Analyzing A Practical Minimum Wage

[OnePercenter]

dear before Reagan we had the post war economy in which we had the only economy left standing in the world. Do you understand? The Jap cars came in then and we then got much better thanks to the competition. They made our cars better.

Do you understand now? Notice how you lack the character to accept the pure ignorance on which liberalism is based?

The 'Jap cars' came in because Nixon allowed Japan to product dump in return for the US to place air bases in southern Japan.

So it's your contention that 1970's and 1980's American made automobiles were better than 1950's and 1960's?

 

[OnePercenter]

too stupid!! if so they could dictate that they would pay $0 for everything. The fact is they pay cost plus just like anyone else. Do you understand now?

If Walmart could pay zero they would.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The 'Jap cars' came in because Nixon allowed Japan to product dump in return for the US to place air bases in southern Japan.

Jap cars came here and everywhere as part of our understanding that free trade was best if you wanted to have world class goods and a world class country

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

too stupid!! if so they could dictate that they would pay $0 for everything. The fact is they pay cost plus just like anyone else. Do you understand now?

If Walmart could pay zero they would.

too stupid IF I could get lear Jet for $0 I would. So??

See why we say slow, and that is being polite!!

 

[OnePercenter]

too stupid by 1000% it would triple prices and make America a ghost town.

So you believe that taxes and employee costs for most businesses are less than 30% gross?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

So it's your contention that 1970's and 1980's American made automobiles were better than 1950's and 1960's?

dear, its everyone's contention that competiton makes you better. Still over your head?


In 1980 you paid 10 years salary in Hungary for a car without a gas gage (dip stick instead) that had to be backed up a hill because of a gravity fed carburetor. They employed engineers by the 1000's all of whom swore that was the best they could do.
It is not until you have had years and years of free Republican capitalist competition that you have any idea how many engineers are needed, at what salary, to produce what quality.
Can you understand the analogy?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

too stupid by 1000% it would triple prices and make America a ghost town.

So you believe that taxes and employee costs for most businesses are less than 30% gross?

dear the whole world believes that a 30% tax on business revenue when now we have about a 3% tax(highest in world) on revenue, that is driving our businesses and jobs off shore,
would cause an instant huge depression.

You honestly seem in the retarded range, even for a liberal?

 

[dblack]

This is quite a duel!

 

[Jackinthebox]

Seriously guys, this minimum wage stuff really shines a light on 'stupid'. Beat on another drum.

No one gives a crap about poor people, until you're poor.

When you are poor, you up your skills set.

Like becoming an EMT perhaps? Except that the people you call to save your life, are only making min wage and are dangerously overworked. Don't expect the best treatment.

No EMT is making minimum wage

I am an EMT. The company that I worked for last pays NYS Min wage for entry position. Most EMTs in my area, even with longevity, are still only making 9 or 10 bucks an hour.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Where is it written that one 40 hour a week job is supposed to pay all your expenses?

Notice this guy makes no mention of training, education or skills set that would allow your to EARN your keep.

How does he justify a HS dropout deserving $3,025 after taxes?

The vast majority of min wage workers have a HS diploma at the very least.

Besides, where is is written that everyone has to be a rocket scientist to earn their keep? It used to be that working at a grocery store, for example, was a viable career option for a blue collar worker. Especially someone who did not have the aptitude for college booksmarts.

When I entered the job market at 14 years old back int he late 80's, my first job was at a grocery store. At the time, I did actually consider it as a career possibility. I was hired by a manager who had been there since he and my father first got a part time job at the same store when they were going to college at the Culinary Institute of America. The nation's premiere culinary arts school. My father went on to be a renowned chef and restauranteur, but his friend chose to stay on at the supermarket and make a career out of it. The same went for my aunt, who did that same, at the same store. She didn't even bother to enter into management. She was never anything more than a lead cashier, and was earning over $20/hr in UNADJUSTED dollars when I went to work there. She managed to raise a family, buy a house, and go to college just for the hell of it, all on her salary as a grocery store cashier. You will never find anything like that today.

The American worker has lost ground. Stereotypes don't make up for that shortfall.

You do realize that less than 3% of all workers earn only the federal minimum wage. Included in that 3% are service workers who also get tips.

It's not the problem you seem to think it is

You're forgetting about all the rest of the workers who make more than the min, but still not an actual living wage. Workers who still rely on government subsidies in order to get by.

 

[Jackinthebox]

That was already factored in to the analysis.

Riding the bus wont run you 500 a month. And what the hell are you buying thats "miscellaneous" that costs you 400 a month? Let me guess...weed.

This isn't MY budget. These are national figures and recommended economic practices. Miscellaneous costs can be any number of things from a traffic ticket to a fender bender to a flooded out apartment to school supplies.

Where do single people pay $1,000 a month rent?

My GF is only paying $750 mortgage for a 3 BR house in a very nice suburb of a major city.

I live outside of NYC. A one bedroom in a complex runs a little over $1000 usually. The absolute cheapest dirt-hole you will find is $750. But places like that have problems such as no parking, high crime, real slum living.

