Americans claim guns make for a safe society

[M14 Shooter]

If we got rid of every single gun in america right now all the people who want to go out and hurt others will still be here.

But the state would have a monopoly on force -- and that's the goal.

 

[2aguy]

Yes, we do target practice, shooting for sport etc.. in the UK. All that is not a problem, never has been. The problem is, people are not safe, you might be, your neighbour might, but the lunatic that shot you wasn't. Now, you will never ever stop all lunatics, but you can greatly reduce them. So all you need to do is to have a culture that thinks prancing about with guns in public is wrong, locking them away securely when not in use is the norm and a must, and the person owning the gun is mentally safe, clean police background, sound medical background, sane family members, and is not stupid to think it's required to shoot others.

Laws and regs do not stop, they reduce. That's why laws and regs on the road often change, to reduce accidents and deaths.

Gun nuts are frightened of such a system because of paranoia, "OMG my government will go tyrannical, bka blah crap", and many know they would fail the UK application process.

And how do gun nuts push this common sense to one side? MOUTH FROTH, "RIGHTS". The most retarded folk on the planet.

Yeah...the people of Venezuela would like you to call them.....

 

[2aguy]

Correct, that's why guns are not removed in the UK either. Your post is just totally littered with fear and paranoia.

What would make America safe? Having a gun policy that the likes of Australia, New Zealand, UK etc.. enjoy. Plus you need a culture that has the right orientation towards guns. So how do you get this culture where you feel it's wrong to have a gun in a public place, to make sure it's well locked away and secure when not in use? Well, that takes generations, it does not and cannot happen overnight. The 'wrong minded' generations need to die out out of the old thinking.

I decide to have a shot gun. I apply for the shotgun and/or a firearm licence. Do I just buy one? Am I safe? What does my police record show? What does my medical history show? What does my driving licence show? I supply one referee for a shotgun application and two for a firearm application, they get interviewed and asked questions about me, did I pass? My household family are interviewed, did I pass? For a shotgun, they need to find something in that process to decline me. So I check out. So they turn up to my house with the shotgun licence, but they need to check I have an adequate lockable cabinet bolted to a solid wall, and a separate lockable box for the cartridges. It checks out, now I can go buy a shotgun, the gun shops won't sell a shotgun without the certificate. What about a firearm? A rifle, an Uzi? So process as before but now I need a reason. So I'm part of a shooting range, excellent, here's your licence.

I can put them in a bag or case and transport them in my car. I can lock them in my safe. I can drive to a shoot or a gun range and then use them. Deviate from that and if the police find out, kiss your guns goodbye.

Are all my enemies coming to murder me? Has my government gone tyrannical? Are criminals lying in wait for me? Are guns banned? Erm, no, that's an American paranoid problem.

Hand on heart, would you pass the test above? If you do, excellent, enjoy guns. You didn't? Oh well, you and you alone were responsible for you to be considered safe. Say to the police, "I need the gun for self defence and shoot someone". Do you think that reason will allow you that gun in the UK?

First step, scrap the 2nd A. Then as the decades move on, buy back programs, gun education, generations die out etc.. then you can feel safer.

On one side of the coin, Americans try to cheer lowering crime in the USA, how crime is bad in the UK etc.. So if that's true, you don't need to hand guns out to any Tom Dick and Harry, do you?

Europe...

In the 1920s, they began the process of registering guns....to make their people safer. That was the lie. by the mid 1930s, the socialists in Germany began the process of banning and confiscating guns, and the same for the countries they defeated......using the gun registration lists created in the 1920s....

By 1939, the German socialists began to murder 15 million - 20 million people....in 6 years.....men, women and over 1 million children.

6 years, 15 million- 20 million murdered citizens..not war dead, innocent people rounded up and murdered in camps and forests....

Including 1 million children

15 million in 6 years.

In the United States, gun murder for our entire 247 year history?

Around 2,470,000

Europe.... 15-20 million in 6 years.

U.S..... 2,470,000 in 247 years

How many hundreds of years will it take the U.S. to catch up with the number of Europeans murdered by their governments.....

Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?

Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct

There are roughly 100,000 people shot in the United States yearly, and something over 30,000 die. If this 1/3 vs. 2/3 ratio of deaths to injuries in actual shootings pertains in these DGUs, that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—less some attackers who lost their lives to defenders. This enormous benefit dwarfs, both in human and economic terms, the losses trumpeted by hoplophobes who only choose to see the risk side of the equation.

Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct

 

[2aguy]

Correct, that's why guns are not removed in the UK either. Your post is just totally littered with fear and paranoia.

What would make America safe? Having a gun policy that the likes of Australia, New Zealand, UK etc.. enjoy. Plus you need a culture that has the right orientation towards guns. So how do you get this culture where you feel it's wrong to have a gun in a public place, to make sure it's well locked away and secure when not in use? Well, that takes generations, it does not and cannot happen overnight. The 'wrong minded' generations need to die out out of the old thinking.

I decide to have a shot gun. I apply for the shotgun and/or a firearm licence. Do I just buy one? Am I safe? What does my police record show? What does my medical history show? What does my driving licence show? I supply one referee for a shotgun application and two for a firearm application, they get interviewed and asked questions about me, did I pass? My household family are interviewed, did I pass? For a shotgun, they need to find something in that process to decline me. So I check out. So they turn up to my house with the shotgun licence, but they need to check I have an adequate lockable cabinet bolted to a solid wall, and a separate lockable box for the cartridges. It checks out, now I can go buy a shotgun, the gun shops won't sell a shotgun without the certificate. What about a firearm? A rifle, an Uzi? So process as before but now I need a reason. So I'm part of a shooting range, excellent, here's your licence.

I can put them in a bag or case and transport them in my car. I can lock them in my safe. I can drive to a shoot or a gun range and then use them. Deviate from that and if the police find out, kiss your guns goodbye.

Are all my enemies coming to murder me? Has my government gone tyrannical? Are criminals lying in wait for me? Are guns banned? Erm, no, that's an American paranoid problem.

Hand on heart, would you pass the test above? If you do, excellent, enjoy guns. You didn't? Oh well, you and you alone were responsible for you to be considered safe. Say to the police, "I need the gun for self defence and shoot someone". Do you think that reason will allow you that gun in the UK?

First step, scrap the 2nd A. Then as the decades move on, buy back programs, gun education, generations die out etc.. then you can feel safer.

On one side of the coin, Americans try to cheer lowering crime in the USA, how crime is bad in the UK etc.. So if that's true, you don't need to hand guns out to any Tom Dick and Harry, do you?

You are living on borrowed time.....the muslims in your country are importing guns....and they don't care about your laws.....

 

[protectionist]

UK - In 2021 Gun homicides was 35

USA - In 2021 Gun homicides was 21,000

This is because there are far fewer guns owned in the UK.

Also most "Gun homicides" are self-defense (a good thing)

So if there are so much less self-defense homicides in the UK, then what is happening to all the victims of attacks, who didn't have a gun to defense themselves ?
Answer: they all got raped, beaten, killed.

PS - some Democrats support carrying a gun >>

 

[Captain Caveman]

This is because there are far fewer guns owned in the UK.

Also most "Gun homicides" are self-defense (a good thing)

So if there are so much less self-defense homicides in the UK, then what is happening to all the victims of attacks, who didn't have a gun to defense themselves ?
Answer: they all got raped, beaten, killed.

PS - some Democrats support carrying a gun >>

View attachment 1011645

Everyone in the UK can apply for a gun if they wish to and they're also responsible on how they led their lives. History has proven what elements on police, medical etc.. records leads to an unsuitable gun owner/user, but that is down to the individual. Guns weren't taken off them, it was their fault for proving they're unsuitable. The 2nd simply bypasses that, hence why America's gun stats are some of the worst ion the planet.

The defence idea is a fallacy and women in the US don't carry guns against rape.

I think you need to start posting credible links to studies that support your opinions because they're wrong. The NRA pamphlet is not a credible source.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Gun nuts, stop embarrassing yourselves, use -

Get the Facts - Project Unloaded

It’s the guns. Gun violence touches every corner of America. But where there are fewer guns, there are fewer gun deaths. Scroll down to learn why Jump to resources The United States is in the midst of a gun violence epidemic. On the average day in America, more than 130 people are killed by gun […]

projectunloaded.org

And click on the studies. The stats make your posts laughable.

 

[cnm]

Can you see why guns are the problem?

They refuse to look. That is the problem.

