America is reaching a boiling point no longer a melting pot

[thereisnospoon]

the left truly believes that conservatives are greedy capitalist that care only for themselves ,and the right truly believes that liberals are anti capitalist ,Godless socialist that are trying to destroy our country !!! the hatred between these two groups is reaching a boiling point !!! is there anyway to avoid a civil war ??

The People marching on Wall street with their Insane demands, you know the ones who Obama said he understands?
(Can't under stand a Peaceful movement, With Reasonable Demands like say the Tea Party, but he Gets a Mob of Idiots begging for Hand outs just fine.) They are Anti Capitalist.

What insane demands?

You know what's insane? Flat wages for the better part of the last three decades..while some .01% of Americans are taking home almost 40% of the profit.

You "Let em eat cake" types are what is ruining this country.

Define ""the profit".

 

[Dragon]

Market rates dictate what you have to pay to get people that can do the job. I can't hire a GOOD pc tech for less than $15/hr, or else I'll get some dumbass who can't meet the quality needed.

"Market rates" don't exist in a vacuum. They are strongly influenced by government policies. That $15/hour you pay for a PC tech would be a good deal higher if the government were not so generous about handing out work visas to skilled technicians from south Asia, who draw prevailing wages down.

Beyond that, corp execs are saying that the reason they don't locate in the states is not because of wages, it's because of the extra cost from regulations it takes to do so. So they go overseas.

If they say that, they lie. All you have to do to see this is engage in a little basic arithmetic. When labor costs in a third-world country are less than ten percent of labor costs in the U.S. for the same work, the savings in labor costs utterly dwarf any savings on regulations -- assuming those even exist, which isn't necessarily the case.

Consider a factory to make clothing. Garment workers in the U.S. make around $12 per hour. Moving the factory to Indonesia or Bangladesh or somewhere like that lets the factory owner pay $1.20 per hour for the same work (or less). If the factory runs on 40,000 hours of work annually (which is roughly 200 workers working full-time), that difference in wages saves the company $432,000. If the same company builds twenty such factories in third-world countries, the overall savings come to $8,640,000. You seriously want us to believe that regulations on twenty small factories cost that much?

It's simple, to keep jobs here, we have to make an environment that will bring them here.

No, given that kind of labor-cost differential, to keep those particular jobs here is impossible, absent draconian levels of protectionism. The only jobs that will stay here are ones that, for one reason or another, have to stay here.

On the other hand I do agree that corruption on wall st and in the banks needs to end. BUT you also have to go after the gov't. All politicians are corrupt, every single one, and they are in bed with the banks and wall street, yes even Obama.

Oh, I agree with this. But one thing that's being pointed up now is the connection between Wall Street and Washington. They key word in what you said above is "also." And "also" it is -- not "instead."

 

[thereisnospoon]

the left truly believes that conservatives are greedy capitalist that care only for themselves ,and the right truly believes that liberals are anti capitalist ,Godless socialist that are trying to destroy our country !!! the hatred between these two groups is reaching a boiling point !!! is there anyway to avoid a civil war ??

The People marching on Wall street with their Insane demands, you know the ones who Obama said he understands?
(Can't under stand a Peaceful movement, With Reasonable Demands like say the Tea Party, but he Gets a Mob of Idiots begging for Hand outs just fine.) They are Anti Capitalist.

I hope you understand it's our patriotic duty as US Citizens to assemble if we perceive we are being violated in some way? Protests are one of the most patriotic things you can do. These people should be held up as a shining example of a real citizen, someone willing to stand up for themselves.

There are so few people like this left in the US.

SO what if they are wrong? They are still doing what too few people are willing to do anymore.

In thoery, you are correct. Civil discourse can affect change in the status quo.
However, the message and demands these people are presenting is out in left field.
As a matter of fact, these protesters have no message. They don't know what they want.
One item in their list of demands makes no sense. Based on their demand to see the end of fossil fuels, their demand for one trillion dollars in infrastructure money in which they want included are ROADS and Electrical grid improvements.
Ok, without fuel to power vehicles and coal/gas to generate electricity, why spend the Trillion?...Dummies.
These people are a reprise of the 60's protesters who had no clue what they wanted. Only thing they wanted was "something else". Funny thing is a vast majority of those people decided it was time to join the establishment because homelessness and the absence of proper bathing and sanitary facilities appeared to be a pretty shitty future.

 

[thereisnospoon]

And that's the problem.

You think that one person having 48 billion dollars is not a problem.

