Another Alarmists Sacred Cow Bites the Dust

[SSDD]

For as long as I have been here, the PT extinction has been periodically held up as an example of a run away greenhouse effect killing off most of the life on the planet. Thinking people know this isn't true as the atmospheric CO2 levels had previously been much higher than they were during the period of transition between the Permian and the Triassic periods without any such run away greenhouse effect, but then aren't thinkers...they are alarmists...

Here are some examples of statements made on this board regarding the PT extinction event...and there have been many...

Now there are a many more papers confirming the very rapid rise during the PT Extinction Event. Very easy to find, just use Google Scholar, and put in "Evidence for the increase of GHGs during the PT Extinction Event". What a shame that an old millwright has to teach this to a supposedly educated man.

There are a number of times in the geological history of the earth that a waming became selfsustaining, the PT extinction was just one of them.

The record of the Milankovic Cycles show that. The longer geological record shows that rapidly adding GHGs to the atmosphere creates a very rapid warming, and that very rapid warming creates extinction events. PT event, as well as others.

Lordy, lordy, faux geologist, you are one dumb fuck. PT Extinction.

Anyway, somehow in today's bitterly partisan scientific environment, some actual science slipped past the gatekeepers, and it seems that that PT extinction wasn't due to a run away greenhouse effect, and very high temperatures at all....it was due to an ice age. All thinking people know that cold is the real killer.. Life on earth has always flourished during periods of warmth exceeding the present by a wide margin...cold, on the other hand makes life very hard...but then again, alarmists aren't thinkers...they are political hacks who will say whatever they think is necessary to scare people who don't agree with them whether it makes sense or not.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170306091927.htm

Cold extermination: One of greatest mass extinctions was due to an ice age and not to Earth's warming

The Earth has known several mass extinctions over the course of its history. One of the most important happened at the Permian-Triassic boundary 250 million years ago. Over 95% of marine species disappeared and, up until now, scientists have linked this extinction to a significant rise in Earth temperatures. But researchers have now discovered that this extinction took place during a short ice age which preceded the global climate warming. It's the first time that the various stages of a mass extinction have been accurately understood and that scientists have been able to assess the major role played by volcanic explosions in these climate processes.


Ice age, not warming, explains Permian-Triassic extinction event

Ice age, not warming, explains Permian-Triassic extinction event
The ice age lasted just 80,000 years, but the extreme cold was enough to kill off the majority of marine species.


https://www.princeton.edu/geosciences/people/schoene/pdf/7. Schaltegger_EPSL08.pdf

Precise U–Pb age constraints for end-Triassic mass extinction, its correlation to volcanism and Hettangian post-extinction recovery

 

[skookerasbil]

LOL......great thread dude. Interesting.

At this point, not sure why the AGW people even come in here anymore........they don't win at all in here anymore. Look at the threads. All of theirs fizzle out completely in a day or two........check the "replies" and "views" of the lefty sponsored threads. Laughable. These people don't even realize when they are being publically embarrassed.........its fascinating to me.

And they wonder why yesterday the EPA gets whacked because politically it can be so......because the case made by the religion has become so weak over the last 10 years, the public is not caring.

 

[jc456]

For as long as I have been here, the PT extinction has been periodically held up as an example of a run away greenhouse effect killing off most of the life on the planet. Thinking people know this isn't true as the atmospheric CO2 levels had previously been much higher than they were during the period of transition between the Permian and the Triassic periods without any such run away greenhouse effect, but then aren't thinkers...they are alarmists...

Here are some examples of statements made on this board regarding the PT extinction event...and there have been many...

Now there are a many more papers confirming the very rapid rise during the PT Extinction Event. Very easy to find, just use Google Scholar, and put in "Evidence for the increase of GHGs during the PT Extinction Event". What a shame that an old millwright has to teach this to a supposedly educated man.

There are a number of times in the geological history of the earth that a waming became selfsustaining, the PT extinction was just one of them.

The record of the Milankovic Cycles show that. The longer geological record shows that rapidly adding GHGs to the atmosphere creates a very rapid warming, and that very rapid warming creates extinction events. PT event, as well as others.

Lordy, lordy, faux geologist, you are one dumb fuck. PT Extinction.

