Another perspective

[IM2]

OK we have had multiple threads about how blacks can do this or that and usually when the subject is turned to whites the thread gets trolled or moved. How about we look at a phenomenon called White Fragility. This is a term coined by a white female, Dr. Robin Deangelo.

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.”

“Any white person living in the United States will develop opinions about race simply by swimming in the water of our culture. But mainstream sources—schools, textbooks, media—don’t provide us with the multiple perspectives we need. Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate. When you add a lack of humility to that illiteracy (because we don’t know what we don’t know), you get the break-down we so often see when trying to engage white people in meaningful conversations about race.”

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

We have heard all the many ways blacks are fucked up and how we need to change according to the many whites here. How about we now look at what WHITES can did to erase the division by race in America?

 

[OldLady]

OK we have had multiple threads about how blacks can do this or that and usually when the subject is turned to whites the thread gets trolled or moved. How about we look at a phenomenon called White Fragility. This is a term coined by a white female, Dr. Robin Deangelo.

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.”

“Any white person living in the United States will develop opinions about race simply by swimming in the water of our culture. But mainstream sources—schools, textbooks, media—don’t provide us with the multiple perspectives we need. Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate. When you add a lack of humility to that illiteracy (because we don’t know what we don’t know), you get the break-down we so often see when trying to engage white people in meaningful conversations about race.”

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

We have heard all the many ways blacks are fucked up and how we need to change according to the many whites here. How about we now look at what WHITES can did to erase the division by race in America?

Johnnie Turner says black people have to tell their stories. People have to hear the stories or they won't know. Instead of just bonking white people over the head for being ignorant racists, why not tell the stories that would help us SEE the other side. What happens here in discussion about race never gets us anywhere because no one's perspective gets changed. We can't walk in your shoes until you tell us what it is like on a daily basis. Don't scream it at us or exaggerate it. Just tell the stories.
Just a suggestion.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Then there are the whites who know bullshit when they read it.........

 

[OldLady]

Then there are the whites who know bullshit when they read it.........

If that's the best you can do, the point of this thread just sailed past you.

 

[The Irish Ram]

No, none of the campaign to shame has sailed right past me. I am sick to death of the attack on anything productive. White Fragility? Shut up. Teachers making white students kneel and be shamed for being white? Not bloody likely.
We whites go to work, we raise our children to be productive. We enjoy the fruits of our labor. And are the opposite of fragile.
You may buy into this divide. I do not.
Nothing fragile about us. Just whites going about their business daily.

 

[Jimmy_Chitwood]

Would you EHO?

 

[IM2]

OK we have had multiple threads about how blacks can do this or that and usually when the subject is turned to whites the thread gets trolled or moved. How about we look at a phenomenon called White Fragility. This is a term coined by a white female, Dr. Robin Deangelo.

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.”

“Any white person living in the United States will develop opinions about race simply by swimming in the water of our culture. But mainstream sources—schools, textbooks, media—don’t provide us with the multiple perspectives we need. Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate. When you add a lack of humility to that illiteracy (because we don’t know what we don’t know), you get the break-down we so often see when trying to engage white people in meaningful conversations about race.”

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

We have heard all the many ways blacks are fucked up and how we need to change according to the many whites here. How about we now look at what WHITES can did to erase the division by race in America?

Johnnie Turner says black people have to tell their stories. People have to hear the stories or they won't know. Instead of just bonking white people over the head for being ignorant racists, why not tell the stories that would help us SEE the other side. What happens here in discussion about race never gets us anywhere because no one's perspective gets changed. We can't walk in your shoes until you tell us what it is like on a daily basis. Don't scream it at us or exaggerate it. Just tell the stories.
Just a suggestion.

