Almost half of Americans work in low paid jobs

[Mac-7]

If you can pay you dont go to Parkland

Then why do they have a "pay my bill" link on their website?

They will gladly accept your money if you are able to pay

But if not then hasta la vista

But you just said that people that can pay do not go there.

Would you make up your mind?

Its free

and in this world you get what you pay for

So if you can afford better you wont go there

 

[Mac-7]

Shows how hollow the Trump economy is

Almost half of Americans work in low-wage jobs

America's unemployment rate is at a half-century low, but it also has a job-quality problem that affects nearly half the population, with a study finding 44% of U.S. workers are employed in low-wage jobs that pay median annual wages of $18,000.

Contrary to popular opinion, these workers aren't teenagers or young adults just starting their careers,

Well, we could turn to Communism or strict Socialism, then everybody's poor, except the political inner-circle.
Most jobs fall into the category of "service industry employment." Such jobs as retail sales, custodial work, factory line labor, landscaping, et cetera, fall into this category. Somebody has to fill in those spots and if they were to be paid high wages for their labor, YOU the consumer, would scream that you couldn't afford their services or products, as the companies would have to raise the cost of the products significantly to continue making a profit, after all, that's why people start their own companies, to make profit and provide more for their families.
As for your figure of $18,000 as a mean annual wage. I don't know where you get your figures from, but for Americans, the average annual mean income between the ages of 25-34 is really about $41,000+. Of course, this depends on the area one is from. The Department of Labor statistics also doesn't support your claim of $18,000, unless you are specifying some specific employment.
Migrant pickers make lousy incomes, however, if you had to pay every migrant picker a $15.00 per hour wage for his/her labor, you couldn't afford to eat.

That is a misassumption

Farm labor represents only a tiny portion of the price of food in the grocery store

$8-$15 an hour would add a little but not as much as you think if we limit the same food imports from mexico where they also pay low wages

False. You changed the context in the middle of the debate. The prior poster referred to Migrant pickers, while you referred to "portion of the price of food". There are many foods, like wheat for example, that are not picked by hand by migrants.

Foods which are more automated, like potatoes for example, you as the consumer opening a bag of potato chips, might be the very first human hand to have ever touched that potato. They are pulled from the ground, sorted, shipped, skinned, cut, fried, seasoned, baked, packed and sealed, without a single human hand touching them.

In that specific situation, your claim would be correct, that the value would not directly increase in relation to the wages.

However, there are numerous other things that are picked by hand, in labor intensive farming. Apples, peppers, asparagus, grapes, cherries, and so on. Increasing the labor rates for these things, would easily increase the cost of them by a ton.

Limiting imports of food, is a horrifically bad idea.

Right now the US is a net exporter of food. The amount of food we import, is a tiny fraction of the amount we export. Starting a trade war with food, will hurt the US more than anyone else.

Even had picked food generallydoes not go directly from field to table

There are warehouses, wholesalers and retailers in the food chain, plus, transportation, insurance, and other business expenses

 

[Mac-7]

You are clueless once again, doing nothing but parroting the party talking points.

Don’t Blame China For Taking U.S. Jobs

"The study reports as well that trade accounted for 13% of the lost U.S. factory jobs, but 88% of the jobs were taken by robots and other factors at home."

"Investment in automation and software has doubled the output per U.S. manufacturing worker over the past two decades. Robots are replacing workers, regardless of trade at an accelerating pace."


Why do you think that there was no drop in output while there was a drop in employment?

Employee numbers started dropping in 2000

View attachment 293513

yet there was only a tiny dip in output that recovered with in 2 years.

View attachment 293516

Mac-7.... Gater, is entirely 100% correct on this point.

The vast vast majority of job-loss has came from automation. The only place where jobs in manufacturing has increased, is in China, where the price of labor is so low, that it is actually profit-losing to automate.

In Mexico even, most of the manufacturing plants being built are more automated than those in the US.

Manufacturing is not dying, and manufacturing jobs will never cease to exist..... but they will also never be a major force in the US economy.

Now that isn't to say that foreign companies helped in this process. Most certainly Unions made their respective companies un-competitive on the market, relative to the non-union foreign companies.

Even within our own country, we see the rise of non-union steel companies, overtaking the union ones. Nucor for example is non-union, and slowly edging out US Steel in steel production.

So Unions certainly helped to wipe out jobs, relative to non-union foreign companies, clearly harmed employment.

However, the bottom line is that automation wiped out more jobs, than anything China did.

And even if we blocked all trade with China, it would never bring those jobs back.