Anyway, somehow in today's bitterly partisan scientific environment, some actual science slipped past the gatekeepers, and it seems that that PT extinction wasn't due to a run away greenhouse effect, and very high temperatures at all....it was due to an ice age. All thinking people know that cold is the real killer.. Life on earth has always flourished during periods of warmth exceeding the present by a wide margin...cold, on the other hand makes life very hard...but then again, alarmists aren't thinkers...they are political hacks who will say whatever they think is necessary to scare people who don't agree with them whether it makes sense or not.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170306091927.htm

Cold extermination: One of greatest mass extinctions was due to an ice age and not to Earth's warming

The Earth has known several mass extinctions over the course of its history. One of the most important happened at the Permian-Triassic boundary 250 million years ago. Over 95% of marine species disappeared and, up until now, scientists have linked this extinction to a significant rise in Earth temperatures. But researchers have now discovered that this extinction took place during a short ice age which preceded the global climate warming. It's the first time that the various stages of a mass extinction have been accurately understood and that scientists have been able to assess the major role played by volcanic explosions in these climate processes.


Ice age, not warming, explains Permian-Triassic extinction event

Ice age, not warming, explains Permian-Triassic extinction event
The ice age lasted just 80,000 years, but the extreme cold was enough to kill off the majority of marine species.


https://www.princeton.edu/geosciences/people/schoene/pdf/7. Schaltegger_EPSL08.pdf

Precise U–Pb age constraints for end-Triassic mass extinction, its correlation to volcanism and Hettangian post-extinction recovery

As I think logically about blaming extreme heat as a reason for distinction, then the ocean waters would have started to dry up and would have eventually killed the planet much like Mars. It simply isn't logical to think that an extinction occurred due to extreme heat when we're still here. Every extinction period would have been due to extreme cold to save the contents of the planet.

 

[SSDD]

For as long as I have been here, the PT extinction has been periodically held up as an example of a run away greenhouse effect killing off most of the life on the planet. Thinking people know this isn't true as the atmospheric CO2 levels had previously been much higher than they were during the period of transition between the Permian and the Triassic periods without any such run away greenhouse effect, but then aren't thinkers...they are alarmists...

Here are some examples of statements made on this board regarding the PT extinction event...and there have been many...

Now there are a many more papers confirming the very rapid rise during the PT Extinction Event. Very easy to find, just use Google Scholar, and put in "Evidence for the increase of GHGs during the PT Extinction Event". What a shame that an old millwright has to teach this to a supposedly educated man.

There are a number of times in the geological history of the earth that a waming became selfsustaining, the PT extinction was just one of them.

The record of the Milankovic Cycles show that. The longer geological record shows that rapidly adding GHGs to the atmosphere creates a very rapid warming, and that very rapid warming creates extinction events. PT event, as well as others.

Lordy, lordy, faux geologist, you are one dumb fuck. PT Extinction.

Anyway, somehow in today's bitterly partisan scientific environment, some actual science slipped past the gatekeepers, and it seems that that PT extinction wasn't due to a run away greenhouse effect, and very high temperatures at all....it was due to an ice age. All thinking people know that cold is the real killer.. Life on earth has always flourished during periods of warmth exceeding the present by a wide margin...cold, on the other hand makes life very hard...but then again, alarmists aren't thinkers...they are political hacks who will say whatever they think is necessary to scare people who don't agree with them whether it makes sense or not.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170306091927.htm

Cold extermination: One of greatest mass extinctions was due to an ice age and not to Earth's warming

The Earth has known several mass extinctions over the course of its history. One of the most important happened at the Permian-Triassic boundary 250 million years ago. Over 95% of marine species disappeared and, up until now, scientists have linked this extinction to a significant rise in Earth temperatures. But researchers have now discovered that this extinction took place during a short ice age which preceded the global climate warming. It's the first time that the various stages of a mass extinction have been accurately understood and that scientists have been able to assess the major role played by volcanic explosions in these climate processes.


Ice age, not warming, explains Permian-Triassic extinction event

Ice age, not warming, explains Permian-Triassic extinction event
The ice age lasted just 80,000 years, but the extreme cold was enough to kill off the majority of marine species.


https://www.princeton.edu/geosciences/people/schoene/pdf/7. Schaltegger_EPSL08.pdf

Precise U–Pb age constraints for end-Triassic mass extinction, its correlation to volcanism and Hettangian post-extinction recovery

As I think logically about blaming extreme heat as a reason for distinction, then the ocean waters would have started to dry up and would have eventually killed the planet much like Mars. It simply isn't logical to think that an extinction occurred due to extreme heat when we're still here. Every extinction period would have been due to extreme cold to save the contents of the planet.

If you want to kill off a lot of living things with climate...cold is the way to go...not warmth.

