Am I losing my faith or just becoming more realistic?

[Care4all]

I'm glad I saw this thread before I started another- it lends credence to this whole "faith" thing.

Read the Book of JOB(e) in the Bible, it teaches that there is more going on than you think...

Yes? Knowledge isn't biased in its origin.

Use the NIV Student Bible, it gives a summary and overview of the Book.

No. The bible, thus the summary, is man's words translated over a couple thousand years from different languages and just using 'our' different interpretations in today's climate proves people interpret as they see fit to shape their agenda- to be God's words when that is rubbish at it's core. It's what 'man' says is God's word.

for Blackrook reading the Book of Job, is what the doctor ordered, to help heal him.

It would mean nothing to you, which is okay.... to each his or her own. You trying to convince a believer in God that there is no God, is a fruitless task.... it would be like me, trying to convince you, there is one!

 

[james bond]

still you provide NO proof of god = no god
hahahhahahahaha

I just did, but if you want proof from Jesus, then you'll have to wait. It will be like being pushed off a cliff.

that's some damn good proof!!! hahahahhahahahahahha

I wouldn't want to be pushed off a cliff to be convinced of something .

 

[Care4all]

A joke is in order

A flood covered the street and a man was sitting on a roof. The water was up to his knees. He prayed to GOD to save him. Minutes later, a boat with two people came by. They said to hop in but he said GOD would save him. The water was up to his waist. A boat came with one person in it. He said there was room, but the man said that GOD would save him. The Water was up to his neck. Then a boat came with no people and he thought that GOD would save him. He died an hour later and went up to HEAVEN. He asked GOD, '' Why didn`t you save me?'' And GOD answered, '' What are you talking about? I sent you three boats!''

source: God Help Me Joke - Religious Jokes

 

[Gdjjr]

for Blackrook reading the Book of Job, is what the doctor ordered, to help heal him.

You're a Dr?

 

[JustAnotherNut]

Just because our prayers aren't answered in the manner we wish them to be, doesn't mean God doesn't care. Either we are praying wrong (for our own benefit/not in His will) or it's not the right time(more to the situation than what we see or understand). .
If you only pray to God expecting immediate positive results, like going to an ATM for cash.....then you'll be sorely disappointed. Are your prayers 'God give me this?" or are they 'I will still love, obey, follow You whether I get it or not'?

Yes we can pray for good things to happen. Sometimes those prayers are answered and sometimes not, but is there any measure of doubt in your prayer? Are you harboring negative thoughts or feelings in your heart while praying? Get your heart right before coming to God.

God never promised an easy life. Hurt and disappointments happen. Sometimes our faith is tested to the breaking point and/or we get discouraged because we don't see results. We are told to pray and keep our faith......not just when things go our way, but even when they don't. And maybe especially when they don't. I think it's said that the prayers of a successful man/person is not because they pray when things go their way......but the prayers of a humble heart with thanksgiving in times of trouble.


At some point in every believers life, we are faced with doubt of our faith, His existence, our worthiness, etc. We all become the 'prodigal son', that runs off to live our own way, only some of us realize our way isn't the best way, and we want to come 'home'. God is the father than runs out to meet us with open arms and celebration for our return.




Personal story??? I was late for an appointment even though I had given myself plenty of time to prepare. Anything and everything that could go wrong did to keep me from getting out the door. As I sped along trying to make up lost time, I'd get stuck behind some slow poke that couldn't make up their mind where they were going or which turn to take and Im about ready to yank them out of their car and punch them in the face. I hit every red light that took twice as long as it normally would and I'm shaking my fist at everything. My stress level & blood pressure was thru the roof. As I'm about 3 blocks from my destination I see lights & sirens.....cops, ambulances, etc Traffic is being diverted around the scene and I catch a glimpse of a car similar to mine pinned under an 18wheeler. IF anyone survived that crash, their life was changed forever. I instantly came to the realization, that if I had been 'on time', that would have been me......and my heart went out to them and their family and the truck driver as well.

Point here is this...…...when things don't go our way, there is probably a good reason for it.

 

[bodecea]

One of my main problems with God is that he did not answer my prayers and many things have gone wrong for me.

Seeking answers, I read a book called "Where the hell is God?" written by a Jesuit priest.

