Angela's Ashes: How Merkel Failed Greece and Europe

[Disir]

Angela Merkel was already leaving for the weekend when she received the call that would change everything. The chancellor had just had a grueling day, spending all of it in meetings with Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras -- sometimes as part of a larger group, and others with only him and French President François Hollande.

They discussed debt restructuring and billions of euros in additional investments. When it comes to issues important to him, Tsipras can be exhaustingly stubborn. In the end, though, Merkel was left with the feeling the EU summit was the milestone that could quite possibly mark a turn for the better.
Martin Schulz, president of the European Parliament, had pulled Merkel aside in Brussels and whispered to her that Tsipras was seeking allies in the opposition, with whom he could push a reform program through Greek parliament even without the consent of the radical wing of Syriza, if necessary. "Can you help me?" Tsipras had asked Schulz. Schulz has good connections in the Social Democratic PASOK Party.

But when Merkel returned to Berlin, she received a call from Tsipras. He told her that he was not interested in a deal, but that he intended to hold a referendum in Greece first. A short time later, he tweeted: "With a clear 'NO,' we send a message that Greece is not going to surrender."

Merkel is known for not being easily fazed. She has made it this far in part because she has firm control of her emotions. And she remained silent throughout the weekend. But at a Monday meeting of leading members of her Christian Democratic Union (CDU), she hinted at the depth of her disappointment in Tsipras. His policies are "hard and ideological," she said, adding that he is steering his country into a brick wall "with his eyes wide open."

Merkel s Leadership Has Failed in the Greece Crisis - SPIEGEL ONLINE

The rest of the article is critical of her lost opportunities and approach. I am not a Merkel fan.

 

[montelatici]

Austerity did not work. Trying it again is the definition of madness.

 

[Disir]

Nope.

 

[SAYIT]

Austerity did not work. Trying it again is the definition of madness.

Lending Greece money has not worked but you are free to try it again ... with your money. Europeans, it seems, are no longer willing dupes in the Greek Tragedy.

 

[TheOldSchool]

This is "USMB." Not "Let's give a fuck about Europe."

 

[SAYIT]

Angela Merkel was already leaving for the weekend when she received the call that would change everything. The chancellor had just had a grueling day, spending all of it in meetings with Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras -- sometimes as part of a larger group, and others with only him and French President François Hollande.

They discussed debt restructuring and billions of euros in additional investments. When it comes to issues important to him, Tsipras can be exhaustingly stubborn. In the end, though, Merkel was left with the feeling the EU summit was the milestone that could quite possibly mark a turn for the better.
Martin Schulz, president of the European Parliament, had pulled Merkel aside in Brussels and whispered to her that Tsipras was seeking allies in the opposition, with whom he could push a reform program through Greek parliament even without the consent of the radical wing of Syriza, if necessary. "Can you help me?" Tsipras had asked Schulz. Schulz has good connections in the Social Democratic PASOK Party.

But when Merkel returned to Berlin, she received a call from Tsipras. He told her that he was not interested in a deal, but that he intended to hold a referendum in Greece first. A short time later, he tweeted: "With a clear 'NO,' we send a message that Greece is not going to surrender."

Merkel is known for not being easily fazed. She has made it this far in part because she has firm control of her emotions. And she remained silent throughout the weekend. But at a Monday meeting of leading members of her Christian Democratic Union (CDU), she hinted at the depth of her disappointment in Tsipras. His policies are "hard and ideological," she said, adding that he is steering his country into a brick wall "with his eyes wide open."

Merkel s Leadership Has Failed in the Greece Crisis - SPIEGEL ONLINE

The rest of the article is critical of her lost opportunities and approach. I am not a Merkel fan.

The bit of the article you posted makes clear the duplicity of Tsipras. No wonder so many EZ officials distrust him. He pretends that his election and the referendum are a sign from God that Greece's creditors must forgive existing loans and "lend" more. Of course, with no intention of ever repaying any loans they aren't really loans at all. Tsipras ignores the plight of those from whom he demands more. Germany has been cast as the heavy in this Greek Tragedy but other countries (France, Spain & Italy) can little afford another haircut at the hand of the Deadbeat Greeks who regularly have their hand out but never even try to live up to their end of the bargain.

