America's infrastructure is collapsing.

[Truthmatters]

I think the phrase throwing money at the problem may come up.

They say that about anything they are not willing to pay for.

Schools always get this treatment

 

[Truthmatters]

We haven't spent four trillion on wars in other countries. We have spent by now close to 20 trillion on the welfare state in the last forty years and people wonder why we can no longer afford to maintain our infrastructure. 20% of the populous works for state federal or local government another thirty per cent is drawing a government check and you wonder why we have no money to maintain or improve infrastructure?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

someone has never seen the military buget

 

[2Parties]

Navy is spot on, at least in defining one of the many problems facing our nation; and, 2parties provides and example of why fixing anything is near impossible.
2Parties seems to want to privatize everything done by government, and by inference stop the government from regulating economic matters (i.e. the banking, insurance and health care industries).

The government itself is an economic matter, and it will necessarily involve itself in such things.

2Parties must believe those who build bridges and roads are government employees and concludes they are therefore incompetent.

They may or may not be government employees and they may or may not be competent.

The fact is investing our tax dollars in such repairs, rebuilds and new roadways provides jobs to the private sector, and as has been shown time and again, the private sector seems to find cost overruns an entitlement.

It's not exactly private when funded by taxpayers. When the government miscalculates (intentionally or unintentionally) and puts a road in an area the market doesn't demand we, the taxpayers, are still on the hook for maintaining them.

China has some very clear examples you can see.

Ghost town built by government:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h7V3Twb-Qk[/ame]

Ghost mall (twice the size of the Mall of America, and world's largest) initiated by government and maintained by it:
Utopia, Part 3: The World's Largest Shopping Mall | POV | PBS Video

This garbage destroys economies and does not help the private sector.

 

[Wry Catcher]

We haven't spent four trillion on wars in other countries. We have spent by now close to 20 trillion on the welfare state in the last forty years and people wonder why we can no longer afford to maintain our infrastructure. 20% of the populous works for state federal or local government another thirty per cent is drawing a government check and you wonder why we have no money to maintain or improve infrastructure?

0

20 trillion dollars on the welfare state? Please provide some proof, my initial take is your post is all partisan hyperbole (aka bull shit).
I heard recently that the entire wealth generated by the United States since it inception was estimated at 50 trillion dollars, and that the policies of GWB resulted in a 6% loss of that value, in just eight years. I don't know if these are real facts, but getting my arms around the number 20,000,000,000,000 takes some effort
So, source the number you used - 20 trillion dollars.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Now these are not exact numbers, but just take a nuclear power plant, now before you all start beating me up on nuclear power, I'm a strong nuclear power advocate. The average plant employ's between 1000 and 1500 people on a perm. basis and thats just the plant, and does not include the additional 2 to 3000 support people. During the constuction phase a power plant creates somewhere around 15 to 20,000 jobs in all phases of consturction. Now it seems to me and maybe this is being too simple I suppose that knowing this and knowing the benefits in terms of jobs, etc. etc. etc. at least to me thats a real stimulus. What seems to be lost on some, is that when these people are employed , they also have healthcare insurance, and in an environment like that, then perhaps, the Govt. could actually focus on real healthcare reform like costs, rather than what some K Street lobby group wants them to focus on.

No, man... you hit the nail square on the head. The absolute best thing for We, The People to be doing right now is hiring ourselves to build lasting infrastructure and educate our young. Those items should take priority over everything but actual* security concerns.

*Actual, as opposed to imaginary, like the WMD's in Iraq.

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Obama said he was going to change things up a bit.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Obama said he was going to change things up a bit.

Yeah, he said he would "change the fundamental way Washington does business..." and after one speech, on Feb 20, '09, he folded up like a rag doll and let the lobbyists write their own insurance and banking reforms.

Unless he grows a pair and follows through on why those of us who voted for him for reasons other than the color of his skin, his legacy will be to have squandered the best opportunity ALL of the people in We, The People have had at self governance since the start of Western 'Civilization'.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Navy is spot on, at least in defining one of the many problems facing our nation; and, 2parties provides and example of why fixing anything is near impossible.
2Parties seems to want to privatize everything done by government, and by inference stop the government from regulating economic matters (i.e. the banking, insurance and health care industries).