He explained that he and his family had a faith crisis when his sister had an auto accident and became quadriplegic.

His answer to the question "Where the hell is God?" is that God, in his view, doesn't CAUSE these bad things to happen, so there appears to be no point in praying to God to fix the bad things that happen.

His example is the long drought in Australia, which people have been praying to end, but the drought just goes on and on.

I guess the problem with this priest's resolution is that it has weakened my faith to believe that God isn't the CAUSE of bad things that happen, because if he ISN'T, then there is something more powerful than God in the universe, another God, or an impersonal force that controls random chance.

And now I find myself thinking: What's the point of a God who is a passive bystander to the events in the universe? Why pray to him for anything?

Christ teaches we SHOULD PRAY and if we knock on the door, the door will open to us.

So really, this Jesuit priest is saying something that is inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.

But my experience with prayer is that some of my prayers have NOT been answered, and I've been praying for many years.

Atheists, please keep your stupid comments out of this thread, I'm seeking answers from fellow believers.

Honestly....your faith is between you and your vision of a god.....you don't need to be parading it around for the rest of us like you are some popular soap opera drama.

 

[JustAnotherNut]

One of my main problems with God is that he did not answer my prayers and many things have gone wrong for me.

Seeking answers, I read a book called "Where the hell is God?" written by a Jesuit priest.

He explained that he and his family had a faith crisis when his sister had an auto accident and became quadriplegic.

His answer to the question "Where the hell is God?" is that God, in his view, doesn't CAUSE these bad things to happen, so there appears to be no point in praying to God to fix the bad things that happen.

His example is the long drought in Australia, which people have been praying to end, but the drought just goes on and on.

I guess the problem with this priest's resolution is that it has weakened my faith to believe that God isn't the CAUSE of bad things that happen, because if he ISN'T, then there is something more powerful than God in the universe, another God, or an impersonal force that controls random chance.

And now I find myself thinking: What's the point of a God who is a passive bystander to the events in the universe? Why pray to him for anything?

Christ teaches we SHOULD PRAY and if we knock on the door, the door will open to us.

So really, this Jesuit priest is saying something that is inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.

But my experience with prayer is that some of my prayers have NOT been answered, and I've been praying for many years.

Atheists, please keep your stupid comments out of this thread, I'm seeking answers from fellow believers.

Honestly....your faith is between you and your vision of a god.....you don't need to be parading it around for the rest of us like you are some popular soap opera drama.

'Do not rely on your own understanding, but seek the counsel of others'

 

[Gdjjr]

'Do not rely on your own understanding, but seek the counsel of others'

One has to understand the counsel given- that comes down to the Individual, not the counselor or his bias, which is what seeking counsel often generates.

 

[JoeB131]

According to the Jesuit author of the book, bad things that happen to us are not a test. Bad things happen, and there is no reason for them.

I read another book about the volcanic explosion that destroyed Pompei. The author makes the point that the people of Pompei did not die because they deserved it, or failed to make some sacrifice to the gods, they died because volcanos explode and what we do in this life has no effect on that.

That brings up back to Epicurus

If bad stuff happens and God doesn't prevent them from happening, then why worship God at all?

If a tornado misses the Brothel and hits the Church, then what are we to think of the supposed "Morality" of the Church?

 

[SmokeALib]

One of my main problems with God is that he did not answer my prayers and many things have gone wrong for me.

Seeking answers, I read a book called "Where the hell is God?" written by a Jesuit priest.

He explained that he and his family had a faith crisis when his sister had an auto accident and became quadriplegic.

His answer to the question "Where the hell is God?" is that God, in his view, doesn't CAUSE these bad things to happen, so there appears to be no point in praying to God to fix the bad things that happen.

His example is the long drought in Australia, which people have been praying to end, but the drought just goes on and on.

I guess the problem with this priest's resolution is that it has weakened my faith to believe that God isn't the CAUSE of bad things that happen, because if he ISN'T, then there is something more powerful than God in the universe, another God, or an impersonal force that controls random chance.

And now I find myself thinking: What's the point of a God who is a passive bystander to the events in the universe? Why pray to him for anything?

Christ teaches we SHOULD PRAY and if we knock on the door, the door will open to us.

So really, this Jesuit priest is saying something that is inconsistent with the teachings of Christ.

