Amnesty Internationa: China executed more people in 2016, than all other nations combined.

[Vikrant]

I'm sure all of the socialist countries will say it was "fair justice" and they had due process. I wonder how many were executed on trumped up charges or because they had a political opinion and were courageous enough to share it?

They have a tendency of executing people for white collar crimes. In the US executions are never for the political classes or the rich, they look after their own.

I remember one case in China where a woman basically scammed people out of millions of dollars, so they executed her.

it's mostly because we only execute people for murder, and usually only really really bad ones, premeditated, when done in the commission of another crime, multiple (either spree or serial) or for killing cops.

It has less to do with economic or political might and more to do with poor people just tend to murder more than rich ones. Correlation if not causation.

A majority of people who are executed in China are those who voice political opinions against CCP. If the executed person was healthy, his/her organs are harvested for the benefit of Chinese oligarchs.

Do you have any evidence of this? The problem is that they do arrest such people, but records of who is getting executed isn't there.

Yes, they use organs, they "harvest" them so other people can get them. What's wrong with that? People are being executed, why not use their organs for other people?

Falon gong members whose only crime is spirituality get executed specifically for their organs. This is by far one of the most inhumane acts committed by any government in the world.

---

The report says detained Falun Gong practitioners were forced to have blood tests and medical exams. Those test results were placed in a database of living organ sources so quick organ matches could be made, the authors claim.

Report: China mass harvesting organs from prisoners - CNN.com

 

[shockedcanadian]

I'm sure all of the socialist countries will say it was "fair justice" and they had due process. I wonder how many were executed on trumped up charges or because they had a political opinion and were courageous enough to share it?

They have a tendency of executing people for white collar crimes. In the US executions are never for the political classes or the rich, they look after their own.

I remember one case in China where a woman basically scammed people out of millions of dollars, so they executed her.

it's mostly because we only execute people for murder, and usually only really really bad ones, premeditated, when done in the commission of another crime, multiple (either spree or serial) or for killing cops.

It has less to do with economic or political might and more to do with poor people just tend to murder more than rich ones. Correlation if not causation.

A majority of people who are executed in China are those who voice political opinions against CCP. If the executed person was healthy, his/her organs are harvested for the benefit of Chinese oligarchs.

Do you have any evidence of this? The problem is that they do arrest such people, but records of who is getting executed isn't there.

Yes, they use organs, they "harvest" them so other people can get them. What's wrong with that? People are being executed, why not use their organs for other people?

Falon gong members whose only crime is spirituality get executed specifically for their organs. This is by far one of the most inhumane acts committed by any government in the world.

---

The report says detained Falun Gong practitioners were forced to have blood tests and medical exams. Those test results were placed in a database of living organ sources so quick organ matches could be made, the authors claim.

Report: China mass harvesting organs from prisoners - CNN.com

All of the whining and screaming that somehow Trump is too cozy with Russia, while China has violated the most sacred of laws in the most disturbing manner since the dawn of time, and noone says peep.

Quite frankly the lack of a principled stance by so many who claim to be defenders of human rights scares the hell out of me.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I'm sure all of the socialist countries will say it was "fair justice" and they had due process. I wonder how many were executed on trumped up charges or because they had a political opinion and were courageous enough to share it?

They have a tendency of executing people for white collar crimes. In the US executions are never for the political classes or the rich, they look after their own.

I remember one case in China where a woman basically scammed people out of millions of dollars, so they executed her.

it's mostly because we only execute people for murder, and usually only really really bad ones, premeditated, when done in the commission of another crime, multiple (either spree or serial) or for killing cops.

It has less to do with economic or political might and more to do with poor people just tend to murder more than rich ones. Correlation if not causation.

A majority of people who are executed in China are those who voice political opinions against CCP. If the executed person was healthy, his/her organs are harvested for the benefit of Chinese oligarchs.

Do you have any evidence of this? The problem is that they do arrest such people, but records of who is getting executed isn't there.

Yes, they use organs, they "harvest" them so other people can get them. What's wrong with that? People are being executed, why not use their organs for other people?

Falon gong members whose only crime is spirituality get executed specifically for their organs. This is by far one of the most inhumane acts committed by any government in the world.

---

The report says detained Falun Gong practitioners were forced to have blood tests and medical exams. Those test results were placed in a database of living organ sources so quick organ matches could be made, the authors claim.

Report: China mass harvesting organs from prisoners - CNN.com

Well, the problem with such reports is that it is difficult to know what is going on.

The authors claim this. No doubt there is a persecution against this group, but then you'll find evidence of people who have been arrested and gone through the system and come out the other side. Okay, if they've come out, then it's clearly not about the organs. Which members have been executed?

Your article says that the Chinese govt takes organs from prisoners, and says that "many" of these prisoners are there for crimes of conscience. But what does that mean? So, Tim McVeigh didn't like the govt, another govt could say he was a political prisoner there for crimes of conscience. You see how that works?

Chinese Doctor Admits to Falun Gong Organ Harvest

This article would have suited you better.

"A high-ranking retired Chinese military doctor has been caught in a phone call placed by a human rights group admitting that he used the organs of political prisoners in a joint research project with Wang Lijun, the former right-hand man to disgraced Party official Bo Xilai."

However this looks like someone who wanted to get back at Xi who hates Bo Xilai and is cracking down on anyone connected to him.

You see the problem here? Information isn't always what it seems. What do we actually know? Not much. It's how the party wants it.