If they brought iPhone production to the US, it would be entirely automated. You wouldn't have tons of high paid manufacturing workers, doing it.

We have millions of low education workers who are not suitable for high tech manufacturing

But they still need jobs

And we need to keep more of the $350-500 billion going to china in America

If automation is the future I want it in America rather than in china

I want the robots designed and manufactured here as well as put to work here

Well we do. As stated, manufacturing has not disappeared. In fact, it was a record year 2018, in manufacturing. If we rounded up the entire manufacturing sector of the US into a separate country, it was have a GDP of $1.9 Trillion, or be 8th largest economy in the world.

Nevertheless, the solution to more manufacturing in the US, is more trade, not less trade.

A trade war will not making more products be manufactured in the US, but rather fewer.

General Motors, makes more money outside the US, than inside the US. Apple makes more money outside the US. In fact, even McDonald's makes more money outside the US. Yes I realize McDonald's isn't in manufacturing, but the point is.....

Nearly all international companies make more money outside the US. Nearly all.

The US might be the single largest market, but if you consider outside the US as being a combined market, then the US is not the largest market.

The largest market, is the other 7 Billion + people on the planet.

If you force any company to choose between having a manufacturing plant in the US, that only serves the US market, or a manufacturing plant that is outside the US the serves the 7 Billion+ people in the world market.....

Which would you choose? Well I can tell you where anyone with any intelligence would choose... they would choose to build for the international market.

We need to stop making out like the US is this indispensable market. In the 50s, it most certainly was. 60s and 70s, not quite as much. But now after Capitalism has brought billions of people above poverty around the world, we are simply not the one and only market in the world, that everyone must be a part of.

If you force companies into a "our market or the worlds market", it will soon be the worlds market, and not ours.

General Motors, makes more money outside the US, than inside the US. Apple makes more money outside the US. In fact, even McDonald's makes more money outside the US. Yes I realize McDonald's isn't in manufacturing, but the point is.....

General Motors, makes more money outside the US, than inside the US. Apple makes more money outside the US. In fact, even McDonald's makes more money outside the US. Yes I realize McDonald's isn't in manufacturing, but the point is.....

do GM and other global companies still ant the benefits and protection afforded by the US flag?

i bet they do as they cozy up to our biggest enemy

why should Americans care how much money GM makes in china since it is not benefiting them?

But now after Capitalism has brought billions of people above poverty around the world,

That is not a compelling argument for me

we sacrificed some of our wealth through the Marshall Plan and allowed the euros and japanese to grow at our expense

But the Cold War is over and we cannot lift the whole world out of poverty on the backs of Americans

why should Americans care how much money GM makes in china since it is not benefiting them?

You missed my point. My point isn't that you should, or should not care about profits made outside the US.

Now I could make that case..... I own stock in companies that make more money outside the US. I think all people should own stock in companies, and if they have a 401K or a pension, or a annuity, then all people have a retirement at all, should support companies making money outside the US, because it benefits them.

Plus.... now with lower capital gains taxes, many of those companies, have started bringing those profits back to the US, to invest in the US.
US companies bring home $665 billion in overseas cash last year, falling short of Trump pledge

So earning money outside the US, is directly benefiting the US. By the way, other countries have much lower taxes on profits brought home. We're one of the few stupid countries that doesn't have that as a policy.

However, as I said, that was not my point. My point was.... if you make it through tariff and protectionist policy, a system where companies can either make products for the US, or the entire world.... they are going to make it for the entire world, not the US.

The world will win, and the US will lose. Have trade barriers is going to a create an "The USA or Everyone else" system... and in that system, everyone else wins.

Say I am a large company, and I have $40 Billion dollars to build a manufacturing plant, that will produce a product, and create 500 jobs.

I can either make that manufacturing plant in Mexico, or I can make it in Tennessee. I don't have $80 Billion to build two plants. I can either make it in the US, or I can make it outside the US in Mexico.

One or the other.

Where do I build the plant?

Well if I build it in the US, because of trade barriers, I can only sell to the US market.
If I build it in Mexico, I can sell it world wide, to the 8 Billion people on the planet.

Where do I build the plant? In Mexico of course. I make a ton more money selling to the world market, than I do selling to just the US market.

The US loses.... and the world wins.

So doing this "us or them" trade war game, is going to be a loser for the US. And it always has by the way. Trade barriers, and protectionism have always destroyed the people engaging in it.

Jamaica, East Berlin, Venezuela, Cuba, protectionism has never been a benefit to the countries that engage in it.

