" Any N. American game animal, <2 shots, .22 Hornet".

[westwall]

"I bet my farm that I can do this, under conditions of fair chase and I bet another $50,000 (in today's money) that i can do it, too". This is paraphrased from Jim Carmichael's Complete Book of the Rifle, due to size of the subject box. Jim was shooting editor for Outdoor Life for decades, held many Boone and Crockett and Safari Club records for game in Africa and N America, and several records in rifle matches (both benchrest and bullseye) 22 hornets are bolt actions, or Single shots, so he was NOT talking about fast repeat hits. The M4 has 50% more power than the Hornet, too. Care to claim that you know more about this than Jim did? Wanna bet a million $ farm that I can't do the same with an M4?

Fact is, if you are desperate for meat, you FIND a way to make your tools suffice. Wanna bet that an elk goes more than 200 yds after taking 2-3 223 ball rds to the chest? In many states that have elk, you'll see him fall if that's as far as he runs. With 3 hits to the chest, the odds are very high that either both lungs are hit, or that a lung AND heart, liver, spleen or kidneys have been hit. if that's the case, he's going to be seriously weakened in 5-6 seconds, and unable to walk/run in twice that long. top speed of an elk is 50 fps, so 200 yds is all that he's going to have before he runs out of gas. The M4 offers the TRACER ammo option, you know. while firing 5-6 rds at a fleeing animal is mostly going to = gut hits, those sort of hits hurt, bleed, and weaken the critter, too. Nothing much about survival poaching has anything to do with sportsmanship, folks.

If you have to use more than ONE round to bring down an animal you're a fucking moron. There are exceptional situations where two might be necessary (I once witnessed a wild boar shot through the heart and it took off running for over a mile before it bled out.... When we dressed it out there was just a tiny bit of the heart left in the poor thing, it ran all that distance on adrenaline and terror) which is why I always head shoot my game. No muss, no fuss. No suffering on the part of the critter.

 

[prison/con.net]

45-70's, 12 ga slugs, even 458's have failed to stop charging animals with chest hits. it's gotta be a brain hit, regardless, or you are counting upon LUCK. more people die every year of insect stings and bites than of (unprovoked) bear attacks. That is a FACT. google for it. you don't bother to prep for the bugs, why bother with the bears? I hang the food, on purpose, right where critters can get at it, so that I can shoot them from my hammock, with my ccw pistol.

 

[westwall]

45-70's, 12 ga slugs, even 458's have failed to stop charging animals with chest hits. it's gotta be a brain hit, regardless, or you are counting upon LUCK. more people die every year of insect stings and bites than of (unprovoked) bear attacks. That is a FACT. google for it. you don't bother to prep for the bugs, why bother with the bears? I hang the food, on purpose, right where critters can get at it, so that I can shoot them from my hammock, with my ccw pistol.

Sure you do. You're so full of shit I'm surprised you can walk.

 

[sealybobo]

"I bet my farm that I can do this, under conditions of fair chase and I bet another $50,000 (in today's money) that i can do it, too". This is paraphrased from Jim Carmichael's Complete Book of the Rifle, due to size of the subject box. Jim was shooting editor for Outdoor Life for decades, held many Boone and Crockett and Safari Club records for game in Africa and N America, and several records in rifle matches (both benchrest and bullseye) 22 hornets are bolt actions, or Single shots, so he was NOT talking about fast repeat hits. The M4 has 50% more power than the Hornet, too. Care to claim that you know more about this than Jim did? Wanna bet a million $ farm that I can't do the same with an M4?

Fact is, if you are desperate for meat, you FIND a way to make your tools suffice. Wanna bet that an elk goes more than 200 yds after taking 2-3 223 ball rds to the chest? In many states that have elk, you'll see him fall if that's as far as he runs. With 3 hits to the chest, the odds are very high that either both lungs are hit, or that a lung AND heart, liver, spleen or kidneys have been hit. if that's the case, he's going to be seriously weakened in 5-6 seconds, and unable to walk/run in twice that long. top speed of an elk is 50 fps, so 200 yds is all that he's going to have before he runs out of gas. The M4 offers the TRACER ammo option, you know. while firing 5-6 rds at a fleeing animal is mostly going to = gut hits, those sort of hits hurt, bleed, and weaken the critter, too. Nothing much about survival poaching has anything to do with sportsmanship, folks.