But my experience with prayer is that some of my prayers have NOT been answered, and I've been praying for many years.

Atheists, please keep your stupid comments out of this thread, I'm seeking answers from fellow believers.

Honestly....your faith is between you and your vision of a god.....you don't need to be parading it around for the rest of us like you are some popular soap opera drama.

No different than you parading around your marxist-infected utopian fantasies. Go take a hike.

 

[depotoo]

Atheists, please keep your stupid comments out of this thread, I'm seeking answers from fellow believers.

there is no god--plain and simple ..religion is made up by man = fake/etc

How do you think the ancient kings of Israel figured out what was valid? They did their due diligence. The believers know how, but you don't. All you got is post #24 forevaaaaaa-aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

Like being pushed off a cliff.

still you provide NO proof of god = no god
hahahhahahahaha[/QUOTE]
Ye of little faith

 

[Blackrook]

I always viewed Christ hanging between the two thieves to be the best representation of all human suffering. Here we have three men who are going to die, nothing can change that as all 3 are suffering unimaginable pain. The thief on the left says, "If you be the Son of God, get us down and save us!" as he begins to curse at him. The other asks Jesus to remember him when he enters paradise as Jesus grants his request.

Those are your choices.

Thank you for that.

 

[Meriweather]

That brings up back to Epicurus

Perhaps Epicurus wasn't asking the better questions?

Are we willing to prevent evil but not able? (Then we are not omnipotent) Are we able, but not willing? (Then we are malevolent) Are we both able and willing? (Then whence comes evil) Are we neither able nor willing? (Then why call us human?)

Earth is our training ground. From what we are told, a heavenly eternity (God's domain) is without evil, and therefore God is all that we are not--at least not yet. But we are learning, are we not? On our own earthly domain?

 

[Votto]

I always viewed Christ hanging between the two thieves to be the best representation of all human suffering. Here we have three men who are going to die, nothing can change that as all 3 are suffering unimaginable pain. The thief on the left says, "If you be the Son of God, get us down and save us!" as he begins to curse at him. The other asks Jesus to remember him when he enters paradise as Jesus grants his request.

Those are your choices.

Thank you for that.

I got another.

Mark 4:35 That day when evening came, he said to his disciples, “Let us go over to the other side.” 36Leaving the crowd behind, they took him along, just as he was, in the boat. There were also other boats with him. 37A furious squall came up, and the waves broke over the boat, so that it was nearly swamped. 38Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, “Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?”
39He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, “Quiet! Be still!” Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.
40He said to his disciples, “Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith?”
41They were terrified and asked each other, “Who is this? Even the wind and the waves obey him!”

For me, our faith journey begins on the boat to get to "the other side". And along the way we have "storms" in which we think we are going to die, or perhaps others have died around us. And where is God in all this? He seems to be "sleeping". Jesus had no fear of the storm, but for their sakes quited the storm, just to send a message. He is greater than any storm.

 

[ChemEngineer]

Blackrook: "Right, but I asked atheists to stay out of this thread. So, you're trespassing (Harmonica)."

Atheists are consistently rude, condescending, and bitter. These are not names I am calling them. They are accurate descriptions I have observed from years of interacting with hundreds of them, from Isaac Asimov to Richard Dawkins to agnostic Carl Sagan and all their followers online.

I citiqued Asimov's ignorant book and sent my letter to his publisher. Ignoring his many mistakes, all Asimov could do was call me "stupid." I sold his postcard on eBay for $75. Sagan ignored his mistakes and asked me to buy his newest book. I never bought any of them. Library. Hello! Sold his letter on eBay for $125. Thanks.

Dawkins was the most hateful, most malicious of all by far. How unintelligent and anti-scientific of each of them, particularly Dawkins.

By the way, Asimov was SO STUPID he never flew by commercial jet, which is 10 to 15 times safer per passenger mile than cars. Asimov's only son was arrested in northern California for having hundreds of child porno images on his computer. This is the legacy of a famous atheist. How proud they must all be.

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[eagle1462010]

 

[Care4all]

Blackrook: "Right, but I asked atheists to stay out of this thread. So, you're trespassing (Harmonica)."