 

[Vikrant]

Well, the point being that in China they will execute when people commit bad crimes to do with money. The US doesn't. Why not? Why do the politicians choose crimes that they generally don't do? Er... well... because... they're looking after their own.

Or maybe the ultimate punishment should be reserved for the ultimate crime. We used to execute people for non-murders, cattle rustling, insurrection, etc, but besides military justice, our system reserves capital punishment only for the crime of murder.

Well, the ultimate crime is what? Just murder? Why is murder worse than stealing millions of pounds from people?

The point is that a country like America has capital punishment, but then criticizes China for using capital punishment. It's absurd.

No it isn't. Our system spends on average a decade making sure the person to be executed did the crime.

How does that respond to what I said? Either I'm not getting your twist on this, or you're not getting mine.

you are trying to compare our Death Penalty and China's with regards to class, and the fact they they execute people for financial crimes, something which by your posting I assume you support.

And the response is that China uses capital punishment more for political reasons than for criminal reasons. Our is used to execute murderers, theirs is more "pour encouragment les autres"

Major victims of Chinese government sponsored organ harvesting are Falun Gong members. Their only "crime" is meditation and other spiritual activities. Chinese government preys on its own people as long as the said people can be marked expendable.

 

[Vikrant]

They have a tendency of executing people for white collar crimes. In the US executions are never for the political classes or the rich, they look after their own.

I remember one case in China where a woman basically scammed people out of millions of dollars, so they executed her.

it's mostly because we only execute people for murder, and usually only really really bad ones, premeditated, when done in the commission of another crime, multiple (either spree or serial) or for killing cops.

It has less to do with economic or political might and more to do with poor people just tend to murder more than rich ones. Correlation if not causation.

A majority of people who are executed in China are those who voice political opinions against CCP. If the executed person was healthy, his/her organs are harvested for the benefit of Chinese oligarchs.

Do you have any evidence of this? The problem is that they do arrest such people, but records of who is getting executed isn't there.

Yes, they use organs, they "harvest" them so other people can get them. What's wrong with that? People are being executed, why not use their organs for other people?

Falon gong members whose only crime is spirituality get executed specifically for their organs. This is by far one of the most inhumane acts committed by any government in the world.

---

The report says detained Falun Gong practitioners were forced to have blood tests and medical exams. Those test results were placed in a database of living organ sources so quick organ matches could be made, the authors claim.

Report: China mass harvesting organs from prisoners - CNN.com

Well, the problem with such reports is that it is difficult to know what is going on.

The authors claim this. No doubt there is a persecution against this group, but then you'll find evidence of people who have been arrested and gone through the system and come out the other side. Okay, if they've come out, then it's clearly not about the organs. Which members have been executed?

Your article says that the Chinese govt takes organs from prisoners, and says that "many" of these prisoners are there for crimes of conscience. But what does that mean? So, Tim McVeigh didn't like the govt, another govt could say he was a political prisoner there for crimes of conscience. You see how that works?

Chinese Doctor Admits to Falun Gong Organ Harvest

This article would have suited you better.

"A high-ranking retired Chinese military doctor has been caught in a phone call placed by a human rights group admitting that he used the organs of political prisoners in a joint research project with Wang Lijun, the former right-hand man to disgraced Party official Bo Xilai."

However this looks like someone who wanted to get back at Xi who hates Bo Xilai and is cracking down on anyone connected to him.

You see the problem here? Information isn't always what it seems. What do we actually know? Not much. It's how the party wants it.

It is not about what suits me. It is about raising awareness on one of the most gruesome human rights violations. That article was not for me. It was for people like you.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Or maybe the ultimate punishment should be reserved for the ultimate crime. We used to execute people for non-murders, cattle rustling, insurrection, etc, but besides military justice, our system reserves capital punishment only for the crime of murder.

Well, the ultimate crime is what? Just murder? Why is murder worse than stealing millions of pounds from people?

The point is that a country like America has capital punishment, but then criticizes China for using capital punishment. It's absurd.

No it isn't. Our system spends on average a decade making sure the person to be executed did the crime.

How does that respond to what I said? Either I'm not getting your twist on this, or you're not getting mine.

you are trying to compare our Death Penalty and China's with regards to class, and the fact they they execute people for financial crimes, something which by your posting I assume you support.

And the response is that China uses capital punishment more for political reasons than for criminal reasons. Our is used to execute murderers, theirs is more "pour encouragment les autres"

Major victims of Chinese government sponsored organ harvesting are Falun Gong members. Their only "crime" is meditation and other spiritual activities. Chinese government preys on its own people as long as the said people can be marked expendable.

Okay, so where's the evidence?

 

[frigidweirdo]

it's mostly because we only execute people for murder, and usually only really really bad ones, premeditated, when done in the commission of another crime, multiple (either spree or serial) or for killing cops.

It has less to do with economic or political might and more to do with poor people just tend to murder more than rich ones. Correlation if not causation.

A majority of people who are executed in China are those who voice political opinions against CCP. If the executed person was healthy, his/her organs are harvested for the benefit of Chinese oligarchs.

Do you have any evidence of this? The problem is that they do arrest such people, but records of who is getting executed isn't there.

Yes, they use organs, they "harvest" them so other people can get them. What's wrong with that? People are being executed, why not use their organs for other people?

Falon gong members whose only crime is spirituality get executed specifically for their organs. This is by far one of the most inhumane acts committed by any government in the world.