Again, as I said before on this forum.... if protectionism, and limiting trade was a net benefit, then why are we putting trade sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine? By the logic of protectionism, we are forcing Russia to be wealthy, by restricting trade on them.

Why would we 'punish' people with restrictions on trade..... and then restrict our own trade to somehow benefit us? These are mutually exclusive ideas. It can't be both.

So that is my real point. It wasn't that you should just "care" for caring sake, how much money companies make outside the US. My point was that if you make it an ultimatum, that companies either deal with the US or the rest of the world, they'll deal with the rest of the world. There is more money to be made in the rest of the world. We'll lose... the world will win.

But the Cold War is over and we cannot lift the whole world out of poverty on the backs of Americans

But we're not lifting the world out of poverty, on our backs. Trade is inherently mutually beneficial. Every company I've worked for, was making tons of sales outside the US. You put in trade barriers, and all those companies would close. All of them would. All of our material was being sourced from around world. Even those material that was sourced locally, was getting supplied around the world.

It was mutually beneficial for us to buy from various providers, and then we were able to make our product. You cut of our suppliers, and the cost of production spikes above the amount our customers are willing to pay..... we're all laid off, and unemployed.

How is this on our backs? If not for trade, we wouldn't have a job.

US companies bring home $665 billion in overseas cash last year, falling short of Trump pledge

That sounds impressive but dont expect that much every year since much of it was a one-time response to the trump tax cuts

If it has not been clear before let me say now that I’m not against international trade

Between non enemies such as the US, europe, japan, south korea, canada and others with comparable economies and costs of doing business trade is a good thing

But with raptor states like china where business exists to serve the political aggression of the dictatorship free trade is an illusion

Many Americans do not see the threat from china and see that country as a harmless panda bear

Which it is not

So I want less one-way trade with china, less wealth transfer, and no technology transfer

 

[mikegriffith1]

Perhaps you didn't catch the news that last month the economy added a whopping 266,000 jobs, and that manufacturing jobs rose by 54,000.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

 

[francoHFW]

If you can pay you dont go to Parkland

If you are an illegal alien about to drop an anchor baby you go to Parkland for free sevice

Yes as long as you have no assets and no address and you can get away with this. If you have an address or assets you're screwed. And you don't get any preventive care. That's why this is so dumb....If you are an illegal alien you can go to any emergency room and get care. Parkland is no different. That is the stupid GOP system. In a blue state they would have Medicaid or insurance. Pass the goddamn 2010 Democratic comprehensive immigration bill with an ID card and get the damn system organized. And no that doesn't mean throwing 12 million hard-working illegals out of the country when your party invited them in. Right now all your party does is distract you with bologna that won't work and is un American

2010 Democratic comprehensive immigration bill with an ID card

Bill #?
Link to the bill?

Google it troll. It started with an ID card, which the GOP has blocked forever because they actually love the cheap easily bullied labor and distracting you idiots with ridiculous walls and harassment laws that turned out to be unconstitutional....

You've been pushing it for years and you don't have a link? DURR

Illegal aliens are treated in the maternity wards at Parkland free of charge

They may go on welfare afterwards thanks to their new anchor baby but not before or during the birth

Just like every other Hospital in the country. Could we talk about American citizens please? Man....

 

[Harpy Eagle]

So you expose your justifying of your position by telling us about your stakes in companies doing business outside the U.S.

Ok, but jobs and work is what American's need most, and not just stocks that benefit a class of people that make up a small number of the overall numbers that are needed to make this nation strong be it through in and through out again.

The easy way isn't always the right way, and it has shown throughout the nation that we have a problem that seems to be getting worse and worse.

There are 7 million unfilled jobs in the US right now. Why do we need more?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Perhaps you didn't catch the news that last month the economy added a whopping 266,000 jobs, and that manufacturing jobs rose by 54,000.

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

But 41,000 of those 54,000 were people returning from the strike

 

[francoHFW]

That is not a Charity Hospital you have to pay, absolutely oblivious brainwashed functional moron LOL. Yes I looked at the website.

If you can pay you dont go to Parkland

If you are an illegal alien about to drop an anchor baby you go to Parkland for free sevice

If you're an illegal alien, you're a victim of American imperialism of Central and South America. CIA in South America | Geopolitical Monitor

We all have our problems

Just stop bringing them to the US when you dont belong here

nobody is bringing them here, brainwashed functional moron.
so your whole country is a war zone because of the GOP never ending War on Drugs? Is global warming hitting you so hard that farms have just dried up like in Central America? These people have no choice and the GOP gives them an open invitation to come here get a fake ID work pay taxes buy a house get Healthcare etc etc etc. Great job! Sorry you don't get any actual news dummy whoops brain-washed functional dummy.