 

[westwall]

Everyone in the UK can apply for a gun if they wish to and they're also responsible on how they led their lives. History has proven what elements on police, medical etc.. records leads to an unsuitable gun owner/user, but that is down to the individual. Guns weren't taken off them, it was their fault for proving they're unsuitable. The 2nd simply bypasses that, hence why America's gun stats are some of the worst ion the planet.

The defence idea is a fallacy and women in the US don't carry guns against rape.

I think you need to start posting credible links to studies that support your opinions because they're wrong. The NRA pamphlet is not a credible source.

Can apply for, but never get. That's how the "authorities do it. The local copper doesn't like you, you never get your permit.

 

[Bell Huey]

UK - In 2021 Gun homicides was 35

USA - In 2021 Gun homicides was 21,000

In the UK, 0.08 per 100,000 are killed by knives

In the USA, 0.6 per 100,000 are killed by knives

So clearly guns have the opposite effect.

I have heard an armed society makes for a polite society.

 

[Bell Huey]

They refuse to look. That is the problem.

Just curious....when you feel you or your family are under physcal threat who do you call? The guys with guns?

'nuff said and go back to the sewer where you belong. Tell your buds to stop running from the definition of a loaded weapon. I was right and they are now in hiding.

 

[Captain Caveman]

I have heard an armed society makes for a polite society.

Well, the US ain't a great advert for that saying.

 

[Bell Huey]

Well, the US ain't a great advert for that saying.

Really? There are at least 400 million firearms in the hands of citizens. I would argue otherwise.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Really? There are at least 400 million firearms in the hands of citizens. I would argue otherwise.

The "hands" of citizens is 32% maximum.

If it's a polite society, why do you all shoot so many? It's so polite, you lock more citizens away then any other country. So you may need to examine your argument.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The "hands" of citizens is 32% maximum.

If it's a polite society, why do you all shoot so many? It's so polite, you lock more citizens away then any other country. So you may need to examine your argument.

WE don't (meaning the law-abiding gun owners). The USA has a small sub-class of violent criminals that liberals refuse to properly and severely punish for their actions. Take that two or three percent of the population out of the equation and the US violent (not merely gun violence, but general violence, rates drop to well below yours.

 

[Captain Caveman]

WE don't (meaning the law-abiding gun owners). The USA has a small sub-class of violent criminals that liberals refuse to properly and severely punish for their actions. Take that two or three percent of the population out of the equation and the US violent (not merely gun violence, but general violence, rates drop to well below yours.

Claiming what you're wanting it to be by hypothetical actions is funny. Just stick to reality. But your post did make me giggle.

 

[2aguy]

Gun nuts, stop embarrassing yourselves, use -

Get the Facts - Project Unloaded

It’s the guns. Gun violence touches every corner of America. But where there are fewer guns, there are fewer gun deaths. Scroll down to learn why Jump to resources The United States is in the midst of a gun violence epidemic. On the average day in America, more than 130 people are killed by gun […]

projectunloaded.org

And click on the studies. The stats make your posts laughable.

A woman who is afraid of being raped or murdered by 3rd world illegal aliens allowed into Britain can't get a gun permit because self defense is not a legitimate reason to own a gun.

A wealthy member of the House of Lords, who wants to go bird hunting on one of his private estates with his rich buddies easily gets a gun permit because bird hunting is a legitimate reason to own a gun.

I think I'll keep our 2nd Amendment and our Right to stop rape, robbery, beatings, stabbings, and murders...

Europe...

In the 1920s, they began the process of registering guns....to make their people safer. That was the lie. by the mid 1930s, the socialists in Germany began the process of banning and confiscating guns, and the same for the countries they defeated......using the gun registration lists created in the 1920s....

By 1939, the German socialists began to murder 15 million - 20 million people....in 6 years.....men, women and over 1 million children.

6 years, 15 million- 20 million murdered citizens..not war dead, innocent people rounded up and murdered in camps and forests....

Including 1 million children

15 million in 6 years.

In the United States, gun murder for our entire 247 year history?

Around 2,470,000

Europe.... 15-20 million murdered in 6 years.

U.S..... 2,470,000 murdered in 247 years

How many hundreds of years will it take the U.S. to catch up with the number of Europeans murdered by their governments.....

Lives saved....based on research? By law abiding gun owners using guns to stop criminals?

Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct

There are roughly 100,000 people shot in the United States yearly, and something over 30,000 die. If this 1/3 vs. 2/3 ratio of deaths to injuries in actual shootings pertains in these DGUs, that makes for at least 176,000 lives saved—less some attackers who lost their lives to defenders. This enormous benefit dwarfs, both in human and economic terms, the losses trumpeted by hoplophobes who only choose to see the risk side of the equation.

Case Closed: Kleck Is Still Correct

 

[M14 Shooter]

Claiming what you're wanting it to be by hypothetical actions is funny. Just stick to reality. But your post did make me giggle.

You are such a thick retard. Utter pig shit thick retard. Full on thick retard. The chief retard of thickness.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Also most "Gun homicides" are self-defense (a good thing)

Despite reality and statistics showing that self defence by gun is rare, many gun owners still believe it's rampant -

Self-Defense Gun Use is Rare, New Violence Policy Center Study Confirms, Violence Policy Center

For Release: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 Washington, DC — New research from the Violence Policy Center (VPC) confirms that, contrary to what the...

vpc.org

But the problem is, if one's beliefs is that self defence by gun is rampant, reality won't alter their mind. One tactic is to attack the source, but attacking the source doesn't make reality go away.

 

[protectionist]

Everyone in the UK can apply for a gun if they wish to and they're also responsible on how they led their lives. History has proven what elements on police, medical etc.. records leads to an unsuitable gun owner/user, but that is down to the individual. Guns weren't taken off them, it was their fault for proving they're unsuitable. The 2nd simply bypasses that, hence why America's gun stats are some of the worst ion the planet.

The defence idea is a fallacy and women in the US don't carry guns against rape.

I think you need to start posting credible links to studies that support your opinions because they're wrong. The NRA pamphlet is not a credible source.

I am not wrong,

Despite reality and statistics showing that self defence by gun is rare, many gun owners still believe it's rampant -

Self-Defense Gun Use is Rare, New Violence Policy Center Study Confirms, Violence Policy Center

For Release: Wednesday, September 12, 2018 Washington, DC — New research from the Violence Policy Center (VPC) confirms that, contrary to what the...

vpc.org

But the problem is, if one's beliefs is that self defence by gun is rampant, reality won't alter their mind. One tactic is to attack the source, but attacking the source doesn't make reality go away.

Reality might alter a previous belief but a "study" won't. Personally, I don't accept "studies" as being = to reality, and very many are BS scams, designed to foster an agenda, while disguised as truth.

Generally, studies are piles of crap, developed by leftwing think tanks & universities, often leaving out major aspects of common sense.
For instance, ths study purports to conclude that self defense by gun is uncommon, and bases that on reported cases of justifiable homicide.

This is flawed for 2 main reasons. Most cases of gun self-defense involve scenarios were a gun was shown and not (didnt have to be) fired.
Secondly, most cases of gun self defense are not reported.

That's one of the problems with the left. As soon as they get something that is written (by a source friendly to them), they believe it.
Following up on my contention that "studies"are as often a joke than not, I present this example >>>

The goofball Stephens-Davidowitz "racism" study : in this "research", published as "undeniable" in the New York Times, it was contended that some places in the US were more racist than other places. The study contended that because 57% of Denver, CO, voted for Obama in 2008, and only 48% of Wheeling WV did, that Wheeling was the 7th most "racist" city in America, while Denver was the 4th most “enlightened” city.

Problems here are twofold. First, in places like the Times, the only 1 dimension at play was Obama's race. The Stephens-Davidowitz study failed to consider that Obama was the most fabulous, celebrity-backed candidate for president in a long time - something more important to people in Denver, than in West Virginia.

Secondly, on Nov. 2, 2008, two days before the election, Obama vowed to bankrupt the coal industry. He threatened to impose huge fines on coal companies for emissions of greenhouse gases. West Virginia's economy is 99% (energy) and 60% (business taxes) dependent on coal. The real way to test Stephens-Davidowitz theory about West Virginians would be to run a non-flashy black candidate who had not pledged to destroy the coal industry, and THEN compare votes.

Here's an alternative to the faulty Stephens-Davidowitz study that the New York Times admired so much >> A conservative writer did a study on states' inclinations to racism, also. In that study, different states were compared by participation in the military - an institution with a high level of close quarter racial mixing, jaw to jaw, in military barracks (hell for racists).

The least racist states were Montana, Texas, Wyoming, Alabama, Alaska, and Idaho. The most racist ones were Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, and Vermont.