 

[Old Rocks]

U/Pb Zircon Geochronology and Tempo of the End-Permian Mass Extinction

1. S. A. Bowring*,
2. D. H. Erwin,
3. Y. G. Jin,
4. M. W. Martin,
5. K. Davidek,
6. W. Wang

Abstract
The mass extinction at the end of the Permian was the most profound in the history of life. Fundamental to understanding its cause is determining the tempo and duration of the extinction. Uranium/lead zircon data from Late Permian and Early Triassic rocks from south China place the Permian-Triassic boundary at 251.4 ± 0.3 million years ago. Biostratigraphic controls from strata intercalated with ash beds below the boundary indicate that the Changhsingian pulse of the end-Permian extinction, corresponding to the disappearance of about 85 percent of marine species, lasted less than 1 million years. At Meishan, a negative excursion in δ13C at the boundary had a duration of 165,000 years or less, suggesting a catastrophic addition of light carbon.

U/Pb Zircon Geochronology and Tempo of the End-Permian Mass Extinction | Science

There was a very strong warming event after the volcanic cooling. A double whammy. Not the first time we see this in the past. Much more recently, 43 of 56 species on large mammals died out in the Younger Dryas in North America. Some died when things rapidly cooled, and the rest died about a thousand years later when it warmed equally rapidly. Rapid change in either direction represents change that is too rapid for organisms to adapt to.

 

[Old Rocks]

Permian-Triassic extinction: Organic δ13C evidence from British Columbia, Canada

1. K. Wang12,
2. H. H. J. Geldsetzer1 and
3. H. R. Krouse2

Abstract
The Permian-Triassic (P-T) extinction is documented geochemically in a marine sequence deposited in a basinal setting at Williston Lake, northeastern British Columbia, by using elemental and isotopic organic geochemical data from well-preserved sedimentary rocks. The δ13C values of kerogens in the rocks exhibit a sudden shift at the P-T boundary from latest Permian values of -29‰ ± 1‰ (PDB) to a minimum of -32.6‰ 2 m above the P-T boundary and then back to the Permian value 4 m above the P-T boundary. After considering various factors, we conclude that reduced surface-water primary productivity following the P-T mass extinction is largely responsible for the observed δ13C shift. The abruptness of the δ13C shift in a sequence of continuous deposition argues that the strong pulse of extinction at the P-T boundary was sudden rather than gradual. Marine primary productivity did not recover until at least 50 to 100 ka after the time of the P-T boundary, so a higher atmospheric pCO2 in the earliest Triassic may have resulted from buildup of dissolved CO2 owing to reduced photosynthetic carbon demand in the surface water.

Permian-Triassic extinction: Organic δ13C evidence from British Columbia, Canada

Again, a very strong pulse of CO2, which creates a very rapid warming.

 

[SSDD]

dream on old rock....cold killed off the oceans...not warmth...but no amount of reality will ever penetrate those glassy eyes of yours, nor will it ever be heard through your incessant chanting....you believe....you are a zealot.....you belong to a cult renowned the world over for its religious fervor...

 

[Old Rocks]

Abrupt and Gradual Extinction Among Late Permian Land Vertebrates in the Karoo Basin, South Africa

1. Peter D. Ward1,*,
2. Jennifer Botha3,
3. Roger Buick2,
4. Michiel O. De Kock5,
5. Douglas H. Erwin6,
6. Geoffrey H. Garrison2,
7. Joseph L. Kirschvink4,
8. Roger Smith3

+ See all authors and affiliations

Science 04 Feb 2005:
Vol. 307, Issue 5710, pp. 709-714
DOI: 10.1126/science.1107068


Abstract
The Karoo basin of South Africa exposes a succession of Upper Permian to Lower Triassic terrestrial strata containing abundant terrestrial vertebrate fossils. Paleomagnetic/magnetostratigraphic and carbon-isotope data allow sections to be correlated across the basin. With this stratigraphy, the vertebrate fossil data show a gradual extinction in the Upper Permian punctuated by an enhanced extinction pulse at the Permian-Triassic boundary interval, particularly among the dicynodont therapsids, coinciding with negative carbon-isotope anomalies.

Yes, there is evidence of a period of cold, followed by a period that was very warm. A whiplash effect, and evidence of major storms during the transition.