You sound so uninformed about America I doubt if you even are an American

Any argument at all? Or just the usual idiocy? So who's bringing these illegals here LOL? Do you have a Social Security card that cannot be faked in your imaginary America? What the hell are you babbling about LOL?

 

[francoHFW]

Yes as long as you have no assets and no address and you can get away with this. If you have an address or assets you're screwed. And you don't get any preventive care. That's why this is so dumb....If you are an illegal alien you can go to any emergency room and get care. Parkland is no different. That is the stupid GOP system. In a blue state they would have Medicaid or insurance. Pass the goddamn 2010 Democratic comprehensive immigration bill with an ID card and get the damn system organized. And no that doesn't mean throwing 12 million hard-working illegals out of the country when your party invited them in. Right now all your party does is distract you with bologna that won't work and is un American

2010 Democratic comprehensive immigration bill with an ID card

Bill #?
Link to the bill?

Google it troll. It started with an ID card, which the GOP has blocked forever because they actually love the cheap easily bullied labor and distracting you idiots with ridiculous walls and harassment laws that turned out to be unconstitutional....

You've been pushing it for years and you don't have a link? DURR

Illegal aliens are treated in the maternity wards at Parkland free of charge

They may go on welfare afterwards thanks to their new anchor baby but not before or during the birth

Just like every other Hospital in the country. Could we talk about American citizens please? Man....

That is American citizens with an address and assets LOL...

 

[Correll]

No the Democratic Rich unfairly profits off of our Healthcare system.

What the hell are you talking about, brainwashed functional moron.... LOL I caramba.

Francho cant keep up without hurling personal insults

Liberals generally, can't make a real supporting argument.


STOP for liberals, is at best, three posts in, the personal insults start, and they just grow and grow, while any attempts at making or defending real points about issues, decrease rapidly.

Most of the time when someone gets extremely angry in a debate, is when they start losing it and they know it. That's when the anger and insults start flying out. Anytime someone is attempting to defend an indefensible position, and someone hits them with the truth that immediately destroys their position, then get ready for the anger and insults etc to come next.

Which is pretty much every time some one seriously challenges a liberals position.


How often do you NOT have that happen, when you talk to ta liberal about anything significant?

 

[Mac-7]

Yes as long as you have no assets and no address and you can get away with this. If you have an address or assets you're screwed. And you don't get any preventive care. That's why this is so dumb....If you are an illegal alien you can go to any emergency room and get care. Parkland is no different. That is the stupid GOP system. In a blue state they would have Medicaid or insurance. Pass the goddamn 2010 Democratic comprehensive immigration bill with an ID card and get the damn system organized. And no that doesn't mean throwing 12 million hard-working illegals out of the country when your party invited them in. Right now all your party does is distract you with bologna that won't work and is un American

2010 Democratic comprehensive immigration bill with an ID card

Bill #?
Link to the bill?

Google it troll. It started with an ID card, which the GOP has blocked forever because they actually love the cheap easily bullied labor and distracting you idiots with ridiculous walls and harassment laws that turned out to be unconstitutional....

You've been pushing it for years and you don't have a link? DURR

Illegal aliens are treated in the maternity wards at Parkland free of charge

They may go on welfare afterwards thanks to their new anchor baby but not before or during the birth

Just like every other Hospital in the country. Could we talk about American citizens please? Man....

Parkland is a charity hospital that exists to serve the poor

 

[Mac-7]

If you can pay you dont go to Parkland

If you are an illegal alien about to drop an anchor baby you go to Parkland for free sevice

If you're an illegal alien, you're a victim of American imperialism of Central and South America. CIA in South America | Geopolitical Monitor

We all have our problems

Just stop bringing them to the US when you dont belong here

nobody is bringing them here, brainwashed functional moron.
so your whole country is a war zone because of the GOP never ending War on Drugs? Is global warming hitting you so hard that farms have just dried up like in Central America? These people have no choice and the GOP gives them an open invitation to come here get a fake ID work pay taxes buy a house get Healthcare etc etc etc. Great job! Sorry you don't get any actual news dummy whoops brain-washed functional dummy.

You sound so uninformed about America I doubt if you even are an American

Any argument at all? Or just the usual idiocy? So who's bringing these illegals here LOL? Do you have a Social Security card that cannot be faked in your imaginary America? What the hell are you babbling about LOL?

