AnOTHER Open Challenge for my AGW Friends

[ding]

Numerous posters here have claimed to have evidence that:

1) The world is not getting warmer

2) The oceans are not rising

3) The cryosphere is not melting

4) Climate scientists are lying to us, AGW is a liberal/democratic hoax

I thought it might be handy to have one spot to put all that amazing stuff. Here you go, oh me brothers.

Looks like you are running out of things to tell us about. Or are afraid to.

 

[ReinyDays]

Looks like you are running out of things to tell us about. Or are afraid to.

Let's go back to surface waves causing more ringing on the ocean floor ... that was funny ... ping ping ping ping ... poor lil' copepods ...

 

[marvin martian]

Numerous posters here have claimed to have evidence that:

1) The world is not getting warmer

2) The oceans are not rising

3) The cryosphere is not melting

4) Climate scientists are lying to us, AGW is a liberal/democratic hoax

I thought it might be handy to have one spot to put all that amazing stuff. Here you go, oh me brothers.

What are you personally doing to fight global warming?

 

[Crick]

My typing was interrupted by a RL errand, but maybe this'll keep you happy for a bit

I still have my old Physics textbook. "University Physics", 5th edition, by Sears, Zemansky and Young. The book is divided into two parts. The first is "Mechanics, Heat and Sound". The second is "Electricity and Magnetism, Light and Atomic Physics". Each part is divided into chapters. Beginning at Chapter 15 of Part I we find 15) Temperature and Expansion, 16) Heat and Heat Measurements, 17) Transfer of Heat, 18) Thermal Properties of Matter and 19) The Laws of Thermodynamics. Chapter 15, Section 1 states (and I'm copying all this out by hand so you'd better damned well read it):

To describe the equilibrium states of mechanical systems, as well as to study and predict the motions of rigid bodies and fluids, only three fundamental indefinables were needed: length, mass and time. All other physical quantities of importance in mechanics could be expressed in terms of these three indefinables. We come, now, however, to a series of phenomena, called thermal effects or heat phenomena, which involve aspects that are essentially nonmechanical and which require for their description a fourth fundamental indefinable, the temperature.

The familiar sensations of hotness and coldness are described with adjectives such as cold, cool, tepid, warm, hot, etc. When we touch an object, we use our temperature sense to ascribe to the object a property called temperature, which determines whether it will feel hot or cold to the touch. The hotter it feels, the higher the temperature. This procedure plays the same role in "qualitative science" that hefting a body does in determining its weight or that kicking an object does in estimating its mass. To determine the mass of an object quantitatively, we must first arrive at the concept of mass by means of quantitative operations such as measuring the acceleration imparted to the object by measured force, and then taking the ration of F to a. Similarly, the quantitative determination of temperature requires a set of operations that are independent of our sense perceptions of hotness or coldness, and which involve quantities that can be measured objectively. How this is done will be explained in the following paragraphs.

Even before treating the concept of temperature in a precise, quantitative manner, we can note that there are numerous simple systems in which a quantity characterizing the state of the system varies with the hotness or coldness of the system. A simple example is a liquid such as mercury or alcohol in a bulb attached to a very thin tube, as in Fig. 15-1(a). The significant quantity characterizing the state of this system is the length L of the liquid column, measured from some arbitrary fixed point. Another simple system is a quantity of gas in a constant volume container, shown in Fig 15-1(b). Here the varying quantity, which we may refer to in these examples as a state coordinate, is the pressure, which varies as the gas becomes hotter or colder. A third example is the electrical resistance of a wire, which also varies with hotness and coldness.

Let A stand for the liquid-in-capillary system with state coordinate L, and let B stand for the gas at constant volume, with state coordinate p. If A and B are brought into contact, their state coordinates, in general, are found to change. When A and B are separated, however, the change is slower, and when thick walls of various materials, such as wood, plaster, felt, asbestos, etc, are used to separate A and B, the values of the respective state coordinates L and p are almost independent of each other. Generalizing from these observations, we postulate the existence of an ideal partition, called an adiabatic wall, which, when used to separate two systems, allows their state coordinates to vary over a large range independently.

You still haven't answered either ... you don't know, is why ... why do you lie about a year in therm? ... that's an obvious lie ...

What definition do Climatologists use? ... and why do Climatologists know that is wrong? ...

