All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

[MartyNYC]

The APG had it had no administration, no civil service, no money, and had no sovereign territory of its own to defend.

The Palestinians declared independence on their own land, inside their own international borders. That the territory was crawling with foreign troops does not matter. Those troops had no sovereignty.

ARTICLE 3​

​

​

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence,...​

​

ARTICLE 4​

States are juridically equal, enjoy the same rights, and have equal capacity in their exercise. The rights of each one do not depend upon the power which it possesses to assure its exercise, but upon the simple fact of its existence as a person under international law.​

​

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

The idea that you can negate a peoples' rights by military force is unfounded in international law.

There never were palestinians. When Egypt seized Gaza in the ‘48 War and Jordan seized Judea and Samaria, calling them west bank, not “palestine,” neither country created a palestinian state—No such people existed.

 

[Hollie]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: I think this is a case of very shallow thought.

effective control

Effective control is a term defining occupation.

(COMMENT)

Actually, "occupation" includes the necessary condition of "Effective Control." But not all situations involving "Effective Control" are an "occupation." "Effective Control" is not unique to an "Occupation."

It is correct to say that once territory comes under the "effective control" of a "foreign armed forces" (Article 42, HR) the laws on occupation are applicable. It is also correct to say that Israel is is bound by the Law of Occupation (Article 43, HR) wherever it exercises effective control within the territory of formerly under the sovereign control of the Hashemite Kingdom, without the consent of the Jordanian State.

Now, the conditions arise:

◈ The West Bank and Jerusalem were, between 1950 and 1967, Jordanian sovereign territory. It does not matter if the International Community recognizes or not. The Law under the Convention on Rights and Duties of States says:​

​

✦ The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states.​

✦ The jurisdiction of states within the limits of national territory applies to all the inhabitants.​

​

◈ Now, between 1967 and the end of July 1988, the West Bank and Jerusalem was under the Occupation of a foreign Army, namely Israel. But on 31 July 1988, the King of Jordan officially declared a Disengagement from the West Bank.​

​

◈ Once the Hashemite Kingdom abandon the territory, the Israeli Occupation was over the ground transitioned to terra nullius. And then the effective control over the territory by Israel is an occupation over a territory that was — a territory belonging to no-one—at the time of the act alleged to constitute the “occupation.” From the cessation of hostilities in 1967 until the Disengagement in 1988, the status over the territory was peaceful. The transition from Sovereign Jordanian territory to terra nullius was seamless; without any conflict.​

​

◈ At the time of terra nullius, there was no opposing government to the staus and there was no Arab Palestinian Government in place. In fact, the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) had not even Declared Independence.​

​

A question on the table is: If the Abbas announcement that the Oslo Accords are terminated, does that affect the status of the Palestinian Claim to be a State?

FOOTNOTE.......................................
The expression “ terra nullius ” was a legal term of art employed in connection with “occupation” as one of the accepted legal methods of acquiring sovereignty over territory. “Occupation” being legally an original means of peacefully acquiring sovereignty over territory otherwise than by cession or succession, it was a cardinal condition of a valid “occupation” that the territory should be terra nullius— a territory belonging to no-one—at the time of the act alleged to constitute the “occupation” [EXCERPT: Parry & Grant Encyclopaedic Dictionary of International Law pp 595 3d Ed (2009) Oxford University Press]

Most Respectfully,
R

“Occupation” being legally an original means of peacefully acquiring sovereignty over territory otherwise than by cession or succession,

Was it "peaceful" (i.e. uncontested) after the 1967 occupation?
Was it "peaceful" (i.e. uncontested) after the 1948 occupation?

"Peaceful'' Arab wars of 1948 and 1967.

You need to keep up.

Indeed, I knew you would retreat. You, my dear, are a hoot.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: You cannot apply the Motevideo Convention (1933), because the APG did not meet the criteria outline in Article I.

The Avalon Project : Convention on Rights and Duties of States (inter-American); December 26, 1933

The idea that you can negate a peoples' rights by military force is unfounded in international law.

(COMMENT)

See Posting 2053, supra.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

BLUF: You cannot apply the Motevideo Convention (1933), because the APG did not meet the criteria outline in Article I.

