American problem

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jtfielding

Guest
What Bush and his Neocons are doing to the world at the moment is unforgivable but their actions in Iraq and Afghanistan are the same as that of every American president over the last 50 years, Republican or Democratic.

Over the last 50 years, America has killed 8 million people and supported, funded, trained, got into power, aided and armed countless dictators and terrorist regimes, including Saddam, Al Quaeda, Pol Pot etc.

The normal way to go about instigating a regime change in a country is to fund a nearby group of insurgents or militants or a neighbouring government and fight your war by proxy. There are countless examples of this over the last 50 years from Columbia to Cambodia.

Bush's mistake was being arrogant and ill informed enough to believe that he could really ride into Iraq after 9/11 on a wave of jingoistic flag waving and in full view of the rest of the world enact a pre existing plan to further Pax Americana.

And yet of course, he almost got away with it, such is the mentality of the American masses. If your memory can stretch back that far, over 60% of the public supported him at the time he went in and it was only as it finally became clear to many of the 'patriotic' Americans that this was one war that would never be won and the body bags started coming home, did the support start to fall to its current level of about 40%.

If Bush loses and Kerry becomes the next president, nothing will change in the world unless he makes a concerted effort to change America's foreign policy which has remained the same for the last 50 years - that of supporting dictators, terrorist regimes, 'rogue' states etc when it supports them and causing wars, dragging the rest of the world in when they are no longer useful and need to be 'removed'.

There are plenty of real problems in the world right now, Muslim terrorists being one of them. However, Bush has not addressed this problem, instead he has exacerbated it by invading an innocent country, committing war crimes and mass murder and making it quite clear the real reasons why. He has not made the world a safer place, he has made it an unsafe place and I for one do not wish to spend the next 50 years facing fabricated wars on terror and living in an international air of fear and uncertainty so that American politicians can line their own corporate nests and fu*ck up the world along the way.

Americans like to talk about the British Empire, but when Britain ruled the world from a tiny island 100 years ago, if you pissed someone off the worst thing they could do was spear your local ambassador.

There was no worry about chemical weapons, no fear of biological attack, no nightmarish nuclear Armageddon scenario and no fully laden jumbo jets being used as guided missiles.

The time for global empires is over and America needs to realise that before they bring about WWIII.
 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Blah Blah Blah.....Heard all this before!! Find the political race thread and support your fave there!! this is the type of thread that is going to get you more than you asked for!





Typical response from a typical American sheep. No factual rebuttal, no ability to counter with anything other than blanket denial.

Classic response.

If you want to live in a fantasy world and spend your life ignoring facts you can't bear to acknowledge that don't meet your bigoted ignorant narrow minded agenda then log off.

If you come onto the Internet and into the real world, you'll be forced to meet people who CAN make factual observations about the real world and you'll be put in your place accordingly.
 
Originally posted by jtfielding
If you want to live in a fantasy world and spend your life ignoring facts you can't bear to acknowledge that don't meet your bigoted ignorant narrow minded agenda then log off.

I'd suggest laying off the attacks if you want to contribute to the board.
 
I always had a problem with Bush's rush to war. Hussein was contained and with the international community focused on him, I don't think he would have attacked us or any neighboring countries.
I also feel that if we had give the UN inspectors until the fall of 2003 to do their job, we might have brought more allies on board with us, and perhaps world opinion may have been on our side. It's also possible those extra months may have shed more light on Iraq's weapons programs and weapons stockpiles.


Obviously, we can't change what has been done. Now we should transfer power to the Iraqis as soon as possible, and start bringing our troops home.
 
Originally posted by ana2rosa2003
I also feel that if we had give the UN inspectors until the fall of 2003 to do their job, we might have brought more allies on board with us, and perhaps world opinion may have been on our side. It's also possible those extra months may have shed more light on Iraq's weapons programs and weapons stockpiles.

Why do you think things would have mysteriously changed after Iraq never fully complied in the first 12 years? Do you really think a few months would make a difference when they thumbed their noses at the UN for the prior 12 years?
 
You have a point, but my point was mainly that it was important for us to have world opinion our side, much like George HW Bush did in 1991. Considering we did let Hussein break UN resolutions for 12 years, the extra time likely would not have changed Hussein's attitude, but it may have changed those of our allies.
 
<<<<<We didn't the U.N. let Hussein bread the resolutions. Bush finally put an end to it.>>>>>


When I said 'we' I was referring to the allies and the UN collectively. During Clinton's presidency he tried to get the UN to act, but he ran into the same problems Bush faced.
 
The forums here are much better than Yahoo, but there is not enough activity. :) You can't have everything, I guess.
 
Thank you! I'm sure I'll be active on here in the future. I have started to get sick of the name calling and racism on Yahoo, so maybe this will be a way to have a more intelligent debate.


One question: How do I quote the message I'm replying to?:D
 
Over the last 50 years, America has killed 8 million people and supported, funded, trained, got into power, aided and armed countless dictators and terrorist regimes, including Saddam, Al Quaeda, Pol Pot etc.

and then:

The normal way to go about instigating a regime change in a country is to fund a nearby group of insurgents or militants or a neighbouring government and fight your war by proxy

(normal to whom?)

and THEN:

America's foreign policy which has remained the same for the last 50 years - that of supporting dictators, terrorist regimes, 'rogue' states etc when it supports them and causing wars, dragging the rest of the world in when they are no longer useful and need to be 'removed'.