Who is bringing the illegals here?

The mexican mafia and bleeding heart liberals in the democrat party

 

[Mac-7]

What the hell are you talking about, brainwashed functional moron.... LOL I caramba.

Francho cant keep up without hurling personal insults

Liberals generally, can't make a real supporting argument.


STOP for liberals, is at best, three posts in, the personal insults start, and they just grow and grow, while any attempts at making or defending real points about issues, decrease rapidly.

Most of the time when someone gets extremely angry in a debate, is when they start losing it and they know it. That's when the anger and insults start flying out. Anytime someone is attempting to defend an indefensible position, and someone hits them with the truth that immediately destroys their position, then get ready for the anger and insults etc to come next.

Which is pretty much every time some one seriously challenges a liberals position.


How often do you NOT have that happen, when you talk to ta liberal about anything significant?

I get a lot of insults from the left

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ok, but jobs and work is what American's need most, and not just stocks that benefit a class of people that make up a small number of the overall numbers that are needed to make this nation strong be it through in and through out again.

I don't think we need anymore jobs. We have more than enough as it is. Novembers jobs report certainly added to it.

I agree we don't need more jobs but we do need better jobs with better pay, and better benefits. We have far too many American workers who have to rely on government help to support their families. The problem of course, is that American workers are no longer the most skilled workers in the world and thus it is hard to justify higher pay without higher productivity.

There are good jobs around, but the real problem are the drugs we have in this country. Better jobs usually have drug screening as a condition of employment, and lower paying jobs don't. So people opt to work for less money so they can continue smoking pot.

I had tenants like that a few years ago. It was a young couple. Good kids, paid rent albeit late which I didn't care about. But they both worked fast food jobs because they loved their pot and couldn't give it up for anything. When my employer looks for new employees, the same thing. People are interested in the job, but can't pass a drug test. It's the same story at just about any company. I talk to people from many different industries.

To add insult to injury, states are legalizing pot, but just because it's legal doesn't mean companies don't do drug testing.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You hit on two very important points with your reply. What you don't know is that Medicare and Medicaid does exactly that. They only pay about 2/3 for the services of government patients. And yes, health facilities have to recoup those losses by increased prices.

Not that's not bad for an eighty dollar doctors visit, but real bad for a 400K surgery and post care, which most of us will receive when we are on Medicare.

So now we have government healthcare. So who is going to make up the difference in the shortages once there is no private insurance to sack with those losses?

Believe me, the payment is more than two thirds. I'm on Medicare, and have never paid the other third. Link please, proving it is only two thirds? Never heard of such a thing.

No one ever said that individuals couldn't buy into their own private plan. I know quite a few countries that have universal care with the ability to purchase a private plan.

No, they won't bill you either. They just take the loss. I worked in medical for ten years. My father is on Medicare, and he tells me what's going on with his bills. He does have secondary insurance that covers what Medicare doesn't, but a lot of older folks are not in that financial position to get that private policy.

Doctors limit new Medicare patients - USATODAY.com

You are both right and wrong.

Medicare reimbursement rates, that is Medicare approved amounts (which for part B is 80% from Medicare and 20% from the patient) is determined based on the relative, average costs of providing a service to a Medicare patient, and then adjusted to account for other provider expenses, including malpractice insurance and office-based practice costs.

Contrary to claims of a lot of people, Medicare rates are not determined by what insurance companies pay. It's actually the opposite in most cases because most insurance reimbursements today is paid to contracted providers. The medicare reimbursement rate provides a basis for negotiating contracts which makes Medicare and Insurance reimbursement rates pretty close in most places.

Getting back to the question at hand, for many years many healthcare providers would bill patients for the difference between Medicare rates and their fee . If a doctor accepted Medicare as full payment, they were "Accepting Medicare Assignment". At one time, about 25% of doctors would not accept Medicare Assignment and would bill the patient the difference. Today, due to the fact there is little difference between insurance reimbursement rates and Medicare and the number of Medicare patients, about 95% of doctors today accept Medicare Assignment. Thus patients rarely see any bill if they pay their 20% coinsurance at time service or have insurance supplement.

That's actually kind of the law. But my point is, they have to raise their rates on everybody, so it's a primary factor in private insurance premiums going up. But this is why when you see health facilities close down, they are usually in lower income areas where most of the patients are government patients and there are little to no private pay patients. There is nobody to make up the loss on.

