Another NATO Coup in Romania

[Zavulon]

Why? Why would Russia not use poison?

Russia usually use poison when the target is not available by other means and when significant collateral damage is more or less acceptable, as, say it was in the case of Khattab elimination. He was strongly guarded and with him more than twenty other terrorists had died. In the case of Skripal it was much more easer just to shoot him, and, of course, the collateral damage, especially a Russian citizen, was not acceptable.

Litvinenko was killed with plutonium in the UK. He was former FSB. And like Skripal, he worked against Putin and Russia to help other intelligence agencies.

He wasn't killed with "plutonium". It was reported that he was killed with Polonium-210. Both Russia and the USA use Polonium-210 in eliminations, but not as a poison, but as a part of neutron-emmiter (in Berillium case). Almost no traces (if you don't know were and how to search), clean death.
The British storywritters of the first season of "The Russian Poisoners" heard something, but, as usually, didn't understand it.

You think it's a coincidence that two former FSB agents were killed in such circumstances?

No. It's not coincidence. Just lack of fantasy of British storywriters of mockumentary TV-shows.

Then you have the biggest traitor of all, Prigozhin, we all knew he'd be assassinated, because it's what Putin does. And he made it super showy. Blowing up a plane in mid air. It's what Putin does. People who Putin wants to make an example of, he does.

May be. May be not.

Yeah, exactly, the Malaysian Airlines flight shot down was "pretty simple", or at least for you. Let's forget the facts, let's forget anything that's inconvenient for Russia.

Why do you thin the Russian media posted this photo?

View attachment 1053665

It was not official. Media love speculation, that's their bread.

The media does NOT post things that Putin doesn't like.

Wow. Do you really think, that Putin is a dark wisard who can actually personally control every writing person or every media?

So it must have been approved at some level, and probably a very high level. If Russia, or most likely, Russian backed rebels, didn't shoot it down, why go to all the effort to fake an image and post it in the media, the truth would have sufficed.

Why not allow media to earn some money? Public love sensations. People need different sources of information to train their critical thinking. Russia is more or less free country. You do what you want to do and the borders of "acceptable" are, may be, even more wider than in West.

You're not providing anything but the Russian line. You're not using logic, you're just saying what you have to say. Everything I'm saying is LOGIC.

Of course no. You are just parroting Western propaganda. What is worse - you do denie necesserity of the alternative points of view, open discussions, proper procedures (even if the Russians are involved), freedom of media, etc... You denie democracy, basically saying.

 

[Zavulon]

Did this hysterical Estonian NAZI actually say what new technologies and what code or as usual was just blowing hot air through her arse?

Of course, she didn't said anything specific. As far as I know, the whole problem was that Tic-toc campaign was more successful than the campaign from "traditional corrupted media". But the main problem is that adult, responsible, well-informed people, do prefer peace to war and wealth to poverty, while nazies prefer to see their population as poor, agressive and mindless biomass and new technologies give people better access to the actual information.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So what IS the evidence? other than media waffle putting out MOD and British state press handouts for the herd to soak up 24/7, i remember Theresa May who was then Prime minister standing in Parliament can't remember if it was the same day or the day after the Salisbury incident saying Russia and Putin were responsible, that was before any investigation of what actually took place, that was no accident it was part of the anti Russian propaganda campaign the British State were involved in.

Again, the point I was making about evidence is that most evidence you don't actually have the evidence of. You have the word of the media.

So, who do you end up believing?

Teresa May gave a speech on the 12th March 2018 about the Skripals. The Skripals were poisoned on the 4th March. So, that's more than a week.

Russian spy: Highly likely Moscow behind attack, says Theresa May

The poison used was a military-grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia, says Theresa May.

www.bbc.com

"The PM said it was "highly likely" Russia was responsible for the Salisbury attack."

I'm sure after a week, the UK authorities had enough evidence to point to it being Russia.