While I appreciate what you have said, whites have for the better part of 2.5 centuries beat us over the head about how worthless we are. And we have asked for that to stop. It doesn't. So then when we talk to whites, once again they try establishing the rules we have to follow in order to for them to listen. And that's one of the main problems with this kind of discussion. Whites need to hear the anger and in some cases the outright hate to understand exactly what their racism has done to people. I think it's highly unfair for whites to tell us that they won't listen unless we say it to them how they want to hear it. I know you mean no harm here old lady but that is exactly what you have done. We have told you what it was like for us for at least 241 years. We have been screamed at and killed for trying to do it as well. So in my view if screaming is warranted that's what should be done. Therefore let me help you see what you have just done,.

 

[BlackSand]

While I appreciate what you have said, whites have for the better part of 2.5 centuries beat us over the head about how worthless we are. And we have asked for that to stop. It doesn't. So then when we talk to whites, once again they try establishing the rules we have to follow in order to for them to listen. And that's one of the main problems with this kind of discussion. Whites need to hear the anger and in some cases the outright hate to understand exactly what their racism has done to people. I think it's highly unfair for whites to tell us that they won't listen unless we say it to them how they want to hear it. I know you mean no harm here old lady but that is exactly what you have done. We have told you what it was like for us for at least 241 years. We have been screamed at and killed for trying to do it as well. So in my view if screaming is warranted that's what should be done. Therefore let me help you see what you have just done,.

In other words ... Y'all need to shut up and let the angry blacks be angry ... Because their angry is way more important than your angry.

.

 

[IM2]

White Fragility and the Rules of Engagement

I have discovered (as I am sure have countless people of color) that there is apparently an unspoken set of rules for how to give white people feedback on racism.

The Rules of Engagement
After years of working with my fellow whites, I have found that the only way to give feedback correctly is not to give it at all. Thus, the first rule is cardinal:

1. Do not give me feedback on my racism under any circumstances.
If you break the cardinal rule:

2. Proper tone is crucial – feedback must be given calmly. If there is any emotion in the feedback, the feedback is invalid and does not have to be considered.

This is what many whites do when they begin telling us how we are to speak to them about this issue.

White Fragility and the Rules of Engagement -

 

[IM2]

While I appreciate what you have said, whites have for the better part of 2.5 centuries beat us over the head about how worthless we are. And we have asked for that to stop. It doesn't. So then when we talk to whites, once again they try establishing the rules we have to follow in order to for them to listen. And that's one of the main problems with this kind of discussion. Whites need to hear the anger and in some cases the outright hate to understand exactly what their racism has done to people. I think it's highly unfair for whites to tell us that they won't listen unless we say it to them how they want to hear it. I know you mean no harm here old lady but that is exactly what you have done. We have told you what it was like for us for at least 241 years. We have been screamed at and killed for trying to do it as well. So in my view if screaming is warranted that's what should be done. Therefore let me help you see what you have just done,.

In other words ... Y'all need to shut up and let the angry blacks be angry ... Because their angry is way more important than your angry.

.

If that's how you see it, then you are part of the problem.

 

[IM2]

No, none of the campaign to shame has sailed right past me. I am sick to death of the attack on anything productive. White Fragility? Shut up. Teachers making white students kneel and be shamed for being white? Not bloody likely.
We whites go to work, we raise our children to be productive. We enjoy the fruits of our labor. And are the opposite of fragile.
You may buy into this divide. I do not.
Nothing fragile about us. Just whites going about their business daily.

This is not about shame, but those like you who choose to see it that way are why this nation remains divided because of race.

 

[BlackSand]

If that's how you see it, then you are part of the problem.

What problem ...

I'll just be happy when we can move forward and explore/embrace the opportunities of what we can accomplish together.
If y'all want to stay stuck in the last two centuries, talking about who is angry with crap some of us had no part in and don't give a rat's ass about ...

Than all I can say is that is less than productive and a waste of time.

.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

OK we have had multiple threads about how blacks can do this or that and usually when the subject is turned to whites the thread gets trolled or moved. How about we look at a phenomenon called White Fragility. This is a term coined by a white female, Dr. Robin Deangelo.