When I got into the business back in 1979, Medicare was a gold mine for my company. It was like they were flushed with money. All you had to do is send them a bill, and they paid it no questions asked. As the funds started to show signs of weakness, that's when they started lowering their reimbursement rates. So what did we do? We raised the price of renting our hospital equipment, and again, you can't just raise it on one group of payers, you have to raise it on everybody.


Medicare is not self- supportive either. They are subsidized with money from the general fund, and of course, always trying to use as little as possible.

Ray, I don't believe your last statement is correct. Total Medicare expenditures in 2018 were $740.6 billion, and total income for for the trust funds was $755.7 billion, which consisted of $745.9 billion in non-interest income and $9.8 billion in interest earnings. Assets held in special issue U.S. Treasury securities increased by $15.1 billion to $304.7 billion. If by 2026, there is no change in the law, the Medicare Trust Funds will be depleted to a point where it will become a budget item.

I suspect that closures of healthcare facilities in low income areas is caused by lack of payment for services received. These facilities are supported primarily by Medicaid which is a state program whose reimbursement rate is determined by the state legislature each year. If state revenues decrease reimbursement rates are cut. I remember living in Florida during a recession in which the the state ran short of money in October. There were no medicaid reimbursements till Feb.

Medicare operates is entirely differently than Medicaid. All Medicare medical costs are being paid for through the Medicare Trust Funds. In few years congress will have to start supplementing these funds or Medicare taxes will have to be increased. The budget items for Medicare will not be discretionary which means congress can not cut those funds.

Lastly, I think you might be confused as to how Medicare determines reimbursement rates. The rates are not dependent on what insurance companies pay or the patient. You're correct that Medicare increases in reimbursement rates does result in insurance reimbursement rate increases in since insurance companies rely on Medicare rate changes as a starting point for contract negotiations.

Medicare uses a committee of 26 physician representatives nominated from the the major specialty societies to look at actual cost of delivery of of all services, the CPT codes. Healthcare providers supply CMS with actual cost in delivering each service. The committee compares these costs against previous costs to determine whether an adjust in reimbursement is required. Each code is reviewed at least once every 5 years. Yearly the committee submits recommended changes in reimbursement rates to CMS. So you see Medicare reimbursement rates are not based on what insurance or individuals pay for services. Even if insurance companies disappeared, there would be little impact on Medicare reimbursements.

The various states use their own methods in determining Medicaid reimbursement. Unfortunately, these methods are very dependent on state revenues. So a bad year in state revenues means a bad for Medicaid reimbursements. Thus medical facilities that are very dependent on Medicaid would have a hard time.
How is Medicare funded? | Medicare
How Medicare, Other Payers Determine Physician Reimbursement Rates

It's irrelevant since different hospitals and doctors charge different fees. You might go for heart surgery at one place for 300K, and another place for 400K. Medicare will only reimburse what they see fit, so the place that charges 400K will get shorted.

 

[francoHFW]

What the hell are you talking about, brainwashed functional moron.... LOL I caramba.

Francho cant keep up without hurling personal insults

Liberals generally, can't make a real supporting argument.


STOP for liberals, is at best, three posts in, the personal insults start, and they just grow and grow, while any attempts at making or defending real points about issues, decrease rapidly.

Most of the time when someone gets extremely angry in a debate, is when they start losing it and they know it. That's when the anger and insults start flying out. Anytime someone is attempting to defend an indefensible position, and someone hits them with the truth that immediately destroys their position, then get ready for the anger and insults etc to come next.

Which is pretty much every time some one seriously challenges a liberals position.


How often do you NOT have that happen, when you talk to ta liberal about anything significant?

The problem is your facts are all garbage, brainwashed emotional moron... The entire world outside your bubble of GOP bologna agrees you are as good as insane along with your propaganda machine. All you know is phony scandals and misinformation and Hate based on character assassination based on nothing.

 

[francoHFW]

Francho cant keep up without hurling personal insults

Liberals generally, can't make a real supporting argument.


STOP for liberals, is at best, three posts in, the personal insults start, and they just grow and grow, while any attempts at making or defending real points about issues, decrease rapidly.

Most of the time when someone gets extremely angry in a debate, is when they start losing it and they know it. That's when the anger and insults start flying out. Anytime someone is attempting to defend an indefensible position, and someone hits them with the truth that immediately destroys their position, then get ready for the anger and insults etc to come next.

Which is pretty much every time some one seriously challenges a liberals position.


How often do you NOT have that happen, when you talk to ta liberal about anything significant?

