Amend Florida's 'stand your ground' law, says lawyer for Markeis McGlockton's family

[MacTheKnife]

Told ya....they are willing to perpetrate an injustice to advance a political goal and stir the race hate..

This is just about race to you? Nothing to do with an abuse of the stand your ground laws?

So if I'm walking down the street and some guy grabs my ass or breasts I can justifiably shoot to kill him because I was in fear that a sexual assault was imminent?

Is grabbing your ass and breasts assault?

Told ya....they are willing to perpetrate an injustice to advance a political goal and stir the race hate..

This is just about race to you? Nothing to do with an abuse of the stand your ground laws?

So if I'm walking down the street and some guy grabs my ass or breasts I can justifiably shoot to kill him because I was in fear that a sexual assault was imminent?

Is grabbing your ass and breasts assault?

In most jurisdictions it would be considered sexual battery.

The definition of "assault" can, and does, vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

If they hit you, that's battery.

Assault requires only a "threatening movement" - actual contact is not required in some jurisdictions.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Letting the shooter off the hook without even a full investigation or possible charges of manslaughter being brought, is what challenges our laws that are used inappropriately to justify such a thing.

Is this little parking lot stalker worth it in the end ??

Wrong.

No one is being ‘let off the hook’ – whatever that’s supposed to mean.

It would have been inappropriate to charge the shooter, doing so would be contrary to the laws of the state of Florida.

 

[rightwinger]

Again, The dead pusher was measuring up a massive kick to down fat mans head. hitching up pants, leering down, advancing. The Gun came out just before. Pusher then began to drift, they (she was out of car heading for back) had planned to hit him front and back. Prove me wrong.

Easy. Watch the video.

Your imagination is running away with you.

You didn't see what the man on the ground saw..... sorry, sitting in your home is not the same as getting violently attacked and facing a much larger attacker.... You saw a video 50 feet from the attack from a rear angle, that is not the same thing.

Saw a man draw a gun on an unarmed man who backed away

 

[rightwinger]

Again, The dead pusher was measuring up a massive kick to down fat mans head. hitching up pants, leering down, advancing. The Gun came out just before. Pusher then began to drift, they (she was out of car heading for back) had planned to hit him front an back. Prove me wrong.

Fire when he begins to approach you....not while he is backing away

Nonsensical comment. The white guy did not even see the black guy coming. The white guy was explaining to the black lady why they should not park in the handicap space when the next thing he knew he was blindsided and down on the ground. Whereupon he looked up saw the black guy standing over him and then drew his pistol and shot. which is covered by the law of self defense.

Most likely he did not see the backward step of the black guy.

The black guy made several mistakes...first of all comitting assault. Secondly when he saw the pistol come out he should have put his hands up or took off running...if he had time to do either...things happend very quickly. He was probably just as supprised to see the pistol as the white guy was to get knocked to the ground.

The black guy waited till he got shot then he took off running, collapsed and died.

Only the video and available testimony does not support your description

He was not quietly explaining the technicalities of parking in a handicapped space. He was screaming at the woman

The black guy shoved him to the ground and stood there.....he did not continue the assault

When the man on the ground drew his gun, he had the advantage in the confrontation. It was the man standing whose life was being threatened

 

[MacTheKnife]

If this is the same parking lot shooting incident I'd call it a clean shoot.

The shooter confronted someone for illegally parking.

He was assaulted.

He defended himself from further aggression.

Would I have confronted a man for parking in a HC spot w/o a tag?

**** no. You won't even see me confront or interfere in a serious crime unless I know that failing to act will result in serious injury or death to someone I know to be an innocent victim. Otherwise my role as a citizen is to observe and report the incident to authorities. The liability involved is far too great of a risk to be a "hero".

It is the responsibility of every citizen to keep their hands to themselves. If you don't want to get shot, do not push, slap, shove or even "get in the face of" another citizen who is merely irritating you.



.

Blacks don't understand that.

When confronted they immediately start raving and resort to violence.

See we don't have a right to confront them when they are breaking the law.

They don't even think law enforcement should confront them.

Sadly true....and we see it demonstrated time and again. Made possible by the liberal elements whose agenda is to promote black victimhood and white racism.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Saw a man draw a gun on an unarmed man who backed away

Saw a man lining up to finish the attack. As did law enforcement investigators.

He was shot square in the chest, not in the back running away.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

There are 17 million people carrying guns in this country....Stand Your Ground is a tiny number of shootings each year... you don't know what you are talking about..

As actual research shows, those people who carry guns are more law abiding than the average citizen and more law abiding than even sworn police officers.

Anti gunners hate guns and this is a fake issue to allow them to go after gun owners.