---

The report says detained Falun Gong practitioners were forced to have blood tests and medical exams. Those test results were placed in a database of living organ sources so quick organ matches could be made, the authors claim.

Report: China mass harvesting organs from prisoners - CNN.com

Well, the problem with such reports is that it is difficult to know what is going on.

The authors claim this. No doubt there is a persecution against this group, but then you'll find evidence of people who have been arrested and gone through the system and come out the other side. Okay, if they've come out, then it's clearly not about the organs. Which members have been executed?

Your article says that the Chinese govt takes organs from prisoners, and says that "many" of these prisoners are there for crimes of conscience. But what does that mean? So, Tim McVeigh didn't like the govt, another govt could say he was a political prisoner there for crimes of conscience. You see how that works?

Chinese Doctor Admits to Falun Gong Organ Harvest

This article would have suited you better.

"A high-ranking retired Chinese military doctor has been caught in a phone call placed by a human rights group admitting that he used the organs of political prisoners in a joint research project with Wang Lijun, the former right-hand man to disgraced Party official Bo Xilai."

However this looks like someone who wanted to get back at Xi who hates Bo Xilai and is cracking down on anyone connected to him.

You see the problem here? Information isn't always what it seems. What do we actually know? Not much. It's how the party wants it.

It is not about what suits me. It is about raising awareness on one of the most gruesome human rights violations. That article was not for me. It was for people like you.

The problem is you're not saying anything I don't know, you're not proving what you're claiming... you're shouting out about these violations, but you won't prove it.

 

[Vikrant]

Well, the ultimate crime is what? Just murder? Why is murder worse than stealing millions of pounds from people?

The point is that a country like America has capital punishment, but then criticizes China for using capital punishment. It's absurd.

No it isn't. Our system spends on average a decade making sure the person to be executed did the crime.

How does that respond to what I said? Either I'm not getting your twist on this, or you're not getting mine.

you are trying to compare our Death Penalty and China's with regards to class, and the fact they they execute people for financial crimes, something which by your posting I assume you support.

And the response is that China uses capital punishment more for political reasons than for criminal reasons. Our is used to execute murderers, theirs is more "pour encouragment les autres"

Major victims of Chinese government sponsored organ harvesting are Falun Gong members. Their only "crime" is meditation and other spiritual activities. Chinese government preys on its own people as long as the said people can be marked expendable.

Okay, so where's the evidence?

Do you want certification from Chinese government? Chinese government counts on people like you who specialize in muddying the water.

 

[Vikrant]

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime’s Forced Organ Harvesting

Chinese billionaire in exile Guo Wengui broke a long period of silence this year by giving video interviews, in which he described the complex web of business and politics connecting China’s elite.

One of the most surprising revelations from Guo’s interviews, given to overseas Chinese media, is what he had to say on the subject of forced organ harvesting from Chinese prisoners of conscience—in particular from practitioners of Falun Gong, a spiritual practice that is heavily persecuted by the Chinese regime.

After describing how his now-imprisoned business rival, Li You, was able to obtain a liver for transplant without any difficulty, Guo said he made inquiries through his network in China about the source of the liver and found that it was to come from a murdered practitioner of Falun Gong (at the time of the interview, Li had not yet undergone the liver transplant).

In a tweet, Guo apologized to adherents of Falun Gong, saying that he previously thought the allegations of organ harvesting were a hoax. “But judging from Li You getting a new liver, I saw that this kind of thing is really happening! I didn’t make this clear [in the interview], so here I express my apologies to Falun Gong believers,” Guo said.

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime's Forced Organ Harvesting

 

[frigidweirdo]

No it isn't. Our system spends on average a decade making sure the person to be executed did the crime.

How does that respond to what I said? Either I'm not getting your twist on this, or you're not getting mine.

you are trying to compare our Death Penalty and China's with regards to class, and the fact they they execute people for financial crimes, something which by your posting I assume you support.

And the response is that China uses capital punishment more for political reasons than for criminal reasons. Our is used to execute murderers, theirs is more "pour encouragment les autres"

Major victims of Chinese government sponsored organ harvesting are Falun Gong members. Their only "crime" is meditation and other spiritual activities. Chinese government preys on its own people as long as the said people can be marked expendable.

Okay, so where's the evidence?

Do you want certification from Chinese government? Chinese government counts on people like you who specialize in muddying the water.

I want evidence.

I could say the US govt is harvesting people's organs. Some dude who hates the US govt has come out and said this, I remember it, but I can't and won't show this is the case. You have to believe me, because, hell, this is the internet and EVERYTHING on the internet is TRUE.

You're coming at me with not much, you're trying to make a case, and really, what do you have? You have what YOU BELIEVE. And I'm supposed to follow you because....?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime’s Forced Organ Harvesting

Chinese billionaire in exile Guo Wengui broke a long period of silence this year by giving video interviews, in which he described the complex web of business and politics connecting China’s elite.

One of the most surprising revelations from Guo’s interviews, given to overseas Chinese media, is what he had to say on the subject of forced organ harvesting from Chinese prisoners of conscience—in particular from practitioners of Falun Gong, a spiritual practice that is heavily persecuted by the Chinese regime.

After describing how his now-imprisoned business rival, Li You, was able to obtain a liver for transplant without any difficulty, Guo said he made inquiries through his network in China about the source of the liver and found that it was to come from a murdered practitioner of Falun Gong (at the time of the interview, Li had not yet undergone the liver transplant).