A min wage worker cannot get a mortgage.

From the source:

RENT- $1,000

It is very difficult to find an accurate national average cost for a rental apartment. Local market values have a very wide range, and rental units are not uniform. According to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) the median asking price for an unfurnished rental unit was $1,277 in the first-quarter of 2012. That amount is below what one might have to spend even for the most basic, small studio apartment in New York City, but enough to secure a large 3-bedroom apartment in a mid-western town. We must assume, however, that the minimum-wage worker will most likely be living where work is available which is more often in regions where rent is much higher. For the purposes of our analyses, we have generalized to come up with a figure that is below the national average, in order to establish a minimum standard of living. $1000 is what one might expect to pay for a one-bedroom apartment in the suburbs of a major metropolitan area.

Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

Share a 3 bedroom place with 5 or 6 guys.

I know having roommates is a novel concept and all

There are any number of reasons why a person may not have a roomate. Anything from mental health issues, to old fashioned good sense. Roomates can be a very serious liability. This trend also contributes to a lot of domestic violence, where a couple are forced to stay together for financial reasons and continue to beat the dead horse of a volatile relationship. There was a woman down in Florida not too long ago who was raped and murdered by a roomate. Not even a boyfriend, just a roomate in the house. Putting people in dangerous situations is not a practical solution. There is no reason why a person who works full time should have to rely on anyone else in order to get by. Unless you think maybe all Americans should just start living like Mexicans.

 

[Jackinthebox]

Riding the bus wont run you 500 a month. And what the hell are you buying thats "miscellaneous" that costs you 400 a month? Let me guess...weed.

This isn't MY budget. These are national figures and recommended economic practices. Miscellaneous costs can be any number of things from a traffic ticket to a fender bender to a flooded out apartment to school supplies.

Where do single people pay $1,000 a month rent?

My GF is only paying $750 mortgage for a 3 BR house in a very nice suburb of a major city.

I live outside of NYC. A one bedroom in a complex runs a little over $1000 usually. The absolute cheapest dirt-hole you will find is $750. But places like that have problems such as no parking, high crime, real slum living.

A min wage worker cannot get a mortgage.

From the source:

RENT- $1,000

It is very difficult to find an accurate national average cost for a rental apartment. Local market values have a very wide range, and rental units are not uniform. According to the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) the median asking price for an unfurnished rental unit was $1,277 in the first-quarter of 2012. That amount is below what one might have to spend even for the most basic, small studio apartment in New York City, but enough to secure a large 3-bedroom apartment in a mid-western town. We must assume, however, that the minimum-wage worker will most likely be living where work is available which is more often in regions where rent is much higher. For the purposes of our analyses, we have generalized to come up with a figure that is below the national average, in order to establish a minimum standard of living. $1000 is what one might expect to pay for a one-bedroom apartment in the suburbs of a major metropolitan area.

Read more: Analyzing a Practical Minimum Wage Minimum Wage Workers Union of America

Share a 3 bedroom place with 5 or 6 guys.

I know having roommates is a novel concept and all

I didnt get my own apartment until I was around 22.
You have to wonder what makes kids today think they're entitled to so much,while doing so little.
Aww hell,who am I kidding. We know exactly why kids are entitle minded lazy little shits these days.

Consider yourself lucky that you got to say living at home with mommy and daddy. I have been on my own since I was 16.

 

[Jackinthebox]

I am single, live nicely on HALF of that each month.

Possible. But you are not the average American worker. Maybe your rent is a lot cheaper, maybe you have other advantages that we don't know about. The figures presented there are for a national average.

Nor is the min wage earner an "average American worker." There has to be entry level pay commensurate with entry level skills, and why would min wage earners get average housing? They are MIN WAGE EARNERS for crying out loud!

They're looking for that socialist utopia where they do the least amount of work possible and can still have the things they want in life....mainly drugs and booze.

You tell me which is the socialist concept here. Earning a living by getting up and going to work everyday, and having your employer pay you well enough to put groceries on the table. OR, businesses that use welfare supported workers? Sounds to me like the only real socialists here, are the businesses that rely on taxpayers to feed their workers, instead of paying an actual living wage.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Sounds to me like the only real socialists here, are the businesses that rely on taxpayers to feed their workers, instead of paying an actual living wage.

1) if govt stopped paying they would have to offer a living wage or they would have no workers since all workers want to live

2) a living wage is an idiotic concept anyway since our wages are 10 time higher than the living wages in Africa

 

[Jackinthebox]

Sounds to me like the only real socialists here, are the businesses that rely on taxpayers to feed their workers, instead of paying an actual living wage.

1) if govt stopped paying they would have to offer a living wage or they would have no workers since all workers want to live

2) a living wage is an idiotic concept anyway since our wages are 10 time higher than the living wages in Africa

Wouldn't it make more sense to put a living wage in place and then just let welfare wither on the vine, rather than cutting off welfare and coping with the ensuing chaos and death?

