Allow us to install smart meters or lose your water ...

[Billo_Really]

Smart appliances will also be able to respond to signals from your energy provider to avoid using energy during times of peak demand. This is more complicated than a simple on and off switch. For instance, a smart air conditioner might extend its cycle time slightly to reduce its load on the grid; while not noticeable to you, millions of air conditioners acting the same way could significantly reduce the load on the power grid. Likewise, a smart refrigerator could defer its defrost cycle until off-peak hours, or a smart dishwasher might defer running until off-peak hours.

..

That's a control signal to an appliance that has the software and electronics already built in to the equipment. That has nothing to do with controlling sub-feed circuit breakers. And it's also done at your discretion. All the utility company can do is offer you incentives to do this, they cannot force it on you.

 

[depotoo]

Smart appliances will also be able to respond to signals from your energy provider to avoid using energy during times of peak demand. This is more complicated than a simple on and off switch. For instance, a smart air conditioner might extend its cycle time slightly to reduce its load on the grid; while not noticeable to you, millions of air conditioners acting the same way could significantly reduce the load on the power grid. Likewise, a smart refrigerator could defer its defrost cycle until off-peak hours, or a smart dishwasher might defer running until off-peak hours.

..

That's a control signal to an appliance that has the software and electronics already built in to the equipment. That has nothing to do with controlling sub-feed circuit breakers. And it's also done at your discretion. All the utility company can do is offer you incentives to do this, they cannot force it on you.

SmartGrid.gov: What is the Smart Grid?
read this.
Possibly he should not have used the word -breakers-, but we do know with the new appliances and smart grid the utilities will have the ability to turn your home equipment down through the use of these smart chips, just as a breaker would cut power, if they so see fit.

 

[flacaltenn]

Hey Thomas Edison, please tell me HOW current appliances could be cut off TODAY?

Would little gremlins crawl out of the meter and yank the 110 cords out of the wall?

A smart power grid will allow utilities and consumers to reduce peak demand and help avert blackouts - Economic Times
Appliances are being enabled to be controlled, dear, through the grid, through smart technology.

I understand we'll have to have new appliances because there aren't just chips you can insert into the refrigerator you already own.

But flacaltenn claims he has a degree in electrical engineering, so his fear infested rant is laughable.

The appliances are being built. Depotoo and I posted the examples from GE.. Today your garage door can be converted into an internet appliance just as easily as your fridge. Like I said, today it is a voluntary option and the user can allow the power utility to schedule their appliances TODAY. THe advantage supposedly being taking advantage of "off peak" pricing. California is already starting to enforce a requirement of having HVAC units capable of being INDIVIDUALLY disabled by the central grid controllers..

So much for BillOReally's claim that the power company can't come thru the outside service box. They CAN TODAY if they are INVITED IN. In fact, the control signaling is ALREADY there in a Smart Meter.. Tomorrow -- you won't have a choice when the grid starts winking out from all that flaky wind and solar you guys bought.

You 2 yuck it up about my "background".. I have been blessed with a very productive and amazing career.. And I don't claim to have "a degree in EE".. I have SEVERAL in and around Electrical Engineering. PM me if you want to chat about machine intelligience, optical computing, biomedical instrumentation, circuit design and firmware, Shuttle launch instrumentation, communications and signal intelligience gathering, earth resource image processing, virtual reality simulation or any number of related projects I've contributed to..

 

[rightwinger]

Your Refrigerator is going to be so smart it will start calling you fat when you open the door

 

[Bfgrn]

A smart power grid will allow utilities and consumers to reduce peak demand and help avert blackouts - Economic Times
Appliances are being enabled to be controlled, dear, through the grid, through smart technology.

I understand we'll have to have new appliances because there aren't just chips you can insert into the refrigerator you already own.

But flacaltenn claims he has a degree in electrical engineering, so his fear infested rant is laughable.

The appliances are being built. Depotoo and I posted the examples from GE.. Today your garage door can be converted into an internet appliance just as easily as your fridge. Like I said, today it is a voluntary option and the user can allow the power utility to schedule their appliances TODAY. THe advantage supposedly being taking advantage of "off peak" pricing. California is already starting to enforce a requirement of having HVAC units capable of being INDIVIDUALLY disabled by the central grid controllers..