 

[Disir]

Angela Merkel was already leaving for the weekend when she received the call that would change everything. The chancellor had just had a grueling day, spending all of it in meetings with Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras -- sometimes as part of a larger group, and others with only him and French President François Hollande.

They discussed debt restructuring and billions of euros in additional investments. When it comes to issues important to him, Tsipras can be exhaustingly stubborn. In the end, though, Merkel was left with the feeling the EU summit was the milestone that could quite possibly mark a turn for the better.
Martin Schulz, president of the European Parliament, had pulled Merkel aside in Brussels and whispered to her that Tsipras was seeking allies in the opposition, with whom he could push a reform program through Greek parliament even without the consent of the radical wing of Syriza, if necessary. "Can you help me?" Tsipras had asked Schulz. Schulz has good connections in the Social Democratic PASOK Party.

But when Merkel returned to Berlin, she received a call from Tsipras. He told her that he was not interested in a deal, but that he intended to hold a referendum in Greece first. A short time later, he tweeted: "With a clear 'NO,' we send a message that Greece is not going to surrender."

Merkel is known for not being easily fazed. She has made it this far in part because she has firm control of her emotions. And she remained silent throughout the weekend. But at a Monday meeting of leading members of her Christian Democratic Union (CDU), she hinted at the depth of her disappointment in Tsipras. His policies are "hard and ideological," she said, adding that he is steering his country into a brick wall "with his eyes wide open."

Merkel s Leadership Has Failed in the Greece Crisis - SPIEGEL ONLINE

The rest of the article is critical of her lost opportunities and approach. I am not a Merkel fan.

The bit of the article you posted makes clear the duplicity of Tsipras. No wonder so many EZ officials distrust him. He pretends that his election and the referendum are a sign from God that Greece's creditors must forgive existing loans and "lend" more. Of course, with no intention of ever repaying any loans they aren't really loans at all. Tsipras ignores the plight of those from whom he demands more. Germany has been cast as the heavy in this Greek Tragedy but other countries (France, Spain & Italy) can little afford another haircut at the hand of the Deadbeat Greeks who regularly have their hand out but never even try to live up to their end of the bargain.

The rest of the article makes clear that she had opportunities that she ignored.

 

[Disir]

This is "USMB." Not "Let's give a fuck about Europe."

Did you miss a turn? I think the 599 threads on "Why Hillary rocks" and "Why Trump is awesome" are down the hall and to the Right.

 

[montelatici]

Austerity did not work. Trying it again is the definition of madness.

Lending Greece money has not worked but you are free to try it again ... with your money. Europeans, it seems, are no longer willing dupes in the Greek Tragedy.

Who is calling for the lending of more money to Greece? What kind of moron are you.

 

[bendog]

Greece is in the classic debt trap. And it maybe a worldwide problem, with Greece just being the epicenter.

Stock market turmoil and the global debt trap - The Washington Post

But in Greece, the private sector is not growing, and the pensioners are actually helping support un/under-employed. Germany took Greece's debt because Germany built stuff the Greeks consumed. Now Germany says "you misbehaved." Well, that's true. But, didn't Germany as well?

 

[SAYIT]

Austerity did not work. Trying it again is the definition of madness.

Lending Greece money has not worked but you are free to try it again ... with your money. Europeans, it seems, are no longer willing dupes in the Greek Tragedy.

Who is calling for the lending of more money to Greece? What kind of moron are you.

The kind that makes one look a fool who doesn't understand that my post ridicules those who would lend more to Greece. Yeah ... you dat fool, Fool.

 

[SAYIT]

The bit of the article you posted makes clear the duplicity of Tsipras. No wonder so many EZ officials distrust him. He pretends that his election and the referendum are a sign from God that Greece's creditors must forgive existing loans and "lend" more. Of course, with no intention of ever repaying any loans they aren't really loans at all. Tsipras ignores the plight of those from whom he demands more. Germany has been cast as the heavy in this Greek Tragedy but other countries (France, Spain & Italy) can little afford another haircut at the hand of the Deadbeat Greeks who regularly have their hand out but never even try to live up to their end of the bargain.

