An experience of universal healthcare

[Saigon]

During the last few months I have faced a fairly serious illness, and thought it might be interesting for US posters to know how the system works here.

I initially saw a private doctor, as I had sore ribs after a football accident the previous evening and wanted to get it checked out the same day. A consultation and an X-ray set me back €120, and after that I was referred to the public sector. (Had I gone to a public sector doctor, I'd probably have waited 3-4 days and not been able to choose an appointment time)

After a delay of one week I had a few hours worth of tests, and then waited another week to meet with a specialist. After the meeting with the specialist on a Friday, I began treatment the following Wednesday.

The half-day of testing cost me €29, and the meeting with the specialist another €29. I did spend €77 on medications, but from that point on all of the treatment has been completely free, based on the specialists recommendation. So the total cost of the entire treatment program will be around €150.

To my mind, the service has been amazing. All of the people I have met have been fantastic. The facilities and equipment have been state of the art, the nurses friendly and helpful, and the service excellent.

Healthcare may not be as good in every country that has universal healthcare, but my experience has convinced me that the service we get here is likely as good as most hospitals in the US - and it is covered efficiently and easily through my taxes. It's available to everyone, it is fast and it works.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You need ObamaCare

 

[Ernie S.]

During the last few months I have faced a fairly serious illness, and thought it might be interesting for US posters to know how the system works here.

I initially saw a private doctor, as I had sore ribs after a football accident the previous evening and wanted to get it checked out the same day. A consultation and an X-ray set me back €120, and after that I was referred to the public sector. (Had I gone to a public sector doctor, I'd probably have waited 3-4 days and not been able to choose an appointment time)

After a delay of one week I had a few hours worth of tests, and then waited another week to meet with a specialist. After the meeting with the specialist on a Friday, I began treatment the following Wednesday.

The half-day of testing cost me €29, and the meeting with the specialist another €29. I did spend €77 on medications, but from that point on all of the treatment has been completely free, based on the specialists recommendation. So the total cost of the entire treatment program will be around €150.

To my mind, the service has been amazing. All of the people I have met have been fantastic. The facilities and equipment have been state of the art, the nurses friendly and helpful, and the service excellent.

Healthcare may not be as good in every country that has universal healthcare, but my experience has convinced me that the service we get here is likely as good as most hospitals in the US - and it is covered efficiently and easily through my taxes. It's available to everyone, it is fast and it works.

Here, (pre obamacare) you would have had insurance provided by your employer. You would have gone to a primary care facility or an Emergency room at a local hospital. Your injury would have been assessed in an hour and your other illness found and treated. Out of pocket expense would have been comparable and your illness wouldn't have progressed 2 weeks longer than necessary.
Add to that the fact that your government wouldn't have had access to your medical records. Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[Saigon]

Ernie -

I take your point - but I'm self-employed, so any employer contribution would have been made by me anyway.

Some delays are inherent in any system, because not every facility has the equipment to perform CT or MRI scans, for instance, and even if they do there may be minor delays to use them. I don't think waiting a week for a scan is a problem myself. I dare say many Americans would choose a 7-day wait for a free scan if they were offered it.

The government does not have access to my medical records here...I'm not sure why you would think they did. The only people with access to my medical records are my GP and the Helsinki hospital region (which includes a half dozen hospitals, I think).

 

[Ernie S.]

Ernie -

I take your point - but I'm self-employed, so any employer contribution would have been made by me anyway.

Some delays are inherent in any system, because not every facility has the equipment to perform CT or MRI scans, for instance, and even if they do there may be minor delays to use them. I don't think waiting a week for a scan is a problem myself. I dare say many Americans would choose a 7-day wait for a free scan if they were offered it.

The government does not have access to my medical records here...I'm not sure why you would think they did. The only people with access to my medical records are my GP and the Helsinki hospital region (which includes a half dozen hospitals, I think).

