Apartheid In The Holy Land

[wolvie20m]

I think the arab terrorists there like the fighting and death. It's unproven but after periods of peace and when their allowed to leave their homes and such, they bomb and attack again. They kill innocent children who aren't even fighting anything. Now not that I advocate killing of innocent children but some children are brought up to take arms. When the arab comunity stops training terrorists from the cradle perhaps they death of children would fall also.

 

[dilloduck]

If those Arab babies have dynamite belts attached to their wastes by their own parents. They have been made combatants.

Exactly how many of children like this has Israel found? You don't recognize propaganda when you see it?

 

[NATO AIR]

I advocate Isreal defending itself by any means they deem neccessary. I advocate the United States doing likewise.

answer the question, if sharon decides all palestinian children must die for israel's security, do you advocate what he's doing for israel's defense?

 

[wolvie20m]

Nato I don't think anyone would, that would take a whole nother stage, more into genocide.

 

[dmp]

answer the question, if sharon decides all palestinian children must die for israel's security, do you advocate what he's doing for israel's defense?

Translation: I accused you of supporting blatant murder of children. I can't back up that accusation, so I'll try to bait you into something I can use against you.


I'll not play your game.

 

[NATO AIR]

...sometimes. 'Kill a terrorist as a kid, before he grows up to kill you' is a valid plan sometimes...and biblical on one account.

Don't give me credit - the concept originates from the Babylonians - at one time the most feared nation on the planet. There were teachers in the Old Testament suggesting "Blessed is he who strikes their babies against the stones' - showing how it's better to kill a babylonian while he's small, else that baby will grow up to kill YOU. It makes sense

I advocate Isreal defending itself by any means they deem neccessary. I advocate the United States doing likewise.

mighty close, your own words near sink you

 

[ajwps]

Exactly how many of children like this has Israel found? You don't recognize propaganda when you see it?

Israel has suffered from a people that throws their own flesh and blood into the fire (suicide) bombers against the Jewish people in their own land. Just this week a 16 year old boy blew himself up killing 3 people. His parents screamed at their brother Arabs that children who cannot understand what they are doing should not be sent to die but that older Muslims should do what they are brave enough to do with their kids.

There are many small children trained from birth to become Shahid martrys for Allah. Take a look....

http://muslims.homestead.com/muslimchildrenmartyrs.html

 

[ajwps]

answer the question, if sharon decides all palestinian children must die for israel's security, do you advocate what he's doing for israel's defense?

The answer to your question is obvious. In a war waged using one's children to die instead of becoming brave parent martyrs, then one must understand that a child carrying a suicide belt or a rifle can kill innocents just as dead.

War necessitates the unfortunate death of all those who come to kill you and your family.

It is not like America that destroyed whole cities of men, women and children in a war waged against this country. Israel kills Islamic murderers who shoot their own children and take pictures in order to place blame on Sharon and the Israeli soldiers.

A question for you NatoAir. If a seven year old child came to your house with dynamite strapped to his waste and a button in his hand, would you give the child trick-or-treat candy while your own family was blown to smithereens?

 

[NATO AIR]

The answer to your question is obvious. In a war waged using one's children to die instead of becoming brave parent martyrs, then one must understand that a child carrying a suicide belt or a rifle can kill innocents just as dead.

War necessitates the unfortunate death of all those who come to kill you and your family.

It is not like America that destroyed whole cities of men, women and children in a war waged against this country. Israel kills Islamic murderers who shoot their own children and take pictures in order to place blame on Sharon and the Israeli soldiers.

A question for you NatoAir. If a seven year old child came to your house with dynamite strapped to his waste and a button in his hand, would you give the child trick-or-treat candy while your own family was blown to smithereens?

First of all, the overwhelming vast majority of Palestinian children are not ready to kill martyrs in the waiting with explosives wrapped around their waist. a few sick perverted parents did that to their children, about as bad as the settlers who teach their children to shoot at palestinians and beat them up.

in answer to your question, i would have to kill the child, but i would spend the rest of my life begging god for forgiveness for having to kill such a young, formerly innocent creation of his. i would also track down the sick parents that trained their kid to do that and deal out my own justice with them.