So much for BillOReally's claim that the power company can't come thru the outside service box. They CAN TODAY if they are INVITED IN. In fact, the control signaling is ALREADY there in a Smart Meter.. Tomorrow -- you won't have a choice when the grid starts winking out from all that flaky wind and solar you guys bought.

You 2 yuck it up about my "background".. I have been blessed with a very productive and amazing career.. And I don't claim to have "a degree in EE".. I have SEVERAL in and around Electrical Engineering. PM me if you want to chat about machine intelligience, optical computing, biomedical instrumentation, circuit design and firmware, Shuttle launch instrumentation, communications and signal intelligience gathering, earth resource image processing, virtual reality simulation or any number of related projects I've contributed to..

I found you a new avatar...you're welcome.

 

[depotoo]

Your Refrigerator is going to be so smart it will start calling you fat when you open the door

almost -

Are you as smart as LG’s fridge?
But apparently, I wasn’t thinking big enough. This fridge has ‘device-to-device connectivity’ and a ‘smart manager’. Still lost? Well, it will know what food you’ve got, when these items will go off and whether you’ve run out of a certain foodstuff.

You can use its in-built screen to create shopping lists and shop online, to ‘eliminate the hassle of having to write down grocery shopping lists the old-fashioned way’ (LG’s words, not mine). It gets better (or worse). Based on the personal details you share with your fridge, its ‘health manager’ will tell you what you should be eating and helpfully suggest a diet plan.

 

[flacaltenn]

Your Refrigerator is going to be so smart it will start calling you fat when you open the door

It COULD call you out for 20 jumping jacks and COUNT them before opening... AND notify Michelle Obama of non-compliance.

 

[depotoo]

I understand we'll have to have new appliances because there aren't just chips you can insert into the refrigerator you already own.

But flacaltenn claims he has a degree in electrical engineering, so his fear infested rant is laughable.

The appliances are being built. Depotoo and I posted the examples from GE.. Today your garage door can be converted into an internet appliance just as easily as your fridge. Like I said, today it is a voluntary option and the user can allow the power utility to schedule their appliances TODAY. THe advantage supposedly being taking advantage of "off peak" pricing. California is already starting to enforce a requirement of having HVAC units capable of being INDIVIDUALLY disabled by the central grid controllers..

So much for BillOReally's claim that the power company can't come thru the outside service box. They CAN TODAY if they are INVITED IN. In fact, the control signaling is ALREADY there in a Smart Meter.. Tomorrow -- you won't have a choice when the grid starts winking out from all that flaky wind and solar you guys bought.

You 2 yuck it up about my "background".. I have been blessed with a very productive and amazing career.. And I don't claim to have "a degree in EE".. I have SEVERAL in and around Electrical Engineering. PM me if you want to chat about machine intelligience, optical computing, biomedical instrumentation, circuit design and firmware, Shuttle launch instrumentation, communications and signal intelligience gathering, earth resource image processing, virtual reality simulation or any number of related projects I've contributed to..

I found you a new avatar...you're welcome.

So are you expecting to keep the same appliances you have for the rest of your life?
Can't back up your assertions anymore so you have to resort to cartoons?

 

[flacaltenn]

Where this is heading??

This page has moved...

GE_ancillary_services_pilot.pdf

Abstract—This paper summarizes the results from a
PG&E pilot designed to assess the ability to use air
conditioner direct load control to provide ancillary
services. The study included nearly 2,000 residential
households, with control devices that were instructed to
cause an immediate and complete shutdown of the air
conditioner compressor 71 times over a two and half
month period. It summarizes the start and total ramp time
of AC load response, the magnitude of the response, the
effect of the curtailments on customers comfort and
satisfaction, and the approach to providing near real time
visibility of the air conditioner electricity demand. [1]

The number of direct load control participants was increased
on each of the selected feeders to ensure that approximately
500 SmartAC customers were present. Two technologies with
the capability of shutting down the air conditioner compressor
remotely were used: load control switches and programmable
communicating thermostats. For each feeder, the goal was to
include 400 AC units with direct load control switches and
about 100 AC units with programmable communicating
thermostats. Table 1 summarizes the number of participants in
each feeder for the pilot.

