Zone1 Antisemites lie about Israel being an apartheid state

[alang1216]

You extreme leftists whine about Jews expressing self-determination on a tiny little plot of land but are just fine with relentless Islamic conquest until it had eaten up half of the world.

"modern historical analysis", indeed.

Yeah, those Muslims were nothing like Christians, just ask the Aztecs, the Mayans, and the Incas.

Self-determination is a good thing, EVERYONE deserves it.

 

[Hector12]

Modern historical analysis involves rigorous examination of evidence (documents, artifacts) to understand the past, focusing on context, change, cause/effect, complexity, and contingency, using new tools like digital humanities (AI for text recovery) and quantitative methods (statistics) while avoiding presentism (judging the past by today's values), all to build interpretations of historical patterns and why events unfolded as they did.

I understand the concept of modern historical analysis. What factors, other than Muslim persecution of Christian pilgrims, motivated the Crusades.

 

[alang1216]

I understand the concept of modern historical analysis. What factors, other than Muslim persecution of Christian pilgrims, motivated the Crusades.

Beyond religious claims, the Crusades were motivated by a mix of political ambition, economic opportunity, social pressure, and a desire for glory/adventure, with Popes seeking papal power, rulers aiming for land/stability, knights seeking wealth/status/land (especially younger sons), merchants eyeing trade routes, and commoners seeking spiritual rewards or escape from hardship. The Byzantines also requested aid, fearing Turkish expansion, adding a political catalyst, while the Church used indulgences and spiritual promises to channel Europe's restless warrior class.
Religious Factors (Beyond Persecution):

• Papal Authority: The Pope (Urban II) used the call to arms to assert supremacy over secular rulers and unify Christianity under his leadership.
• Spiritual Rewards: The promise of indulgences (forgiveness of sins) and a guaranteed place in heaven was a huge draw for all classes.
• Reclaiming Holy Sites: A deep desire to liberate Jerusalem and other sacred sites from Muslim control fueled religious zeal.

Political & Social Factors:

• Byzantine Appeal: The Eastern Roman (Byzantine) Emperor requested Western help against the encroaching Seljuk Turks, providing a pretext.
• Redirecting Violence: The Church sought to channel the constant warfare and aggression of European knights towards a common external enemy.
• Consolidating Power: Kings saw a chance to remove ambitious nobles from Europe and reward loyal followers with new lands.

Economic & Personal Factors:

• Wealth & Land: Knights and nobles sought new lands, riches, and fiefdoms in the East, especially younger sons with little inheritance.
• Trade & Commerce: Italian city-states (like Venice, Genoa) saw opportunities to control lucrative trade routes.
• Adventure & Escape: For commoners, it was a chance to escape poverty, debt, and oppression, or simply seek adventure and glory.

 

[ding]

Using religion to justify actions today is a dangerous precedent. Have we learned nothing from the Crusades?

You mean besides teaching the world about the volatile mix of faith, power, and human nature, and can become worldly conflicts with complex, long-term impacts far beyond their initial aims? I think they already knew that.

Fine so long as their prosperity doesn't come at the expense of others.

Isn't that how evolution works?

 

[ding]

Anyone who has read the Old Testament and the Apocrypha knows that for the Jews possession of the land of Israel is as important as personal salvation is for the Christians.

Even more so, I don't see a lot of anyone - including Christians - behaving as if they were in fear of their personal salvation.

But you don't need to read the Old Testament and the Apocrypha to know how important territory is to people or what they would do to retain it.

As much as people want to make these things about religion, war between predators is quite common in nature.

 

[ding]

Nothing is ever so simple. In essence, while the premise of defending persecuted Christians and reclaiming holy sites was central to the Crusades' justification for many medieval Europeans, modern historical analysis reveals a more complex interplay of religious fervor, political ambition, and territorial conflict.