Africa? I don't care what they pay in Africa, India, or Mexico. Are you advocating to the the US into a third world country? Besides, it's apples and oranges. Africans actually have more cellphones than Americans do. If they can afford that "luxury" item, maybe things really aren't so bad. Hmmmm?

 

[asterism]

Can I use that the next time you post an economist's view of capitalism?

I'm a capitalist. Krugman is a theorist.

Those that have a sociopathic view on life can't understand Krugman.

Those who lose debates accuse their opponents of mental illness.

 

[asterism]

That's where the money is, so yes.

The key is having a system that maximizes the government revenue that's needed with the greatest efficiency. Everyone should pay some tax, those who can afford more should pay more. The progressive income tax was a good idea but the implementation sucks. The consumption tax with a poverty exemption is better. Less manipulative, fosters more growth.

Then you should agree that raising minimum wage to increase government revenue is a good idea.

Only if I had the same opinion of economics as you. I don't.

 

[asterism]

Yes. A big hint would be the term EBIT, "Earnings Before Interest and TAXES." Please tell me you've heard of the term and you're aware that many businesses have thin margins.

The big hint is that you don't answer the question: So his employees costs, and State and local taxes and fees are less than 3 million?

Your friend isn't telling you about his paycheck, and probably his wife's and his kids.

Look at the first word of my post you quoted. I answered your question. His kids are grown and not part of his business. I suppose he could be lying to me but I don't know why. He wanted an outsider's view of his financial situation because he wasn't sure he was getting good advice from his attorney and financial planner. The set of conversations started when he was getting audited by the IRS and he knew I'd gone through the same thing. Then he asked me about annuities and life insurance as investments (they aren't, they are savings programs). We got pretty detailed. His accountant is a mutual friend and he called him a few times to run some of my ideas by him.

His entire compensation is about $500K per year. He and his wife take salaries and the rest is taxed at capital gains. He and his wife own the whole company and it's an S-Corp.

Very thin margins, but half a million isn't too bad for a redneck grove worker.

 

[SAYIT]

He looks for bargains. He could afford to buy the building that houses his offices but he rents (because he doesn't have to take the risk and he doesn't have to pay employees minimum wage to fix the roof), he outsources his cleaning staff so he doesn't have the pay them $49K plus benefits (but he claims that's what he pays his lowest paid employees), and he pays Ford/Hertz for maintenance on his vehicles so that he doesn't have to pay the maintenance staff himself.

But he claims some moral high ground with regards to paying people. He pays well when it's convenient. Low-skilled tasks that he needs are outsourced. Sane people call that division of labor, full-of-shit bloviators like 1%er have cognitive dissonance.

-If you are a successful business person, looking for bargains is never priority. Finding who can accomplish your needs comes first.

-Why is buying an office a risk? Buying vs. leasing in business is dependent on the companies tax structure.

-Why would you use your own employees to fix a roof. Your workers compensation insurance carrier would go nuts. Businesses are rated as to the type of business. Putting employees on a roof (unless that's the business you're in) is NEVER a good idea.

-Do I pay Ford/Hertz for maintenance? Yes. It's part of the lease package. Why? Liability. If something catastrophic occurs and you have a maintenance schedule being done by the manufacturer using OEM, your liability can be less. The other reason is resale which effects/affects your lease payment. OEM serviced equipment is worth more...

So what you are saying is that outsourcing - for any number of reasons - can be the smarter way to do business. Why then do you deny doing it - when obviously you do - and why would you deny any other biz owner the opportunity to benefit from it?
WTF is wrong with you?

 

[SAYIT]

I am single, live nicely on HALF of that each month.

Possible. But you are not the average American worker. Maybe your rent is a lot cheaper, maybe you have other advantages that we don't know about. The figures presented there are for a national average.

Nor is the min wage earner an "average American worker." There has to be entry level pay commensurate with entry level skills, and why would min wage earners get average housing? They are MIN WAGE EARNERS for crying out loud!

They're looking for that socialist utopia where they do the least amount of work possible and can still have the things they want in life....mainly drugs and booze.

You tell me which is the socialist concept here. Earning a living by getting up and going to work everyday, and having your employer pay you well enough to put groceries on the table. OR, businesses that use welfare supported workers? Sounds to me like the only real socialists here, are the businesses that rely on taxpayers to feed their workers, instead of paying an actual living wage.

Silliness. The only peeps earning bottom dollar are those whose education, knowledge, experience and productivity warrant it. We aren't paid "an actual living wage" in America but rather what the market will bear. There will always be some at the bottom and they are there for obvious reasons. The push to drastically increase their wage is a socialist/unionist thing:

"The Center for Union Facts analyzed collective-bargaining agreements obtained from the Department of Labor’s Office of Labor-Management Standards. The data indicate that a number of unions in the service, retail and hospitality industries peg their base-line wages to the minimum wage. . . . The two most popular formulas were setting baseline union wages as a percentage above the state or federal minimum wage or mandating a flat wage premium above the minimum wage."
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324048904578318541000422454