Smart Meter, Dumb Idea? - WSJ.com

As a result, the utility will do a pilot program this summer to test customer acceptance of
smart meters and variable pricing. Some 3,000 customers have volunteered, and the utility
intends to see whether people cut energy use during times that prices rise. Some consumers
will have "energy orbs" in their homes that change color, a visible indication of how prices
are changing, as a way to stimulate behavior changes.

For instance, Mr. Hawiger favors expanding existing air conditioner-cycling programs, where
utilities have the ability to control air conditioners so they take turns coming on and off,
reducing the drag on the electric system. He says the air-conditioner controllers can provide
much of the benefit at a fraction the cost of installing millions of smart meters. These
programs control temperature settings and compressors to reduce overall energy use.

PG&E intends to educate customers about equipment that can be installed to form home
networks, too, but won't sell the products or support the devices for at least a year or two.
Mr. Hawiger says this means that there will be millions of smart meters bolted to homes but
full functionality won't happen anytime soon, reducing the bang for the buck.

Clearly -- they want you to assist them in having access to your appliances..

 

[depotoo]

Where this is heading??

This page has moved...

GE_ancillary_services_pilot.pdf

Abstract—This paper summarizes the results from a
PG&E pilot designed to assess the ability to use air
conditioner direct load control to provide ancillary
services. The study included nearly 2,000 residential
households, with control devices that were instructed to
cause an immediate and complete shutdown of the air
conditioner compressor 71 times over a two and half
month period. It summarizes the start and total ramp time
of AC load response, the magnitude of the response, the
effect of the curtailments on customers comfort and
satisfaction, and the approach to providing near real time
visibility of the air conditioner electricity demand. [1]

The number of direct load control participants was increased
on each of the selected feeders to ensure that approximately
500 SmartAC customers were present. Two technologies with
the capability of shutting down the air conditioner compressor
remotely were used: load control switches and programmable
communicating thermostats. For each feeder, the goal was to
include 400 AC units with direct load control switches and
about 100 AC units with programmable communicating
thermostats. Table 1 summarizes the number of participants in
each feeder for the pilot.

Smart Meter, Dumb Idea? - WSJ.com

As a result, the utility will do a pilot program this summer to test customer acceptance of
smart meters and variable pricing. Some 3,000 customers have volunteered, and the utility
intends to see whether people cut energy use during times that prices rise. Some consumers
will have "energy orbs" in their homes that change color, a visible indication of how prices
are changing, as a way to stimulate behavior changes.

For instance, Mr. Hawiger favors expanding existing air conditioner-cycling programs, where
utilities have the ability to control air conditioners so they take turns coming on and off,
reducing the drag on the electric system. He says the air-conditioner controllers can provide
much of the benefit at a fraction the cost of installing millions of smart meters. These
programs control temperature settings and compressors to reduce overall energy use.

PG&E intends to educate customers about equipment that can be installed to form home
networks, too, but won't sell the products or support the devices for at least a year or two.
Mr. Hawiger says this means that there will be millions of smart meters bolted to homes but
full functionality won't happen anytime soon, reducing the bang for the buck.

Clearly -- they want you to assist them in having access to your appliances..

why others are not concerned I do not know.

 

[Clementine]

... said the city of Baraboo, Wisconsin to an 81-year-old woman who

(a) has reason to believe that earlier smart meters installed on the outside of her house affected her heart and
(b) is a sharp cookie who is concerned about the privacy issues involved with smart meters.

81-year-old Baraboo woman has water shut off - WXOW News 19 La Crosse, WI ? News, Weather and Sports |


Smart meters collect extensive information about your activity, including for instance when your household alarms are on. This vital information about you is subject to hacking.

I heard her on the radio this morning and she is on the ball. She cares about both her health and the principle involved. People shouldn't be able to say, "make all the information about your comings and goings and other habits available to us, or you don't get utilities".

