An alternate view of Nelson Mandela

[Mac-7]

You dont have to disavow everything you believe about Mandela based on this video

South Africa was a a apartheid state that invited reform

And Mandela assisted that process

But he may not be the african Mahatma Gandhi either

 

[The Duke]

He was a black commie.

 

[egp320i]

He was a black commie.

basically and SA has been in the shitter ever since and white settlers culled, land taken, reformed into weeds

steal productive land, give it away to the poor without any capital to use it

100K for a tractor, then a till, seeder and harvester

I know a few farmers around me, they rotate barley, wheat, marigold, rapeseed

one has a contract with pennington to grow grass and harvest the seeds so people
can have a nice yard

 

[forkup]

You dont have to disavow everything you believe about Mandela based on this video

South Africa was a a apartheid state that invited reform

And Mandela assisted that process

But he may not be the african Mahatma Gandhi either

So I breezed through the clip, and it seems to me that the gist of it is that Nelson Mandela's group while fighting apartheid did horrible things and that he was a communist and therefor he's a villain and not a hero.

Presumably you watched the whole thing so feel free to point out anything important I missed.

This begs 2 questions though.

Question 1: If someone does horrible things to end a system like apartheid, are those things immoral?

Question 2: Why is it important to an American as yourself to start an OP trying to put shade an a person who by your own admission assisted the process to end apartheid? What is the point of emphasizing these aspects of Mandela if you acknowledge he helped end something like apartheid?

 

[egp320i]

So I breezed through the clip, and it seems to me that the gist of it is that Nelson Mandela's group while fighting apartheid did horrible things and that he was a communist and therefor he's a villain and not a hero.

Presumably you watched the whole thing so feel free to point out anything important I missed.

This begs 2 questions though.

Question 1: If someone does horrible things to end a system like apartheid, are those things immoral?

Question 2: Why is it important to an American as yourself to start an OP trying to put shade an a person who by your own admission assisted the process to end apartheid? What is the point of emphasizing these aspects of Mandela if you acknowledge he helped end something like apartheid?

maybe trying to be cultured but everybody actually had it better under white rule
yes blacks did as well as the economy was good thus cheaper prices, that trickles down

where their some rich people with nice homes? sure, they also were the backbone of the economy at large

poor blacks don't bring anything to the table, except theft, drunks, druggies......etc

reason South Chicago and detroit are such dumps now.......gangs and drugs run the show

that is not being productive, that is being a menace to society

 

[forkup]

maybe trying to be cultured but everybody actually had it better under white rule
yes blacks did as well as the economy was good thus cheaper prices, that trickles down

where their some rich people with nice homes? sure, they also were the backbone of the economy at large

poor blacks don't bring anything to the table, except theft, drunks, druggies......etc

reason South Chicago and detroit are such dumps now.......gangs and drugs run the show

that is not being productive, that is being a menace to society

"Cultured" is not how I'd describe the argument that "everybody had it better umder apartheid." Because the economy was better.

Having a system in place that creates 2 classes of citizens were one has less, legal, political and economical rights, were one class is forcibly relocated has less job opportunity, for most cultured people is abhorrent and most definetly NOT better for one class.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

His wife was a big fan of necklacing, which of course used on black victims. They are mostly just feral savages, hiding behind Tutu as a front.

 

[EdwinAMartin]

"Cultured" is not how I'd describe the argument that "everybody had it better umder apartheid." Because the economy was better.

Having a system in place that creates 2 classes of citizens were one has less, legal, political and economical rights, were one class is forcibly relocated has less job opportunity, for most cultured people is abhorrent and most definetly NOT better for one class.

Actually, the indigenous ZULU mainly supported the regime a lot of the time; most of the ''disenfranchised' were immigrant labor from other parts of Africa. Tribes in Africa are violently racist and constantly feuding. their most peaceful eras were under European colonial systems.

 

[egp320i]

"Cultured" is not how I'd describe the argument that "everybody had it better umder apartheid." Because the economy was better.

Having a system in place that creates 2 classes of citizens were one has less, legal, political and economical rights, were one class is forcibly relocated has less job opportunity, for most cultured people is abhorrent and most definetly NOT better for one class.

when they bring overall opportunity with a more safe society it does

blacks did work, not in upper management but they DID have job for their skill level

Rhodesia, they grew so much food they exported, the blacks worked the fields and were paid

they were not educated to RUN the farm because they could not

it's called division of labor, why the USA imports poor latinos to pick YOUR lettuce, because they are willing
and can as it's all they CAN do, that's it

if you can't get past 10t grade low paying manual labor is all you will ever do, just a fact

 

[MarcATL]

Color me shocked from the usual suspects.

 

[the watcher]

This is the Mandella Effect, where people believe things that never really happened. Willie Nelson Mandella was really laid back and misunderstood. His wife was really a good-hearted woman in love with a big timing man.

 

[Correll]

So I breezed through the clip, and it seems to me that the gist of it is that Nelson Mandela's group while fighting apartheid did horrible things and that he was a communist and therefor he's a villain and not a hero.

Presumably you watched the whole thing so feel free to point out anything important I missed.

This begs 2 questions though.

Question 1: If someone does horrible things to end a system like apartheid, are those things immoral?