 

[NATO AIR]

I'll not play your game.

-=d=-, i have a lot of respect for you and enjoy debating and posting alongside you. that said, you shocked me with the statements made in this thread. if you feel that strongly about israel, good for you but i don't.

i love israel (my godmother was israeli) but i also expect israel to be a leader among nations, especially when it comes to respect for life and justice. one day, that israel will take its place among the world's nation. right now they're locked in both an internal and external struggle for security and peace. horrible, awful things happen and will continue to, on both sides.
this does make excuseable for either side the casual disregard they both too often too show towards children, who have nothing to do with the conflict save for the future they are supposed to have that is endangered by this conflict.

i'll calm down and shut up for now about this now.

 

[ajwps]

First of all, the overwhelming vast majority of Palestinian children are not ready to kill martyrs in the waiting with explosives wrapped around their waist. a few sick perverted parents did that to their children, about as bad as the settlers who teach their children to shoot at palestinians and beat them up.

So you know things about the majority of Arab children in Israel. You must either have insider information or you are an Arab yourself.

in answer to your question, i would have to kill the child, but i would spend the rest of my life begging god for forgiveness for having to kill such a young, formerly innocent creation of his. i would also track down the sick parents that trained their kid to do that and deal out my own justice with them.

So you are ready to take justice in your own hands instead of taking those parents to criminal court? Do you think that the American soldiers in Afghanastan and Iraq are asking G-d to forgive them for having to destroy young lives that attempt to take their own?

In Germany during WW2, the end of the war in Germany brought forth the boys of the German Youth Guard who fought and killed American soldiers with the same weapons used by the regular German army.

War is hell and destroying killer children is your hangup.

 

[DaTroof]

"People are scared in this country [the US]; to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful - very powerful. Well, so what? For goodness sake, this is God's world! We live in a moral universe. The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust."

Lets get something straight. Tutu may be a nice guy and all, but I don't really trust his opinion regarding the Palestinian Israeli issue. First off he is from Africa which, as a continent, is certainly more closely associated with the Arab cause and Islam. Secondly, look at this great South Africa now after apartheid. I certainly wouldn't travel that country un-armed. It's a bloody catastrophy. It is actually a poster country for harsh Western rule. At least then you have rules. I'm not advocating that, I'm just saying that Tutu should mind to his own issues before taking a stab at mine. Especially since his views seem insanely one sided. Like I said .. real nice guy and all.

This whole crap about the Jewish lobby is interesting too. It smacks of "Jews control the media" mentality. The news portrays Islam in a certain way because Islam acts a certain way. It's not like the media has to try very hard. All the hijackers where Arab muslims, all the killers of the school kids in Southern Russia where Muslims etc etc etc. But you make it sound like Jews are pulling the string behind the scenes. Let me put this to you logically ...

What do you think pulls more weight with the US logically, 6 million Jews in Isarel and about that many in the US, or over a hundred million Arabs (who have there own little lobby called OPEC) and 1.4 billion Muslems ?!? This is Tutu simply not knowing his elbow from his ass. As I mentioned, Africa is a notoriously Arab biased continent, and I'm certain that the good reverend surely does not live in a vacuum.

"The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists"
Israel is not an apartheid government. It's a seperationist government. Israel and Arab countries (Jews & Muslems in that region) mix like oil and dynamite. They just don't. It's the constant front line of the clash of Arab-Islamic and Judeo/Christian-Western philosophy. Individual value Vs the Borg if you will. Since people w/ a 60% unemployment rate and a government that acts like Tony Montana don't have not much lose, I will seperate myself from them while they take care of their internal issues. Or is it that the Reverend knows that if left alone the PA would become just another corupt authotarian Islamic regime feeding on it's own people's misserable ignorance ?!

"Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust."
Excuse me .. Did Reverend Tutu just comare Israel to these people, the greatet tyrants of our modern era ?! Is he serious ?! I can't believe that the Church sanctions this guy. Israel is alive and well after 50 years because it does not inculcate the mass horde of Arabs into the land. We've read about the Trojan horse thank you. Arafat has said that the key to getting rid of Israel is "the Arab womb". There will never be a "1 state 2 people" solution as Tutu is advocating because that's Just what the Muslims want. Like every democratic country they will simply outbreed the native population often doing so with public assistance. Ask the Dutch how that is. They are getting fed up with the crap already. Germany and France will be there soon as well. Just out and out cultural clashes.

I am glad that you bring this up because I am going to quote the good reverend in a Christian group I correspond with. Curious about what Christians around the world thing of Tutu comparing Israeli Jews with Hitler. How insanely narrowsighted he must be to say these things as a representative of the Church. Doesn't he know that the Mufti of Jerusalem, the Palestinian Arafat (actually distantly related to each other) of pre 48 Israel, was close with Hitler ? They have tons of pictures together. How irresponsible is that. Shame on him !!!

 

[DaTroof]

NATO wrote "First of all, the overwhelming vast majority of Palestinian children are not ready to kill martyrs in the waiting with explosives wrapped around their waist. a few sick perverted parents did that to their children, about as bad as the settlers who teach their children to shoot at palestinians and beat them up.

in answer to your question, i would have to kill the child, but i would spend the rest of my life begging god for forgiveness for having to kill such a young, formerly innocent creation of his. i would also track down the sick parents that trained their kid to do that and deal out my own justice with them."

I disagree vehemently. These Palestinian youth may not be ready to kill themselves yet, but they will by the time they become adult males with a desire to have a family facing a 60% unemployment rate. How old are the kids already throwing stones at Israeli troops ?! Are you telling me throwing stones as political rebelion that at the age of 11 or so is normal and not an obvious precursor to a life of terrorist activity ?! Many of my arguments come down to the fact that the Palestinian have a lot of internal issues that Israel is neither responsible for nor should they be made to suffer for them. The Palestinian leadership has made insanely irresponsible decisions in their names and yet Israel is to blame.

"i would have to kill the child, but i would spend the rest of my life begging god for forgiveness for having to kill such a young"

Do you meen the kind of begging that the people of Japan have done to the people of Nanking ?! People in glass houses should not throw stones. That goes for the US regarding the Native Americans and the former European colonial powers, China, etc etc. Israel has nothing on Japan when it comes to human rights violations, so you keep on praying and I'll keep on surviving.

 

[dilloduck]

NATO wrote "First of all, the overwhelming vast majority of Palestinian children are not ready to kill martyrs in the waiting with explosives wrapped around their waist. a few sick perverted parents did that to their children, about as bad as the settlers who teach their children to shoot at palestinians and beat them up.

in answer to your question, i would have to kill the child, but i would spend the rest of my life begging god for forgiveness for having to kill such a young, formerly innocent creation of his. i would also track down the sick parents that trained their kid to do that and deal out my own justice with them."

I disagree vehemently. These Palestinian youth may not be ready to kill themselves yet, but they will by the time they become adult males with a desire to have a family facing a 60% unemployment rate. How old are the kids already throwing stones at Israeli troops ?! Are you telling me throwing stones as political rebelion that at the age of 11 or so is normal and not an obvious precursor to a life of terrorist activity ?! Many of my arguments come down to the fact that the Palestinian have a lot of internal issues that Israel is neither responsible for nor should they be made to suffer for them. The Palestinian leadership has made insanely irresponsible decisions in their names and yet Israel is to blame.

"i would have to kill the child, but i would spend the rest of my life begging god for forgiveness for having to kill such a young"

Do you meen the kind of begging that the people of Japan have done to the people of Nanking ?! People in glass houses should not throw stones. That goes for the US regarding the Native Americans and the former European colonial powers, China, etc etc. Israel has nothing on Japan when it comes to human rights violations, so you keep on praying and I'll keep on surviving.