What I think is a Problem is the Fact that you think it's not their money. Where do you get off laying claim to the Wealth others have created? I am proud to say I have no Problem with one person having 48 Billion dollars when they earn it. It is a testimate to the Truth of the Liberal Bias in our Media, Schools, and Entertainment that you think there is some thing wrong with one person having 48 Billion dollars. You do realize when that person was earning that 48 Billion they paid taxes on it. They Contributed Big TIME to our Revenue, By being Productive and making Money. You want to say to every American that no matter how hard you try, you will never make it real Big, Because people should not be able to have that much Money. Talk about Killing Incentive, and Innovation, and the American Dream. This Country was built, and became the Greatest Nation on earth, in large part because of the Dream of being able to start from nothing and end up having 48 Billion dollars. If Obama has his way, we might as well never strive to do better than 199,999,99 a year lest we become the evil Rich. LOL

The point here is this, Raising the Minimum wage to 20 Dollars wont really change anything. The Cost of Living will sky rocket and making 20 Bucks an hour will end up being just like making 7.50 an hour is today. Only now all your retired people living on SS, or other Fixed Incomes are fucked because their Income never changed despite the Massive Inflation that would accompany such a large raise in the Minimum Wage.

Um..no.

I don't think you can tell me one innovation, one idea, one anything that didn't come about without government help.

Is there one industrialist that cleared his own forest alone, mined his own materials alone, built his own factory alone, produced his own goods alone, built the roads to ship them alone, shipped them alone, found buyers alone or most anything that it takes to accrue wealth, alone?

Go on.

Go.

We had this insane problem before the new deal. Where the Robber Barons thought they were "entitled" to the lion's share of everything. That caused a near collapse of America. We were teetering on the brink.

And we are getting there again. Thanks to conservative policies..and rollbacks of labor and consumer protections.

You give government far too much credit.
To answer your question....most of them.
If you are referring to government contracts, that's incorrect.
Innovation and creation of technology always begins in the private sector.
Government arrives after the fact.
Yes there is some research funded by government grants for things government desires.
At the end of the day, it is government that OFFERS money. Not the other way around.
If government intervention in the private sector ended today, little would change. Business would not stop innovating, new products and services would not stop evolving.
What is a "rollback in labor"?
BTW, the federal government does not have a factory, forestry people( lumber cutters), cannot build cars or anything else for that matter.
You post implies that government is the answer to everything.

 

[thereisnospoon]

the left truly believes that conservatives are greedy capitalist that care only for themselves ,and the right truly believes that liberals are anti capitalist ,Godless socialist that are trying to destroy our country !!! the hatred between these two groups is reaching a boiling point !!! is there anyway to avoid a civil war ??

yes there is.


For all of us to fight the real enemy who wants us at each others throats.

The banksters and wallstreet

You are halfway there. It is government that sets policy that keeps people in a contentious frame of mind.
Most of the blame goes to the left wing of the democrat party.
BTW, have you ever done a little digging into where the DNC gets most of it's funding?
Those very same wealthy people, bankers and corporations they are using as political fodder. That is where the hypocrisy lies.

 

[thereisnospoon]

What I think is a Problem is the Fact that you think it's not their money. Where do you get off laying claim to the Wealth others have created? I am proud to say I have no Problem with one person having 48 Billion dollars when they earn it.

Yeah......let's Hear It!! for all o' those.....

....$mall Bu$ine$$men!!!!!!

why the fuck can't you post without using gigantic signs and billboards ??? is it because you are a little man suffering from Napoleonic Syndrome ??? you are an idiotic communist loser that blames your own personal failures on someone else !!!

I refer to shaman as Mr Big font

 

[thereisnospoon]

the left truly believes that conservatives are greedy capitalist that care only for themselves ,and the right truly believes that liberals are anti capitalist ,Godless socialist that are trying to destroy our country !!! the hatred between these two groups is reaching a boiling point !!! is there anyway to avoid a civil war ??

Sure! Realize that you. as a Conservative, have been duped by corporations and the wealthy to do their bidding and you have learned that their philosophy of demonizing the American worker and the measures taken to keep him safe at work and in his environment are basically evil.

Once you learn some valuable lessons, namely cutting taxes for the rich while raising them for the middle class will diminish disposable income for those who need it just to get by, will ruin the American standard of living.

And that's what a flat tax will do.