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.”

“Any white person living in the United States will develop opinions about race simply by swimming in the water of our culture. But mainstream sources—schools, textbooks, media—don’t provide us with the multiple perspectives we need. Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate. When you add a lack of humility to that illiteracy (because we don’t know what we don’t know), you get the break-down we so often see when trying to engage white people in meaningful conversations about race.”

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

We have heard all the many ways blacks are fucked up and how we need to change according to the many whites here. How about we now look at what WHITES can did to erase the division by race in America?

Johnnie Turner says black people have to tell their stories. People have to hear the stories or they won't know. Instead of just bonking white people over the head for being ignorant racists, why not tell the stories that would help us SEE the other side. What happens here in discussion about race never gets us anywhere because no one's perspective gets changed. We can't walk in your shoes until you tell us what it is like on a daily basis. Don't scream it at us or exaggerate it. Just tell the stories.
Just a suggestion.

Judging by this forum, then there must be even more of a Black fragility, it's especially apparent with Tiggered, Paul, and yourself.

 

[OldLady]

OK we have had multiple threads about how blacks can do this or that and usually when the subject is turned to whites the thread gets trolled or moved. How about we look at a phenomenon called White Fragility. This is a term coined by a white female, Dr. Robin Deangelo.

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.”

“Any white person living in the United States will develop opinions about race simply by swimming in the water of our culture. But mainstream sources—schools, textbooks, media—don’t provide us with the multiple perspectives we need. Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate. When you add a lack of humility to that illiteracy (because we don’t know what we don’t know), you get the break-down we so often see when trying to engage white people in meaningful conversations about race.”

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

We have heard all the many ways blacks are fucked up and how we need to change according to the many whites here. How about we now look at what WHITES can did to erase the division by race in America?

Johnnie Turner says black people have to tell their stories. People have to hear the stories or they won't know. Instead of just bonking white people over the head for being ignorant racists, why not tell the stories that would help us SEE the other side. What happens here in discussion about race never gets us anywhere because no one's perspective gets changed. We can't walk in your shoes until you tell us what it is like on a daily basis. Don't scream it at us or exaggerate it. Just tell the stories.
Just a suggestion.

While I appreciate what you have said, whites have for the better part of 2.5 centuries beat us over the head about how worthless we are. And we have asked for that to stop. It doesn't. So then when we talk to whites, once again they try establishing the rules we have to follow in order to for them to listen. And that's one of the main problems with this kind of discussion. Whites need to hear the anger and in some cases the outright hate to understand exactly what their racism has done to people. I think it's highly unfair for whites to tell us that they won't listen unless we say it to them how they want to hear it. I know you mean no harm here old lady but that is exactly what you have done. We have told you what it was like for us for at least 241 years. We have been screamed at and killed for trying to do it as well. So in my view if screaming is warranted that's what should be done. Therefore let me help you see what you have just done,.

OK we have had multiple threads about how blacks can do this or that and usually when the subject is turned to whites the thread gets trolled or moved. How about we look at a phenomenon called White Fragility. This is a term coined by a white female, Dr. Robin Deangelo.

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.”

“Any white person living in the United States will develop opinions about race simply by swimming in the water of our culture. But mainstream sources—schools, textbooks, media—don’t provide us with the multiple perspectives we need. Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate. When you add a lack of humility to that illiteracy (because we don’t know what we don’t know), you get the break-down we so often see when trying to engage white people in meaningful conversations about race.”

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

We have heard all the many ways blacks are fucked up and how we need to change according to the many whites here. How about we now look at what WHITES can did to erase the division by race in America?

Johnnie Turner says black people have to tell their stories. People have to hear the stories or they won't know. Instead of just bonking white people over the head for being ignorant racists, why not tell the stories that would help us SEE the other side. What happens here in discussion about race never gets us anywhere because no one's perspective gets changed. We can't walk in your shoes until you tell us what it is like on a daily basis. Don't scream it at us or exaggerate it. Just tell the stories.
Just a suggestion.

