taking. I'm talking about buses blowing up in the middle of Austin. Please don't compare Texas and Israel. When was the last time that a family member of yours was stabbed in the back for his religion while walking down the street ?! Don't ask me the same question, because I actually have a date.

Islam is the problem !!! Islam has been the problem for a long long time. You are just too PC to appreciate that. You don't seem to want to believe this. You think that because there are a lot of nice muslims, that the religion is not at fault. Ever consider that these are nice people but bad Muslims. They are not orthodox and they are not following the teachings of Mohamed. Sura 9:73 "Pophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell sahll be their home: an evil fate." I can go on and on with these Quoranic quotes. I don't know what else you need to make you understand that unlike Judeo Christian morals, this religion is violent. It was established by a meglomaniacal caravan robber. It is especiall inflamatory towards the Jews so Israel is an easy target for devout Muslems. Once again, Israel and Texas are not equivilant. You yourself say "Islam is not the problem--it's the people who believe in the violence it preaches". So even you admit that Islam teaches violence and some Muslems are smart enough to ignore it. Good people ... bad Muslems.

"killing does not just "happen". It is a choice people make when they feel as if they have run out of options"
So what eople has no options and started WW1 and WW2 ?! Killing is a choice. You do not want to believe that evil exists. The greatest trick the Devil pulled on man is making him believe he doesn't exist. There are lots of evil people out there and many who would gladly kill.

"The Massada rebels chose too take their own lives as a statement rather than continue to kill."
Been there, climbed that. The martyrs of massada wheren't conducting a peaceful anti-war protest. They killed as many Romans as they could hold off, and then killed themselves rather than be tortured, raped, and taken into servitude. The lesson isn't peace rather than fighting, it's that a Jew will fight and die the way he chooses. "You don't own me" if you will. Ghandi would not have been proud of them, if that's what you are implying.

"Israel is choosing to have "sworn enemies" and blaming everything on arabs. This attitude prevents peace at this time."
Pardon emoui. Israel is "choosing" to have a sworn enemy ?! Are you for real. Did Israel attack 5 Arab armies the day after the British left ?! Is it Israel swearing to drive all Arabs into the sea ?! Do you really think Israel doesn't want peace ?! It gave back the Saini didn't it (the only oil Israel ever owned) ?! What do you think the Arabs would have done if they had won any of those wars ?! You have some nerve making this sound like Israel is the aggressor here. Israel blames the Arabs for blowing up stuff just like the US blames the Arabs for 9-11. The Arab nations and Islam do this to themselves by preaching it and commiting the actions. Stupid is as stupid does. But I forgot, it's not the Arabs, it's those pesky 6 million Jews. My bad.

It doesn't matter anyway. Soon the wall will be completed and seperation will be the law of the land .. like it should be. Some people just don't get along. Jews and Muslems are just an example. Since the palestinians are already trying to assasinate Abbas, I can only imagine the mayhem on the other side of the wall. I'm sure you'll find a way of blaming Israel for that too.

You have yet to answer the question Dilloduck ... What do YOU advocate ?! Israel packing up and leaving ?! One state two peoples ?! Seperation ?! You are good at griping about Israel and what they are not doing (which I'm actually still not clear on) and bad at concrete solutions. Please let me know so that at least we know what you are pushing for.

What I am seeking is an outlook that may provide some answers for those who need one. Muslims feel justified in killing Jews. Jews feel justified in killing Muslims. That's a pretty hard hill to climb right there. Americans cannot change that hard cold fact yet we are expected by the whole world to step in and spend taxpayers money to solve it. Why should Americans even bother?

 

[DaTroof]

As a taxpayer, I agree. I do think that in as long as the US has supported Israel, we have not spent as much on it as we have on Iraq in any given year since the war began and israel doesn't set up ordinance to blow up our HumVs.

 

[ajwps]

Where did the childs' parents learn to hate ?

Islamic hate came from the Prophet Muhammad the Beneficient.

Muhammad wrote the Qur'an and by wars against neighbors spread the hate filled Qur'an which became ingrained into each generation.

 

[ajwps]

At some point in your life it comes down to the choices you make yourselves. To take on the purpose to kill thousands of innocents while taking your life is a choice regardless of how the "child" was taught. None of the men taking lives in the towers were children, all had lived here and knew that the US harbored no ill will toward them in particular. They had friends and lives here yet chose to kill unsuspecting people that were unarmed and uninformed. This is a terrible act of evil no matter how you may try to explain it.