No. A flat tax is the ultimate in fairness. The more one earns, the more they pay.
Same as sales taxes. The more one spends, the more one pays.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Sure! Realize that you. as a Conservative, have been duped by corporations and the wealthy to do their bidding and you have learned that their philosophy of demonizing the American worker and the measures taken to keep him safe at work and in his environment are basically evil.

Once you learn some valuable lessons, namely cutting taxes for the rich while raising them for the middle class will diminish disposable income for those who need it just to get by, will ruin the American standard of living.

And that's what a flat tax will do.

I work hard and when things get tough I WORK HARDER !!why should people like you be allowed to dictate my success ??

Congratulations on "earning" more than $250,000 each and every year! Those of us making less than $50,000 could us a break now.

A break from what? Most people who earn less than 50k have no or little federal income tax liability. A break? If any one group who has as small a stake in what government provides, it is the lower income levels. If they want things, they should have to pay up just like everyone else.
A break....That's whining. Everybody hates a whiner.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Oh I fully disagree with them on just about every point they have. But they are true Americans for standing up for what they believe. If we all did this America would be a much better place.

What points do you disagree with? Here are some of the points I'm getting out of their movement to Occupy Wall Street:

• In 1965 CEOs were paid 26 times that of their average worker. In 1980 40 times. In 1989, it was 72 times. In 1999 it had risen to 310 times, and today, according to data from the accounting firm, Towers Perrin, survey it has reached 500 times.
  
• Banks were bailed out by the US Taxpayer. They wouldn't exist if not for the 99% of us making sure they didn't lose their job and yet the banks aren't lending so that businesses can hire are they?
  
• Companies bailed out by the US Taxpayer aren't hiring...in the United States.
  
• The top 0.1 percent of the population (those making about $1.7 million or more) saw the sharpest increase in income share, taking home 2.6% of the nation’s earnings in 1975 and 10.4% in 2008. The wealthiest 10 percent earned almost the same amount of income as the rest of the country combined. The top 20 percent of people have 85 percent of the wealth.
  
• During the recent financial crisis, the top 1% of earners saw their wealth INCREASE while the bottom 90% saw their wealth decrease.

So which of their points do you disagree with?

All smoke and mirrors combined with fiction.
About 25 or so years ago, the American people fed up with board room employees being paid large salaries. They were viewed as having no stake in the companies they helped run.
So to combat this, companies started paying their top level management in stock options.
During the period of the mid 80's through the mid 2000's, company stock values rose dramatically. This was indicated by the Dow Jones average increasing at a 12% annual rate. Buy and hold for smart stock holders was the rule of the day. Those board members compensation packages became very valuable. So now we have people bitching and moaning about pay for top brass. Thing is most people have no idea how much risk these people are taking. If the value of the company stock tumbles, guess what? The board is on the hook. Often, board members get the boot.
How much they are paid has no bearing on anyone else.
How much do you think you are personally affected by the pay rate that a total stranger gets?
You people spend all of your time wringing your hands about who earns what. That's just stupid.
If people would spend their time and energy working to better their situation instead of worrying about things they cannot control, this discussion would be pointless.

 

[Nosmo King]

the left truly believes that conservatives are greedy capitalist that care only for themselves ,and the right truly believes that liberals are anti capitalist ,Godless socialist that are trying to destroy our country !!! the hatred between these two groups is reaching a boiling point !!! is there anyway to avoid a civil war ??

Sure! Realize that you. as a Conservative, have been duped by corporations and the wealthy to do their bidding and you have learned that their philosophy of demonizing the American worker and the measures taken to keep him safe at work and in his environment are basically evil.

Once you learn some valuable lessons, namely cutting taxes for the rich while raising them for the middle class will diminish disposable income for those who need it just to get by, will ruin the American standard of living.

And that's what a flat tax will do.

No, what a flat tax will do is that everyone will pay (let's keep it simple here) 10%.

10% of 50k is 5k in taxes.
10% of 5 mil is 50k in taxes.

So the rich actually DO pay more and everyone pays their fair share. When will you realize that penalizing sucess just makes the sucessful stop trying?

No, a flat tax in whatever percentage, is a way to remove those dollars from the middle class who, as we should all know by now, produce jobs by creating DEMAND for products.

No rich person will open a factory or shop because she got a tax cut from 36% to 15%. She will open that factory if there are enough paying customers wanting what she makes.

 

[yidnar]

Sure! Realize that you. as a Conservative, have been duped by corporations and the wealthy to do their bidding and you have learned that their philosophy of demonizing the American worker and the measures taken to keep him safe at work and in his environment are basically evil.