If you have to use more than ONE round to bring down an animal you're a fucking moron. There are exceptional situations where two might be necessary (I once witnessed a wild boar shot through the heart and it took off running for over a mile before it bled out.... When we dressed it out there was just a tiny bit of the heart left in the poor thing, it ran all that distance on adrenaline and terror) which is why I always head shoot my game. No muss, no fuss. No suffering on the part of the critter.

I've shot two deer in the head I agree cuz I saved a lot of meat

 

[prison/con.net]

so who said that you SHOULD survive when you're that stupid, hmm? sell the pos's and get a real gun. Even a pocket 9 can handle the job, if you're tough minded and highly skilled. You just wait until he's inside 20 ft or and get some brain hits, that's all. You'll just wound him at greater distances and really tick him off. A skilled man can get a brain hit every .20 second at such distances. Just cause he closes with you does not mean that you're dead, either. Many have survived bear maulings. Just get the muzzle up to his temple or under his chin and get the job done, that's all. Not everyone is a twit, you know.

 

[prison/con.net]

why not? Not everyone is scared of their shadow, like you. tt's almost always just a coon or a dog that's trying to get the food, anyway. I like proving how effective the ccw ammo is, every now and then.

 

[sealybobo]

"I bet my farm that I can do this, under conditions of fair chase and I bet another $50,000 (in today's money) that i can do it, too". This is paraphrased from Jim Carmichael's Complete Book of the Rifle, due to size of the subject box. Jim was shooting editor for Outdoor Life for decades, held many Boone and Crockett and Safari Club records for game in Africa and N America, and several records in rifle matches (both benchrest and bullseye) 22 hornets are bolt actions, or Single shots, so he was NOT talking about fast repeat hits. The M4 has 50% more power than the Hornet, too. Care to claim that you know more about this than Jim did? Wanna bet a million $ farm that I can't do the same with an M4?

Fact is, if you are desperate for meat, you FIND a way to make your tools suffice. Wanna bet that an elk goes more than 200 yds after taking 2-3 223 ball rds to the chest? In many states that have elk, you'll see him fall if that's as far as he runs. With 3 hits to the chest, the odds are very high that either both lungs are hit, or that a lung AND heart, liver, spleen or kidneys have been hit. if that's the case, he's going to be seriously weakened in 5-6 seconds, and unable to walk/run in twice that long. top speed of an elk is 50 fps, so 200 yds is all that he's going to have before he runs out of gas. The M4 offers the TRACER ammo option, you know. while firing 5-6 rds at a fleeing animal is mostly going to = gut hits, those sort of hits hurt, bleed, and weaken the critter, too. Nothing much about survival poaching has anything to do with sportsmanship, folks.

I have a question. I go out to property where there are bears. if one came at me I have a 410 shotgun and a five round 22 with hollow points but it's a Derringer. the first shot if a bear was coming at me would be with the 410 shotgun not very powerful but will it kill a bear? I know it could kill a bear but would it kill it or make it run off at least if I shot it? I was thinking the first shot should be up in the air to scare the bear what do you think? Its a one shot. I still have the 22 and I can put five shots in them sure its not a big gun but i cant imagine it would not run off being shot with it and hearing that noise is very loud. anyways my question is should I shoot the bear with a 410 in the face as it's coming at me or should I shoot in the air?

Killing in regards to bear is secondary to stopping power. Bears charge. They are fast. Neither your .410 or .22 would stop a charging bear, even a medium sized black bear. Why don't you carry something more appropriate?

and what would be the sport of that? I give myself even odds if I have 1 410 shell in five hollow point 22 bullets. the bear would have six shots in her. you think she's keep coming? that's a scary thought

 

[sealybobo]

so who said that you SHOULD survive when you're that stupid, hmm? sell the pos's and get a real gun. Even a pocket 9 can handle the job, if you're tough minded and highly skilled. You just wait until he's inside 20 ft or and get some brain hits, that's all. You'll just wound him at greater distances and really tick him off. A skilled man can get a brain hit every .20 second at such distances. Just cause he closes with you does not mean that you're dead, either. Many have survived bear maulings. Just get the muzzle up to his temple or under his chin and get the job done, that's all. Not everyone is a twit, you know.

hey at least I'm not one of those tweets who goes out completely unarmed. at least I go with six shots hopefully more and I don't know I think from what I've seen on bears I could keep a bear of me with just pointing the 410 at him.