While I appreciate what you have said, whites have for the better part of 2.5 centuries beat us over the head about how worthless we are. And we have asked for that to stop. It doesn't. So then when we talk to whites, once again they try establishing the rules we have to follow in order to for them to listen. And that's one of the main problems with this kind of discussion. Whites need to hear the anger and in some cases the outright hate to understand exactly what their racism has done to people. I think it's highly unfair for whites to tell us that they won't listen unless we say it to them how they want to hear it. I know you mean no harm here old lady but that is exactly what you have done. We have told you what it was like for us for at least 241 years. We have been screamed at and killed for trying to do it as well. So in my view if screaming is warranted that's what should be done. Therefore let me help you see what you have just done,.

they try establishing the rules we have to follow in order to for them to listen.
This isn't rules for blacks talking to whites, it is just common sense for all human beings. Not everyone is cut out to be a diplomat; I get that. Some of you are warriors. Okay. Just don't expect to create a positive dialogue with it. No people, whatever their race or culture, listen to people screaming and angrily attacking them.
If venting makes you feel better, go for it.

 

[IM2]

The following patterns make it difficult for white people to understand racism as a system and lead to the dynamics of white fragility. While they do not apply to every white person, they are well-documented overall:

Segregation: Most whites live, grow, play, learn, love, work and die primarily in social and geographic racial segregation. Yet, our society does not teach us to see this as a loss. Pause for a moment and consider the magnitude of this message: We lose nothing of value by having no cross-racial relationships. In fact, the whiter our schools and neighborhoods are, the more likely they are to be seen as “good.” The implicit message is that there is no inherent value in the presence or perspectives of people of Color. This is an example of the relentless messages of white superiority that circulate all around us, shaping our identities and worldviews.

The Good/Bad Binary: The most effective adaptation of racism over time is the idea that racism is conscious bias held by mean people. If we are not aware of having negative thoughts about people of color, don’t tell racist jokes, are nice people, and even have friends of color, then we cannot be racist. Thus, a person is either racist or not racist; if a person is racist, that person is bad; if a person is not racist, that person is good. Although racism does of course occur in individual acts, these acts are part of a larger system that we all participate in. The focus on individual incidences prevents the analysis that is necessary in order to challenge this larger system. The good/bad binary is the fundamental misunderstanding driving white defensiveness about being connected to racism. We simply do not understand how socialization and implicit bias work.

Individualism: Whites are taught to see themselves as individuals, rather than as part of a racial group. Individualism enables us to deny that racism is structured into the fabric of society. This erases our history and hides the way in which wealth has accumulated over generations and benefits us, as a group, today. It also allows us to distance ourselves from the history and actions of our group. Thus we get very irate when we are “accused” of racism, because as individuals, we are “different” from other white people and expect to be seen as such; we find intolerable any suggestion that our behavior or perspectives are typical of our group as a whole.

Entitlement to racial comfort: In the dominant position, whites are almost always racially comfortable and thus have developed unchallenged expectations to remain so. We have not had to build tolerance for racial discomfort and thus when racial discomfort arises, whites typically respond as if something is “wrong,” and blame the person or event that triggered the discomfort (usually a person of color). This blame results in a socially-sanctioned array of responses towards the perceived source of the discomfort, including: penalization; retaliation; isolation and refusal to continue engagement. Since racism is necessarily uncomfortable in that it is oppressive, white insistence on racial comfort guarantees racism will not be faced except in the most superficial of ways.

Racial Arrogance: Most whites have a very limited understanding of racism because we have not been trained to think in complex ways about it and because it benefits white dominance not to do so. Yet, we have no compunction about debating the knowledge of people who have thought complexly about race. Whites generally feel free to dismiss these informed perspectives rather than have the humility to acknowledge that they are unfamiliar, reflect on them further, or seek more information.