In a tweet, Guo apologized to adherents of Falun Gong, saying that he previously thought the allegations of organ harvesting were a hoax. “But judging from Li You getting a new liver, I saw that this kind of thing is really happening! I didn’t make this clear [in the interview], so here I express my apologies to Falun Gong believers,” Guo said.

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime's Forced Organ Harvesting

Okay, this guy is a source.

When you have sources you ask the questions.

Who? Why? etc

Someone who doesn't like the Chinese govt is saying something bad about the Chinese govt. There are many possible reasons for such a person to be saying such things.

How does a guy who is in exile find out where organs come from in a secretive prison system? He just ran up Xi and Xi told him?

Also, what do we have?

You have a claim about some unknown Falun Gong member who was executed. Why were they executed? Were they executed because they killed 20 people? Were they killed because they say "I love Fulan Gong"? Well, you don't know, you don't know what the claim is.

Perhaps this guy happened to get the liver after they matched the liver with someone who was about to be executed for murder.

Simple fact is, you don't know most of what this guy has said, you don't know why this guy said what he said, you don't know if this guy is saying the truth or making it up to hurt the govt he doesn't like because he is in exile (self imposed??? Almost certainly, the Chinese govt does not exile people, we know this because they go to Thailand to get back Chinese people accused of crimes rather than letting them rot in Thai prisons), you are taking what people want you to hear, making assumptions at every step of the way.

 

[Vikrant]

How does that respond to what I said? Either I'm not getting your twist on this, or you're not getting mine.

you are trying to compare our Death Penalty and China's with regards to class, and the fact they they execute people for financial crimes, something which by your posting I assume you support.

And the response is that China uses capital punishment more for political reasons than for criminal reasons. Our is used to execute murderers, theirs is more "pour encouragment les autres"

Major victims of Chinese government sponsored organ harvesting are Falun Gong members. Their only "crime" is meditation and other spiritual activities. Chinese government preys on its own people as long as the said people can be marked expendable.

Okay, so where's the evidence?

Do you want certification from Chinese government? Chinese government counts on people like you who specialize in muddying the water.

I want evidence.

I could say the US govt is harvesting people's organs. Some dude who hates the US govt has come out and said this, I remember it, but I can't and won't show this is the case. You have to believe me, because, hell, this is the internet and EVERYTHING on the internet is TRUE.

You're coming at me with not much, you're trying to make a case, and really, what do you have? You have what YOU BELIEVE. And I'm supposed to follow you because....?

You are what is called intellectually bankrupt. We are communicating online. The best I can do is provide you links to credible reports that detail the crimes of Chinese government with respect to human rights violations. I have already provided you with two links. What else do you want me to come at you with? Do you want me to send you to China to see it firsthand?

 

[frigidweirdo]

you are trying to compare our Death Penalty and China's with regards to class, and the fact they they execute people for financial crimes, something which by your posting I assume you support.

And the response is that China uses capital punishment more for political reasons than for criminal reasons. Our is used to execute murderers, theirs is more "pour encouragment les autres"

Major victims of Chinese government sponsored organ harvesting are Falun Gong members. Their only "crime" is meditation and other spiritual activities. Chinese government preys on its own people as long as the said people can be marked expendable.

Okay, so where's the evidence?

Do you want certification from Chinese government? Chinese government counts on people like you who specialize in muddying the water.

I want evidence.

I could say the US govt is harvesting people's organs. Some dude who hates the US govt has come out and said this, I remember it, but I can't and won't show this is the case. You have to believe me, because, hell, this is the internet and EVERYTHING on the internet is TRUE.

You're coming at me with not much, you're trying to make a case, and really, what do you have? You have what YOU BELIEVE. And I'm supposed to follow you because....?

You are what is called intellectually bankrupt. We are communicating online. The best I can do is provide you links to credible reports that detail the crimes of Chinese government with respect to human rights violations. I have already provided you with two links. What else do you want me to come at you with? Do you want me to send you to China to see it firsthand?

Oh, not come out the insults.

Okay, the best you have is not much, and yet I'm morally bankrupt because you don't have much? Right...... er......

What do I want you to come up with?

Well, you know, I didn't say this would be easy. You can throw all the sources that you have and you may still not know the answer. This is my point. I will argue what is in front of me, and what you have isn't much.

This doesn't mean the Chinese govt is doing this. This doesn't mean the Chinese govt isn't doing this.

Yes, sometimes in life there are things you'll never know, and that sucks, but it's the way it goes. Get over it.

 

[Vikrant]

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime’s Forced Organ Harvesting

Chinese billionaire in exile Guo Wengui broke a long period of silence this year by giving video interviews, in which he described the complex web of business and politics connecting China’s elite.

One of the most surprising revelations from Guo’s interviews, given to overseas Chinese media, is what he had to say on the subject of forced organ harvesting from Chinese prisoners of conscience—in particular from practitioners of Falun Gong, a spiritual practice that is heavily persecuted by the Chinese regime.

After describing how his now-imprisoned business rival, Li You, was able to obtain a liver for transplant without any difficulty, Guo said he made inquiries through his network in China about the source of the liver and found that it was to come from a murdered practitioner of Falun Gong (at the time of the interview, Li had not yet undergone the liver transplant).

In a tweet, Guo apologized to adherents of Falun Gong, saying that he previously thought the allegations of organ harvesting were a hoax. “But judging from Li You getting a new liver, I saw that this kind of thing is really happening! I didn’t make this clear [in the interview], so here I express my apologies to Falun Gong believers,” Guo said.