 

[Sunni Man]

so who said that you SHOULD survive when you're that stupid, hmm? sell the pos's and get a real gun. Even a pocket 9 can handle the job, if you're tough minded and highly skilled. You just wait until he's inside 20 ft or and get some brain hits, that's all. You'll just wound him at greater distances and really tick him off. A skilled man can get a brain hit every .20 second at such distances. Just cause he closes with you does not mean that you're dead, either. Many have survived bear maulings. Just get the muzzle up to his temple or under his chin and get the job done, that's all. Not everyone is a twit, you know.

LOL.......you really are a total nitwit. ..... ..

 

[WinterBorn]

Again, fools CANNOT separate-out (in their little minds), the DIFFERENCE between sport-hunting and survival poaching. and for the punk who's scared spitless of bears, there's at least 100 black bears for every Grizz in the lower 48 states and half of the black bears are no bigger than your typical redneck or biker. I"d think nothing of hunting them all day long with a 1911 autopistol. Such a hunter just has to be smarter than YOU are, that's all (not hard) All you have to do, really, is bait them in and use a tree stand to fire from. What's to worry about, THEN, hmm? Nothing, that's what. Same thing with grizzly or brown bear and the 223. With the latter, tho, take brain shots, since the rifle gives the hunter that option, why not take it? I bet that it hurts to be as ignorant as you guys are.

Why are you survival poaching?? Is this for post SHTF situation?? Because other than that, poaching is a disgusting, low-rent practice for miscreants.

 

[WinterBorn]

there's no such thing as a '5 rd derringer". There used to be a 4 shot variant, but I haven't seen it for sale for many years now. The m4 is the finest combat and survival rifle available (for use in the US). Adapting its use for hunting if shtf is a pertinent subject. Being stupid enough as to only have a single shot (regardless of caliber or gauge) is reason enough to wish that you not survive, actually.

Many people prefer a single shot rifle for hunting. My Ruger #1 is one of the finest rifles I have ever fired. The handling characteristics are closer to a good O/U shotgun than to the average rifle. I have brought home numerous deer and a few hogs with it. I have never had to track a wounded animal.

Now, for a combat situation it would not be the best choice. (I would prefer my M1A) But if someone has a nice hunting rifle when the shit hits, their ability with the rifle (in real-world wilderness experience) might be better than some mall ninja's with his over-dressed AR.

 

[sealybobo]

45-70's, 12 ga slugs, even 458's have failed to stop charging animals with chest hits. it's gotta be a brain hit, regardless, or you are counting upon LUCK. more people die every year of insect stings and bites than of (unprovoked) bear attacks. That is a FACT. google for it. you don't bother to prep for the bugs, why bother with the bears? I hang the food, on purpose, right where critters can get at it, so that I can shoot them from my hammock, with my ccw pistol.

Sure you do. You're so full of shit I'm surprised you can walk.

he can't that's why he hunts from a hammock

 

[sealybobo]

there's no such thing as a '5 rd derringer". There used to be a 4 shot variant, but I haven't seen it for sale for many years now. The m4 is the finest combat and survival rifle available (for use in the US). Adapting its use for hunting if shtf is a pertinent subject. Being stupid enough as to only have a single shot (regardless of caliber or gauge) is reason enough to wish that you not survive, actually.

Many people prefer a single shot rifle for hunting. My Ruger #1 is one of the finest rifles I have ever fired. The handling characteristics are closer to a good O/U shotgun than to the average rifle. I have brought home numerous deer and a few hogs with it. I have never had to track a wounded animal.