 

[marvin martian]

My typing was interrupted by a RL errand, but maybe this'll keep you happy for a bit

I still have my old Physics textbook. "University Physics", 5th edition, by Sears, Zemansky and Young. The book is divided into two parts. The first is "Mechanics, Heat and Sound". The second is "Electricity and Magnetism, Light and Atomic Physics". Each part is divided into chapters. Beginning at Chapter 15 of Part I we find 15) Temperature and Expansion, 16) Heat and Heat Measurements, 17) Transfer of Heat, 18) Thermal Properties of Matter and 19) The Laws of Thermodynamics. Chapter 15, Section 1 states (and I'm copying all this out by hand so you'd better damned well read it):

To describe the equilibrium states of mechanical systems, as well as to study and predict the motions of rigid bodies and fluids, only three fundamental indefinables were needed: length, mass and time. All other physical quantities of importance in mechanics could be expressed in terms of these three indefinables. We come, now, however, to a series of phenomena, called thermal effects or heat phenomena, which involve aspects that are essentially nonmechanical and which require for their description a fourth fundamental indefinable, the temperature.

The familiar sensations of hotness and coldness are described with adjectives such as cold, cool, tepid, warm, hot, etc. When we touch an object, we use our temperature sense to ascribe to the object a property called temperature, which determines whether it will feel hot or cold to the touch. The hotter it feels, the higher the temperature. This procedure plays the same role in "qualitative science" that hefting a body does in determining its weight or that kicking an object does in estimating its mass. To determine the mass of an object quantitatively, we must first arrive at the concept of mass by means of quantitative operations such as measuring the acceleration imparted to the object by measured force, and then taking the ration of F to a. Similarly, the quantitative determination of temperature requires a set of operations that are independent of our sense perceptions of hotness or coldness, and which involve quantities that can be measured objectively. How this is done will be explained in the following paragraphs.

Even before treating the concept of temperature in a precise, quantitative manner, we can note that there are numerous simple systems in which a quantity characterizing the state of the system varies with the hotness or coldness of the system. A simple example is a liquid such as mercury or alcohol in a bulb attached to a very thin tube, as in Fig. 15-1(a). The significant quantity characterizing the state of this system is the length L of the liquid column, measured from some arbitrary fixed point. Another simple system is a quantity of gas in a constant volume container, shown in Fig 15-1(b). Here the varying quantity, which we may refer to in these examples as a state coordinate, is the pressure, which varies as the gas becomes hotter or colder. A third example is the electrical resistance of a wire, which also varies with hotness and coldness.

Let A stand for the liquid-in-capillary system with state coordinate L, and let B stand for the gas at constant volume, with state coordinate p. If A and B are brought into contact, their state coordinates, in general, are found to change. When A and B are separated, however, the change is slower, and when thick walls of various materials, such as wood, plaster, felt, asbestos, etc, are used to separate A and B, the values of the respective state coordinates L and p are almost independent of each other. Generalizing from these observations, we postulate the existence of an ideal partition, called an adiabatic wall, which, when used to separate two systems, allows their state coordinates to vary over a large range independently.

What are you personally doing to fight global warming?

 

[ReinyDays]

My typing was interrupted by a RL errand, but maybe this'll keep you happy for a bit

I still have my old Physics textbook. "University Physics", 5th edition, by Sears, Zemansky and Young. The book is divided into two parts. The first is "Mechanics, Heat and Sound". The second is "Electricity and Magnetism, Light and Atomic Physics". Each part is divided into chapters. Beginning at Chapter 15 of Part I we find 15) Temperature and Expansion, 16) Heat and Heat Measurements, 17) Transfer of Heat, 18) Thermal Properties of Matter and 19) The Laws of Thermodynamics. Chapter 15, Section 1 states (and I'm copying all this out by hand so you'd better damned well read it):

To describe the equilibrium states of mechanical systems, as well as to study and predict the motions of rigid bodies and fluids, only three fundamental indefinables were needed: length, mass and time. All other physical quantities of importance in mechanics could be expressed in terms of these three indefinables. We come, now, however, to a series of phenomena, called thermal effects or heat phenomena, which involve aspects that are essentially nonmechanical and which require for their description a fourth fundamental indefinable, the temperature.

The familiar sensations of hotness and coldness are described with adjectives such as cold, cool, tepid, warm, hot, etc. When we touch an object, we use our temperature sense to ascribe to the object a property called temperature, which determines whether it will feel hot or cold to the touch. The hotter it feels, the higher the temperature. This procedure plays the same role in "qualitative science" that hefting a body does in determining its weight or that kicking an object does in estimating its mass. To determine the mass of an object quantitatively, we must first arrive at the concept of mass by means of quantitative operations such as measuring the acceleration imparted to the object by measured force, and then taking the ration of F to a. Similarly, the quantitative determination of temperature requires a set of operations that are independent of our sense perceptions of hotness or coldness, and which involve quantities that can be measured objectively. How this is done will be explained in the following paragraphs.