She's been without running water for two days now. Drinking bottled water, cooking and flushing with water brought over by people who've heard of her plight, doing her laundry and bathing at her daughter's house.

She's gonna tough this out.

May Baraboo feel the heat of bad press!

There is absolutely nothing wrong with smart meters and they don't affect anyone's heart.

What is with these people? You want us to go back to the stone age?

How does not doing something revert one back to the stone age? So, if I don't buy the new biohazard CFL's, I thus must want to go back to torches?



Some of you libs are ******* beyond retarded.

The pro-choice attitude disappears when it comes to obeying liberal orders. No choice on Obamacare. No choice on smart meters. No choice on not joining unions at some jobs. No choice in lightbulbs. No choice in the quality of your toilet or the dependability of your appliances. No big, safe cars, if they had their way. No guns, if they could only shred the constitution and bill of rights. If liberals had their way, we would go back to the stone ages because they hate trucks, big houses or any other luxury (unless it's theirs) and they ***** about conserving water and we're supposed to only use one square of toilet paper. I don't know how we can do that and still save water unless....... ew, I don't want to think about it.

Liberals are about taking away your choices and forcing you to pay for other people's choices that they agree with. They know better how we should run our lives and they intend to force us to live as they see fit. Now, do as you're told and shut up. The libs are our new gods.

 

[Wildman]

someone said

Some of you libs are ******* beyond retarded.

i agree, here is another one of their favorite excuses

if you have nothing to hide, why are you afraid

smart meters are for dumb, stupid libertards

 

[flacaltenn]

Where this is heading??

This page has moved...

GE_ancillary_services_pilot.pdf

Abstract—This paper summarizes the results from a
PG&E pilot designed to assess the ability to use air
conditioner direct load control to provide ancillary
services. The study included nearly 2,000 residential
households, with control devices that were instructed to
cause an immediate and complete shutdown of the air
conditioner compressor 71 times over a two and half
month period. It summarizes the start and total ramp time
of AC load response, the magnitude of the response, the
effect of the curtailments on customers comfort and
satisfaction, and the approach to providing near real time
visibility of the air conditioner electricity demand. [1]

The number of direct load control participants was increased
on each of the selected feeders to ensure that approximately
500 SmartAC customers were present. Two technologies with
the capability of shutting down the air conditioner compressor
remotely were used: load control switches and programmable
communicating thermostats. For each feeder, the goal was to
include 400 AC units with direct load control switches and
about 100 AC units with programmable communicating
thermostats. Table 1 summarizes the number of participants in
each feeder for the pilot.

Smart Meter, Dumb Idea? - WSJ.com

As a result, the utility will do a pilot program this summer to test customer acceptance of
smart meters and variable pricing. Some 3,000 customers have volunteered, and the utility
intends to see whether people cut energy use during times that prices rise. Some consumers
will have "energy orbs" in their homes that change color, a visible indication of how prices
are changing, as a way to stimulate behavior changes.

For instance, Mr. Hawiger favors expanding existing air conditioner-cycling programs, where
utilities have the ability to control air conditioners so they take turns coming on and off,
reducing the drag on the electric system. He says the air-conditioner controllers can provide
much of the benefit at a fraction the cost of installing millions of smart meters. These
programs control temperature settings and compressors to reduce overall energy use.

PG&E intends to educate customers about equipment that can be installed to form home
networks, too, but won't sell the products or support the devices for at least a year or two.
Mr. Hawiger says this means that there will be millions of smart meters bolted to homes but
full functionality won't happen anytime soon, reducing the bang for the buck.

Clearly -- they want you to assist them in having access to your appliances..

why others are not concerned I do not know.

I think it's because all of us are trying to envision a better energy policy. And the current mantra of "sustainable alternatives" includes this tenet that to manage sketchy generators like wind and solar on the grid --- you merely need a "smart grid" and a trainload of batteries. So folks who WANT THAT VISION badly merely nod their approval..

Reality is a bit harsher than that simple prescription. As our Euro buds are figuring out looking at their skyrocketing energy bills and suffering grid generation.