Now, for a combat situation it would not be the best choice. (I would prefer my M1A) But if someone has a nice hunting rifle when the shit hits, their ability with the rifle (in real-world wilderness experience) might be better than some mall ninja's with his over-dressed AR.

let's say I'm cheap because I am what gun should I get I want to be able to shoot deer from a very long distance and I'm pretty sure whatever gun you recommend will also kill a bear

 

[sealybobo]

Again, fools CANNOT separate-out (in their little minds), the DIFFERENCE between sport-hunting and survival poaching. and for the punk who's scared spitless of bears, there's at least 100 black bears for every Grizz in the lower 48 states and half of the black bears are no bigger than your typical redneck or biker. I"d think nothing of hunting them all day long with a 1911 autopistol. Such a hunter just has to be smarter than YOU are, that's all (not hard) All you have to do, really, is bait them in and use a tree stand to fire from. What's to worry about, THEN, hmm? Nothing, that's what. Same thing with grizzly or brown bear and the 223. With the latter, tho, take brain shots, since the rifle gives the hunter that option, why not take it? I bet that it hurts to be as ignorant as you guys are.

Why are you survival poaching?? Is this for post SHTF situation?? Because other than that, poaching is a disgusting, low-rent practice for miscreants.

I'm not arguing but if you have private land and a big deer is on it and there are plenty of deer around and your freezer is empty and its off season you wouldn't shoot it?

 

[WinterBorn]

there's no such thing as a '5 rd derringer". There used to be a 4 shot variant, but I haven't seen it for sale for many years now. The m4 is the finest combat and survival rifle available (for use in the US). Adapting its use for hunting if shtf is a pertinent subject. Being stupid enough as to only have a single shot (regardless of caliber or gauge) is reason enough to wish that you not survive, actually.

Many people prefer a single shot rifle for hunting. My Ruger #1 is one of the finest rifles I have ever fired. The handling characteristics are closer to a good O/U shotgun than to the average rifle. I have brought home numerous deer and a few hogs with it. I have never had to track a wounded animal.

Now, for a combat situation it would not be the best choice. (I would prefer my M1A) But if someone has a nice hunting rifle when the shit hits, their ability with the rifle (in real-world wilderness experience) might be better than some mall ninja's with his over-dressed AR.

let's say I'm cheap because I am what gun should I get I want to be able to shoot deer from a very long distance and I'm pretty sure whatever gun you recommend will also kill a bear

Savage makes some inexpensive (relatively speaking) bolt action rifles that are tack-drivers. They have them in numerous calibers, and about anything suitable for deer will work on a black bear. I'd stay away from the .243 range, but anything around .270 or bigger will work.

 

[WinterBorn]

Again, fools CANNOT separate-out (in their little minds), the DIFFERENCE between sport-hunting and survival poaching. and for the punk who's scared spitless of bears, there's at least 100 black bears for every Grizz in the lower 48 states and half of the black bears are no bigger than your typical redneck or biker. I"d think nothing of hunting them all day long with a 1911 autopistol. Such a hunter just has to be smarter than YOU are, that's all (not hard) All you have to do, really, is bait them in and use a tree stand to fire from. What's to worry about, THEN, hmm? Nothing, that's what. Same thing with grizzly or brown bear and the 223. With the latter, tho, take brain shots, since the rifle gives the hunter that option, why not take it? I bet that it hurts to be as ignorant as you guys are.

Why are you survival poaching?? Is this for post SHTF situation?? Because other than that, poaching is a disgusting, low-rent practice for miscreants.

I'm not arguing but if you have private land and a big deer is on it and there are plenty of deer around and your freezer is empty and its off season you wouldn't shoot it?

No, I wouldn't. Yes, I understand that some people would. But Fish & Game can come on private property, and the punishment for shooting one out of season isn't worth the risk. I also believe in being an ethical hunter.

 

[sealybobo]

so who said that you SHOULD survive when you're that stupid, hmm? sell the pos's and get a real gun. Even a pocket 9 can handle the job, if you're tough minded and highly skilled. You just wait until he's inside 20 ft or and get some brain hits, that's all. You'll just wound him at greater distances and really tick him off. A skilled man can get a brain hit every .20 second at such distances. Just cause he closes with you does not mean that you're dead, either. Many have survived bear maulings. Just get the muzzle up to his temple or under his chin and get the job done, that's all. Not everyone is a twit, you know.

I think then I would wait until it got really close and then shoot it in the head I think after that I hold it off with the barrel and keep shooting it with the 22 1 2 3 4 5 shots while holding it at bay with the long 410.

I've seen bear documentaries. I'm not afraid of black bear with my firepower.