Monies spent on infrastructure makes sense, at least when the dollars spent go to domestic improvements and to pay salaries and benefits to Americans (who in turn will pay taxes, and buy goods and services in their communities). Building a $ 700 billion dollar embassy in Iraq was stupid (insane when one takes into consideration an estimated $ 1.3 billion annual operating budget).
2Parties must believe those who build bridges and roads are government employees and concludes they are therefore incompetent.
The fact is investing our tax dollars in such repairs, rebuilds and new roadways provides jobs to the private sector, and as has been shown time and again, the private sector seems to find cost overruns an entitlement.

I just wish all Americans would realize that it is the same thing as doing the needed repairs on your own home.

There is no other way to fix this than to pony up the money to fix it.

WHO amoung you is willing to PAY this bill?

Exactly! But, part of the problem is that we are already paying more in taxes, at least as a percentage, than our grandparents and parents paid when much of the infrastructure was being built in the first place.

Where is the money going?

 

[California Girl]

Obama said he was going to change things up a bit.

Yeah, he said he would "change the fundamental way Washington does business..." and after one speech, on Feb 20, '09, he folded up like a rag doll and let the lobbyists write their own insurance and banking reforms.

Unless he grows a pair and follows through on why those of us who voted for him for reasons other than the color of his skin, his legacy will be to have squandered the best opportunity ALL of the people in We, The People have had at self governance since the start of Western 'Civilization'.

His 'fundamental change' was to push us towards even bigger government. He's just another corrupt puppet, just someone else pulling the strings.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Obama said he was going to change things up a bit.

Yeah, he said he would "change the fundamental way Washington does business..." and after one speech, on Feb 20, '09, he folded up like a rag doll and let the lobbyists write their own insurance and banking reforms.

Unless he grows a pair and follows through on why those of us who voted for him for reasons other than the color of his skin, his legacy will be to have squandered the best opportunity ALL of the people in We, The People have had at self governance since the start of Western 'Civilization'.

His 'fundamental change' was to push us towards even bigger government. He's just another corrupt puppet, just someone else pulling the strings.

I believe that right now, you are spot on California Girl. But I also believe that if he wasn't a true champion of the people on 2-20-09, he deserves an Academy Award for that speech.

I have wondered what changed... what they have on him or offered to him to make him go from crusader to corrupt politician overnight like that. Huggy suggested that 'they' threatened his family - I don't know... I do know that the one and only president to suggest that The Federal Reserve was a bad idea was shot in Dallas 6 months later on November 22, 1963 with no resolution as to the perpetrator or motive.

 

[Douger]

Ahhhh Don't worry about the infrastructure. God will bless it !
In the meantime there is a desperate need to spread FreeDumb and DemoNcracy across the planet.....................and steal all the natural resources on the tour.

Why do they call it a theater ?
Because it a movie they made. You are just the extras in 'their' movie.
Shuddup and pay your taxes.

 

[William Joyce]

There is no other way to fix this than to pony up the money to fix it.

WHO amoung you is willing to PAY this bill?

I don't think this one's a question of unwillingness to pay... who's willing to pay for useless Jew wars in the middle east? Well, they force us to give up the money, so we don't have a choice.

It's about political priorities. Bridges and tunnels in Middle America don't concern the New York-Hollywood-Washington elite... but Jew wars do. So do billions in welfare for blacks, health care for illegal aliens, and crucifixes of Jesus in urine.

So that's where the money goes. Who really doesn't understand that?

 

[saveliberty]

The infrastructure collapse is of the American people. A lack of fiscal conservatism, drive, ambition and vision has left us with the present mess. A situation so bankrupt, that many felt a person without executive experience, radical ideology and a teleprompter could save the day. It is time to get to work people. Rolled up sleeves work that will be thankless and painful.

 

[PeterS]

While many of you may agree or disagree on the Stimulus and those of you who have read my postings on the subject know where I stand. There is no doubt that many of this nations highways, and bridges are falling apart due to decades of neglect. It would seem that to focus on projects that are both long term and short term is a good thing, in terms of jobs and actually stimulating construction and transportation. In my opinion roads and bridges are for the most part other than those that are part of the interstate system an issue for states to resolve. Many of these states are soon going to be faced with massive unfunded mandates from a healthcare bill and almost all of them are facing a budget crisis. Faced with the prospect of cutting in order to meet these mandates it does not bode well for these road projects. It makes much more sense, at least in real terms to actually reform healthcare and the PRIVATE marketplace, rather than to place a burden on the states and continue to watch the infrasctucture crumble.