Firstly they used Novichok, which was made by Russia. But they probably had a lot of evidence that they couldn't release because A) they needed to be more sure and B) they might not want to release certain things to see how Russia would respond.

It doesn't take a genius to look to Russia for the attempted murder of a former FSB agent who was working against Russia, does it?

Take a look at the soldier killed in Spain.

Russian pilot Maxim Kuzminov who defected to Ukraine 'shot dead' in Spain

Maxim Kuzminov - who fled Russia on a military helicopter - was found dead in Spain, according to reports.

www.bbc.com

"Russian pilot Maxim Kuzminov who defected to Ukraine 'shot dead' in Spain"

Just looking at this title, I'd say the chances of it being a Russian assassination at about 70%.

"There has been no official comment from Russian authorities, although on Tuesday, Sergei Naryshkin, director of Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service, said: "That traitor and criminal was a moral corpse.""

Doesn't look good for anyone else doing it after that quote, does it?

Perhaps we're at 90% now.

"A few months after Mr Kuzminov defected, Russian state TV showed a man said to be a Russian intelligence officer saying: "I don't think he'll live long enough to face trial.""

Or we could look at Prigozhin. Everyone, even braindead pigmies living on Mars knew he was going to get assassinated. You didn't need any evidence to know it was coming. And it came.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Russia usually use poison when the target is not available by other means and when significant collateral damage is more or less acceptable, as, say it was in the case of Khattab elimination. He was strongly guarded and with him more than twenty other terrorists had died. In the case of Skripal it was much more easer just to shoot him, and, of course, the collateral damage, especially a Russian citizen, was not acceptable.


He wasn't killed with "plutonium". It was reported that he was killed with Polonium-210. Both Russia and the USA use Polonium-210 in eliminations, but not as a poison, but as a part of neutron-emmiter (in Berillium case). Almost no traces (if you don't know were and how to search), clean death.
The British storywritters of the first season of "The Russian Poisoners" heard something, but, as usually, didn't understand it.


No. It's not coincidence. Just lack of fantasy of British storywriters of mockumentary TV-shows.


May be. May be not.


It was not official. Media love speculation, that's their bread.


Wow. Do you really think, that Putin is a dark wisard who can actually personally control every writing person or every media?


Why not allow media to earn some money? Public love sensations. People need different sources of information to train their critical thinking. Russia is more or less free country. You do what you want to do and the borders of "acceptable" are, may be, even more wider than in West.


Of course no. You are just parroting Western propaganda. What is worse - you do denie necesserity of the alternative points of view, open discussions, proper procedures (even if the Russians are involved), freedom of media, etc... You denie democracy, basically saying.

I'd say Russia uses certain very visible methods when the want to make a statement.

They wanted to make a statement about Litvinenko and Prigozhin, and they did.

Are you suggesting anyone other than Putin orders the death of Prigozhin?

Are you suggesting the British poisoned TWO former FSB personnel in their own country in order to do away with them because... because what? There's no speculation the UK wanted to get rid of these people.

And yes, much, much easier to shoot Skripal, much easier to shoot Livinenko. So why didn't they? Or, ask the same question about the British. It's WORSE for Britain to have such chemical attacks on your own soil. Has anything similar happened on Russian soil? You talk about Khattab and the reasons why. For the British, it makes no sense. He could have been shot by the British, and made to look like Russia just as easily and much less problematic for the people of Salisbury.

You talk about British "storywriters", but Russia is much more of a "storywriter".

Go on, explain the "Google maps photo" of a Ukrainian fighter shooting down the Malaysian Airlines plane.

Do I think that Putin can control the Russian media? Yes.

He's a dictator. China does, China controls every single word that happens in the Chinese media. Putin wanted to stop people talking about the Ukraine. He made a law saying if you opposed him, well, bye bye life, hello prison/assassination.

I deny democracy huh? What democracy are we talking about here? Please don't say Russian democracy, because I might piss myself laughing.