 

[Old Rocks]

Climate changes caused by degassing of sediments during the emplacement of large igneous provinces

1. Clément Ganino1,* and
2. Nicholas T. Arndt1

+Author Affiliations

1. ↵*E-mail: [email protected]

Abstract
Most mass extinctions during the last 500 m.y. coincide with eruptions of large igneous provinces (LIPs). The Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction was synchronous with the Deccan flood volcanism, the Permian-Triassic extinction with the eruption of the enormous Siberian traps, and the end-Guadalupian extinction with the Emeishan volcanic province. The causal link remains disputed, however, and many LIPs apparently had no significant impact on the biosphere. Here we show that a key control on the destructive consequences of LIP emplacement is the type of sedimentary rock in basins beneath the flood basalts. Contact metamorphism around intrusions in dolomite, evaporite, coal, or organic-rich shale generates large quantities of greenhouse and toxic gases (CO2, CH4, SO2), which subsequently vent to the atmosphere and cause global warming and mass extinctions. The release of sediment-derived gases had a far greater impact on the environment than the emission of magmatic gases.

Climate changes caused by degassing of sediments during the emplacement of large igneous provinces

Volcano's cool the earth, greenhouse gases warm it. Now the affect of a LIP eruption impinging on coal and black shale would be to put very large amounts of CO2 and CH4 into the atmosphere. The Siberian Trapps did impinge on vast coal deposits. Was there initial cold? Likely. Followed by a very warm period. A combination that killed about 95% of the species then living.

 

[Old Rocks]

dream on old rock....cold killed off the oceans...not warmth...but no amount of reality will ever penetrate those glassy eyes of yours, nor will it ever be heard through your incessant chanting....you believe....you are a zealot.....you belong to a cult renowned the world over for its religious fervor...

Are the Arctic and Anarctic waters devoid of life? They are very cold, yet life thrives there. It took a combination of the very elevated CO2 levels creating anoxic oceans, with the increased production of hydrogen sulfide, a very poisonous gas to most life.

 

[jc456]

dream on old rock....cold killed off the oceans...not warmth...but no amount of reality will ever penetrate those glassy eyes of yours, nor will it ever be heard through your incessant chanting....you believe....you are a zealot.....you belong to a cult renowned the world over for its religious fervor...

Are the Arctic and Anarctic waters devoid of life? They are very cold, yet life thrives there. It took a combination of the very elevated CO2 levels creating anoxic oceans, with the increased production of hydrogen sulfide, a very poisonous gas to most life.

if it got that warm, why didn't the oceans evaporate?

 

[SSDD]

dream on old rock....cold killed off the oceans...not warmth...but no amount of reality will ever penetrate those glassy eyes of yours, nor will it ever be heard through your incessant chanting....you believe....you are a zealot.....you belong to a cult renowned the world over for its religious fervor...

Are the Arctic and Anarctic waters devoid of life? They are very cold, yet life thrives there. It took a combination of the very elevated CO2 levels creating anoxic oceans, with the increased production of hydrogen sulfide, a very poisonous gas to most life.

if it got that warm, why didn't the oceans evaporate?

Deny on rocks....the fact is that all those pal reviewed studies were wrong....The PT extinction was caused by an ice age....with all that atmospheric CO2....

 

[Crick]

Really? Where the fuck did you get that one?

The Permian–Triassic (P–Tr) extinction event, colloquially known as the Great Dying,[2] the End Permian or the Great Permian Extinction,[3][4] occurred about 252 Ma (million years) ago,[5] forming the boundary between the Permian and Triassic geologic periods, as well as the Paleozoic and Mesozoic eras. It is the Earth's most severe known extinction event, with up to 96% of all marine species[6][7] and 70% of terrestrial vertebrate species becoming extinct.[8] It is the only known mass extinction of insects.[9][10] Some 57% of all families and 83% of all genera became extinct. Because so much biodiversity was lost, the recovery of life on Earth took significantly longer than after any other extinction event,[6] possibly up to 10 million years,[11] although studies in Bear Lake County near the Idaho city of Paris showed a quick and dynamic rebound in a marine ecosystem, illustrating the remarkable resiliency of life.[12]

There is evidence for one to three distinct pulses, or phases, of extinction.[8][13][14][15] Suggested mechanisms for the latter include one or more large meteor impact events, massive volcanism such as that of the Siberian Traps, and the ensuing coal or gas fires and explosions,[16] and a runaway greenhouse effect triggered by sudden release of methane from the sea floor due to methane clathrate dissociation or methane-producing microbes known as methanogens;[17] possible contributing gradual changes include sea-level change, increasing anoxia, increasing aridity, and a shift in ocean circulation driven by climate change.

Wikipedia

Where I see NOTHING in the way of a fucking ice age you fool.

 

[SSDD]

Guess you didn't read the information provided in the OP...not surprising.

 

[Crick]

Did you note the studies (plural) that Rocks provided? You do have a study that concludes as stated. Unfortunately for you, that is not yet the consensus opinion of paleontologists. When it is, we'll have something to talk about.