Once you learn some valuable lessons, namely cutting taxes for the rich while raising them for the middle class will diminish disposable income for those who need it just to get by, will ruin the American standard of living.

And that's what a flat tax will do.

I work hard and when things get tough I WORK HARDER !!why should people like you be allowed to dictate my success ??

Congratulations on "earning" more than $250,000 each and every year! Those of us making less than $50,000 could us a break now.

I don't make 250'000 a yr !!but I have enough business sense to realize that taking peoples money does not improve economic growth !!

 

[yidnar]

judging from over 90 posts so far their is no common ground ...the the right believes smaller government and private ownership is the answer !!! while left truly believes big government [totalitarian] is the answer !!!

 

[Nosmo King]

I work hard and when things get tough I WORK HARDER !!why should people like you be allowed to dictate my success ??

Congratulations on "earning" more than $250,000 each and every year! Those of us making less than $50,000 could us a break now.

I don't make 250'000 a yr !!but I have enough business sense to realize that taking peoples money does not improve economic growth !!

Then you would agree that a "flat tax" measure would remove much needed money from the hands of the vast majority of American wage earners. It also represents a substantial tax savings for the wealthiest few who already control more capital than the majority.

As long as the majority does not have the money to spend, there can be no real consumer demand. And consumer demand means more jobs. It also means faster, and more sustainable economic growth. Trickle down is useful only if you want to consolidate wealth among the very few. And the very few cannot create consumer demand because they are so few in number. The very few with capital aren't going to open a shop of factory unless there is demand for their product.

Simple, common sense economics. Something not heard through right wing punditry. Because those pundits are selling the message the wealthy want sold. Give us more and forget about you.

 

[Defiant1]

Congratulations on "earning" more than $250,000 each and every year! Those of us making less than $50,000 could us a break now.

A break from what? You are already being subsidized for just about everything in your life except breathing.

Do you think you pay a "fair share"? I calculate a fair share of federal spending to be approx. $8,300 per each man, woman, and child.

So, take that $8,300 out of the pockets of consumers and watch the economy blossom!

DEMAND!


Demand drives the economy. Demand creates jobs. Coddling the rich ONLY makes the rich richer! Trickle down DOES NOT WORK!

Where do you think it's coming from now, genius?

And since you are not paying $8,300 for you and the rest of your family if you have one, who do you think is subsidizing you?

 

[yidnar]

Congratulations on "earning" more than $250,000 each and every year! Those of us making less than $50,000 could us a break now.

I don't make 250'000 a yr !!but I have enough business sense to realize that taking peoples money does not improve economic growth !!

Then you would agree that a "flat tax" measure would remove much needed money from the hands of the vast majority of American wage earners. It also represents a substantial tax savings for the wealthiest few who already control more capital than the majority.

As long as the majority does not have the money to spend, there can be no real consumer demand. And consumer demand means more jobs. It also means faster, and more sustainable economic growth. Trickle down is useful only if you want to consolidate wealth among the very few. And the very few cannot create consumer demand because they are so few in number. The very few with capital aren't going to open a shop of factory unless there is demand for their product.

Simple, common sense economics. Something not heard through right wing punditry. Because those pundits are selling the message the wealthy want sold. Give us more and forget about you.

I have always agreed with a flat tax revenue system !!

 

[WatertheTree]

The People marching on Wall street with their Insane demands, you know the ones who Obama said he understands? Can't under stand a Peaceful movement, With Reasonable Demands, but he Gets a Mob of Idiots begging for Hand outs just fine. They are Anti Capitalist.

what "insane demands" did they have as a group?

right... there were none...

thought so.

You don't think a $20/hour wage while unemployed to be paid by the taxpayers is insane? That explains about you a lot.. and one of the big azzed funders of these insame demand is the Lawyers Guild.. why is that?

Willow can you tell me where this is coming from?

 

[Dot Com]

Waht happened to all of your 'red badges of courage' yiddie?

 

[yidnar]

Waht happened to all of your 'red badges of courage' yiddie?

times are changing libb !!! times are changing !!!

 

[FactFinder]

America is reaching a boiling point no longer a melting pot

Reaching? It is way past reaching. If I was a speculator/banker on Wall Street I would be watching my sorry back.

 

[yidnar]

America is reaching a boiling point no longer a melting pot

Reaching? It is way past reaching. If I was a speculator/banker on Wall Street I would be watching my sorry back.

so should the communist !!