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime's Forced Organ Harvesting

Okay, this guy is a source.

When you have sources you ask the questions.

Who? Why? etc

Someone who doesn't like the Chinese govt is saying something bad about the Chinese govt. There are many possible reasons for such a person to be saying such things.

How does a guy who is in exile find out where organs come from in a secretive prison system? He just ran up Xi and Xi told him?

Also, what do we have?

You have a claim about some unknown Falun Gong member who was executed. Why were they executed? Were they executed because they killed 20 people? Were they killed because they say "I love Fulan Gong"? Well, you don't know, you don't know what the claim is.

Perhaps this guy happened to get the liver after they matched the liver with someone who was about to be executed for murder.

Simple fact is, you don't know most of what this guy has said, you don't know why this guy said what he said, you don't know if this guy is saying the truth or making it up to hurt the govt he doesn't like because he is in exile (self imposed??? Almost certainly, the Chinese govt does not exile people, we know this because they go to Thailand to get back Chinese people accused of crimes rather than letting them rot in Thai prisons), you are taking what people want you to hear, making assumptions at every step of the way.

Where is your evidence that he dislikes Chinese government? He does not approve of Chinese government but there is no evidence that he dislikes Chinese government. Frankly, I cannot imagine any human being with fully functioning conscience approving Chinese government's blatant tortures, murders and genocides.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime’s Forced Organ Harvesting

Chinese billionaire in exile Guo Wengui broke a long period of silence this year by giving video interviews, in which he described the complex web of business and politics connecting China’s elite.

One of the most surprising revelations from Guo’s interviews, given to overseas Chinese media, is what he had to say on the subject of forced organ harvesting from Chinese prisoners of conscience—in particular from practitioners of Falun Gong, a spiritual practice that is heavily persecuted by the Chinese regime.

After describing how his now-imprisoned business rival, Li You, was able to obtain a liver for transplant without any difficulty, Guo said he made inquiries through his network in China about the source of the liver and found that it was to come from a murdered practitioner of Falun Gong (at the time of the interview, Li had not yet undergone the liver transplant).

In a tweet, Guo apologized to adherents of Falun Gong, saying that he previously thought the allegations of organ harvesting were a hoax. “But judging from Li You getting a new liver, I saw that this kind of thing is really happening! I didn’t make this clear [in the interview], so here I express my apologies to Falun Gong believers,” Guo said.

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime's Forced Organ Harvesting

Okay, this guy is a source.

When you have sources you ask the questions.

Who? Why? etc

Someone who doesn't like the Chinese govt is saying something bad about the Chinese govt. There are many possible reasons for such a person to be saying such things.

How does a guy who is in exile find out where organs come from in a secretive prison system? He just ran up Xi and Xi told him?

Also, what do we have?

You have a claim about some unknown Falun Gong member who was executed. Why were they executed? Were they executed because they killed 20 people? Were they killed because they say "I love Fulan Gong"? Well, you don't know, you don't know what the claim is.

Perhaps this guy happened to get the liver after they matched the liver with someone who was about to be executed for murder.

Simple fact is, you don't know most of what this guy has said, you don't know why this guy said what he said, you don't know if this guy is saying the truth or making it up to hurt the govt he doesn't like because he is in exile (self imposed??? Almost certainly, the Chinese govt does not exile people, we know this because they go to Thailand to get back Chinese people accused of crimes rather than letting them rot in Thai prisons), you are taking what people want you to hear, making assumptions at every step of the way.

Where is your evidence that he dislikes Chinese government? He does not approve of Chinese government but there is no evidence that he dislikes Chinese government. Frankly, I cannot imagine any human being with fully functioning conscience approving Chinese government's blatant tortures, murders and genocides.

He's in exile. Why would you be in exile if you like the Chinese govt?

No, I can't imagine that either. Nor can I imagine anyone approving of the US's foreign policy over the last 100 years or so, and yet 75% or more of Americans DO APPROVE. Beggars belief, but what you find is that there are people who will approve of bad things all the time.

Note, I have never said I approve of torture, of executions, of genocide or any of these other things. We're not talking about what I believe, we're talking about what we know. Now genocide by the Chinese govt, well, that's not hard to prove.

 

[Vikrant]

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime’s Forced Organ Harvesting

Chinese billionaire in exile Guo Wengui broke a long period of silence this year by giving video interviews, in which he described the complex web of business and politics connecting China’s elite.

One of the most surprising revelations from Guo’s interviews, given to overseas Chinese media, is what he had to say on the subject of forced organ harvesting from Chinese prisoners of conscience—in particular from practitioners of Falun Gong, a spiritual practice that is heavily persecuted by the Chinese regime.

After describing how his now-imprisoned business rival, Li You, was able to obtain a liver for transplant without any difficulty, Guo said he made inquiries through his network in China about the source of the liver and found that it was to come from a murdered practitioner of Falun Gong (at the time of the interview, Li had not yet undergone the liver transplant).

In a tweet, Guo apologized to adherents of Falun Gong, saying that he previously thought the allegations of organ harvesting were a hoax. “But judging from Li You getting a new liver, I saw that this kind of thing is really happening! I didn’t make this clear [in the interview], so here I express my apologies to Falun Gong believers,” Guo said.

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime's Forced Organ Harvesting

Okay, this guy is a source.

When you have sources you ask the questions.