Atheists are consistently rude, condescending, and bitter. These are not names I am calling them. They are accurate descriptions I have observed from years of interacting with hundreds of them, from Isaac Asimov to Richard Dawkins to agnostic Carl Sagan and all their followers online.

I citiqued Asimov's ignorant book and sent my letter to his publisher. Ignoring his many mistakes, all Asimov could do was call me "stupid." I sold his postcard on eBay for $75. Sagan ignored his mistakes and asked me to buy his newest book. I never bought any of them. Library. Hello! Sold his letter on eBay for $125. Thanks.

Dawkins was the most hateful, most malicious of all by far. How unintelligent and anti-scientific of each of them, particularly Dawkins.

By the way, Asimov was SO STUPID he never flew by commercial jet, which is 10 to 15 times safer per passenger mile than cars. Asimov's only son was arrested in northern California for having hundreds of child porno images on his computer. This is the legacy of a famous atheist. How proud they must all be.

Wow, you sure cast a wide net.

I 've known Athiests that just go about their lives, being good honest, loving, and generous people... you'd never know they didn't believe in God, because their walk was with what I was taught was holy, or with the God in good.

Of course in my own mind, I just believed that God was working with them, without them knowing yet, but eventually would, when God's time was right....

And other atheists that are constantly intruding on these type of threads, I view them as screaming out for support... wanting so badly that others could only see like them, that there is no God... to make themselves feel better about their own decision, again...that there is no God.... And when others that believe in God, dismiss their atheism, they come back and try again on the next thread on it....

That's God working on them, through us....giving us a chance to spread God's love, to the point of ad nauseam and a bopping them upside of the head, to wake 'em up after their 77th time of intruding on these threads....

Your disdain in your post is the opposite of our command, to bring people to Christ or God, not disparage and condemn a whole broad group.... imho.

 

[ChemEngineer]

Wow, you sure cast a wide net.

How wide a net has Richard Dawkins cast, publishing The God Delusion, a vile, hateful attack on all people of faith, which sold millions of copies?
How wide was that net?

I 've known Athiests (sic) that just go about their lives, being good honest, loving, and generous people... you'd never know they didn't believe in God, because their walk was with what I was taught was holy, or with the God in good.

Good for you. Those were not the people I described, were they?
There are hypocrites of faith, aren't there? Jesus selected Judas as His disciple and Judas betrayed him, so what?

Your disdain in your post is the opposite of our command, to bring people to Christ or God, not disparage and condemn a whole broad group.... imho.

Learn what righteous indignation is, as well as expressing the truth.
Jesus overturned the tables of the moneychangers in the temple.
Jesus said "Let him who hath no sword sell his garment and buy one."
Here is your clue: Swords are not used for plowing.

God blinded the homosexuals in Sodom who sought to rape His angels. Was God bringing people to Himself in so doing? Please explain away.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition. Men of faith prayed to defeat Nazis and Japanese, both convinced that they were the superior race. Tell the world of how effective your gentility is in overcoming evil.

 

[JoeB131]

Perhaps Epicurus wasn't asking the better questions?

Are we willing to prevent evil but not able? (Then we are not omnipotent) Are we able, but not willing? (Then we are malevolent) Are we both able and willing? (Then whence comes evil) Are we neither able nor willing? (Then why call us human?)

That's actually retarded. We know humans aren't omnipotent, we are often malevolent, and some of us are downright evil.

Again, the concept of God is a being who is supposed to be omnipotent, benevolent and good. But the way the world works, there's no real evidence. The evil are rewarded and the good are punished.

Earth is our training ground. From what we are told, a heavenly eternity (God's domain) is without evil, and therefore God is all that we are not--at least not yet. But we are learning, are we not? On our own earthly domain?

Actually, that's kind of messed up. So the status of your eternal spirit is dependent on what random, do-da stupid luck you encountered while you were here?

Heck, let's take it a step further. No matter what religion you belong to, the vast majority of humanity disagrees with you. Do Shintos or Hindus deserve to go to hell FOR ALL ETERNITY because they had the bad luck of not being born where the Christian God is in charge? It seems if God is omnipotent, he can't even influence all of ONE PLANET to believe in him.

What if you get to heaven and you find out that the Shinto's were right, and Amaterasu is doing the judging in the afterlife. That would kind of suck for you...