What did they not meet that was not prevented by foreign military force? Which is illegal by the way.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Again, you are trying to change the subject. You are trying to make it appear that the case described was an act of Aggression.

“Occupation” being legally an original means of peacefully acquiring sovereignty over territory otherwise than by cession or succession,

Was it "peaceful" (i.e. uncontested) after the 1967 occupation?
Was it "peaceful" (i.e. uncontested) after the 1948 occupation?

(YOUR MISINFORMATION)
1948: The State of Israel was defending its sovereign territory from the Arab League Forces, not the Arab Palestinians.

1967: The Arab Palestinians were not defending the West Bank or Jerusalem. It was the Arab Legion (Jordanian Army), lead by LTG Gllub Pasha.

(COMMENT)

In the case of as described in Posting #2042, the effective control changed in status "1988." In Posting #2038, I even gave a timeline chart so that there would be no mistake.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: You cannot apply the Motevideo Convention (1933), because the APG did not meet the criteria outline in Article I.

What did they not meet that was not prevented by foreign military force? Which is illegal by the way.

(COMMENT)

Now you are just going in circles.

The APG had no sovereign territory and had not government.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

effective control

There you go with that definition of occupation again.

Was it peaceful in Palestine in 1988?

Israel has been whining about so called terrorist attacks since 1948. There has been no peaceful (uncontested) occupation.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: You cannot apply the Motevideo Convention (1933), because the APG did not meet the criteria outline in Article I.

What did they not meet that was not prevented by foreign military force? Which is illegal by the way.

(COMMENT)

Now you are just going in circles.

The APG had no sovereign territory and had not government.

Most Respectfully,
R

The APG had no sovereign territory and had not government.

The APG was a government and their territory was defined by international borders.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Again, you cannot use the boundaries of the Mandate, as the State of Israel established a State that took half that territory.

The APG had no sovereign territory and had not government.

The APG was a government and their territory was defined by international borders.

(COMMENT)

So, Just what territory did the APG have sovereignty over? None!

You know as well as I do, that a government must be functional, at least in some capacity. The former Ottoman Officers cannot just put a gaggle of family and friends together and call it a Government.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Again, you cannot use the boundaries of the Mandate, as the State of Israel established a State that took half that territory.

The APG had no sovereign territory and had not government.

The APG was a government and their territory was defined by international borders.

(COMMENT)

So, Just what territory did the APG have sovereignty over? None!

You know as well as I do, that a government must be functional, at least in some capacity. The former Ottoman Officers cannot just put a gaggle of family and friends together and call it a Government.

Most Respectfully,
R

Again, you cannot use the boundaries of the Mandate,

The Mandate had no sovereignty, had no land, had no borders. The Mandate was not Palestine. It was the Mandate for Palestine. Palestine existed with or without the Mandate.

 

[Hollie]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Again, you cannot use the boundaries of the Mandate, as the State of Israel established a State that took half that territory.

The APG had no sovereign territory and had not government.

The APG was a government and their territory was defined by international borders.

(COMMENT)

So, Just what territory did the APG have sovereignty over? None!

You know as well as I do, that a government must be functional, at least in some capacity. The former Ottoman Officers cannot just put a gaggle of family and friends together and call it a Government.

Most Respectfully,
R

Again, you cannot use the boundaries of the Mandate,

The Mandate had no sovereignty, had no land, had no borders. The Mandate was not Palestine. It was the Mandate for Palestine. Palestine existed with or without the Mandate.

The geographic area called Palestine existed. The area was a portion of lands controlled by the Ottoman Turks.

This is another thread that becomes a vehicle for your endless whining about some magical place you insist existed but which has no historical (hysterical) record.

 

[MartyNYC]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Again, you cannot use the boundaries of the Mandate, as the State of Israel established a State that took half that territory.

The APG had no sovereign territory and had not government.

The APG was a government and their territory was defined by international borders.

(COMMENT)

So, Just what territory did the APG have sovereignty over? None!

You know as well as I do, that a government must be functional, at least in some capacity. The former Ottoman Officers cannot just put a gaggle of family and friends together and call it a Government.

Most Respectfully,
R

Again, you cannot use the boundaries of the Mandate,

The Mandate had no sovereignty, had no land, had no borders. The Mandate was not Palestine. It was the Mandate for Palestine. Palestine existed with or without the Mandate.