Lessons on Conflict & Religion

• Power of Belief & Fear: Intense religious conviction (love for God, fear of eternal punishment) motivated crusaders, but fear and political ambition also drove actions, highlighting how faith can be manipulated.
• Intolerance & Violence: The Crusades demonstrate how holy war can lead to horrific violence against other faiths (Muslims, Jews) and even fellow Christians (Byzantines, heretics), leaving deep, lasting wounds.
• Unintended Consequences: Actions intended for good (freeing the Holy Land) resulted in immense suffering, showing that even noble aims can have destructive outcomes.

Lessons on Society & Culture

• Boosted Trade & Economy: Exposure to Eastern goods (silk, spices, cotton) and ideas fueled European trade, fostering the rise of a merchant class and shifting economies away from feudalism.
• Cultural & Scientific Exchange: Crusaders brought back Eastern knowledge in math, science, medicine, and philosophy, enriching European learning.
• Strengthened Monarchies: The need to raise armies and taxes for the Crusades helped centralize power in European monarchies.

Lessons on Leadership & War

• Need for Clear Goals: The failure to establish stable governments in conquered lands underscores the need for achievable objectives and exit strategies in military interventions.
• Strategic Failures: The Crusades illustrate how religious zeal can override practical military strategy, leading to protracted, costly, and ultimately unsuccessful campaigns.

 

[ding]

Yeah, those Muslims were nothing like Christians, just ask the Aztecs, the Mayans, and the Incas.

Self-determination is a good thing, EVERYONE deserves it.

Are you desiring a more kinder and gentler form of evolution?

 

[alang1216]

Isn't that how evolution works?

It's not how Christianity works. Just ask Paul.

 

[alang1216]

Are you desiring a more kinder and gentler form of evolution?

If you think of the world as a finite pie, you are wrong.

 

[JoeB131]

Jews picked a fight with the third Reich? clown... no I don't pick fights with fat old man and I'm not much younger than you are ...

not sure even you know what you are talking about.

Nobody was trying to eliminate black South Africans, that's not possible ,although thats not relevant here

No, they were trying to keep them oppressed. Just like the Jews are to the Palestinians. They don't want to completely exterminate them, who would they have to exploit for cheap labor? But genociding a hundred thousand to keep them in fear?

what's going. On there now is quite the opposite , but you no doubt approve of that one.

Um, no, what's going on are the Zionists are trying to steal someone else's land and keep the indignous people under their thumb.

The struggle here is between the barbarians, who hide behind women and children, who slaughter their own people in the streets, and Western Civilization. .

YOu mean by "Civilized", carpet bombing people? Um, killing people with more sophisticated weapons does not make you more "civilized"..

The western Europeans are losing in their part of the world because they've become weak and pathetic

Or they recognized that imperialism/colonialism is a fool's game.

The Europeans were happy to terrorize most of the rest of the world....until your average European realized he wasn't getting anything out of dying all over the world.

 

[JoeB131]

View attachment 1202964

You are comparing the wrong map.

Here's the Map you should be looking at. How much of the Middle East was controlled by European Colonizers... vs. now where' it's just that last sliver they need to rid themselves of.

 

[JoeB131]

You didn't really just write this, did you? The guy who coined the word was dishonest? You want to use a word which means something different so you blame the word? That may be the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Nice work! I thought you hit rock bottom, but you kept digging!

No, the word is dishonest because it implies a racial difference between European Christians and European Jews (Ashkenazim) when there isn't one. It's a RELIGIOUS difference.

I'm sure Militant, theocratic Muslim Arabs talked so respectfully of Jews throughout their history. Oh wait, we know they weren't...

Al-Sudais was preaching sermons calling the Jews the scum of the earth in the 2000's, also referring to them as subhuman apes and pigs.

After what the Zionists have done to them, can you blame them?

Here's the reality. During WWII, the Jewish population of North Africa (which migrated there to escape the Spanish Inquisition) was protected by the King of Morocco and the Bey of Tunis when the Nazis asked for them to be turned over.

