Alternative To The Electoral College

[rightwinger]

Is it? And how would you know that? When I feed my ballot into the tabulating machine used here, I have no way of knowing whether my vote was counted at all, much less whether it was counted in the same way as I cast it. The ONLY one who knows is the person who programmed it. That does not inspire confidence in the electorate.

Hand counting with bipartisan poll watchers is much more difficult to rig if there is any kind of reasonable system to ensure only legal ballots will be cast. And once the poll watchers are given the tally of the hand count, the ballots can then be fed into the machines to be transmitted to a central compilation area. Much more difficult to rig or cheat the system that way.

Do you know it was accurate in a hand count or whether the guy who counted did it accurately?

 

[WorldWatcher]

I was not talking counties. I was talking precincts. The average of 800 voters per precinct is factored from registered voters in all precincts including LA County. Some precincts have two or so thousand people. Some have very few. But the larger precincts can recruit more counters. Most precincts can count the votes in their precinct in a relatively short time. Votes should be counted where they are cast and not transported somewhere else for counting.

We have precincts now with hand marked, machine read ballots that can count ballots very fast, faster than a human. And it currently takes into the dead of night just to get "initial" findings and days for final certifications. And no what you see reported election nights are not "official" final returns. They are initial reports.

To hand count ballots in more populated areas it would take days and the kicker is, the results are less accurate than machine tabulation.

WW

 

[WorldWatcher]

Is it? And how would you know that? When I feed my ballot into the tabulating machine used here, I have no way of knowing whether my vote was counted at all, much less whether it was counted in the same way as I cast it. The ONLY one who knows is the person who programmed it. That does not inspire confidence in the electorate.

Hand counting with bipartisan poll watchers is much more difficult to rig if there is any kind of reasonable system to ensure only legal ballots will be cast. And once the poll watchers are given the tally of the hand count, the ballots can then be fed into the machines to be transmitted to a central compilation area. Much more difficult to rig or cheat the system that way.

Voting is not a new event. We've been doing it for years. If you were to research modern elections where machine tabulation was used then hand recounts were used and the results compared, the machines are more consistent.

And as to: " When I feed my ballot into the tabulating machine used here, I have no way of knowing whether my vote was counted at all, much less whether it was counted in the same way as I cast it. " To be honest if you slipped your ballot into a ballot box you have no way of knowing whether your vote was counted at all, much less whether it was counted in the same way as you cast it.

WW

 

[Foxfyre]

Do you know it was accurate in a hand count or whether the guy who counted did it accurately?

If we have responsible poll watchers watching the count, yes. Much more confidence than a machine that somebody can program any way they want.

 

[Foxfyre]

We have precincts now with hand marked, machine read ballots that can count ballots very fast, faster than a human. And it currently takes into the dead of night just to get "initial" findings and days for final certifications. And no what you see reported election nights are not "official" final returns. They are initial reports.

To hand count ballots in more populated areas it would take days and the kicker is, the results are less accurate than machine tabulation.

WW

We fill out paper ballots here. And then those ballots are fed into a machine that presumably tabulates them. When I feed my ballot into that machine I have no way of knowing if it was counted in the way I filled out the ballot or whether it was counted at all. There is no hand count.

 

[Foxfyre]

Voting is not a new event. We've been doing it for years. If you were to research modern elections where machine tabulation was used then hand recounts were used and the results compared, the machines are more consistent.

And as to: " When I feed my ballot into the tabulating machine used here, I have no way of knowing whether my vote was counted at all, much less whether it was counted in the same way as I cast it. " To be honest if you slipped your ballot into a ballot box you have no way of knowing whether your vote was counted at all, much less whether it was counted in the same way as you cast it.

WW

But if we have responsible voters watching the paper ballot count and receiving a tally before the ballots are fed into a machine, we have far more confidence that there is no cheating than when machines that can be programmed in myriad ways count those ballots.

 

[BackAgain]

The electoral college is the only fair system.

This ^ explains why folks like Leftwhiner want to do away with it.

 

[rightwinger]

If we have responsible poll watchers watching the count, yes. Much more confidence than a machine that somebody can program any way they want.

Machines are calibrated, go through an independent verification and validation and are locked to ensure they haven’t been tampered with.
Machines give repeatable results.
Something hand counts struggle to match

 

[22lcidw]

You see all that RED covering Vacant Land and it excites you.
You know vacant land doesn't vote.

These are the LAMEST most illogical suggestions ever.
I bet you got all excited typing it though.



The Electoral College was brought up by the OP. <<< a right wing Hack.

A nation started on low taxes and Progs survive on high taxes.

 

[Foxfyre]

Machines are calibrated, go through an independent verification and validation and are locked to ensure they haven’t been tampered with.
Machines give repeatable results.
Something hand counts struggle to match

Do you trust Donald Trump's people or extreme MAGAs to choose who will 'independently verify' those machines? To keep them secure? To make sure they aren't tampered with? To be sure the chain of custody is secure?

 

[rightwinger]

When I feed my ballot into that machine I have no way of knowing if it was counted in the way I filled out the ballot or whether it was counted at all.

You have no way of knowing a hand counted ballot will not misreport your vote

 

[rightwinger]

Do you trust Donald Trump's people or extreme MAGAs to choose who will 'independently verify' those machines? To keep them secure? To make sure they aren't tampered with? To be sure the chain of custody is secure?

We have rules and regulations on how voting machines are handled

It was Trump people in Georgia who tried to tamper with voting machines

 

[RetiredGySgt]

We have rules and regulations on how voting machines are handled

It was Trump people in Georgia who tried to tamper with voting machines

Provide a reliable link to back up that claim.

 

[Foxfyre]

You have no way of knowing a hand counted ballot will not misreport your vote

I do if somebody responsible is watching the count and gets a tally of the vote before it is fed into the machines.

 

[Foxfyre]

We have rules and regulations on how voting machines are handled

It was Trump people in Georgia who tried to tamper with voting machines

You didn't answer my question. Do you trust partisan Republican, Patriots, MAGA, Trump supporters to ensure that the machines are honestly programmed, calibrated and verified?

 

[Blaster]

Voter ID should be mandatory in my opinion.

 

[AZrailwhale]

If you want to go to a popular vote, voting should be restricted to people who actually pay direct taxes. In other words, only property owners, employed people or those drawing pensions earned from working. You know, people who actually have skin in the game.

 

[rightwinger]

You didn't answer my question. Do you trust partisan Republican, Patriots, MAGA, Trump supporters to ensure that the machines are honestly programmed, calibrated and verified?

We do not let political parties decide

Certified election officials who follow established guidelines do the selection of voting machines.
Those tabulating machines go through an independent V&V that verify the accuracy and repeatability of results

Manual counters go through no such V&V

 

[rightwinger]

If you want to go to a popular vote, voting should be restricted to people who actually pay direct taxes. In other words, only property owners, employed people or those drawing pensions earned from working. You know, people who actually have skin in the game.

EVERY American has skin in the game

 

[Foxfyre]

We do not let political parties decide

Certified election officials who follow established guidelines do the selection of voting machines.
Those tabulating machines go through an independent V&V that verify the accuracy and repeatability of results

Manual counters go through no such V&V

"Certified election officials" are put into their positions by political parties.
Those holding those positions are pretty much 100% members of a political party.
Who determines how 'independent' the verification, reliability, accuracy is?

Okay you can't do math. But are you really so naive to believe that just because somebody tells you it is honest and reliable, you can depend on that?