A few years ago, I had a rather bad antibiotic resistant infection in my hand. I went to a walk in clinic. I was given antibiotics and pain meds. 3 days later, it was apparent the meds weren't killing the infection so I returned. The doctor there sent me by ambulance to the hospital where I was operated on. I spent 9 days in the hospital and I bet I got 5 gallons of various antibiotics and a couple more gallons of morphine and a few more potent pain killers.
Once discharged, I started wound therapy the next day. Therapy was daily including Saturday and Sunday for 30 days and 3 times a week for 2 more months. The doctor was worried about osteomylitus (bone infection) and referred me first to an MRI clinic. I actually went from my hand surgeon's office to the MRI facility and returned to the doctor with a DVD of the scan within the hour.
Tests were inconclusive, so he ordered an atomic bone scan. The facility was in a private hospital and an appointment was set for the next morning due to the fact that the whole process would take 8 hours. Thankfully, that test was negative as well, but had I faced week long delays in treatment, especially between the clinic and the hospital for the initial surgery, I'd be typing this with one hand.

Again. No thanks.

AND... If your government is paying for it, you can bet the farm they know what they're paying for. So YES they have your records.

 

[Saigon]

Ernie -

I'm really glad you received great care. I really am - in an ideal world everyone would have access to the kind of care you and I received in our different systems.

And that, to me, is the difference between the two systems. Here, everyone receives the same excellent level of care. In your system, not everyone does because access to the system is determined by insurance and the employer paying dues.

I don't argue that US care is as good as Finland - I'm sure it is. I argue that not everyone receives the same quality of care.

And no - the government absolutely definitely does not have access to my records, and I say that with total certainty.

 

[JakeStarkey]

[Here, (pre obamacare) you would have had insurance provided by your employer. You would have gone to a primary care facility or an Emergency room at a local hospital. Your injury would have been assessed in an hour and your other illness found and treated. Out of pocket expense would have been comparable and your illness wouldn't have progressed 2 weeks longer than necessary.
Add to that the fact that your government wouldn't have had access to your medical records. Thanks, but no thanks.

He is not telling you more than 40mm Americans did not have access to such care.

The USA could have easily had such care if the private insurance company bean counters had not instituted life and death panels as to who could get affordable, quality, accessible care.

The actions of the Ernie S.s and Antareses and Yurts made this change necessary.

 

[Ernie S.]

Ernie -

I'm really glad you received great care. I really am - in an ideal world everyone would have access to the kind of care you and I received in our different systems.

And that, to me, is the difference between the two systems. Here, everyone receives the same excellent level of care. In your system, not everyone does because access to the system is determined by insurance and the employer paying dues.

I don't argue that US care is as good as Finland - I'm sure it is. I argue that not everyone receives the same quality of care.

And no - the government absolutely definitely does not have access to my records, and I say that with total certainty.

Here, we tend to get what we pay for. I'm sorry, but I don't think I should be paying for the pregnancy of a woman in California. Or mine, either, for that matter.

As far as the government having access to your records, I refuse to believe that any sane bureaucracy would pay a bill that didn't include itemized fees.

 

[Saigon]

HUCH (Helsinki Regional Hospital Services) have access to my records, and I signed a form allowing that information to be available to my GP and visa versa.

My specialist signs off on my care, and that information is forwarded to the Ministry of Health. So they have access to my name, personal id number, and the extent of my treatment - but not the nature of that treatment. At least, that is how I understand it.

I agree that in the US each citizens gets what they pay for, and that is fair enough, I suppose. But for myself I like that one vendor provides excellent services to all. I like that some old lady can get a retinal transplant that allows her to live alone another 10 years, or that some kid can get a kidney transplant without it bankrupting his parents.

And right now I like that for all my years paying taxes, I can enjoy excellent care without having to even think - am I covered for this shit? Can I afford this?

 

[Ernie S.]

HUCH (Helsinki Regional Hospital Services) have access to my records, and I signed a form allowing that information to be available to my GP and visa versa.

My specialist signs off on my care, and that information is forwarded to the Ministry of Health. So they have access to my name, personal id number, and the extent of my treatment - but not the nature of that treatment. At least, that is how I understand it.

I agree that in the US each citizens gets what they pay for, and that is fair enough, I suppose. But for myself I like that one vendor provides excellent services to all. I like that some old lady can get a retinal transplant that allows her to live alone another 10 years, or that some kid can get a kidney transplant without it bankrupting his parents.