Racial Belonging: White people enjoy a deeply internalized, largely unconscious sense of racial belonging in U.S. society. In virtually any situation or image deemed valuable in dominant society, whites belong. The interruption of racial belonging is rare and thus destabilizing and frightening to whites and usually avoided.

Psychic freedom: Because race is constructed as residing in people of color, whites don’t bear the social burden of race. We move easily through our society without a sense of ourselves as racialized. Race is for people of color to think about—it is what happens to “them”—they can bring it up if it is an issue for them (although if they do, we can dismiss it as a personal problem, the race card, or the reason for their problems). This allows whites much more psychological energy to devote to other issues and prevents us from developing the stamina to sustain attention on an issue as charged and uncomfortable as race.

Constant messages that we are more valuable: Living in a white dominant context, we receive constant messages that we are better and more important than people of color. For example: our centrality in history textbooks, historical representations and perspectives; our centrality in media and advertising; our teachers, role-models, heroes and heroines; everyday discourse on “good” neighborhoods and schools and who is in them; popular TV shows centered around friendship circles that are all white; religious iconography that depicts God, Adam and Eve, and other key figures as white. While one may explicitly reject the notion that one is inherently better than another, one cannot avoid internalizing the message of white superiority, as it is ubiquitous in mainstream culture.

White Fragility: Why It's So Hard to Talk to White People About Racism -

 

[OldLady]

If that's how you see it, then you are part of the problem.

What problem ...

I'll just be happy when we can move forward and explore/embrace the opportunities of what we can accomplish together.
If y'all want to stay stuck in the last two centuries, talking about who is angry with crap some of us had no part in and don't give a rat's ass about ...

Than all I can say is that is less than productive and a waste of time.

.

I agree but I also hear what IM2 is saying about whites understanding where the hate comes from on the black end. It's obvious, and it is something we can't just dismiss as stemming from a long time ago. It's there now so it still has to be taken into consideration.

 

[OldLady]

OK we have had multiple threads about how blacks can do this or that and usually when the subject is turned to whites the thread gets trolled or moved. How about we look at a phenomenon called White Fragility. This is a term coined by a white female, Dr. Robin Deangelo.

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.”

“Any white person living in the United States will develop opinions about race simply by swimming in the water of our culture. But mainstream sources—schools, textbooks, media—don’t provide us with the multiple perspectives we need. Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate. When you add a lack of humility to that illiteracy (because we don’t know what we don’t know), you get the break-down we so often see when trying to engage white people in meaningful conversations about race.”

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

We have heard all the many ways blacks are fucked up and how we need to change according to the many whites here. How about we now look at what WHITES can did to erase the division by race in America?

Johnnie Turner says black people have to tell their stories. People have to hear the stories or they won't know. Instead of just bonking white people over the head for being ignorant racists, why not tell the stories that would help us SEE the other side. What happens here in discussion about race never gets us anywhere because no one's perspective gets changed. We can't walk in your shoes until you tell us what it is like on a daily basis. Don't scream it at us or exaggerate it. Just tell the stories.
Just a suggestion.

Judging by this forum, then there must be even more of a Black fragility, it's especially apparent with Tiggered, Paul, and yourself.

? Really? Dunno who Paul is, but I'm not black, you know that, right?

 

[The Irish Ram]

This is not about shame, but those like you who choose to see it that way are why this nation remains divided because of race.

Black fragility is _________. < Fill in the blank to remove any racial generalise....
People like me know the difference between an actual divide and a UN created chasm.
This is bought and paid for movement. It depends on stupidity to pull it off. And you are more than willing to oblige....