 

[sealybobo]

Again, fools CANNOT separate-out (in their little minds), the DIFFERENCE between sport-hunting and survival poaching. and for the punk who's scared spitless of bears, there's at least 100 black bears for every Grizz in the lower 48 states and half of the black bears are no bigger than your typical redneck or biker. I"d think nothing of hunting them all day long with a 1911 autopistol. Such a hunter just has to be smarter than YOU are, that's all (not hard) All you have to do, really, is bait them in and use a tree stand to fire from. What's to worry about, THEN, hmm? Nothing, that's what. Same thing with grizzly or brown bear and the 223. With the latter, tho, take brain shots, since the rifle gives the hunter that option, why not take it? I bet that it hurts to be as ignorant as you guys are.

Why are you survival poaching?? Is this for post SHTF situation?? Because other than that, poaching is a disgusting, low-rent practice for miscreants.

I'm not arguing but if you have private land and a big deer is on it and there are plenty of deer around and your freezer is empty and its off season you wouldn't shoot it?

No, I wouldn't. Yes, I understand that some people would. But Fish & Game can come on private property, and the punishment for shooting one out of season isn't worth the risk. I also believe in being an ethical hunter.

I wonder what I can shoot all year round with my small firearm like a 410? rabbit squirrel beaver Turkey? we just got 65 acres so I'm going to be doing a lot of hunting. backs up to a little river that beaver have dams on and we're thinking about tearing them down so we can go up and down the river I bet you that's not allowed either

 

[westwall]

"I bet my farm that I can do this, under conditions of fair chase and I bet another $50,000 (in today's money) that i can do it, too". This is paraphrased from Jim Carmichael's Complete Book of the Rifle, due to size of the subject box. Jim was shooting editor for Outdoor Life for decades, held many Boone and Crockett and Safari Club records for game in Africa and N America, and several records in rifle matches (both benchrest and bullseye) 22 hornets are bolt actions, or Single shots, so he was NOT talking about fast repeat hits. The M4 has 50% more power than the Hornet, too. Care to claim that you know more about this than Jim did? Wanna bet a million $ farm that I can't do the same with an M4?

Fact is, if you are desperate for meat, you FIND a way to make your tools suffice. Wanna bet that an elk goes more than 200 yds after taking 2-3 223 ball rds to the chest? In many states that have elk, you'll see him fall if that's as far as he runs. With 3 hits to the chest, the odds are very high that either both lungs are hit, or that a lung AND heart, liver, spleen or kidneys have been hit. if that's the case, he's going to be seriously weakened in 5-6 seconds, and unable to walk/run in twice that long. top speed of an elk is 50 fps, so 200 yds is all that he's going to have before he runs out of gas. The M4 offers the TRACER ammo option, you know. while firing 5-6 rds at a fleeing animal is mostly going to = gut hits, those sort of hits hurt, bleed, and weaken the critter, too. Nothing much about survival poaching has anything to do with sportsmanship, folks.

If you have to use more than ONE round to bring down an animal you're a fucking moron. There are exceptional situations where two might be necessary (I once witnessed a wild boar shot through the heart and it took off running for over a mile before it bled out.... When we dressed it out there was just a tiny bit of the heart left in the poor thing, it ran all that distance on adrenaline and terror) which is why I always head shoot my game. No muss, no fuss. No suffering on the part of the critter.

I've shot two deer in the head I agree cuz I saved a lot of meat

Killing them instantly means there's no adrenaline pumping through them so the meat's not gamey. That and it's just kind to the poor thing. It's bad enough we're killing them, only an asshole makes them suffer needlessly.

 

[westwall]

so who said that you SHOULD survive when you're that stupid, hmm? sell the pos's and get a real gun. Even a pocket 9 can handle the job, if you're tough minded and highly skilled. You just wait until he's inside 20 ft or and get some brain hits, that's all. You'll just wound him at greater distances and really tick him off. A skilled man can get a brain hit every .20 second at such distances. Just cause he closes with you does not mean that you're dead, either. Many have survived bear maulings. Just get the muzzle up to his temple or under his chin and get the job done, that's all. Not everyone is a twit, you know.

You would shit your pants if you ever saw a deer. And yes, you ARE a twit.