Who? Why? etc

Someone who doesn't like the Chinese govt is saying something bad about the Chinese govt. There are many possible reasons for such a person to be saying such things.

How does a guy who is in exile find out where organs come from in a secretive prison system? He just ran up Xi and Xi told him?

Also, what do we have?

You have a claim about some unknown Falun Gong member who was executed. Why were they executed? Were they executed because they killed 20 people? Were they killed because they say "I love Fulan Gong"? Well, you don't know, you don't know what the claim is.

Perhaps this guy happened to get the liver after they matched the liver with someone who was about to be executed for murder.

Simple fact is, you don't know most of what this guy has said, you don't know why this guy said what he said, you don't know if this guy is saying the truth or making it up to hurt the govt he doesn't like because he is in exile (self imposed??? Almost certainly, the Chinese govt does not exile people, we know this because they go to Thailand to get back Chinese people accused of crimes rather than letting them rot in Thai prisons), you are taking what people want you to hear, making assumptions at every step of the way.

Where is your evidence that he dislikes Chinese government? He does not approve of Chinese government but there is no evidence that he dislikes Chinese government. Frankly, I cannot imagine any human being with fully functioning conscience approving Chinese government's blatant tortures, murders and genocides.

He's in exile. Why would you be in exile if you like the Chinese govt?

No, I can't imagine that either. Nor can I imagine anyone approving of the US's foreign policy over the last 100 years or so, and yet 75% or more of Americans DO APPROVE. Beggars belief, but what you find is that there are people who will approve of bad things all the time.

Note, I have never said I approve of torture, of executions, of genocide or any of these other things. We're not talking about what I believe, we're talking about what we know. Now genocide by the Chinese govt, well, that's not hard to prove.

US government is more transparent than Chinese government. So you get to hear about the ills of US government quite often. You do not have the same luxury about the Chinese government.

He is in exile because he does not want to participate in inhumane ventures of Chinese government. Even if he dislikes Chinese government, that in itself does not make him less credible as long as his dislike is based on rational reasons such as Chinese government's targeting of Falun Gong members for organ harvesting.

Can you prove that his dislike is based on anything else but the crimes of Chinese government?

 

[frigidweirdo]

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime’s Forced Organ Harvesting

Chinese billionaire in exile Guo Wengui broke a long period of silence this year by giving video interviews, in which he described the complex web of business and politics connecting China’s elite.

One of the most surprising revelations from Guo’s interviews, given to overseas Chinese media, is what he had to say on the subject of forced organ harvesting from Chinese prisoners of conscience—in particular from practitioners of Falun Gong, a spiritual practice that is heavily persecuted by the Chinese regime.

After describing how his now-imprisoned business rival, Li You, was able to obtain a liver for transplant without any difficulty, Guo said he made inquiries through his network in China about the source of the liver and found that it was to come from a murdered practitioner of Falun Gong (at the time of the interview, Li had not yet undergone the liver transplant).

In a tweet, Guo apologized to adherents of Falun Gong, saying that he previously thought the allegations of organ harvesting were a hoax. “But judging from Li You getting a new liver, I saw that this kind of thing is really happening! I didn’t make this clear [in the interview], so here I express my apologies to Falun Gong believers,” Guo said.

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime's Forced Organ Harvesting

Okay, this guy is a source.

When you have sources you ask the questions.

Who? Why? etc

Someone who doesn't like the Chinese govt is saying something bad about the Chinese govt. There are many possible reasons for such a person to be saying such things.

How does a guy who is in exile find out where organs come from in a secretive prison system? He just ran up Xi and Xi told him?

Also, what do we have?

You have a claim about some unknown Falun Gong member who was executed. Why were they executed? Were they executed because they killed 20 people? Were they killed because they say "I love Fulan Gong"? Well, you don't know, you don't know what the claim is.

Perhaps this guy happened to get the liver after they matched the liver with someone who was about to be executed for murder.

Simple fact is, you don't know most of what this guy has said, you don't know why this guy said what he said, you don't know if this guy is saying the truth or making it up to hurt the govt he doesn't like because he is in exile (self imposed??? Almost certainly, the Chinese govt does not exile people, we know this because they go to Thailand to get back Chinese people accused of crimes rather than letting them rot in Thai prisons), you are taking what people want you to hear, making assumptions at every step of the way.

Where is your evidence that he dislikes Chinese government? He does not approve of Chinese government but there is no evidence that he dislikes Chinese government. Frankly, I cannot imagine any human being with fully functioning conscience approving Chinese government's blatant tortures, murders and genocides.

He's in exile. Why would you be in exile if you like the Chinese govt?

No, I can't imagine that either. Nor can I imagine anyone approving of the US's foreign policy over the last 100 years or so, and yet 75% or more of Americans DO APPROVE. Beggars belief, but what you find is that there are people who will approve of bad things all the time.

Note, I have never said I approve of torture, of executions, of genocide or any of these other things. We're not talking about what I believe, we're talking about what we know. Now genocide by the Chinese govt, well, that's not hard to prove.

US government is more transparent than Chinese government. So you get to hear about the ills of US government quite often. You do not have the same luxury about the Chinese government.

He is in exile because he does not want to participate in inhumane ventures of Chinese government. Even if he dislikes Chinese government, that in itself does not make him less credible as long as his dislike is based on rational reasons such as Chinese government's targeting of Falun Gong members for organ harvesting.

Can you prove that his dislike is based on anything else but the crimes of Chinese government?