Even before treating the concept of temperature in a precise, quantitative manner, we can note that there are numerous simple systems in which a quantity characterizing the state of the system varies with the hotness or coldness of the system. A simple example is a liquid such as mercury or alcohol in a bulb attached to a very thin tube, as in Fig. 15-1(a). The significant quantity characterizing the state of this system is the length L of the liquid column, measured from some arbitrary fixed point. Another simple system is a quantity of gas in a constant volume container, shown in Fig 15-1(b). Here the varying quantity, which we may refer to in these examples as a state coordinate, is the pressure, which varies as the gas becomes hotter or colder. A third example is the electrical resistance of a wire, which also varies with hotness and coldness.

Let A stand for the liquid-in-capillary system with state coordinate L, and let B stand for the gas at constant volume, with state coordinate p. If A and B are brought into contact, their state coordinates, in general, are found to change. When A and B are separated, however, the change is slower, and when thick walls of various materials, such as wood, plaster, felt, asbestos, etc, are used to separate A and B, the values of the respective state coordinates L and p are almost independent of each other. Generalizing from these observations, we postulate the existence of an ideal partition, called an adiabatic wall, which, when used to separate two systems, allows their state coordinates to vary over a large range independently.

Why not just type in "kinetic energy"? ... RL errand my ass ... you ran to the public library to get a textbook ... you spend a solid year studying entropy and this is the best you can come up with ... that's sad ...

So why is the Kinetic Theory of Gases wrong? ...

 

[jc456]

What are you personally doing to fight global warming?

I don’t do anything, I don’t cause it

 

[Crick]

I still have my old Physics textbook. "University Physics", 5th edition, by Sears, Zemansky and Young. The book is divided into two parts. The first is "Mechanics, Heat and Sound". The second is "Electricity and Magnetism, Light and Atomic Physics". Each part is divided into chapters. Beginning at Chapter 15 of Part I we find 15) Temperature and Expansion, 16) Heat and Heat Measurements, 17) Transfer of Heat, 18) Thermal Properties of Matter and 19) The Laws of Thermodynamics. Chapter 15, Section 1 states (and I'm copying all this out by hand so you'd better damned well read it):

To describe the equilibrium states of mechanical systems, as well as to study and predict the motions of rigid bodies and fluids, only three fundamental indefinables were needed: length, mass and time. All other physical quantities of importance in mechanics could be expressed in terms of these three indefinables. We come, now, however, to a series of phenomena, called thermal effects or heat phenomena, which involve aspects that are essentially nonmechanical and which require for their description a fourth fundamental indefinable, the temperature.

The familiary sensations of hotness and coldness are described with adjectives such as cold, cool, tepid, warm, hot, etc. When we touch an object, we use our temperature sense to ascribe to the obect a property called temperature, which determines whether it will feel hot or cold to the touch. The hotter it feels, the higher the temperature. This procedure plays the same role in "qualiftative science" that hefting a body does in determining its weight or that kicking an object does in estimating its mass. To detemine the mass of an object quantitatively, we must first arrive at the concept of mass by means of quantitative operations such as measuring the acceleration imparted to the object by measured force, and then taking the ration of F to a. Similarly, the quantitative determination of temperature requires a set of operations that are independent of our sense perceptions of hotness or coldness, and which involve quantities that can be measured objectively. How this is done will be explained in the following paragraphs.

Even before treating the concept of temperature in a precise, quantitative manner, we can note that there are numerous simple systems in whch a quantity characterizing the state of the system varies with the hotness or coldness of the system. A simple example is a liquid such as mercury or alcohol in a bulb attached to a very thin tube, as in Fig. 15-1(a). The significant quantity characterizing the state of this system is the length L of the liquid column, measured from some arbitrary fixed point. Another simple system is a quantity of gas in a constant volume container, shown in Fig 15-1(b). Here the varying quantity, which we may refer to in these examples as a state coordinate, is the pressure, which varies as the gas becomes hotter or colder. A third example is the electrical resistance of a wire, which also varies with hotness and coldness.

Let A stand for the liquid-in-capillary system with state coordinate L, and let B stand for the gas at constatn volume, with state coordinate p. If A and B are brought into contact, their state cordinates, in general, are found to change. When A and B are separated, however, the change is slower, and when thick walls of various materials, such as wood, plaster, felt, asbestos, etc, are used to separate A and B, the values of the respective state coordinates L and p are almost independent of each other. Generalizing from these observations, we postulate the existence of an ideal partition, called an adiabatic wall, which, when used to separate two systems, allows their state coordinates to vary over a large range independently. An adiabatic wall is an idealization that cannot be realized perfectly but may be approximated closely. In Fig 15-2(a), such a wall is represented as a thick, cross-shaded region.