I apparently know more about this than you do. Your first mistake was lumping me in with the anti-gunners. Your second was attempting to portray all concealed carry holders as law abiding and honorable which we know they aren't all. George Zimmerman is a perfect case in point. Then there is judge Beth Bloom and this idiotic ruling:where a theft victim ran down the thief and stabbed him to death. Judge Bloom cited the state's Stand Your Ground statute and ruled the killing was "self-defense"

Garcia, 25, saw Pedro Roteta, 26, trying to steal the radio from his truck, which was parked outside Garcia's Miami apartment. Garcia grabbed a large knife, ran downstairs and chased Roteta for at least a block. The incident was caught on tape and showed that Garcia stabbed Roteta to death.​

'Stand Your Ground': Miami Judge Decides Fatal Stabbing Was Self-Defense

 

[MacTheKnife]

Again, The dead pusher was measuring up a massive kick to down fat mans head. hitching up pants, leering down, advancing. The Gun came out just before. Pusher then began to drift, they (she was out of car heading for back) had planned to hit him front an back. Prove me wrong.

When you have been shoved down violently it is a reasonable anticipation that more violence will come and that you are at a disadvantage. Again, the white guy was running his mouth at the time he was physically assaulted!

OK? I think? I would never approach any parked car in a parking rage incident. Especially with kids in the car. But this idiot did and decided to argue.

What would happen to the fat man busybody w/o a Gun? Kicked? Ran over? Head smashed to pavement? All of above? Gun saved his fat butt.

Right! White guy should not have been running his mouth but the physical assault on his person was a crime! Right?

The White guy had a legal right to explain to the black lady they were in violation of the law. What on earth makes you think you are not allowed to talk to people? Get real dude!

 

[MacTheKnife]

Crump was never the sharpest knife in the drawer. I have no idea how he passed the bar.

Under what circumstances an aggressor can claim self defense is first year criminal law stuff.

Stand your ground means might makes right

Once a fight starts, you can use your gun to resolve it

No troll, it means you don't have to run when a criminal attacks you. That is all it means.

And what if you are the one who initiated the confrontation?

You can start a fight, then pull your gun and fire, claiming you feared for your life and stood your ground

If the white man had an obligation to end this peacefully then sodid the black man. When someone is merely running his mouth you have choices! Shoving him violently is not an acceptable choice is it?

The white man was under no such obligation by law or otherwise. The black man made a stupid decision to assault the white guy and paid the price. End of story.

 

[miketx]

Crump was never the sharpest knife in the drawer. I have no idea how he passed the bar.

Under what circumstances an aggressor can claim self defense is first year criminal law stuff.

Stand your ground means might makes right

Once a fight starts, you can use your gun to resolve it

No troll, it means you don't have to run when a criminal attacks you. That is all it means.

And what if you are the one who initiated the confrontation?

You can start a fight, then pull your gun and fire, claiming you feared for your life and stood your ground

If the white man had an obligation to end this peacefully then sodid the black man. When someone is merely running his mouth you have choices! Shoving him violently is not an acceptable choice is it?

The white man was under no such obligation by law or otherwise. The black man made a stupid decision to assault the white guy and paid the price. End of story.

One can see why we have so much crime. Liberals do not want to punish criminals.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If this is the same parking lot shooting incident I'd call it a clean shoot.

The shooter confronted someone for illegally parking.

He was assaulted.

He defended himself from further aggression.

Would I have confronted a man for parking in a HC spot w/o a tag?

**** no. You won't even see me confront or interfere in a serious crime unless I know that failing to act will result in serious injury or death to someone I know to be an innocent victim. Otherwise my role as a citizen is to observe and report the incident to authorities. The liability involved is far too great of a risk to be a "hero".

It is the responsibility of every citizen to keep their hands to themselves. If you don't want to get shot, do not push, slap, shove or even "get in the face of" another citizen who is merely irritating you.



.

Blacks don't understand that.

When confronted they immediately start raving and resort to violence.

See we don't have a right to confront them when they are breaking the law.

They don't even think law enforcement should confront them.

Sadly true....and we see it demonstrated time and again. Made possible by the liberal elements whose agenda is to promote black victimhood and white racism.

The only thing sad is the racism you and your fellow rightwing miscreants propagate.

White racism is real, your posts are proof of that – no one is ‘promoting’ anything, there is no ‘agenda’; there is only the racism common to far too many on the right.

 

[MacTheKnife]

There are 17 million people carrying guns in this country....Stand Your Ground is a tiny number of shootings each year... you don't know what you are talking about..

As actual research shows, those people who carry guns are more law abiding than the average citizen and more law abiding than even sworn police officers.

Anti gunners hate guns and this is a fake issue to allow them to go after gun owners.