The rest of the article makes clear that she had opportunities that she ignored.

Greece is in the classic debt trap. And it maybe a worldwide problem, with Greece just being the epicenter.

Stock market turmoil and the global debt trap - The Washington Post

But in Greece, the private sector is not growing, and the pensioners are actually helping support un/under-employed. Germany took Greece's debt because Germany built stuff the Greeks consumed. Now Germany says "you misbehaved." Well, that's true. But, didn't Germany as well?

Once more for the terminally dense: Germany has been cast as the convenient heavy in this Greek Tragedy but other countries which can little afford another haircut (France, Spain & Italy) at the hands of the Deadbeat Greeks who regularly have their hand out but never even try to live up to their end of the bargains. I assure you other poor EZ states are not happy about the resources (time & cash) that Princess Greece demands of Europe's union.

 

[bendog]

Terminally dense? Try a mirror. I said both are part of the cause, and that would apply to Spain and Italy as well. I think France is more or less caught up in a lack of growth. The question is "austerity." The growth, such as it is, is not coming from countries that committed to austerity. As the Samuelson link provides, if all you do is cut ... you get deflation. Germany is not necessarily the heavy, but Frau Nein's economic policy may not be the way to go.

If Greece really reformed it's pension system, and committed to free markets, the question wouldn't be focused on it's debt but rather on how to get a private sector production economy going. And there is a question even there of how Germany's export fueled economy can allow that to happen.

 

[SAYIT]

Terminally dense? Try a mirror. I said both are part of the cause, and that would apply to Spain and Italy as well. I think France is more or less caught up in a lack of growth. The question is "austerity." The growth, such as it is, is not coming from countries that committed to austerity. As the Samuelson link provides, if all you do is cut ... you get deflation. Germany is not necessarily the heavy, but Frau Nein's economic policy may not be the way to go.

If Greece really reformed it's pension system, and committed to free markets, the question wouldn't be focused on it's debt but rather on how to get a private sector production economy going. And there is a question even there of how Germany's export fueled economy can allow that to happen.

The point remains that bond issues intended to jump start Greece's economy went instead to public consumption (gov't salaries & pensions) and when that hit the wall a tight haircut for bondholders and 2 foreign bailouts swiftly followed, all without serious gov't spending cuts or challenges to their lax tax collection efforts. Whichever way this goes (yes or oxi) Greeks will suffer but successive duly-elected gov'ts (Greeks bearing gifts) have been kicking this can for decades. Germany - and by extension Merkel - is not the bad guy here but that is exactly how loony lefties have desperately tried to paint this Greek Tragedy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/10/b...lt-aftermath.html?rref=business/international

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/09/w...end-droves-afraid-losing-savings-bailout.html

 

[theHawk]

As I predicted the lefties in the EU have howled, whined, and cried about how mean the fiscally conservative Germans are. They've been demanding that Germany give debt relief to Greece, regardless of how stupid it would be.

Greek deal in sight as Germany bows to huge global pressure for debt relief - Telegraph

 

[bendog]

As I predicted the lefties in the EU have howled, whined, and cried about how mean the fiscally conservative Germans are. They've been demanding that Germany give debt relief to Greece, regardless of how stupid it would be.

Greek deal in sight as Germany bows to huge global pressure for debt relief - Telegraph

Yeah, I'm still uncertain as to how far Greece is willing to come on privatization and spending reform. On one hand, telling them to end pensions when a private economy is not working is not only unreasonable but a practical impossibility, but I still question whether they are committed to a market economy with the state backing away.

Having Greece leave the Eurozone is politically and militarily pretty scary though.

 

[SAYIT]

As I predicted the lefties in the EU have howled, whined, and cried about how mean the fiscally conservative Germans are. They've been demanding that Germany give debt relief to Greece, regardless of how stupid it would be.

