An ice free day in the Arctic Ocean by 2030?

[Sunsettommy]

Well, this is actually likely true. I'm not sure about the Arctic, but I'm pretty sure studies have proven that at least back during dinosaur times, there were somewhat tropical conditions at the pole, and dinosaurs lived there.

I have a nice list of published papers at my forum showing that yes there were indeed periods of ice-free summers there in our interglacial period.

LINK

 

[ding]

Really stupid post.

Publication Abstracts​

Hansen et al. 1981​

Hansen, J., D. Johnson, A. Lacis, S. Lebedeff, P. Lee, D. Rind, and G. Russell, 1981: Climate impact of increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide. Science, 213, 957-966, doi:10.1126/science.213.4511.957.

The global temperature rose 0.2°C between the middle 1960s and 1980, yielding a warming of 0.4°C in the past century. This temperature increase is consistent with the calculated effect due to measured increases of atmospheric carbon dioxide. Variations of volcanic aerosols and possibly solar luminosity appear to be primary causes of observed fluctuations about the mean trend of increasing temperature. It is shown that the anthropogenic carbon dioxide warming should emerge from the noise level of natural climate variability by the end of the century, and there is a high probability of warming in the 1980s. Potential effects on climate in the 21st century include the creation of drought-prone regions in North America and central Asia as part of a shifting of climatic zones, erosion of the West Antarctic ice sheet with a consequent worldwide rise in sea level, and opening of the fabled Northwest Passage.

Pubs.GISS: Hansen et al. 1981: Climate impact of increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide

www.giss.nasa.gov

Someone should tell them it's the ocean and not the atmosphere.

 

[Old Rocks]

Someone should tell them it's the ocean and not the atmosphere.

Of course one has no influence over the other, correct?

 

[Old Rocks]

I have a nice list of published papers at my forum showing that yes there were indeed periods of ice-free summers there in our interglacial period.

LINK

Yes, not only ice free during the interglacial periods, but alligators and turtles in the Arctic during the PETM;

During the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum, which occurred 56 million years ago, alligators were able to thrive in the High Arctic, well above the Arctic Circle, due to very high concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere

How giant tortoises, alligators thrived in High Arctic 50 million years ago

A new study of the High Arctic climate roughly 50 million years ago helps to explain how ancient alligators and giant tortoises were able to thrive on Ellesmere Island well above the Arctic Circle, even as they endured six months of darkness each year.

www.sciencedaily.com

 

[ding]

Of course one has no influence over the other, correct?

Ocean currents are affected by many things, man isn't one of them. If you understood why the northern hemisphere has been controlling the climate of the planet for the last 3 million years, then I wouldn't have to waste time refuting your idiotic belief of AGW.

Given that the last four glacial periods came dangerously close to the critical CO2 threshold for photosynthesis, the planet needs more atmospheric CO2, not less. And given that much of the population of the planet is in poverty, they need more fossil fuels, not less.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ocean currents are affected by many things, man isn't one of them. If you understood why the northern hemisphere has been controlling the climate of the planet for the last 3 million years, then I wouldn't have to waste time refuting your idiotic belief of AGW.

Given that the last four glacial periods came dangerously close to the critical CO2 threshold for photosynthesis, the planet needs more atmospheric CO2, not less. And given that much of the population of the planet is in poverty, they need more fossil fuels, not less.

Well, they say the lower level for plants is 150 ppm. That is odd, as there were enough plants at 180 ppm during the glacial to support huge numbers of huge animals in North America. We had mammoths, mastodons, dire wolves, cave bears, huge sloths, and many other large mammals. So how did we have so many animals dependent on plants if the plants were that close to the lower limit? Maybe they have adaptation pathways we have not yet discovered? If the addition to GHGs in our atmosphere were being stretched out of centuries, instead of decades, then it might not matter that much. But the rapidity of the change, far faster than most periods of major extinctions, is what matters.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ocean currents are affected by many things, man isn't one of them. If you understood why the northern hemisphere has been controlling the climate of the planet for the last 3 million years, then I wouldn't have to waste time refuting your idiotic belief of AGW.

Given that the last four glacial periods came dangerously close to the critical CO2 threshold for photosynthesis, the planet needs more atmospheric CO2, not less. And given that much of the population of the planet is in poverty, they need more fossil fuels, not less.

We have no effect over the ocean currents? LOL Just what the hell do you think is slowing the AMOC as we post? It is the melting of the Greenland Ice Cap. And why is the Greenland Ice Cap melting? Because the ocean and atmosphere is warming because of the addition of GHGs. And where are these GHGs coming from? Us, we are the ones adding massive amounts of GHGs by the burning of fossil fuels.

 

[ding]

Well, they say the lower level for plants is 150 ppm. That is odd, as there were enough plants at 180 ppm during the glacial to support huge numbers of huge animals in North America. We had mammoths, mastodons, dire wolves, cave bears, huge sloths, and many other large mammals. So how did we have so many animals dependent on plants if the plants were that close to the lower limit? Maybe they have adaptation pathways we have not yet discovered? If the addition to GHGs in our atmosphere were being stretched out of centuries, instead of decades, then it might not matter that much. But the rapidity of the change, far faster than most periods of major extinctions, is what matters.

And yet it's well understood that there is a minimum threshold of atmospheric CO2 that is required for photosynthesis and the last 4 glacial periods came dangerously close to it.

 

[ding]

We have no effect over the ocean currents? LOL Just what the hell do you think is slowing the AMOC as we post? It is the melting of the Greenland Ice Cap. And why is the Greenland Ice Cap melting? Because the ocean and atmosphere is warming because of the addition of GHGs. And where are these GHGs coming from? Us, we are the ones adding massive amounts of GHGs by the burning of fossil fuels.

It's temperature dependent and the last 30 or so glacial periods had no problem reaching that without man. Why do you think that would change?