I apparently know more about this than you do. Your first mistake was lumping me in with the anti-gunners. Your second was attempting to portray all concealed carry holders as law abiding and honorable which we know they aren't all. George Zimmerman is a perfect case in point. Then there is judge Beth Bloom and this idiotic ruling:where a theft victim ran down the thief and stabbed him to death. Judge Bloom cited the state's Stand Your Ground statute and ruled the killing was "self-defense"

Garcia, 25, saw Pedro Roteta, 26, trying to steal the radio from his truck, which was parked outside Garcia's Miami apartment. Garcia grabbed a large knife, ran downstairs and chased Roteta for at least a block. The incident was caught on tape and showed that Garcia stabbed Roteta to death.​

'Stand Your Ground': Miami Judge Decides Fatal Stabbing Was Self-Defense

Dispite whatever knowledge you may think you have you are either attempting to deceive or you do not kinow what you are talking about. George Zimmerman has never been convicted of any crime. He was involved in the community...helped black kids and volunteered to protect his community. Before the incident he supported Obama and was a democrat. I do not know all the details regarding the Judge
Bloom case....but when someone decides to steal something they should be aware the outcome may not be something they want.

Anyhow, it is a poor case you cite to explain the stand your ground law. Lastly--statistics prove that most gun owners are law abiding and honorable members of society.

Most gun owners abide law

You are letting your bias show.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Told ya....they are willing to perpetrate an injustice to advance a political goal and stir the race hate..

This is just about race to you? Nothing to do with an abuse of the stand your ground laws?

So if I'm walking down the street and some guy grabs my ass or breasts I can justifiably shoot to kill him because I was in fear that a sexual assault was imminent?

That would be the injustice perped eh...read much

 

[MacTheKnife]

If this is the same parking lot shooting incident I'd call it a clean shoot.

The shooter confronted someone for illegally parking.

He was assaulted.

He defended himself from further aggression.

Would I have confronted a man for parking in a HC spot w/o a tag?

**** no. You won't even see me confront or interfere in a serious crime unless I know that failing to act will result in serious injury or death to someone I know to be an innocent victim. Otherwise my role as a citizen is to observe and report the incident to authorities. The liability involved is far too great of a risk to be a "hero".

It is the responsibility of every citizen to keep their hands to themselves. If you don't want to get shot, do not push, slap, shove or even "get in the face of" another citizen who is merely irritating you.



.

Blacks don't understand that.

When confronted they immediately start raving and resort to violence.

See we don't have a right to confront them when they are breaking the law.

They don't even think law enforcement should confront them.

Sadly true....and we see it demonstrated time and again. Made possible by the liberal elements whose agenda is to promote black victimhood and white racism.

The only thing sad is the racism you and your fellow rightwing miscreants propagate.

White racism is real, your posts are proof of that – no one is ‘promoting’ anything, there is no ‘agenda’; there is only the racism common to far too many on the right.

Nonsense ....your comments are highly prejudicial. It is shown by statistics that blacks though a minority in this nation kill more white folks than whites kill black. Blacks are fortunate that most whites do not know that. But they are waking up.

'The statistics show that the 500 killings of white people attributed to blacks last year were the most since black perpetrators were determined to be responsible for the homicides of 504 white people nationwide in 2008. Last year's total was up 12 percent from the 446 recorded in 2014 and 22 percent from the 409 seen in 2013, a year that saw the lowest total this century and one that capped seven years of general declines in black-on-white homicides. Prior to that, 2006 saw the most black-on-white killings since 2001, with 573.

The 229 black lives taken by white killers last year, however, marked an even larger leap from 2014, jumping more than 22 percent from the 187 black victims killed by whites that year, which was the second-lowest total since 2001. The tally was last exceeded in 2008, when 230 blacks were slain by whites. The highest total in the last 15 years came in 2007, when 245 black people were killed by whites.'

https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

If that happened would you feel like a forcible felony or great bodily harm was imminent ?

It would depend on the totality of all of the factors, but I can just about guarantee you that no one would feel that I had the right to shoot a "man" for the "simple" offense of touching me without my consent - the law says this is simple assault/battery meaning it doesn't rise to the level of the forcible felony required to use lethal force.

While the guy in this case, Michael Drejka, got knocked on his ass for accosting a woman but an unsettling amount of people thinks that justifies him killing the guy who knocked him down. Unless I'm reading the statute incorrectly Drejka's situation also was a simple battery.

 

[yiostheoy]

Lawyer Benjamin Crump said Thursday that "it's still ludicrous" that a person can be an aggressor in a confrontation and then claim self-defense.

by Erik Ortiz / Jul.26.2018 / 4:48 PM ET / Updated Jul.26.2018 / 5:57 PM ET

McGlockton attorney speaks out against 'stand your ground'
Jul.26.201802:28

A prominent civil rights attorney on Thursday demanded Florida lawmakers amend the state's "stand your ground" law to prevent the person shown to be the aggressor in a confrontation from claiming immunity.