:wtf:

There are plenty of real problems in the world right now, Muslim terrorists being one of them. However, Bush has not addressed this problem

There are plenty of real problems in the world right now. However, America cannot be police to all of them. We've been busy hunting down terrorists in Afghanistan, Iraq, and trying to help get some kind of stability in Haiti, keep the problem in North Korea to some kind of level, among others. If you're so worried about the Muslim world, how about sending a quick note to Tony Blair.

Your whole post contradicts itself. First, you're pointing out all of the people America has killed.. then you move on to say that we should just give money to insurgents and let them handle governments who need regime changeand let them kill them, and then you complain because the United States isnt taking care of the Muslim problems. In a nutshell: 1) we're doing too much, 2) we're not backing insurgents 2) we're not doing enough.

And you're surprised that you didnt get a "factual response?"

If you come onto the Internet and into the real world, you'll be forced to meet people who CAN make factual observations about the real world and you'll be put in your place accordingly

and YOU'RE that person? mmmm kay. :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Sir Evil
Look to the lower right hand corner of the message, there is a quote button!

You will find some Intelligent debaters here, in fact most are!
However you will also find you share of the name calling and racism also! Just have fun with it, or ignore it!:)



Great, thank you!
 
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hey there big fella, I was suggesting that these topics have been covered already, and if you like to go over the same old stuff you can plan on getting a lot more than you expected when looking at the replies! So sit back, cool off, and enjoy the board! NO TROLL'S ALLOWED!!


OK, my apologies....
 
lilcountriegal, your post demonstrates the typical ignorance, obfuscation, reality denial and word twisting so beloved of the type of American I was talking about.

In my initial post I made several factual points, not necessarily anything to do with each other. I suggest you read the post again and try and take in what was said one sentence at a time.

Then, verify what I was saying for yourself.

Go on the Internet or go down to your library and educate yourself.

Learn how America (and other countries around the world) fight their proxy wars and fu*ck up other countries by putting in puppet dictators to suit their own means. Here's a few to get you started:


Some American kill totals over the last 50 years...

1952 - 79, 70,000 Iranians killed. ( Ayatollah Khomeini, US public enemy for the 1980s, was on the CIA payroll while in exile in Paris in 1970s, as were Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden at different times and in different places. )

1954 - 120,000 Guatemalans killed

1954 - 1975, 4,000,000 Vietnamese and Cambodians killed.

1965 - 3,000 Dominican Republicans killed

1965 - 800,000 Indonesians killed

1973 - 30,000 Chileans killed

1975 - 250,000 East Timorese killed

1970s - 1,000,000 Angolans killed

1984 - 30,000 Nicaraguans killed

1980s - 80,000 El Salvadoreans killed

1989 - 8,000 Panamanians killed in an attempt to capture George H. Bush's CIA partner now turned enemy, Manuel Noriega,

1980s - over 700,000 Libyans, Grenadians, Somalians, Haitians, Afghanistanis, Sudanese, Brazilians, Argentineans and Yugoslavians killed,

1991 - over 1,000,000 Iraqis killed, including over 500,000 children -- about which Madeline Albright ( then, Secretary of State ) said "their deaths are worth the cost". While George W. Bush owns over 80% of the oil wells in Kuwait, trouble will continue there.

3,000-3,400 civilians killed in Afghanistan conflict, October 7, 2001-March 2002 from US bombing.


At the end of the day, you either WANT to educate yourself and find out the truth or you wish to remain wilfully ignorant.

Refusing to acknowledge reality like a Nazi holocaust denier only hurts you and the impression people have of you in the end and having an agenda to push a reality that makes you feel comfortable simply gets you dismissed as just another American sheep.

I repeat what I said in an earlier post....

If you want to live on planet America, stay off the net or you'll run into truths you can't handle.
 
1954 - 1975, 4,000,000 Vietnamese and Cambodians killed.
Why don't you mention all the people murdered by the Viet Cong, NVA, and the Khmer Rouge.

When was Bin Laden on the payroll? What did the US have to do with deaths in Somalia, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Brazil in the 1980s? Where do you mention all those murdered by Saddam? What about all the people killed by Communists in the former USSR, China and North Korea?
 
Originally posted by MtnBiker
jtfeilding hasn't been to that part of the internet yet.


People like jtfielding always conveniently forget the atrocities committed by other countries so they can bash America.
 
75% of the deaths he mentioned he won't be able to link the U.S. directly to. He'll say something about CIA involvement or puppet dictators but to link a U.S. finger to the trigger he can't do it. Its the same old thing with people who live outside U.S. and are extremely jealous.

The 1,000,000 Iraqis killed and 500,000 children is the classic line given by anti war and anti U.S. activists but its been disproved so many times that its actually laughable that he would pull that one out now.

If you read his post and decipher it he's saying we deserved 9/11 and should sit back and keep our mouths shut and do nothing about it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Forum List

Back
Top