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Black fragility: I complimented Blacks to a Black guy, by calling Blacks as good dancers, he got upset, and muttered "That's offensive"

 

[OldLady]

The following patterns make it difficult for white people to understand racism as a system and lead to the dynamics of white fragility. While they do not apply to every white person, they are well-documented overall:

Segregation: Most whites live, grow, play, learn, love, work and die primarily in social and geographic racial segregation. Yet, our society does not teach us to see this as a loss. Pause for a moment and consider the magnitude of this message: We lose nothing of value by having no cross-racial relationships. In fact, the whiter our schools and neighborhoods are, the more likely they are to be seen as “good.” The implicit message is that there is no inherent value in the presence or perspectives of people of Color. This is an example of the relentless messages of white superiority that circulate all around us, shaping our identities and worldviews.

The Good/Bad Binary: The most effective adaptation of racism over time is the idea that racism is conscious bias held by mean people. If we are not aware of having negative thoughts about people of color, don’t tell racist jokes, are nice people, and even have friends of color, then we cannot be racist. Thus, a person is either racist or not racist; if a person is racist, that person is bad; if a person is not racist, that person is good. Although racism does of course occur in individual acts, these acts are part of a larger system that we all participate in. The focus on individual incidences prevents the analysis that is necessary in order to challenge this larger system. The good/bad binary is the fundamental misunderstanding driving white defensiveness about being connected to racism. We simply do not understand how socialization and implicit bias work.

Individualism: Whites are taught to see themselves as individuals, rather than as part of a racial group. Individualism enables us to deny that racism is structured into the fabric of society. This erases our history and hides the way in which wealth has accumulated over generations and benefits us, as a group, today. It also allows us to distance ourselves from the history and actions of our group. Thus we get very irate when we are “accused” of racism, because as individuals, we are “different” from other white people and expect to be seen as such; we find intolerable any suggestion that our behavior or perspectives are typical of our group as a whole.

Entitlement to racial comfort: In the dominant position, whites are almost always racially comfortable and thus have developed unchallenged expectations to remain so. We have not had to build tolerance for racial discomfort and thus when racial discomfort arises, whites typically respond as if something is “wrong,” and blame the person or event that triggered the discomfort (usually a person of color). This blame results in a socially-sanctioned array of responses towards the perceived source of the discomfort, including: penalization; retaliation; isolation and refusal to continue engagement. Since racism is necessarily uncomfortable in that it is oppressive, white insistence on racial comfort guarantees racism will not be faced except in the most superficial of ways.

Racial Arrogance: Most whites have a very limited understanding of racism because we have not been trained to think in complex ways about it and because it benefits white dominance not to do so. Yet, we have no compunction about debating the knowledge of people who have thought complexly about race. Whites generally feel free to dismiss these informed perspectives rather than have the humility to acknowledge that they are unfamiliar, reflect on them further, or seek more information.

Racial Belonging: White people enjoy a deeply internalized, largely unconscious sense of racial belonging in U.S. society. In virtually any situation or image deemed valuable in dominant society, whites belong. The interruption of racial belonging is rare and thus destabilizing and frightening to whites and usually avoided.

Psychic freedom: Because race is constructed as residing in people of color, whites don’t bear the social burden of race. We move easily through our society without a sense of ourselves as racialized. Race is for people of color to think about—it is what happens to “them”—they can bring it up if it is an issue for them (although if they do, we can dismiss it as a personal problem, the race card, or the reason for their problems). This allows whites much more psychological energy to devote to other issues and prevents us from developing the stamina to sustain attention on an issue as charged and uncomfortable as race.

Constant messages that we are more valuable: Living in a white dominant context, we receive constant messages that we are better and more important than people of color. For example: our centrality in history textbooks, historical representations and perspectives; our centrality in media and advertising; our teachers, role-models, heroes and heroines; everyday discourse on “good” neighborhoods and schools and who is in them; popular TV shows centered around friendship circles that are all white; religious iconography that depicts God, Adam and Eve, and other key figures as white. While one may explicitly reject the notion that one is inherently better than another, one cannot avoid internalizing the message of white superiority, as it is ubiquitous in mainstream culture.