 

[Zavulon]

There's no evidence anything happens. We all end up relying on our information from someone else. How do you know Russia even exists? Maybe it's just made up by the British government to act as a bogey man. Perhaps there is no war in the Ukraine, maybe there is no Ukraine either.

There's a ministry of disinformation, and they're pumping all this stuff out to manipulate people.

Yeah, that must be it.

And how do you know that the whole world is really existing and its not just your hallucinations? Solipsism (as other philosophical conceptions) is logically irrefutable. Your own senses may lie to you. Say nothing about other people. You know, there is a saying: "Human tongue has two sides - one to lie and another to hide the truth". And you just have some rules how to reveal truth beneath the lie. We call it "critical thinking". It's not that difficult to find existence of Russia.

 

[frigidweirdo]

And how do you know that the whole world is really existing and its not just your hallucinations? Solipsism (as other philosophical conceptions) is logically irrefutable. Your own senses may lie to you. Say nothing about other people. You know, there is a saying: "Human tongue has two sides - one to lie and another to hide the truth". And you just have some rules how to reveal truth beneath the lie. We call it "critical thinking". It's not that difficult to find existence of Russia.

We don't. So.....

 

[Deadstick]

Again, the point I was making about evidence is that most evidence you don't actually have the evidence of. You have the word of the media.

So, who do you end up believing?

Teresa May gave a speech on the 12th March 2018 about the Skripals. The Skripals were poisoned on the 4th March. So, that's more than a week.

Russian spy: Highly likely Moscow behind attack, says Theresa May

The poison used was a military-grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia, says Theresa May.

www.bbc.com

"The PM said it was "highly likely" Russia was responsible for the Salisbury attack."

I'm sure after a week, the UK authorities had enough evidence to point to it being Russia.

Firstly they used Novichok, which was made by Russia. But they probably had a lot of evidence that they couldn't release because A) they needed to be more sure and B) they might not want to release certain things to see how Russia would respond.

It doesn't take a genius to look to Russia for the attempted murder of a former FSB agent who was working against Russia, does it?

Take a look at the soldier killed in Spain.

Russian pilot Maxim Kuzminov who defected to Ukraine 'shot dead' in Spain

Maxim Kuzminov - who fled Russia on a military helicopter - was found dead in Spain, according to reports.

www.bbc.com

"Russian pilot Maxim Kuzminov who defected to Ukraine 'shot dead' in Spain"

Just looking at this title, I'd say the chances of it being a Russian assassination at about 70%.

"There has been no official comment from Russian authorities, although on Tuesday, Sergei Naryshkin, director of Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service, said: "That traitor and criminal was a moral corpse.""

Doesn't look good for anyone else doing it after that quote, does it?

Perhaps we're at 90% now.

"A few months after Mr Kuzminov defected, Russian state TV showed a man said to be a Russian intelligence officer saying: "I don't think he'll live long enough to face trial.""

Or we could look at Prigozhin. Everyone, even braindead pigmies living on Mars knew he was going to get assassinated. You didn't need any evidence to know it was coming. And it came.

So it was a week later, the so called Novichok was produced in several Countries probably including Porton Down which by chance just happens to be down the road, also i ask again if Russia wanted Skripal dead they had years to kill him while he was in prison for treason, as for the defecting Russian pilot he deserved to be shot for treason he killed his Russian co pilot, Mossad kill people all the time in other Countries but they usually use false id and passports, as for Prigozhin we still don't know what that was about, what i do know is that Wagner convoy heading for Moscow could have been wiped out at anytime by the Russian air force, it wasn't,

 

[Zavulon]

I'd say Russia uses certain very visible methods when the want to make a statement.

A bullet in the head is not worse, and may be even better to make a statement.

They wanted to make a statement about Litvinenko and Prigozhin, and they did.

Really?

Are you suggesting anyone other than Putin orders the death of Prigozhin?

Whoever. For example, Biden. If Prigozin actually committed treason and worked for the USA, there was a good chance that after his fail he was ordered to be eliminated. But, without real evidence I'm not going to blame anyone.