And right now I like that for all my years paying taxes, I can enjoy excellent care without having to even think - am I covered for this shit? Can I afford this?

Would you like to be missing a hand or dead because you had to wait a week for a referral? I was admitted to the hospital in septic shock It's very likely that I didn't HAVE a week to wait for the bureaucratic wheels to be greased.

Have you considered how less serious your illness might have been had you received prompt treatment?

 

[LoneLaugher]

ERNIE!!!!!!!

Under your desired system LOTS of people never.......aw......fuck it! You need help.

 

[Ernie S.]

No sir. I don't need help. I'm an adult. I pay my own way.

 

[Noomi]

You might pay for a specialist here but you could have gone to the hospital and had your tests and xrays and not wasted that $120 you did.

 

[Saigon]

Ernie -

The care that I received was absolutely fantastic in every way - professional, friendly, state of the art and fast. It is also available to the entire population.

I met with a specialist on a Friday, and began my treatment program on the following Wednesday. If you seriously consider two working days to be an unacceptable delay, then I think you're being unrealistic about what is possible under any system.

(Of course I do agree that with something like an infection that might kill you within the day, more urgent action would have been needed, and would have been available here too.My situation simply wasn't THAT urgent)

 

[Saigon]

Noomi -

I could have gone to a public sector GP here without payment as well. But as it happens I was in the city for a work meeting, felt the rib pain was uncomfortable, so walked into a private clinic and saw the first GP available. That consultation, with x-rays, cost €120.

For the CT scan I was offered a choice - to have it privately the next day for €520, or wait one week and have it for €8. I chose the latter.

 

[Ernie S.]

Ernie -

The care that I received was absolutely fantastic in every way - professional, friendly, state of the art and fast. It is also available to the entire population.

I met with a specialist on a Friday, and began my treatment program on the following Wednesday. If you seriously consider two working days to be an unacceptable delay, then I think you're being unrealistic about what is possible under any system.

(Of course I do agree that with something like an infection that might kill you within the day, more urgent action would have been needed, and would have been available here too.My situation simply wasn't THAT urgent)

Your care may have been personal, friendly, perhaps even state of the art, but it was not fast.
If I had waited 5 days, at best, I'd be missing my left hand. At worst, I'd have succumbed to the infection. A 5 day wait for treatment is unacceptable.

You yourself, classified your illness as serious. From your limited description, I have no idea how serious it was. The difference between my case and yours is that my physician decided the best course of treatment without having to jump through bureaucratic hoops and approvals from some panel of disinterested bean counters. I've got scars, but the hand is 95%.

 

[Political Junky]

Ernie -

I'm really glad you received great care. I really am - in an ideal world everyone would have access to the kind of care you and I received in our different systems.

And that, to me, is the difference between the two systems. Here, everyone receives the same excellent level of care. In your system, not everyone does because access to the system is determined by insurance and the employer paying dues.

I don't argue that US care is as good as Finland - I'm sure it is. I argue that not everyone receives the same quality of care.

And no - the government absolutely definitely does not have access to my records, and I say that with total certainty.

Here, we tend to get what we pay for. I'm sorry, but I don't think I should be paying for the pregnancy of a woman in California. Or mine, either, for that matter.

As far as the government having access to your records, I refuse to believe that any sane bureaucracy would pay a bill that didn't include itemized fees.

Yes, you get what you pay for, and God forbid you can't pay for it.
It's said that the US has the best medical care that money can buy ... it's sad but true.

 

[Saigon]

Ernie -

My care was EXTREMELY fast.

I think it's a fairly obvious point that someone with a spreading infection may need treatment within hours - and would receive it in your country and mine. Someone with a serious illness may not benefit or suffer from waiting a month. I was in no pain or discomfort, and was actually amazed to find my treatment would start 3 working days after my consultation.

 

[Ernie S.]

I was fortunate to have my treatment start immediately, not 5 days after I went into septic shock.

Sorry. By all means, enjoy your Finnish health care system. We don't want it.

 

[Saigon]

Enrie -

Do you understand the difference between urgent and non-urgent care?