Yes.,

Question 2: Why is it important to an American as yourself to start an OP trying to put shade an a person who by your own admission assisted the process to end apartheid? What is the point of emphasizing these aspects of Mandela if you acknowledge he helped end something like apartheid?

So we can learn from history and avoid similar mistakes in the future.

You don't ever want to give a commie a break. THey will use it to kill you and your family and then committ genocide on your people and then oppress the survivors.

 

[forkup]

Yes.,




So we can learn from history and avoid similar mistakes in the future.

You don't ever want to give a commie a break. THey will use it to kill you and your family and then committ genocide on your people and then oppress the survivors.

What mistakes are that?

The only relevant historical analogy to events in the US is segragation. In fact, they were pretty identical. Would you call ending segregation a "mistake."

Come to think of it quite alot of violent things were done to abolish in the fight against segregation and even more to.abolish it's precursor. Was that a "mistake?"

The use of violence to end injustices like segragation or slavery for most people is one of the few instances were violence is not just tolerated but justified.

It seems to me that people like Mac or you in defense of the culture wars are trying to justify some of the greatest injustices in modern history.

I personally would pause when my arguments lead me to defend opression amd villinize those fighting against it.

 

[Correll]

What mistakes are that?

Yeah, the bit where you ignore my explanation, to ask for an explanation?

You lost all crediblity there. That's like retarded to the point where you can't move your own bowells retarded.

So, yeah.

.....

 

[EdwinAMartin]

So we can learn from history and avoid similar mistakes in the future.

You don't ever want to give a commie a break. THey will use it to kill you and your family and then committ genocide on your people and then oppress the survivors.

Bingo.

 

[Mac-7]

So I breezed through the clip, and it seems to me that the gist of it is that Nelson Mandela's group while fighting apartheid did horrible things and that he was a communist and therefor he's a villain and not a hero.

Presumably you watched the whole thing so feel free to point out anything important I missed.

This begs 2 questions though.

Question 1: If someone does horrible things to end a system like apartheid, are those things immoral?

Question 2: Why is it important to an American as yourself to start an OP trying to put shade an a person who by your own admission assisted the process to end apartheid? What is the point of emphasizing these aspects of Mandela if you acknowledge he helped end something like apartheid?

So I breezed through the clip

That was a mistake on your part

The presenter made no excuses for apartheid

It had to go

But the barbarism of the anti apartheid/communism methods embraced by Mandela was not the best way to go about it

I know how much libs loathe admitting their own mistakes

But canonizing Nelson Mandela is a giant booboo

 

[Mac-7]

forkup

You tell me

Fo two wrongs make a right?

I dont think so

How can you ever explain away necklacing and package it as a good thing?

As for your 2nd question, as an American who is bombarded by attacks on American history going back 500 years I have learned that sweeping history under a rug never works and should be avoided

Of course if I were a lib who hates South Africa as much as libs hate America I wouldnt limit myself to a single thread and move on

Instead I would hammer SA constantly, which I havent done

 

[JoeB131]

So I breezed through the clip

That was a mistake on your part

The presenter made no excuses for apartheid

It had to go

But the barbarism of the anti apartheid/communism methods embraced by Mandela was not the best way to go about it

I know how much libs loathe admitting their own mistakes

But canonizing Nelson Mandela is a giant booboo

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

The point is what DIDN'T happen after Apartheid fell. They didn't slaughter all the whites, which is the excuse the Whites gave about why they couldn't give up Apartheid.

Instead, they had Truth and Reconciliation Committees, everyone apologized for the bad stuff they did, and life went on in a more equitable South Africa.

 

[forkup]

forkup

You tell me

Fo two wrongs make a right?

I dont think so

How can you ever explain away necklacing and package it as a good thing?

As for your 2nd question, as an American who is bombarded by attacks on American history going back 500 years I have learned that sweeping history under a rug never works and should be avoided

Of course if I were a lib who hates South Africa as much as libs hate America I wouldnt limit myself to a single thread and move on

Instead I would hammer SA constantly, which I havent done

If the one wrong is what is neccessary to ensure a bigger wrong goes away, yes. In fact history is full of examples.

The US put a nuclear bomb on 2 Japanese cities. Killing nearly 100000 people and ending WW2. Without it the alternative would have been an invasion of the mainland. Certainly causing many more casualties on both sides.

Come to think of it. Aren't you defending the US bombing Iran causing death and destruction of both civilians and military personel. Are you saying now that is wrong?

It seems to me that we both are perfectly aware that sometimes the use of violence is both neccesary and justified. Were we disagree is when.

In this case your argument seems to be that ending apartheid did not justify the use of violence.

 

[JoeB131]

If the one wrong is what is neccessary to ensure a bigger wrong goes away, yes. In fact history is full of examples.

The US put a nuclear bomb on 2 Japanese cities. Killing nearly 100000 people and ending WW2. Without it the alternative would have been an invasion of the mainland. Certainly causing many more casualties on both sides.

Probably not a good example. The Japanese were already ready to surrender, and the Soviet entry into the war was a bigger factor in their decision.

The sticking point was the status of the Emperor, which we conceded because we didn't want the Soviets to have half of Japan and China, which is what would have happened if the war had continued on for another six months.