I get a lot of insults from the left

GOP trolls or whatever you want to call them are always calling Democrats on here faggets stupid Liars etc etc. Those are personal insults that mean nothing. When I call you a brainwashed functional moron it is the most important story of the last 35 years in politics. You believe a mountain of garbage propaganda and so many phony scandals but now we have the deep state conspiracy where every intelligent inform person in the world is in on the conspiracy against your poor scumbag Heroes... Scumbag based on who's in prison and who is conspirator number one and who lies because they fear him. Or because they are bought off like most of the GOP hierarchy at this point.... The world is aghast.

 

[Flopper]

Not all work is created equal, the Boomer generation was a lazy generation.

It probably takes more "work", as in exertion to post on a forum like this than to do the bare minimum required at a service job - some of those 'jobs' were so easy, I practically did them in my sleep while working on my entrepreneurship.

From that matter, pro-athletes, or performers such as David Blaine voluntarily do "work", such as living for 40 days in cased by Ice for fun that most Americans would be scared to.

Some people just don't care. And for that matter, the best workers, such as CEOs like David Allen are able to perform what most would consider "a lot of work" while being fairly "relaxed" or in the zone, not an idiot who is bumbling and incompetent ,and false equates "hard" work with wasted energy and stress due to his own idiocy and lack of creativity or fluidity to do anything which couldn't be better automated by a robot - it would be the equivalent of beating your head against a brick wall and calling that "hard" work, because you're too stupid, inept, or lazy to learn a better way or method, not because it's efficient in terms of time, energy, productivity and such.

Many Americans are so stupid they don't even know how much "work" they actually do, overestimate they actual hours they "worked", and don't even know the difference between hours spent on the "clock" and actual productivity, many of which hours are just wasted, unproductive effort - it's pretty sad really, and any real worker or entrepreneur would be rolling in his grave over what the average inept, immoral idiot pretends or purports to be "work".


And yes, lately I am of the opinion that people who supposedly "have" to work 100 hours a week for minimum wage due to having multiple babies which they can't support are nothing to be admired, they to some extent, put themselves in that situation due to their own immoral life choices, choosing to pop out children like rabbits instead of pursue education or entrepreneurship as I have.

Some CEOs voluntarily work 100 weeks because they enjoy it and care about adding value to their company, not because they're lazy, immoral, inept and are practically forced to in order to meet the child support demands due to the bastard children they sired.

Yeah, screw the non Rich who are now 70% of the country thanks to your lie and steal GOP, super duper. why is the richest country in the world the only modern country that screws over their citizens. Look in the mirror jackass.

I'm a failed entrepreneur, and sometimes I honestly feel that the "rich" are generous in not outright eliminating or enslaving the masses, due to how immoral many, but not all of them are, and how little they care for anything resembling the American Dream, the "Puritan work ethic", or other cultural mythos which are really only for the chosen few, not the many selfish, lazy and immoral.

I'm sure there are immoral and entitled "rich", possibly more likely in the case of those who didn't earn it through legitimate mean, such as lottery, but the immorality of the "average" person seems stronger in my opinion, especially given that "absolute poverty" is rare to nonexistent according to economists such as Jolan Chang, and that most is "relative poverty", or people just selfishly envying what others have, not something which accounts for their actual living conditions.

I accepted my right to fail, potentially even end up homeless, but I went with the Dream regardless, many simply don't care.

Most Americans, actually about 99% are not entrepreneurs. When it comes to risking their future and that of their family on a business scheme, they are simply not prepared to do that. They want a steady job, a livable income, retirement, and healthcare.

I believe one of the big problems we face, is most Americans in the market for a job are being forced into an entrepreneurial mode which they are not prepared for. They have to accept contract work or dead end jobs with few if any benefits and little hope that their employer's success will be shared with the employees. This is not what most people want in a job but they don't have much choice today. They owe their job to the fact that their employer is unable to replace them with a machine or ship their jobs overseas. The result is there is no employer or employee loyalty.

They want a steady job, a livable income, retirement, and healthcare.

The steadiest jobs with a livable income are in manufacturing of real consumer goods that everyone needs and uses

The fastest growing manufacturing in the US is specialty manufacturing which is based on quick setups and fast delivery, something foreign competitors can't provide. Unfortunately, this type of business is not that steady because contracts are of short duration. The large scale manufacturing is more stable but is usually in direct competition with foreign competitors.

 

[Mac-7]

Not all work is created equal, the Boomer generation was a lazy generation.

It probably takes more "work", as in exertion to post on a forum like this than to do the bare minimum required at a service job - some of those 'jobs' were so easy, I practically did them in my sleep while working on my entrepreneurship.