Leave out the names of the countries----people are evil to harm other people and those who do will suffer the consequences. Justification makes little difference in the long run.

 

[ajwps]

Leave out the names of the countries----people are evil to harm other people and those who do will suffer the consequences. Justification makes little difference in the long run.

So all people who harm other people are evil and will suffer the consequences and justifcation makes little difference?

So Truman harmed the people of Nagasaki and Hiroshima and therefore is evil. The American soldiers harm the insurgent people of Afghanastan and Iraq, ergo the Americans are evil and the Israeli IDF harms the nice people who send children to blow up and kill civilians. So the IDF must necessarily be evil.

Define the word HARM!!!!

 

[dilloduck]

So all people who harm other people are evil and will suffer the consequences and justifcation makes little difference?

So Truman harmed the people of Nagasaki and Hiroshima and therefore is evil. The American soldiers harm the insurgent people of Afghanastan and Iraq, ergo the Americans are evil and the Israeli IDF harms the nice people who send children to blow up and kill civilians. So the IDF must necessarily be evil.

Define the word HARM!!!!

Cmon--you know what it means to harm a person ! It's simply a wrong thing to do!

 

[ajwps]

Cmon--you know what it means to harm a person ! It's simply a wrong thing to do!

Yes I do know what you mean.

If you harm an INNOCENT human being for no reason then that is truly a wrong thing to do.

Taken to its extreme:

The India Jain's religion believe ALL life is sacred and believe in harming nothing. They wear masks over their faces so that a gnat does not get into their noses or mouth and dies. They gently sweep the path in front of them so that they do not accidentally step on any small bug or life form. They do not eat flesh but subsist on vegitation.

http://www.pilgrimage-india.com/indian-religion/jain-religion.html

The ultimate Jain discipline, therefore, rests on complete inactivity and absolute nonviolence (ahimsa) against any living beings. Some Jain monks and nuns wear face masks to avoid accidentally inhaling small organisms, and all practicing believers try to remain vegetarians. Extreme renunciation, including the refusal of all food, lies at the heart of a discipline that purges the mind and body of all desires and actions and, in the process, burns off the consequences of actions performed in the past. In this sense, Jain renunciants may recognize or revere deities, but they do not view the Vedas as sacred texts and instead concentrate on the atheistic, individual quest for purification and removal of karma. The final goal is the extinguishing of self, a "blowing out" (nirvana) of the individual self.

 

[dilloduck]

Yes I do know what you mean.

If you harm an INNOCENT human being for no reason then that is truly a wrong thing to do.

Taken to its extreme:

The India Jain's religion believe ALL life is sacred and believe in harming nothing. They wear masks over their faces so that a gnat does not get into their noses or mouth and dies. They gently sweep the path in front of them so that they do not accidentally step on any small bug or life form. They do not eat flesh but subsist on vegitation.

http://www.pilgrimage-india.com/indian-religion/jain-religion.html

So how is it that an arab baby incurs guilt?

 

[ajwps]

So how is it that an arab baby incurs guilt?

The Arab child incurs guilt by the fact that it is taught hate and murder from its mother's breast.

The child, althougth innocently, is sent to carry out harm by taking the lives of innocent civilians and therefore by definition these children are not innocent.

War is hell and inherently evil in which many are HARMED. As in all wars the innocent and guilty are harmed and killed until one side ultimately becomes the victor.

Utopia is where harm comes to no one. As far as I know there is no Shangrala in the world.

 

[dilloduck]

The Arab child incurs guilt by the fact that it is taught hate and murder from its mother's breast.

The child, althougth innocently, is sent to carry out harm by taking the lives of innocent civilians and therefore by definition these children are not innocent.

War is hell and inherently evil in which many are HARMED. As in all wars the innocent and guilty are harmed and killed until one side ultimately becomes the victor.

Utopia is where harm comes to no one. As far as I know there is no Shangrala in the world.

Where did the childs' parents learn to hate ?