The geographic area called Palestine existed. The area was a portion of lands controlled by the Ottoman Turks.

This is another thread that becomes a vehicle for your endless whining about some magical place you insist existed but which has no historical (hysterical) record.

There was no geographic area named palestine in the Ottoman Empire.

 

[MartyNYC]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Again, you cannot use the boundaries of the Mandate, as the State of Israel established a State that took half that territory.

The APG had no sovereign territory and had not government.

The APG was a government and their territory was defined by international borders.

(COMMENT)

So, Just what territory did the APG have sovereignty over? None!

You know as well as I do, that a government must be functional, at least in some capacity. The former Ottoman Officers cannot just put a gaggle of family and friends together and call it a Government.

Most Respectfully,
R

Again, you cannot use the boundaries of the Mandate,

The Mandate had no sovereignty, had no land, had no borders. The Mandate was not Palestine. It was the Mandate for Palestine. Palestine existed with or without the Mandate.

Palestine was Britain’s name for the British Mandate. After 11+ years of trolling, you didn’t know this?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel kills 10,000th Palestinian since 2000, US media largely ignore it

Israeli forces invading Palestinian Territory just killed a 15-year-old unarmed Palestinian boy with a bullet to the head. The 10,000th killed since 2000

israelpalestinenews.org

 

[toastman]

Against Jordanian advice, the APG re-activated what it could of the Holy War Army. It was not a defense force but specifically tasked to liberate the whole of Palestine (an offensive mission objective).

Liberation is offensive? Rocco, you are a hoot.

Who writes this shit for you?

Rocco posts facts backed up by reliable sources. The same cannot be said for you

 

[MartyNYC]

BLUF: You cannot apply the Motevideo Convention (1933), because the APG did not meet the criteria outline in Article I.

What did they not meet that was not prevented by foreign military force? Which is illegal by the way.

Israel kills 10,000th Palestinian since 2000, US media largely ignore it

Israeli forces invading Palestinian Territory just killed a 15-year-old unarmed Palestinian boy with a bullet to the head. The 10,000th killed since 2000

israelpalestinenews.org

Son of Hamas: Hamas wants death
Mosab Hassan Yousef (Son of Hamas Founder) tells the truth about Hamas.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Palestinian Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Again, you cannot use the boundaries of the Mandate, as the State of Israel established a State that took half that territory.

The APG had no sovereign territory and had not government.

The APG was a government and their territory was defined by international borders.

(COMMENT)

So, Just what territory did the APG have sovereignty over? None!

You know as well as I do, that a government must be functional, at least in some capacity. The former Ottoman Officers cannot just put a gaggle of family and friends together and call it a Government.

Most Respectfully,
R

Again, you cannot use the boundaries of the Mandate,

The Mandate had no sovereignty, had no land, had no borders. The Mandate was not Palestine. It was the Mandate for Palestine. Palestine existed with or without the Mandate.

The geographic area called Palestine existed. The area was a portion of lands controlled by the Ottoman Turks.

This is another thread that becomes a vehicle for your endless whining about some magical place you insist existed but which has no historical (hysterical) record.

There was no geographic area named palestine in the Ottoman Empire.

Thank you Mr. Obvious.

 

[USAF 2023]

Israel kills 10,000th Palestinian since 2000, US media largely ignore it

Israeli forces invading Palestinian Territory just killed a 15-year-old unarmed Palestinian boy with a bullet to the head. The 10,000th killed since 2000

israelpalestinenews.org

If the Stats were reverse , Tinmore wouldn’t care. Neither do I.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestinians Congratulate Dr. Rabab Abdulhadi, Recipient of American Association of University Professors Award

Through it all, Dr. Abdulhadi has shown grace and determination, succeeding in having the frivolous lawsuits dismissed as she stood strong for academic freedom and Palestinian rights.

Palestinians Congratulate Dr. Rabab Abdulhadi, Recipient of American Association of University Professors Award

Dr. Abdulhadi, who has faced years of right-wing Israel lobby smear campaigns, was honored for her "courage, persistence, political foresight, and concern for human rights," and her commitment to scholarship "that builds mutual understanding."

bdsmovement.net

 

[P F Tinmore]

Graphic image removed