Lawyer Benjamin Crump joined the family of Markeis McGlockton, the 28-year-old father of three fatally shot by another man in a Clearwater parking lot, and argued there is enough evidence for state prosecutors to bring charges against the shooter.

"It's still ludicrous how you can claim you have fear for your life, yet you approach and start the confrontation with the individuals," Crump said at a news conference outside the Pinellas County Justice Center.

He also called for state legislators to take up stricter gun responsibility laws. Florida has some of the most lax gun laws in the nation, according to the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, a California-based organization started by former congresswoman Gabby Giffords.
​

The problem is not with the stand your ground law, it's the fact that in order for it to work properly they're relying on what is essentially an "honor" system that is being abused by individuals who have failured to complay with the requirements for the lethal use of force they've employed.

Too many of the individuals involved in committing these offenses initated the confrontation I'm sure bolden by the fact that they were carrying. Additionally, several bad rulings set precedence that from all appearances is next to impossible to undo.

As I've indicataed before, they teach you what to do and say in the training classes required for obtaining a concealed carry permit (state "I was in fear for my life") but they also teach you under what set of circumstances you can legally draw your weapon without it being considered brandishing and what level of threat allows you to respond with deadly force. And picking a fight just so that you can pull your weapon and shoot someone is not a valid legal basis but more importantly, that's not self-defense. In many cases It's the cowardly act of any individual who is unable to distinguish between an actual threat and an injury to their ego.

These laws are different in every state.

They are worst in California and New York.

They are best in Arizona and Texas.

Florida is fairly gun friendly though not as much as Arizona and Texas.

In my state, if anyone is in your house and you did not specifically invite them in, then you can shoot and kill them, no further questions asked.

On the street however, there is the "in fear of life" criterion.

Although you are allowed to shoot anyone that is pointing a gun or knife at anyone else including you. So it also in this case depends on the weapon.

Other than the above, there are 3 criteria --

- does the perp have the opportunity to harm you or someone?

- does he/she have the means?

- has he/she manifest the intent?

 

[Andylusion]

If that happened would you feel like a forcible felony or great bodily harm was imminent ?

It would depend on the totality of all of the factors, but I can just about guarantee you that no one would feel that I had the right to shoot a "man" for the "simple" offense of touching me without my consent - the law says this is simple assault/battery meaning it doesn't rise to the level of the forcible felony required to use lethal force.

While the guy in this case, Michael Drejka, got knocked on his ass for accosting a woman but an unsettling amount of people thinks that justifies him killing the guy who knocked him down. Unless I'm reading the statute incorrectly Drejka's situation also was a simple battery.

I don't know how this should go either way.... but I can see their point. What are we? Dogs? You come up and knock me on my butt, that doesn't sit well with me. The moment I throw a punch, yeah knock me down.

How about you don't start physical violence, and then you won't get shot?

That said, yeah, I don't see a reason for him to shoot.

But this is why you stop being a jerk to begin with. Yelling at someone isn't grounds for knocking them down.

Better yet... how about you follow the law, and don't park in handicapped spots, when you are not handicapped. Why is it so many people think they are above the rules?

 

[rightwinger]

Saw a man draw a gun on an unarmed man who backed away

Saw a man lining up to finish the attack. As did law enforcement investigators.

He was shot square in the chest, not in the back running away.

The attack was finished when the gun was drawn
The black man was backing away

 

[MacTheKnife]

Saw a man draw a gun on an unarmed man who backed away

Saw a man lining up to finish the attack. As did law enforcement investigators.

He was shot square in the chest, not in the back running away.

The attack was finished when the gun was drawn
The black man was backing away

That is just your opinion. Know one knows nor will now ever know what the black aggressor would do next. He very well may --due to his proven violent nature(arrested before for assault) have been thinking about kicking the white dude in the head while he had him down on the ground. No one knows. The white guy said he was in fear of his life and with good reason. Thus he was not charged, and will not be charged as his actions were all lawful.

Meanwhile, the funeral for the black aggressor is being planned. Most should have learned from the trayvonista affair...apparantly many did not.

If the white guy had not defended his life with deadly force....his family could have been the ones preparing for a funeral.

Too bad your guy is dead. I doubt many care. Violent thugs disappearing from the face of this earth is applauded by all law abiding folks.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Saw a man draw a gun on an unarmed man who backed away

Saw a man lining up to finish the attack. As did law enforcement investigators.

He was shot square in the chest, not in the back running away.

The attack was finished when the gun was drawn
The black man was backing away

Not according to investigators....fleeing means back turned. Its why there was no arrest or charges.