Are you suggesting the British poisoned TWO former FSB personnel in their own country in order to do away with them because... because what? There's no speculation the UK wanted to get rid of these people.

Spy games are never obvious. Anyway, I'm not a xenophychologist to understand possible motivation of the Brits. May they simply needed a picture for the show.

And yes, much, much easier to shoot Skripal, much easier to shoot Livinenko. So why didn't they?

May be, the British storywritters wanted a picture.

Or, ask the same question about the British. It's WORSE for Britain to have such chemical attacks on your own soil. Has anything similar happened on Russian soil?

There are murders with poisons on the Russian soil.

You talk about Khattab and the reasons why. For the British, it makes no sense. He could have been shot by the British, and made to look like Russia just as easily and much less problematic for the people of Salisbury.

It makes no sense for Russia either. Why the British authorities decided to write this story and not another? Who knows? May be they are just incompetent.

You talk about British "storywriters", but Russia is much more of a "storywriter".

We all write stories. But this story is definitely British. Russian stories are quite different.

Go on, explain the "Google maps photo" of a Ukrainian fighter shooting down the Malaysian Airlines plane.

It was a fake.

Do I think that Putin can control the Russian media? Yes.

Do you think that he personally controls every movement of every media person?

He's a dictator. China does, China controls every single word that happens in the Chinese media.

Do you actually read Chinese or Russian media? I do. I know that they do not control everything. Nobody can.

Putin wanted to stop people talking about the Ukraine. He made a law saying if you opposed him, well, bye bye life, hello prison/assassination.

No. He do want people to talk about Ukraine. But yes, some points of view are forbidden.

I deny democracy huh? What democracy are we talking about here? Please don't say Russian democracy, because I might piss myself laughing.

It depends on your definition of the term.

 

[frigidweirdo]

So it was a week later, the so called Novichok was produced in several Countries probably including Porton Down which by chance just happens to be down the road, also i ask again if Russia wanted Skripal dead they had years to kill him while he was in prison for treason, as for the defecting Russian pilot he deserved to be shot for treason he killed his Russian co pilot, Mossad kill people all the time in other Countries but they usually use false id and passports, as for Prigozhin we still don't know what that was about, what i do know is that Wagner convoy heading for Moscow could have been wiped out at anytime by the Russian air force, it wasn't,

Yes, produced in several countries. And how many of those countries would want a former FSB agent actively working against Russia dead?

Er... one, RUSSIA.

And the problem was that Skripal worked for the US and was imprisoned for it. They used him for a swap, good deal. Then Skripal started working against the Russians. Bad deal. So they got rid of him when he became a problem again, didn't learn his lesson, let's show all the other FSB officers what happens when you go against Russia.

You say the Russia pilot deserved to be shot dead. The problem is it shows that Russia will be VERY OPEN about killing in other people's countries. Hence why I brought it up.

And Russia wants to show others it can kill them in other countries. Which is another reason to think they tried to kill Skripal and killed Litvinenko.

Are you suggesting Mossad tried to kill Skripal? No? Then why bring it up?

You don't know who killed Prigozhin? Fuck off.

 

[frigidweirdo]

A bullet in the head is not worse, and may be even better to make a statement.


Really?


Whoever. For example, Biden. If Prigozin actually committed treason and worked for the USA, there was a good chance that after his fail he was ordered to be eliminated. But, without real evidence I'm not going to blame anyone.


Spy games are never obvious. Anyway, I'm not a xenophychologist to understand possible motivation of the Brits. May they simply needed a picture for the show.



May be, the British storywritters wanted a picture.

There are murders with poisons on the Russian soil.

It makes no sense for Russia either. Why the British authorities decided to write this story and not another? Who knows? May be they are just incompetent.

We all write stories. But this story is definitely British. Russian stories are quite different.


It was a fake.

Do you think that he personally controls every movement of every media person?