When systems A and B are first put into actual contact or are separated by a thin metallic partition, their state coordinates may or many change. A wall which enables a state coordinate of one system to influence that of another is called a diathermic wall. A thin sheet of copper is an example of a diathermic wall. In Fig 15-2(b), a diathermic wall is depicted as a thin, darkly shaded region. Eventually, a time will be reached when no further change in the coordinates of A and B takes place. The joint state of both systems that exists when all changes in the coordinates have ceased is called thermal equilibrium.

Imagine two systems A and B separated from each other by an adiabatic wall but each in contact with a third system C through diathermic walls, the whole assembly being surrounded by an adiabatic wall as shown in Fig 15-3(a). Experiment shows that the two systems will come to thermal equilibrium with the third and that no further change will occur if the adiabatic wall separating them is then replaced by a diathermic wall (Fig 15-3(b)). If, instead of allowing both systems A and B to come to equilibrium with C at the same time, we first have equilibrium between A and C then equilibrium between B and C (the state of system C being the same in both cases), then, when A and B are brought into communication through a diathermic wall, they will be found to be in thermal equilibrium. We shall use the expression "two systems are in thermal equilibrium" to mean that the two system are in states such that if the two were to be connected through a diathermic wall, the combined system would be in thermal equilibrium.

The experimental facts may then be stated concisely in the following form: Two systems in thermal equilibrium with a third are in thermal equilibrium with each other. Following R. H. Fowler, we shall call this postulate the zeroth law of thermodynamics. At first thought it might seem that the zeroth law is obvious, but its truth must be verified by experiment.

When two systems A and B are first put in contact through a diathermic wall, they may or may not be in thermal equilibrium. One is entitled to ask "What is there about A and B that determines whether or not they are in thermal equilibrium?" We are led to infer the existence of a new property called the temperature. The temperature of a system is that property which determines whether or not it will be in thermal equilibrium with other systems. When two or more systems are in thermal equilibrium, they are said to have the same temperature.

The temperature of all systems in thermal equilibrium may be represented by a number. The establishment of a temperature scale is merely the adoption of a set of rules for assigning numbers to temperatures. Once this is done, the condition for themral equilibrium between two systems is that they have the same temperature. When the temperatures of two systems are different, we may be sure that they are not in thermal equilibrium.

The temperature of a material is directly related to the energies of its molecules; as temperature increases, molecular motion increases. The relation of temperature to microscopic mechanical energy will be explored in detail in Chapter 20. It is important to understand, however, that temperature can be defined without reference to molecular considerations. Indeed, temperature is inherently a macroscopic concept that has no meaning for an individual molecule. Temperature can be related to molecular motion only by considering the average energy of a large number of molecules.

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Anything else?

 

[Crick]

What are you personally doing to fight global warming?

Voting for candidates who also accept mainstream science's conclusions re AGW and debating here with doubters like you.

 

[Crick]

Why not just type in "kinetic energy"?

I'll type what I want to type and you can just run along.

... RL errand my ass ... you ran to the public library to get a textbook ..

. you spend a solid year studying entropy and this is the best you can come up with ... that's sad ...

I spent three semesters studying thermodynamics and heat transfer. If you think that can all be summed up as "entropy" then I have to suspect you have NOT taken such classes.

So why is the Kinetic Theory of Gases wrong? ...

Who said it was wrong?

You need to move on. No one here would even remember that I ever corrected you if you didn't make it obvious every day by your otherwise unjustified anger.

 

[jc456]

Voting for candidates who also accept mainstream science's conclusions re AGW and debating here with doubters like you.

So you vote for candidates who punish those who don’t agree with them

 

[Crick]

So you vote for candidates who punish those who don’t agree with them

The number of times denier posters here blatantly lie about what I have said or what positions I support has become sadly ridiculous. And you wonder why I don't faithfully respond to you. I've had you on ignore for over a year. Every time I've talked with you since then has been because I chose to waive that. We all make mistakes.

 

[ding]

I'll type what I want to type and you can just run along.

View attachment 862422

I spent three semesters studying thermodynamics and heat transfer. If you think that can all be summed up as "entropy" then I have to suspect you have NOT taken such classes.

Who said it was wrong?

You need to move on. No one here would even remember that I ever corrected you if you didn't make it obvious every day by your otherwise unjustified anger.