Greek deal in sight as Germany bows to huge global pressure for debt relief - Telegraph

Yeah, I'm still uncertain as to how far Greece is willing to come on privatization and spending reform. On one hand, telling them to end pensions when a private economy is not working is not only unreasonable but a practical impossibility, but I still question whether they are committed to a market economy with the state backing away.

Having Greece leave the Eurozone is politically and militarily pretty scary though.

I'm not convinced Tsipras is planning to do more than promise his creditors whatever they want to hear and then do a work-around. I mean, would you buy a used car from the guy?
Just curious ... who has been telling the Greeks they must "end pensions?"

 

[Disir]

As I predicted the lefties in the EU have howled, whined, and cried about how mean the fiscally conservative Germans are. They've been demanding that Germany give debt relief to Greece, regardless of how stupid it would be.

Greek deal in sight as Germany bows to huge global pressure for debt relief - Telegraph

Yeah, I'm still uncertain as to how far Greece is willing to come on privatization and spending reform. On one hand, telling them to end pensions when a private economy is not working is not only unreasonable but a practical impossibility, but I still question whether they are committed to a market economy with the state backing away.

Having Greece leave the Eurozone is politically and militarily pretty scary though.

I don't agree. In fact, I think Greece should have exited before.

 

[bendog]

As I predicted the lefties in the EU have howled, whined, and cried about how mean the fiscally conservative Germans are. They've been demanding that Germany give debt relief to Greece, regardless of how stupid it would be.

Greek deal in sight as Germany bows to huge global pressure for debt relief - Telegraph

Yeah, I'm still uncertain as to how far Greece is willing to come on privatization and spending reform. On one hand, telling them to end pensions when a private economy is not working is not only unreasonable but a practical impossibility, but I still question whether they are committed to a market economy with the state backing away.

Having Greece leave the Eurozone is politically and militarily pretty scary though.

I don't agree. In fact, I think Greece should have exited before.

Economically, they probably should have defaulted and said to hell with it, but I'm not sure they have the capitalist ideal.

I think Argentina still represents the model. Can you do a default without having "vulture creditors" who will hold out for less a haircut than others?
Argentina s debt crisis seen rumbling on until 2015 election

My comments on Greece leaving the Eurozone were more towards security issues. With refugees (and terrorists) coming over the Med Sea. With Turkey embroiled not just with ISIS and Assad but also with the Kurds ... and US gop congressmen calling for the US to give the Kurds heavy weapons ... like artillery, that could be used against Turkey.

 

[Disir]

As I predicted the lefties in the EU have howled, whined, and cried about how mean the fiscally conservative Germans are. They've been demanding that Germany give debt relief to Greece, regardless of how stupid it would be.

Greek deal in sight as Germany bows to huge global pressure for debt relief - Telegraph

Yeah, I'm still uncertain as to how far Greece is willing to come on privatization and spending reform. On one hand, telling them to end pensions when a private economy is not working is not only unreasonable but a practical impossibility, but I still question whether they are committed to a market economy with the state backing away.

Having Greece leave the Eurozone is politically and militarily pretty scary though.

I don't agree. In fact, I think Greece should have exited before.

Economically, they probably should have defaulted and said to hell with it, but I'm not sure they have the capitalist ideal.

I think Argentina still represents the model. Can you do a default without having "vulture creditors" who will hold out for less a haircut than others?
Argentina s debt crisis seen rumbling on until 2015 election

My comments on Greece leaving the Eurozone were more towards security issues. With refugees (and terrorists) coming over the Med Sea. With Turkey embroiled not just with ISIS and Assad but also with the Kurds ... and US gop congressmen calling for the US to give the Kurds heavy weapons ... like artillery, that could be used against Turkey.

Greece has been dealing with the refugee crisis for years so I don't see how that matters any more or less now. I mean nobody has given a darn. Vulture creditors kind of like they have now with the IMF.
It won't make the regional dent that the US side is claiming that it will. Thus far, any proposal that avoids the austerity measures has been rejected.

There is a push for a "Federal Europe" and this seems to be one avenue to obtain it.