To say that they only do what they were taught by their parents is a cop-out at best. At worst it is ignoring the fact that these people made choices that took them to that place, and with full knowledge killed as many innocents as possible in a horrific act of murderous violence.

To have me believe that they are programmed in some way by their parents is to ignore that while many were taught racism they work beyond that. Only weak minded souls prone to evil would attempt to use this as an excuse for the evil they promote.

No1tovote4 you make the common mistake of believing that everyone has a choice to make about his or her actions. Obviously your own choices, beliefs and definitive statements reflect what you were taught from your mother and father.

You seem to assume that 'these people' have the same moral and ethical background as yourself and therefore by some mysterious force have chosen to send their own children dressed with dynamite belts into the midst of their neighbors. Or to fly airplanes filled with innocents into buildings filled with people.

To understand reality is not weakminded and to understand war is just something that happens is not only simpleminded but ignorant.

There is a moral imperative that we in the west are taught from our own bibles. That to save lives from death it is allowed to take the lives of those who come to destroy you. For if you simply submit to adults or children who come to kill you and your family is a SIN....

Don't think that the whole world believes that nonsense you posted as fact.

 

[ajwps]

It's disturbing but enlightening to know that jews and muslims both feel so justified in killing each other. I'm a bit disturbed to know that American taxpayer money supports both.

You truly are very disturbed.

So it is just Jews and Muslims who feel justified in killing? What about every country and people in the world except for the Eskimos who find it justifiable to kill. Try the Americans and British who kill the Iraq and Afghans mujahadeen with American taxpayer money.

Or the Catholic and Protestant Irish who enjoy killing each other for religion.

You are brilliant alright.

 

[ajwps]

What I am seeking is an outlook that may provide some answers for those who need one. Muslims feel justified in killing Jews. Jews feel justified in killing Muslims. That's a pretty hard hill to climb right there. Americans cannot change that hard cold fact yet we are expected by the whole world to step in and spend taxpayers money to solve it. Why should Americans even bother?

Why should Israel bother being a partner with America. The whole world feels it their duty to step in and help the terrorists who also fight Americans in Iraq and those who flew passenger planes into the World Trade Towers.

By the way, America is not expected to do anything except that which is beneficial to America. Israel fights the same Islamic terrorists who want to kill YOU.

Why should Israel help YOU even with loan guarantees?

 

[dilloduck]

Why should Israel bother being a partner with America. The whole world feels it their duty to step in and help the terrorists who also fight Americans in Iraq and those who flew passenger planes into the World Trade Towers.

By the way, America is not expected to do anything except that which is beneficial to America. Israel fights the same Islamic terrorists who want to kill YOU.

Why should Israel help YOU even with loan guarantees?

Because Israels' existance is totally dependent on American support.

LOL by all means feel free to keep all the foreign aid you've been sending us. I'm sure you need it to feed your poor.

 

[ajwps]

Because Israels' existance is totally dependent on American support.

Let's take a closer look at this remarkable statement of yours. So Israel has depended on American armed forces to protect them from the Arabs within their borders and from the surrounding Arab armies. Israel creates its own merkavah advanced tanks, makes its own jet and war hellicopters, modifies American weapons systems to make them the best in the world and develops scientific technology, medical and war equipment purchased and used by the United States. Israel gets 3 billion dollars a year in loan guarantees which they pay out of very high taxes on the Israeli people.

Yep, Israel is totally dependent on the US for its survival. Even before the United States was established in 1776, Israel relied TOTALLY on American support.

LOL by all means feel free to keep all the foreign aid you've been sending us. I'm sure you need it to feed your poor.

Israel would survive even if the United States disappeared from the face of the earth from the loving relationship with Islamic terrorists both within and without the borders of Israel.

If it were up to me, Israel would support America's war against terrorism for without Israel, I doubt the United States would long survive.

 

[DaTroof]

"Because Israels' existance is totally dependent on American support."