Smart grid is ONLY NECCESSARY --- if you're plan is to keep electrical energy RARE and EXPENSIVE.. I think we ought to be aiming for CHEAP and PLENTIFUL.. But just the mention of plentiful energy causes spinal chills in some of our more "progressive" brethren. Too much development possible. Too little opportunity for them to micromanage everyone else's lives...

 

[percysunshine]

Where this is heading??


Clearly -- they want you to assist them in having access to your appliances..

Eventually they get access to the 'bedside toy' electric appliances. Piece of cake with wireless RF chips....that is the end game.

"Sorry honey. Pacific Gas and Electric says I have a headache."

 

[Bfgrn]

The appliances are being built. Depotoo and I posted the examples from GE.. Today your garage door can be converted into an internet appliance just as easily as your fridge. Like I said, today it is a voluntary option and the user can allow the power utility to schedule their appliances TODAY. THe advantage supposedly being taking advantage of "off peak" pricing. California is already starting to enforce a requirement of having HVAC units capable of being INDIVIDUALLY disabled by the central grid controllers..

So much for BillOReally's claim that the power company can't come thru the outside service box. They CAN TODAY if they are INVITED IN. In fact, the control signaling is ALREADY there in a Smart Meter.. Tomorrow -- you won't have a choice when the grid starts winking out from all that flaky wind and solar you guys bought.

You 2 yuck it up about my "background".. I have been blessed with a very productive and amazing career.. And I don't claim to have "a degree in EE".. I have SEVERAL in and around Electrical Engineering. PM me if you want to chat about machine intelligience, optical computing, biomedical instrumentation, circuit design and firmware, Shuttle launch instrumentation, communications and signal intelligience gathering, earth resource image processing, virtual reality simulation or any number of related projects I've contributed to..

I found you a new avatar...you're welcome.

So are you expecting to keep the same appliances you have for the rest of your life?
Can't back up your assertions anymore so you have to resort to cartoons?

WTF is wrong with your brain. Where do you come up with this shit?

 

[flacaltenn]

I found you a new avatar...you're welcome.

So are you expecting to keep the same appliances you have for the rest of your life?
Can't back up your assertions anymore so you have to resort to cartoons?

WTF is wrong with your brain. Where do you come up with this shit?

I did thank you for the avatar.. It's dear. Thanks, I'll consider replacing my old boring one.

You're stressed.. Go have some Jack Daniels or a sip of Port if you prefer..
I'm sure the muse of Harry Truman will recharge you soul soon..

 

[Bfgrn]

Where this is heading??





Clearly -- they want you to assist them in having access to your appliances..

why others are not concerned I do not know.

I think it's because all of us are trying to envision a better energy policy. And the current mantra of "sustainable alternatives" includes this tenet that to manage sketchy generators like wind and solar on the grid --- you merely need a "smart grid" and a trainload of batteries. So folks who WANT THAT VISION badly merely nod their approval..

Reality is a bit harsher than that simple prescription. As our Euro buds are figuring out looking at their skyrocketing energy bills and suffering grid generation.

Smart grid is ONLY NECCESSARY --- if you're plan is to keep electrical energy RARE and EXPENSIVE.. I think we ought to be aiming for CHEAP and PLENTIFUL.. But just the mention of plentiful energy causes spinal chills in some of our more "progressive" brethren. Too much development possible. Too little opportunity for them to micromanage everyone else's lives...

Progressive are ALL for PLENTIFUL, CHEAP and CLEAN. It is mindless puppets like you whose strings are attached to the fingers of the dirtiest, filthiest, most poisonous, most destructive fuels from hell who pay pseudo scientists and propagandists to pump out conspiracy theories of a smart grid = tyranny, the Illuminati, Bilderbergs and one-world government to protect their malfeasance of the market.

Progressives want to create a TRUE free market. A marketplace that does what a market is supposed to do, which is reward good behavior, which is efficiency, and to punish bad behavior, which is inefficiency and waste.

Right now, we have a marketplace that is governed by rules that were written by the incumbents -- coal and oil. And they will continue to use little puppets like you to spread their conspiracy theories so they can continue to hook an exhaust pipe to our mouths as they steal our wallets and demand we clean up after them and pay to treat the diseases they create.