Do you actually read Chinese or Russian media? I do. I know that they do not control everything. Nobody can.


No. He do want people to talk about Ukraine. But yes, some points of view are forbidden.

It depends on your definition of the term.

Most of what you're saying is crap and I can't be bothered to argue with you about it because you're just saying things. You're not backing anything up. Just "China doesn't control their media 100%", what are you talking about? If you don't understand why they do, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Deadstick]

Yes, produced in several countries. And how many of those countries would want a former FSB agent actively working against Russia dead?

Er... one, RUSSIA.

And the problem was that Skripal worked for the US and was imprisoned for it. They used him for a swap, good deal. Then Skripal started working against the Russians. Bad deal. So they got rid of him when he became a problem again, didn't learn his lesson, let's show all the other FSB officers what happens when you go against Russia.

You say the Russia pilot deserved to be shot dead. The problem is it shows that Russia will be VERY OPEN about killing in other people's countries. Hence why I brought it up.

And Russia wants to show others it can kill them in other countries. Which is another reason to think they tried to kill Skripal and killed Litvinenko.

Are you suggesting Mossad tried to kill Skripal? No? Then why bring it up?

You don't know who killed Prigozhin? Fuck off.

I am not saying Mossad killed Skripal i am just pointing out they have killed many people in other Countries including several Iranians, you also don't know who killed Litvenenko, even his father said it's bullshit to blame Russia, and Litvenenko was mixing with some very dodgy people in the UK including Berezovsky.

 

[Deadstick]

Most of what you're saying is crap and I can't be bothered to argue with you about it because you're just saying things. You're not backing anything up. Just "China doesn't control their media 100%", what are you talking about? If you don't understand why they do, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

You still never answered why the Russians would risk transporting Novichok through a international airport, have you seen the level of security at those airports, and i doubt Russian intelligence would use a couple of jokers like those who are in the frame walking down the street smiling into every CCTV camera they see, as for the media who the hell do you think is is in control of western media?

 

[Zavulon]

Yes, produced in several countries. And how many of those countries would want a former FSB agent actively working against Russia dead?

There is no such thing as "former FSB agent" as they often say. And if he was a mole - there were a lot of people interested in his elimination. As I said - spy games are never obvious.

Er... one, RUSSIA.

And the problem was that Skripal worked for the US and was imprisoned for it. They used him for a swap, good deal. Then Skripal started working against the Russians. Bad deal. So they got rid of him when he became a problem again, didn't learn his lesson, let's show all the other FSB officers what happens when you go against Russia.

If the target group of the story were FSB officers - it would be completely different. This story was definitely written for the western, mostly English-speaking non-military non-critically thinking TV-watchers.

You say the Russia pilot deserved to be shot dead. The problem is it shows that Russia will be VERY OPEN about killing in other people's countries. Hence why I brought it up.

Russia is very open to kill it's enemies anywhere. There is nothing new about it. And I see no problem here. It is good, not bad. It makes the world safer place for Russians. The question is that you are parroting stupid propaganda. Keyword is "stupid". It decrease the level of USMB discussion. As for me, I prefer smart conversations.

And Russia wants to show others it can kill them in other countries. Which is another reason to think they tried to kill Skripal and killed Litvinenko.

And what do you want to demonstrate us by this fit of Russophobia? Do you want to show us, that you can believe in any nonsense feed to you by your government without even a minimal attempt of critical thinking?

Are you suggesting Mossad tried to kill Skripal? No? Then why bring it up?

No evidence. Neither for GRU, nor for Mossad.

You don't know who killed Prigozhin? Fuck off.

I don't blame people without evidence.

 

[Zavulon]

Most of what you're saying is crap and I can't be bothered to argue with you about it because you're just saying things. You're not backing anything up.

What of what I said is need some backing up? That being "suspicious foreigner" isn't enough to be blamed in capital murder?

Just "China doesn't control their media 100%", what are you talking about? If you don't understand why they do, then you have no idea what you're talking about.