Yes, it is. That doesn't mean things don't happen that shouldn't happen.

Bush managed to go to war with false intel, how did he do this? Well, because not everything in the US is so transparent. Lots of things happen that we don't know about. What about the Democrat worker who got killed? How did he get killed?

There are rumors, but facts?

How many people do you know who have been exiled, and use the term "exiled" (because I'm making a strong assumption that he's using this term himself rather than the Chinese govt) and actually like the government from the country they're exiled from?

 

[Unkotare]

I'm sure all of the socialist countries will say it was "fair justice" and they had due process. I wonder how many were executed on trumped up charges or because they had a political opinion and were courageous enough to share it?

They have a tendency of executing people for white collar crimes. In the US executions are never for the political classes or the rich, they look after their own.

I remember one case in China where a woman basically scammed people out of millions of dollars, so they executed her.

it's mostly because we only execute people for murder, and usually only really really bad ones, premeditated, when done in the commission of another crime, multiple (either spree or serial) or for killing cops.

It has less to do with economic or political might and more to do with poor people just tend to murder more than rich ones. Correlation if not causation.

A majority of people who are executed in China are those who voice political opinions against CCP. .....

Proof?

 

[Vikrant]

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime’s Forced Organ Harvesting

Chinese billionaire in exile Guo Wengui broke a long period of silence this year by giving video interviews, in which he described the complex web of business and politics connecting China’s elite.

One of the most surprising revelations from Guo’s interviews, given to overseas Chinese media, is what he had to say on the subject of forced organ harvesting from Chinese prisoners of conscience—in particular from practitioners of Falun Gong, a spiritual practice that is heavily persecuted by the Chinese regime.

After describing how his now-imprisoned business rival, Li You, was able to obtain a liver for transplant without any difficulty, Guo said he made inquiries through his network in China about the source of the liver and found that it was to come from a murdered practitioner of Falun Gong (at the time of the interview, Li had not yet undergone the liver transplant).

In a tweet, Guo apologized to adherents of Falun Gong, saying that he previously thought the allegations of organ harvesting were a hoax. “But judging from Li You getting a new liver, I saw that this kind of thing is really happening! I didn’t make this clear [in the interview], so here I express my apologies to Falun Gong believers,” Guo said.

Exiled Chinese Billionaire Sheds Light on Regime's Forced Organ Harvesting

Okay, this guy is a source.

When you have sources you ask the questions.

Who? Why? etc

Someone who doesn't like the Chinese govt is saying something bad about the Chinese govt. There are many possible reasons for such a person to be saying such things.

How does a guy who is in exile find out where organs come from in a secretive prison system? He just ran up Xi and Xi told him?

Also, what do we have?

You have a claim about some unknown Falun Gong member who was executed. Why were they executed? Were they executed because they killed 20 people? Were they killed because they say "I love Fulan Gong"? Well, you don't know, you don't know what the claim is.

Perhaps this guy happened to get the liver after they matched the liver with someone who was about to be executed for murder.

Simple fact is, you don't know most of what this guy has said, you don't know why this guy said what he said, you don't know if this guy is saying the truth or making it up to hurt the govt he doesn't like because he is in exile (self imposed??? Almost certainly, the Chinese govt does not exile people, we know this because they go to Thailand to get back Chinese people accused of crimes rather than letting them rot in Thai prisons), you are taking what people want you to hear, making assumptions at every step of the way.

Where is your evidence that he dislikes Chinese government? He does not approve of Chinese government but there is no evidence that he dislikes Chinese government. Frankly, I cannot imagine any human being with fully functioning conscience approving Chinese government's blatant tortures, murders and genocides.

He's in exile. Why would you be in exile if you like the Chinese govt?

No, I can't imagine that either. Nor can I imagine anyone approving of the US's foreign policy over the last 100 years or so, and yet 75% or more of Americans DO APPROVE. Beggars belief, but what you find is that there are people who will approve of bad things all the time.

Note, I have never said I approve of torture, of executions, of genocide or any of these other things. We're not talking about what I believe, we're talking about what we know. Now genocide by the Chinese govt, well, that's not hard to prove.

US government is more transparent than Chinese government. So you get to hear about the ills of US government quite often. You do not have the same luxury about the Chinese government.

He is in exile because he does not want to participate in inhumane ventures of Chinese government. Even if he dislikes Chinese government, that in itself does not make him less credible as long as his dislike is based on rational reasons such as Chinese government's targeting of Falun Gong members for organ harvesting.

Can you prove that his dislike is based on anything else but the crimes of Chinese government?

Yes, it is. That doesn't mean things don't happen that shouldn't happen.

Bush managed to go to war with false intel, how did he do this? Well, because not everything in the US is so transparent. Lots of things happen that we don't know about. What about the Democrat worker who got killed? How did he get killed?

There are rumors, but facts?

How many people do you know who have been exiled, and use the term "exiled" (because I'm making a strong assumption that he's using this term himself rather than the Chinese govt) and actually like the government from the country they're exiled from?

I did not say US government was perfect. Compared to Chinese government though, US government is embodiment of an angel.

---

On a separate note, here is another report on Chinese government's organ harvesting:

China’s Ugly Side: Activists Say Nation Still Harvests Prisoners’ Organs

A local Florida newspaper reported this week that a group called Falun Gong will be protesting outside of Mar-a-Lag as Chinese President Xi Jinping meets with President Donald Trump, and referred to a “dispute” between Xi and the spiritual group.