If that were the case you would be able to state the instantaneous radiative forcing of CO2 instead of the climate sensitivity version of it.

 

[EMH]

The premise here, that CO2 does nothing is a demonstrable falsehood

LOL!!!


The highly correlated satellite and balloon data shows NO WARMING in the atmosphere despite rising Co2. Then your side FUDGED BOTH with "corrections" your crock ass won't defend....

Co2 does NOTHING.

 

[EMH]

This is your absurd claim that there is no ice (or glaciers) in Alaska north of the Arctic Circle. There are glaciers in Alaska north and south of the Arctic Circle.

This is the credibility of the Co2 FRAUD.

There is no difference between Alaska, which is green except on top of mountains, and Greenland, which is buried under mile thick ice.

Alaska has no ICE AGE GLACIER north of the Arctic Circle, where Greenland has ICE AGE GLACIER south of Arctic Circle, and the Co2 FRAUD cannot explain that, because the explanation is that Greenland is in ICE AGE and Alaska is NOT....

 

[jc456]

This is the credibility of the Co2 FRAUD.

There is no difference between Alaska, which is green except on top of mountains, and Greenland, which is buried under mile thick ice.

Alaska has no ICE AGE GLACIER north of the Arctic Circle, where Greenland has ICE AGE GLACIER south of Arctic Circle, and the Co2 FRAUD cannot explain that, because the explanation is that Greenland is in ICE AGE and Alaska is NOT....

Th Pacific currents control all of that. I wish these idiots would learn how the globe worked!

 

[EMH]

Th Pacific currents control all of that. I wish these idiots would learn how the globe worked!

Not quite. The Pacific Ocean currents are like the wind. They do not control ice ages.

This is what you and crock are equating....




Alaska has ice just on top of mountains.... and has trees and grass north of Arctic Circle...

Greenland is in continent specific ice age and has mile thick ice age glacier south of Arctic Circle, as well as 7% of Earth ice (AA has 90%)

Maybe when land gets to 600 miles of an Earth pole, the annual snowfall ceases to fully melt in the summer, and it starts to stack, and that is the start of a continent specific ice age....

but it requires an IQ over 5 to think that through....

 

[jc456]

Not quite. The Pacific Ocean currents are like the wind. They do not control ice ages.

This is what you and crock are equating....




Alaska has ice just on top of mountains.... and has trees and grass north of Arctic Circle...

Greenland is in continent specific ice age and has mile thick ice age glacier south of Arctic Circle, as well as 7% of Earth ice (AA has 90%)

Maybe when land gets to 600 miles of an Earth pole, the annual snowfall ceases to fully melt in the summer, and it starts to stack, and that is the start of a continent specific ice age....

but it requires an IQ over 5 to think that through....

Again, my point was the pacific ocean controls where the cold of the arctic goes. That's just a fact. When warm water from the pacific pushes north to Alaska, the Polar vortex drops through....... Minnesota, through Wisconsin to Chicago and southward to Florida. It just does. We just had a polar drop this past week, if you look at the cold spots all east of Iowa. Greenland is east of Iowa.BTW, that's why Greenland will never thaw as all the doomsdayers predict every year. hahahahahahahahaaha Also, Alaska is at times in the winter warmer than Chicago and Atlanta!!!!!

 

[EMH]

Again, my point was the pacific ocean controls where the cold of the arctic goes. That's just a fact. When warm water from the pacific pushes north to Alaska, the Polar vortex drops through....... Minnesota, through Wisconsin to Chicago and southward to Florida. It just does. We just had a polar drop this past week, if you look at the cold spots all east of Iowa. Greenland is east of Iowa.BTW, that's why Greenland will never thaw as all the doomsdayers predict every year. hahahahahahahahaaha Also, Alaska is at times in the winter warmer than Chicago and Atlanta!!!!!

Ocean currents effect temperatures. Ocean currents change all the time. Ocean currents do not explain ice age vs. no ice age. Only tectonic plate movement and latitude do...

 

[Crick]

Not quite. The Pacific Ocean currents are like the wind. They do not control ice ages.

This is what you and crock are equating....




Alaska has ice just on top of mountains.... and has trees and grass north of Arctic Circle...

Greenland is in continent specific ice age and has mile thick ice age glacier south of Arctic Circle, as well as 7% of Earth ice (AA has 90%)

Maybe when land gets to 600 miles of an Earth pole, the annual snowfall ceases to fully melt in the summer, and it starts to stack, and that is the start of a continent specific ice age....

but it requires an IQ over 5 to think that through....

You need help.