Road construction and maintenance are funded by dedicated taxes. We have had unfunded mandates in healthcare and social programs administered by the states for decades. I don't see how you are connecting the dots?

For the most part maintenance of our highway systems lies with the States. Over the last two decades we have seen a 4 fold increase in truck traffic yet no correlating increase in state taxes on gas to pay for the maintenance associated with heavier usage. If we want 99cent lead painted toys at our local WalMart we have to pay for them. We don't, hence the crappy state of our highway system. If you want to point at an unfunded mandate here is is...give me roads and the goodies transported on them just don't increase my taxes to pay for them.

If the Fed wants to print money and throw at the problem. Fine! We sure as hell know the states aren't going to don't we...

 

[Navy1960]

Connecting those dots, is very easy, social spending in a state such as Arizona is increasing at a record pace, and it's a given that road traffic has increased and that taxes fund road construction. In Arizona for example, it takes a super majoirty to raise taxes because of a state constitutional amendment. Given the rise in social spending and with additional millions in mandates for social spending i.e. Medicaid, and given the fact that state taxes will not go up anytime soon and the tax base is shrinking because of the massive number of forclosures, what do you think the state will do faced with the choice of building roads or increasing social spending? Thats how the dots are connected in this state. One aspect of those cuts also includes, cut backs in funding for police, fire, and other state funded services as well, and you asked why roads are falling apart? Increased truck traffic is just one part of the overall reason why state roads are falling apart.

 

[PeterS]

Connecting those dots, is very easy, social spending in a state such as Arizona is increasing at a record pace, and it's a given that road traffic has increased and that taxes fund road construction. In Arizona for example, it takes a super majoirty to raise taxes because of a state constitutional amendment. Given the rise in social spending and with additional millions in mandates for social spending i.e. Medicaid, and given the fact that state taxes will not go up anytime soon and the tax base is shrinking because of the massive number of forclosures, what do you think the state will do faced with the choice of building roads or increasing social spending? Thats how the dots are connected in this state. One aspect of those cuts also includes, cut backs in funding for police, fire, and other state funded services as well, and you asked why roads are falling apart? Increased truck traffic is just one part of the overall reason why state roads are falling apart.

Fuel taxes are not part of the general fund, and in fact if they are made part of the general fund then the state looses federal funds. The rate at which unfunded mandates increase is irrelevant...states cannot use fuel tax funds to pay for those expenses.

If you have a peeve aginst health care, fine. But when you use fallacies to make your argument you are stating that you have no argument...else you wouldn't have chosen a fallacy as your proof.

 

[jillian]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

do you remember when I posted threads about this while Bush was preesident?

You guys blew a gasket.

No... Navy never blew a gasket about anything.

You, like the rightwingnuts, need to view the world in a more nuanced fashion and stop attributing some people's nuttiess to others who aren't nutty.

 

[jillian]

Connecting those dots, is very easy, social spending in a state such as Arizona is increasing at a record pace, and it's a given that road traffic has increased and that taxes fund road construction. In Arizona for example, it takes a super majoirty to raise taxes because of a state constitutional amendment. Given the rise in social spending and with additional millions in mandates for social spending i.e. Medicaid, and given the fact that state taxes will not go up anytime soon and the tax base is shrinking because of the massive number of forclosures, what do you think the state will do faced with the choice of building roads or increasing social spending? Thats how the dots are connected in this state. One aspect of those cuts also includes, cut backs in funding for police, fire, and other state funded services as well, and you asked why roads are falling apart? Increased truck traffic is just one part of the overall reason why state roads are falling apart.

How much of the State's "social spending" results from us NOT providing health care for our citizens?

that said, I'd have been all for putting the stimulus into infrastructure projects. If you recall, the repubs went balistic, demanded that the stimulus bill be largely made up of more tax cuts ...

and then refused to vote for it.

I never did understand why anyone agreed to that.

 

[Truthmatters]

"You guys blew a gasket"

Is what I said.

Yes they did blow a gasket ,just go read the thread.

 

[garyd]

I said the same thing then that I do now. UnfundedFederal mandates for medicare and medicaid amng other things have meant that states many of which have balanced budget amendments simply have not had the money to do proper maintenance.

Most states have long depended on federal matching funds - often called pork - for maintenance of existing highways and construction of new ones.

By the way a four fold increase in truck traffic would automatically guarantee that the states would receive four times as much actual revenue from that source.