From that matter, pro-athletes, or performers such as David Blaine voluntarily do "work", such as living for 40 days in cased by Ice for fun that most Americans would be scared to.

Some people just don't care. And for that matter, the best workers, such as CEOs like David Allen are able to perform what most would consider "a lot of work" while being fairly "relaxed" or in the zone, not an idiot who is bumbling and incompetent ,and false equates "hard" work with wasted energy and stress due to his own idiocy and lack of creativity or fluidity to do anything which couldn't be better automated by a robot - it would be the equivalent of beating your head against a brick wall and calling that "hard" work, because you're too stupid, inept, or lazy to learn a better way or method, not because it's efficient in terms of time, energy, productivity and such.

Many Americans are so stupid they don't even know how much "work" they actually do, overestimate they actual hours they "worked", and don't even know the difference between hours spent on the "clock" and actual productivity, many of which hours are just wasted, unproductive effort - it's pretty sad really, and any real worker or entrepreneur would be rolling in his grave over what the average inept, immoral idiot pretends or purports to be "work".


And yes, lately I am of the opinion that people who supposedly "have" to work 100 hours a week for minimum wage due to having multiple babies which they can't support are nothing to be admired, they to some extent, put themselves in that situation due to their own immoral life choices, choosing to pop out children like rabbits instead of pursue education or entrepreneurship as I have.

Some CEOs voluntarily work 100 weeks because they enjoy it and care about adding value to their company, not because they're lazy, immoral, inept and are practically forced to in order to meet the child support demands due to the bastard children they sired.

Yeah, screw the non Rich who are now 70% of the country thanks to your lie and steal GOP, super duper. why is the richest country in the world the only modern country that screws over their citizens. Look in the mirror jackass.

I'm a failed entrepreneur, and sometimes I honestly feel that the "rich" are generous in not outright eliminating or enslaving the masses, due to how immoral many, but not all of them are, and how little they care for anything resembling the American Dream, the "Puritan work ethic", or other cultural mythos which are really only for the chosen few, not the many selfish, lazy and immoral.

I'm sure there are immoral and entitled "rich", possibly more likely in the case of those who didn't earn it through legitimate mean, such as lottery, but the immorality of the "average" person seems stronger in my opinion, especially given that "absolute poverty" is rare to nonexistent according to economists such as Jolan Chang, and that most is "relative poverty", or people just selfishly envying what others have, not something which accounts for their actual living conditions.

I accepted my right to fail, potentially even end up homeless, but I went with the Dream regardless, many simply don't care.

Most Americans, actually about 99% are not entrepreneurs. When it comes to risking their future and that of their family on a business scheme, they are simply not prepared to do that. They want a steady job, a livable income, retirement, and healthcare.

I believe one of the big problems we face, is most Americans in the market for a job are being forced into an entrepreneurial mode which they are not prepared for. They have to accept contract work or dead end jobs with few if any benefits and little hope that their employer's success will be shared with the employees. This is not what most people want in a job but they don't have much choice today. They owe their job to the fact that their employer is unable to replace them with a machine or ship their jobs overseas. The result is there is no employer or employee loyalty.

They want a steady job, a livable income, retirement, and healthcare.

The steadiest jobs with a livable income are in manufacturing of real consumer goods that everyone needs and uses

The fastest growing manufacturing in the US is specialty manufacturing which is based on quick setups and fast delivery, something foreign competitors can't provide. Unfortunately, this type of business is not that steady because contracts are of short duration. The large scale manufacturing is more stable but is usually in direct competition with foreign competitors.

I dont see the choice as either/or

We can do both

 

[Harpy Eagle]

If you're an illegal alien, you're a victim of American imperialism of Central and South America. CIA in South America | Geopolitical Monitor

We all have our problems

Just stop bringing them to the US when you dont belong here

nobody is bringing them here, brainwashed functional moron.
so your whole country is a war zone because of the GOP never ending War on Drugs? Is global warming hitting you so hard that farms have just dried up like in Central America? These people have no choice and the GOP gives them an open invitation to come here get a fake ID work pay taxes buy a house get Healthcare etc etc etc. Great job! Sorry you don't get any actual news dummy whoops brain-washed functional dummy.

You sound so uninformed about America I doubt if you even are an American

Any argument at all? Or just the usual idiocy? So who's bringing these illegals here LOL? Do you have a Social Security card that cannot be faked in your imaginary America? What the hell are you babbling about LOL?

Who is bringing the illegals here?

Business owners that are will to pay them when they get here