So WTF are you talking about? This begs the question what you even think an "oppressor" is, because it appears to be yet another term the woke left has changed the definition into a vague smoke that they use and then from based on the context of the discussion... like "racist", "fascist", anything "phobic"... they all mean nothing anymore.

Here's what I think an oppressor is. An oppressor is someone who goes into someone else's country and oppresses the people who already live there.

This applies to most of the European Colonial Empires before they collapsed after WWII.
What the US did to Native Americans and the Filipinos
What the British did to Aboriginal Australians
And what the Zionists are doing to the Palestinians.

 

[Hector12]

You are comparing the wrong map.

Here's the Map you should be looking at. How much of the Middle East was controlled by European Colonizers... vs. now where' it's just that last sliver they need to rid themselves of.

View attachment 1203149

That last sliver in the only advanced, civilized country in the Near East. Unless an Arab has oil under his sand he is poor. The wealth of the Jews consists of their high IQ brains. When the Palestinians lived in a country named "Palestine" it was impoverished, because Palestine had no oil wealth. Israel still has no oil wealth, but Israel prospers because of the intelligence of the Jews.

 

[Hector12]

No, the word is dishonest because it implies a racial difference between European Christians and European Jews (Ashkenazim) when there isn't one. It's a RELIGIOUS difference.

Jews comprise both a race and a religion. Leon Trotsky was intelligent, but he was an atheist. I do not know if he attended a synagogue service in his life. he is still considered to be a Jew.

 

[Lisa558]

That last sliver in the only advanced, civilized country in the Near East. Unless an Arab has oil under his sand he is poor. The wealth of the Jews consists of their high IQ brains. When the Palestinians lived in a country named "Palestine" it was impoverished, because Palestine had no oil wealth. Israel still has no oil wealth, but Israel prospers because of the intelligence of the Jews.

It’s quite impressive what the Jews have been able to transform the arid desert land into, isn’t it? Can you imagine if they actually had OIL?l

 

[Hector12]

After what the Zionists have done to them, can you blame them?

If they don't like it they should leave.

 

[Lisa558]

Jews comprise both a race and a religion. Leon Trotsky was intelligent, but he was an atheist. I do not know if he attended a synagogue service in his life. he is still considered to be a Jew.

Yup. Those with Ashkenazi DNA have an average IQ of about 115. One’s degree of religious observance, or lack thereof, does not change that.

 

[JoeB131]

That last sliver in the only advanced, civilized country in the Near East. Unless an Arab has oil under his sand he is poor. The wealth of the Jews consists of their high IQ brains. When the Palestinians lived in a country named "Palestine" it was impoverished, because Palestine had no oil wealth. Israel still has no oil wealth, but Israel prospers because of the intelligence of the Jews.

I don't consider greed to be a virtue.

Before the Zionists started showing up, Palestine was being looted by the Turks.


But, hey, here's my solution. If we are so dedicated to a "Jewish State", the US should just give them one of ours. If they are so awesome, we would truly benefit from it being there. I'm totally sure they won't wear out their welome here like they have everywhere else they've ever gone.

Jews comprise both a race and a religion. Leon Trotsky was intelligent, but he was an atheist. I do not know if he attended a synagogue service in his life. he is still considered to be a Jew.

No, guy, they aren't a "race". They are a religion. Genetically, the Ashkenazim have nothing in common with the Sephardic Jews, or the Mizhari Jews or the Beta Israel of Ethiopia.

 

[JoeB131]

Yup. Those with Ashkenazi DNA have an average IQ of about 115. One’s degree of religious observance, or lack thereof, does not change that.

What was that average before WWII, and all the impoverished residents of the Ghettos were wiped out?

 

[Hector12]

It’s quite impressive what the Jews have been able to transform the arid desert land into, isn’t it? Can you imagine if they actually had OIL?l

The scanty fertility of a living space may instigate one race towards the highest achievements, while with another race this may only become the cause for the most dire poverty...what leads one people for starvation, trains the other for hard work.

- Adolf Hitler, from Mein Kampf, Volume I, Chapter XI, "Nation and Race"