 

[Billo_Really]

SmartGrid.gov: What is the Smart Grid?
read this.
Possibly he should not have used the word -breakers-, but we do know with the new appliances and smart grid the utilities will have the ability to turn your home equipment down through the use of these smart chips, just as a breaker would cut power, if they so see fit.

And there's nothing wrong with that if you opt to participate in the program. You give the utility company a little more control of your appliances and they give you rebates on your bill. And if you also happen to have solar or wind power generation on your site, you get additional rebates in the form of putting power back on the grid. So your bill is even further reduced.

You have no control over the meter they decide to use. You do have control over everything on the load side of that meter. The utility company needs your permission in order to install these devices.

 

[Billo_Really]

So much for BillOReally's claim that the power company can't come thru the outside service box.

"...come thru the outside service box..."?

Dude, electrical engineers don't talk like that! And that's not what I said. I said they don't have any jurisdiction on the load side of the meter. Which is true, they don't. I also said in post #101, that they can, as you say, "...come thru the outside service box..."..............that's too funny!

They CAN TODAY if they are INVITED IN. In fact, the control signaling is ALREADY there in a Smart Meter.. Tomorrow -- you won't have a choice when the grid starts winking out from all that flaky wind and solar you guys bought.

If the serving utility thinks you're going to **** up their grid, they won't allow you to install a "grid-tie" system in the first place.

You 2 yuck it up about my "background".. I have been blessed with a very productive and amazing career.. And I don't claim to have "a degree in EE".. I have SEVERAL in and around Electrical Engineering. PM me if you want to chat about machine intelligience, optical computing, biomedical instrumentation, circuit design and firmware, Shuttle launch instrumentation, communications and signal intelligience gathering, earth resource image processing, virtual reality simulation or any number of related projects I've contributed to..

That's more like electronics engineering, than it is electrical engineering. I stop at 60Hz.

 

[shintao]

Where this is heading??

This page has moved...

GE_ancillary_services_pilot.pdf

Abstract—This paper summarizes the results from a
PG&E pilot designed to assess the ability to use air
conditioner direct load control to provide ancillary
services. The study included nearly 2,000 residential
households, with control devices that were instructed to
cause an immediate and complete shutdown of the air
conditioner compressor 71 times over a two and half
month period. It summarizes the start and total ramp time
of AC load response, the magnitude of the response, the
effect of the curtailments on customers comfort and
satisfaction, and the approach to providing near real time
visibility of the air conditioner electricity demand. [1]

The number of direct load control participants was increased
on each of the selected feeders to ensure that approximately
500 SmartAC customers were present. Two technologies with
the capability of shutting down the air conditioner compressor
remotely were used: load control switches and programmable
communicating thermostats. For each feeder, the goal was to
include 400 AC units with direct load control switches and
about 100 AC units with programmable communicating
thermostats. Table 1 summarizes the number of participants in
each feeder for the pilot.

Smart Meter, Dumb Idea? - WSJ.com

As a result, the utility will do a pilot program this summer to test customer acceptance of
smart meters and variable pricing. Some 3,000 customers have volunteered, and the utility
intends to see whether people cut energy use during times that prices rise. Some consumers
will have "energy orbs" in their homes that change color, a visible indication of how prices
are changing, as a way to stimulate behavior changes.

For instance, Mr. Hawiger favors expanding existing air conditioner-cycling programs, where
utilities have the ability to control air conditioners so they take turns coming on and off,
reducing the drag on the electric system. He says the air-conditioner controllers can provide
much of the benefit at a fraction the cost of installing millions of smart meters. These
programs control temperature settings and compressors to reduce overall energy use.

PG&E intends to educate customers about equipment that can be installed to form home
networks, too, but won't sell the products or support the devices for at least a year or two.
Mr. Hawiger says this means that there will be millions of smart meters bolted to homes but
full functionality won't happen anytime soon, reducing the bang for the buck.

Clearly -- they want you to assist them in having access to your appliances..

why others are not concerned I do not know.

Especially the rich who got the bucks to run that air on several thousand square foot homes & garages & pool houses, etc. 24/7.