“Dispute” is wildly inaccurate. The Chinese Communist Party, which Xi heads, has been murdering members of Falun Gong and stealing their organs, according to a 600-page report by Canadian researchers, and not always in that order: The organs are sometimes cut out while the person is still alive, according to those trying to sound alarm bells.

And the number of murders committed by Xi’s communists may be as high as 100,000 a year, according to some human-rights activists – a slaughter of human beings, one that most Americans hear almost nothing about.

Dr. Charles Lee, a Falun Gong practitioner who is now an American citizen living in New Jersey, spent three years in a Chinese prison, forced to labor every day making Homer Simpson slippers for the U.S. market. But he recounts a story worse than his forced-labor prison term.

in 1990, when he was studying to be a doctor in China, he was once inside what he says was a mobile execution van, and waited while a doctor cut the heart out of a prisoner while the man was still alive.

...

China’s Ugly Side: Activists Say Nation Still Harvests Prisoners’ Organs

 

[frigidweirdo]

Okay, this guy is a source.

When you have sources you ask the questions.

Who? Why? etc

Someone who doesn't like the Chinese govt is saying something bad about the Chinese govt. There are many possible reasons for such a person to be saying such things.

How does a guy who is in exile find out where organs come from in a secretive prison system? He just ran up Xi and Xi told him?

Also, what do we have?

You have a claim about some unknown Falun Gong member who was executed. Why were they executed? Were they executed because they killed 20 people? Were they killed because they say "I love Fulan Gong"? Well, you don't know, you don't know what the claim is.

Perhaps this guy happened to get the liver after they matched the liver with someone who was about to be executed for murder.

Simple fact is, you don't know most of what this guy has said, you don't know why this guy said what he said, you don't know if this guy is saying the truth or making it up to hurt the govt he doesn't like because he is in exile (self imposed??? Almost certainly, the Chinese govt does not exile people, we know this because they go to Thailand to get back Chinese people accused of crimes rather than letting them rot in Thai prisons), you are taking what people want you to hear, making assumptions at every step of the way.

Where is your evidence that he dislikes Chinese government? He does not approve of Chinese government but there is no evidence that he dislikes Chinese government. Frankly, I cannot imagine any human being with fully functioning conscience approving Chinese government's blatant tortures, murders and genocides.

He's in exile. Why would you be in exile if you like the Chinese govt?

No, I can't imagine that either. Nor can I imagine anyone approving of the US's foreign policy over the last 100 years or so, and yet 75% or more of Americans DO APPROVE. Beggars belief, but what you find is that there are people who will approve of bad things all the time.

Note, I have never said I approve of torture, of executions, of genocide or any of these other things. We're not talking about what I believe, we're talking about what we know. Now genocide by the Chinese govt, well, that's not hard to prove.

US government is more transparent than Chinese government. So you get to hear about the ills of US government quite often. You do not have the same luxury about the Chinese government.

He is in exile because he does not want to participate in inhumane ventures of Chinese government. Even if he dislikes Chinese government, that in itself does not make him less credible as long as his dislike is based on rational reasons such as Chinese government's targeting of Falun Gong members for organ harvesting.

Can you prove that his dislike is based on anything else but the crimes of Chinese government?

Yes, it is. That doesn't mean things don't happen that shouldn't happen.

Bush managed to go to war with false intel, how did he do this? Well, because not everything in the US is so transparent. Lots of things happen that we don't know about. What about the Democrat worker who got killed? How did he get killed?

There are rumors, but facts?

How many people do you know who have been exiled, and use the term "exiled" (because I'm making a strong assumption that he's using this term himself rather than the Chinese govt) and actually like the government from the country they're exiled from?

I did not say US government was perfect. Compared to Chinese government though, US government is embodiment of an angel.

---

On a separate note, here is another report on Chinese government's organ harvesting:

China’s Ugly Side: Activists Say Nation Still Harvests Prisoners’ Organs

A local Florida newspaper reported this week that a group called Falun Gong will be protesting outside of Mar-a-Lag as Chinese President Xi Jinping meets with President Donald Trump, and referred to a “dispute” between Xi and the spiritual group.

“Dispute” is wildly inaccurate. The Chinese Communist Party, which Xi heads, has been murdering members of Falun Gong and stealing their organs, according to a 600-page report by Canadian researchers, and not always in that order: The organs are sometimes cut out while the person is still alive, according to those trying to sound alarm bells.

And the number of murders committed by Xi’s communists may be as high as 100,000 a year, according to some human-rights activists – a slaughter of human beings, one that most Americans hear almost nothing about.

Dr. Charles Lee, a Falun Gong practitioner who is now an American citizen living in New Jersey, spent three years in a Chinese prison, forced to labor every day making Homer Simpson slippers for the U.S. market. But he recounts a story worse than his forced-labor prison term.

in 1990, when he was studying to be a doctor in China, he was once inside what he says was a mobile execution van, and waited while a doctor cut the heart out of a prisoner while the man was still alive.

...

China’s Ugly Side: Activists Say Nation Still Harvests Prisoners’ Organs

No, I would doubt the US is the embodiment of an angel.

In terms of dealing with their own people, the US is better, but better doesn't necessarily mean good. You have how the US govt deals with Native Americans. However that's not really the point here.

I'm not saying the Chinese govt is in any way good. What I'm getting at is that people are willing to come on here and make accusations that they can't back up. Then later they'll go off on one about fake news, saying how bad it is.