My Chinese is even more poor than my English, but I do read Chinese media and I have WeChat account. It's pretty easy to find alternative points of view and alternative sources of information (of course if you are interested in the proper discussions, not just in "saying things" or parroting official propaganda).

 

[frigidweirdo]

I am not saying Mossad killed Skripal i am just pointing out they have killed many people in other Countries including several Iranians, you also don't know who killed Litvenenko, even his father said it's bullshit to blame Russia, and Litvenenko was mixing with some very dodgy people in the UK including Berezovsky.

You think you have a choice of what to say if you live in Russia?

You think that two former FSB agents actively working against Russia, both get assassination attempts with pretty serious stuff and it's "we don't know who did it"???

 

[JohnDB]

Rationing food in Russia....but don't worry....everything is going to plan and it's going to be great.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You still never answered why the Russians would risk transporting Novichok through a international airport, have you seen the level of security at those airports, and i doubt Russian intelligence would use a couple of jokers like those who are in the frame walking down the street smiling into every CCTV camera they see, as for the media who the hell do you think is is in control of western media?

Why would they risk it? Because it's their job and it'll improve their careers. If they get caught, a few years in prison before being on the good end of a prisoner swap.

Thing is, security is hardest when LEAVING a country. When entering, especially if you have no big luggage is easy, just walk through the nothing to declare section. The UK is so lax when it comes to that kind of thing. If the novichok is on your person, there's a minimal chance they'll find it.

Doesn't look loke they're smiling into the camera, does it?

Doesn't look like he's smiling or looking into the camera, does it?

Doesn't look like they're smiling or looking into the camera, does it?




Here's an easier one, because it's a video.

And the second day, they don't walk to the cathedral, they walk away from the cathedral to some random place that just happens to be close to where the Skripals live. Then an hour later end up back at the train station, then go into Salisbury and the old part. They arrived just before midday, they left at 1:40, and in those 2 hours, they manage to spend 45 minutes in the suburbs.... even though they were there the day before.

Sure, make sense. NOT

 

[frigidweirdo]

There is no such thing as "former FSB agent" as they often say. And if he was a mole - there were a lot of people interested in his elimination. As I said - spy games are never obvious.

If the target group of the story were FSB officers - it would be completely different. This story was definitely written for the western, mostly English-speaking non-military non-critically thinking TV-watchers.


Russia is very open to kill it's enemies anywhere. There is nothing new about it. And I see no problem here. It is good, not bad. It makes the world safer place for Russians. The question is that you are parroting stupid propaganda. Keyword is "stupid". It decrease the level of USMB discussion. As for me, I prefer smart conversations.



And what do you want to demonstrate us by this fit of Russophobia? Do you want to show us, that you can believe in any nonsense feed to you by your government without even a minimal attempt of critical thinking?


No evidence. Neither for GRU, nor for Mossad.


I don't blame people without evidence.

You're not saying anything other than "no, you're wrong" without anything to support you. Typical Russia disinformation campaign.

 

[frigidweirdo]

What of what I said is need some backing up? That being "suspicious foreigner" isn't enough to be blamed in capital murder?


My Chinese is even more poor than my English, but I do read Chinese media and I have WeChat account. It's pretty easy to find alternative points of view and alternative sources of information (of course if you are interested in the proper discussions, not just in "saying things" or parroting official propaganda).

Okay, explain why two guy fly from one airport in Moscow, to another airport in London, and try and look like they're not traveling together, when they are. Then they fly back using completely different airports.

They get a hotel in London, nowhere near any transport hubs.

They go to Salisbury on the 3rd March and then leave pretty quickly, even though they supposedly wanted to go see the cathedral. Then go again the next day, walk in completely the wrong way, then walk towards the cathedral way, but only spend 2 hours in the city, with 45 minutes spend going suspiciously close to the Skripal's house.

You fly from MOSCOW to spend less than an hour in Salisbury town center?????? Bullshit.

 

[Litwin]