White Fragility: Why It's So Hard to Talk to White People About Racism -

The Good/Bad Binary: The most effective adaptation of racism over time is the idea that racism is conscious bias held by mean people. If we are not aware of having negative thoughts about people of color, don’t tell racist jokes, are nice people, and even have friends of color, then we cannot be racist.
This is exactly why people who think they're "woke" need to hear the stories of what it's really like out there for blacks. The individual, daily stories of bias that still exists. You don't have to tell them, though, if you're too pissed off.

 

[BlackSand]

I agree but I also hear what IM2 is saying about whites understanding where the hate comes from on the black end. It's obvious, and it is something we can't just dismiss as stemming from a long time ago. It's there now so it still has to be taken into consideration.

Hate serves no practical purpose ... It isn't going to get us where we need to go.
I don't care why a black person may hate me ... That's their problem, and not one I plan on enabling any further.

We can either move forward ... Or their hateful asses can stay behind ... I have no use for it.
I owe them nothing ... They owe me nothing ... We will engage in a joint venture or they will watch me leave them behind.

I have no interest in understanding what doesn't make a difference ... Everyone faces challenges ... None of our challenges are equal.
The pity party is over.

.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

OK we have had multiple threads about how blacks can do this or that and usually when the subject is turned to whites the thread gets trolled or moved. How about we look at a phenomenon called White Fragility. This is a term coined by a white female, Dr. Robin Deangelo.

White people in North America live in a social environment that protects and insulates them from race-based stress. This insulated environment of racial protection builds white expectations for racial comfort while at the same time lowering the ability to tolerate racial stress, leading to what I refer to as White Fragility. White Fragility is a state in which even a minimum amount of racial stress becomes intolerable, triggering a range of defensive moves. These moves include the outward display of emotions such as anger, fear, and guilt, and behaviors such as argumentation, silence, and leaving the stress-inducing situation. These behaviors, in turn, function to reinstate white racial equilibrium.”

“Any white person living in the United States will develop opinions about race simply by swimming in the water of our culture. But mainstream sources—schools, textbooks, media—don’t provide us with the multiple perspectives we need. Yes, we will develop strong emotionally laden opinions, but they will not be informed opinions. Our socialization renders us racially illiterate. When you add a lack of humility to that illiteracy (because we don’t know what we don’t know), you get the break-down we so often see when trying to engage white people in meaningful conversations about race.”

Dr. Robin DiAngelo

We have heard all the many ways blacks are fucked up and how we need to change according to the many whites here. How about we now look at what WHITES can did to erase the division by race in America?

Johnnie Turner says black people have to tell their stories. People have to hear the stories or they won't know. Instead of just bonking white people over the head for being ignorant racists, why not tell the stories that would help us SEE the other side. What happens here in discussion about race never gets us anywhere because no one's perspective gets changed. We can't walk in your shoes until you tell us what it is like on a daily basis. Don't scream it at us or exaggerate it. Just tell the stories.
Just a suggestion.

Judging by this forum, then there must be even more of a Black fragility, it's especially apparent with Tiggered, Paul, and yourself.

but I'm not black, you know that, right?

Why do you insist on fighting for the other team?

 

[OldLady]

I agree but I also hear what IM2 is saying about whites understanding where the hate comes from on the black end. It's obvious, and it is something we can't just dismiss as stemming from a long time ago. It's there now so it still has to be taken into consideration.

Hate serves no practical purpose ... It isn't going to get us where we need to go.
I don't care why a black person may hate me ... That's their problem, and not one I plan on enabling any further.

We can either move forward ... Or their hateful asses can stay behind ... I have no use for it.
I owe them nothing ... They owe me nothing ... We will engage in a joint venture or they will watch me leave them behind.

I have no interest in understanding what doesn't make a difference ... Everyone faces challenges ... None of our challenges are equal.
The pity party is over.

.

There are a lot of angry people out there, BlackSand. I'd love to think we could all do what you plan to do, but I think it is ignoring a problem that won't go away because we will it. I hope I'm wrong.