 

[SSDD]

Did you note the studies (plural) that Rocks provided? You do have a study that concludes as stated. Unfortunately for you, that is not yet the consensus opinion of paleontologists. When it is, we'll have something to talk about.

Consensus is a political term...and unfortunately, so long as you think that science and politics are comparable, you will be in the wrong...and if you look back through history, the consensus has almost always been wrong...if you are looking for wrong, look to the consensus, the odds are stacked heavily in your favor that if you want wrong, the consensus will provide it for you.

 

[Crick]

Consensus is a synonym for majority opinion. The consensus in science has certainly been more often correct than anything you've been working with.

 

[westwall]

For as long as I have been here, the PT extinction has been periodically held up as an example of a run away greenhouse effect killing off most of the life on the planet. Thinking people know this isn't true as the atmospheric CO2 levels had previously been much higher than they were during the period of transition between the Permian and the Triassic periods without any such run away greenhouse effect, but then aren't thinkers...they are alarmists...

Here are some examples of statements made on this board regarding the PT extinction event...and there have been many...

Now there are a many more papers confirming the very rapid rise during the PT Extinction Event. Very easy to find, just use Google Scholar, and put in "Evidence for the increase of GHGs during the PT Extinction Event". What a shame that an old millwright has to teach this to a supposedly educated man.

There are a number of times in the geological history of the earth that a waming became selfsustaining, the PT extinction was just one of them.

The record of the Milankovic Cycles show that. The longer geological record shows that rapidly adding GHGs to the atmosphere creates a very rapid warming, and that very rapid warming creates extinction events. PT event, as well as others.

Lordy, lordy, faux geologist, you are one dumb fuck. PT Extinction.

Anyway, somehow in today's bitterly partisan scientific environment, some actual science slipped past the gatekeepers, and it seems that that PT extinction wasn't due to a run away greenhouse effect, and very high temperatures at all....it was due to an ice age. All thinking people know that cold is the real killer.. Life on earth has always flourished during periods of warmth exceeding the present by a wide margin...cold, on the other hand makes life very hard...but then again, alarmists aren't thinkers...they are political hacks who will say whatever they think is necessary to scare people who don't agree with them whether it makes sense or not.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170306091927.htm

Cold extermination: One of greatest mass extinctions was due to an ice age and not to Earth's warming

The Earth has known several mass extinctions over the course of its history. One of the most important happened at the Permian-Triassic boundary 250 million years ago. Over 95% of marine species disappeared and, up until now, scientists have linked this extinction to a significant rise in Earth temperatures. But researchers have now discovered that this extinction took place during a short ice age which preceded the global climate warming. It's the first time that the various stages of a mass extinction have been accurately understood and that scientists have been able to assess the major role played by volcanic explosions in these climate processes.


Ice age, not warming, explains Permian-Triassic extinction event

Ice age, not warming, explains Permian-Triassic extinction event
The ice age lasted just 80,000 years, but the extreme cold was enough to kill off the majority of marine species.


https://www.princeton.edu/geosciences/people/schoene/pdf/7. Schaltegger_EPSL08.pdf

Precise U–Pb age constraints for end-Triassic mass extinction, its correlation to volcanism and Hettangian post-extinction recovery

There is actual physical evidence for a global ice age. There has never been one iota of physical evidence to support the idea that run away heat caused it. The only place that it ever existed was in the fevered imaginations of global warming fanatics.

 

[Crick]

The evidence from the PT boundary indicating high, sudden CO2 was not postulating death by heat, but by pH change you ignorant twit. The point has always been, and this has been the reason for bringing it up on this board in almost every case, the the rate of pH change taking place NOW is actually faster than that seen during the PT. The problem of course is that rapid CO2 rise allows pH to take radical swings downward because there is insufficient time to buffer the situation with weathering of limestone ashore. CO2 has taken huge swings in the past but the ocean's pH did not respond as current trends would have you think because the changes took so long compared to the current dynamic.

 

[SSDD]

The evidence from the PT boundary indicating high, sudden CO2 was not postulating death by heat, but by pH change you ignorant twit. The point has always been, and this has been the reason for bringing it up on this board in almost every case, the the rate of pH change taking place NOW is actually faster than that seen during the PT. The problem of course is that rapid CO2 rise allows pH to take radical swings downward because there is insufficient time to buffer the situation with weathering of limestone ashore. CO2 has taken huge swings in the past but the ocean's pH did not respond as current trends would have you think because the changes took so long compared to the current dynamic.

No actual evidence...just more fake science by the glassy eyed chanting cult.