Israel isn't totally dependent on US foreign aid. It is a 1st world country as far as I know. Before this latest Intifada it had a vibrant tecnology sector and always has an active tourism industry. Let's not forget the basketball sized orages which brought all those Arabs into the neighborhood to begin with. So yes US ... thanks you for everything. Understand that me saying thank you is more than most countries that we help bother to do. And in return, the US does exert some influenceon Israel. Look at the fierst Dessert Storm. Israel didn't get involved even when the scuds where falling. Made the US' job a lot easier. Also keep in mind that the Palestinians get tons of foreign aid as well. The UN runs the refugee camps after 50 years which they do nowhere else. It's not Israel's fault that Arafat was skimming it all.

 

[dilloduck]

"Because Israels' existance is totally dependent on American support."

Israel isn't totally dependent on US foreign aid. It is a 1st world country as far as I know. Before this latest Intifada it had a vibrant tecnology sector and always has an active tourism industry. Let's not forget the basketball sized orages which brought all those Arabs into the neighborhood to begin with. So yes US ... thanks you for everything. Understand that me saying thank you is more than most countries that we help bother to do. And in return, the US does exert some influenceon Israel. Look at the fierst Dessert Storm. Israel didn't get involved even when the scuds where falling. Made the US' job a lot easier. Also keep in mind that the Palestinians get tons of foreign aid as well. The UN runs the refugee camps after 50 years which they do nowhere else. It's not Israel's fault that Arafat was skimming it all.

I would think Israel would love to be out from under US influence but I guess it's part of the deal. My post made no reference to the Palestinians, Arafat or the UN. Why do we have to always talk about them?

 

[dilloduck]

Islamic hate came from the Prophet Muhammad the Beneficient.

Muhammad wrote the Qur'an and by wars against neighbors spread the hate filled Qur'an which became ingrained into each generation.

let me guess--Jews are raised to love, trust and respect Arabs?

 

[dilloduck]

Let's take a closer look at this remarkable statement of yours. So Israel has depended on American armed forces to protect them from the Arabs within their borders and from the surrounding Arab armies. Israel creates its own merkavah advanced tanks, makes its own jet and war hellicopters, modifies American weapons systems to make them the best in the world and develops scientific technology, medical and war equipment purchased and used by the United States. Israel gets 3 billion dollars a year in loan guarantees which they pay out of very high taxes on the Israeli people.

Yep, Israel is totally dependent on the US for its survival. Even before the United States was established in 1776, Israel relied TOTALLY on American support.



Israel would survive even if the United States disappeared from the face of the earth from the loving relationship with Islamic terrorists both within and without the borders of Israel.

If it were up to me, Israel would support America's war against terrorism for without Israel, I doubt the United States would long survive.

Financially and politically dependent AJ. You know full well that the loans are forgiven. I think it would be to Israeli and American interest to operate as independent nations instead of acting on a pretense that fools no one except American citizens.

 

[ajwps]

let me guess--Jews are raised to love, trust and respect Arabs?

Actually Jews are brought up with the command to love and respect all of mankind. The Arabs in Israel, before the Intifada of Arafat; worked with, enjoyed the freedoms of, voted in Israel elections, went to the same Israeli universities and in general were treated the same as any other stranger in the land of Israel.

All that love, trust and respect was dashed by the corrupt Arab leaders who taught those same Arabs that the Jews should neither live on Arab land nor had a right to live on earth at all.

Never mind that the land of Israel had been built by the Jews into a garden of milk and honey among the driven sand dunes of the surrounding Arab countries. Lebanon alone has no deserts but the PLO brought civil war and destruction to this land opening the entry of the Syrians.

Trust, love and respect to the Jewish people are for those who demonstrate those same qualities to them.

 

[ajwps]

Financially and politically dependent AJ. You know full well that the loans are forgiven. I think it would be to Israeli and American interest to operate as independent nations instead of acting on a pretense that fools no one except American citizens.

No, you seem to know something that no one else knows about loan guarantees to Israel. If you have proof that Israel has not been repaying these loans or renegotiated for extended repayments to those lending institutions, please provide something more than your opinion.

It seems that you are the one fooled as the American people again voted George Bush back into office with the full knowledge and understanding that this president has and will support the State of Israel.

The majority of Americans also know that without Israel, America would be just another of those countries who support those who would destroy the citizens of those terrorized countries without even a thought as to the consequences.

You can believe whatever you want, but your opinion fools no one.