All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss

[Shusha]

Maybe they should not have plopped their country on top of another people.

Oh, aren't you cute?! Complaining when the indigenous peoples reassert their rights "on top" of the invading, conquering peoples.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Is this a slip-up here?

Resolution 181, following international law, states that all Palestinian citizens who normally live in what becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state.

Those "refugees" are Israeli citizens.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians "rejected" A/RES/181 (II) and went into a state of violence when it was past.

You can't have it both ways. The Arab Palestinians can't reject it and then circle back around and try to activate a minor clause in their defense.

And besides, A/RES/181(II) actually says:

11. Citizenship. All the residents shall become ipso facto citizens of the City of Jerusalem unless they opt for citizenship of the State of which they have been citizens or, if Arabs or Jews, have filed notice of intention to become citizens of the Arab or Jewish State respectively, according to part I, section B, paragraph 9, of this plan.​

Your paraphrasing of the Citizenship Clause has a lot to be desired. I just wonder how many of the Arab Palestinians that (actually) filed a "notice of intention to become citizens" are still alive today?

Most Respectfully,
R

The Arab Palestinians "rejected" A/RES/181 (II) and went into a state of violence when it was past.

Indeed, why was that?

 

[P F Tinmore]

Indeed, the Palestinians should have never gone to Europe to attack the Zionists.

Are you saying that it is OK to send rockets into Israel?

Probably not.

But no doubt, you are.

Civillians here don't lob rockets over walls and fences.

What happened, btw, to all those nice greenhouses the Israelis left behind in Gaza?

Thanks for asking.

Israel shuts off water, dries Gaza greenhouses - WND - WND

I wasn't asking you.

Via Al Jazeera:

updated 9/13/2005 10:25:07 PM

NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip — Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.

American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority. Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn, who brokered the deal, put up $500,000 of his own cash.

Palestinian police stood by helplessly Tuesday as looters carted off materials from greenhouses in several settlements, and commanders complained they did not have enough manpower to protect the prized assets. In some instances, there was no security and in others, police even joined the looters, witnesses said.

“We need at least another 70 soldiers. This is just a joke,” said Taysir Haddad, one of 22 security guards assigned to Neve Dekalim, formerly the largest Jewish settlement in Gaza. “We’ve tried to stop as many people as we can, but they’re like locusts.”

The failure of the security forces to prevent scavenging and looting in the settlements after Israel’s troop pullout Monday raised new concerns about Gaza’s future.

Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.

The Palestinians needed that stuff to rebuild their greenhouses that Israel bulldozed.

The fool has spoken again.

We are talking about the Greenhouses which Israel left in Gaza in the part where the Jews lived.
They were left intact for the Arabs to use and be able to accomplish some economic success with it.

Instead, the Arabs destroyed them all.

Now, the fool says that the Greenhouses belonged to the Arabs and that the Israeli bulldozed them.

Now, the fool says that the Greenhouses belonged to the Arabs and that the Israeli bulldozed them.

I didn't say that.

 

[Hollie]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Is this a slip-up here?

Resolution 181, following international law, states that all Palestinian citizens who normally live in what becomes the Jewish state will be citizens of that state.

Those "refugees" are Israeli citizens.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinians "rejected" A/RES/181 (II) and went into a state of violence when it was past.

You can't have it both ways. The Arab Palestinians can't reject it and then circle back around and try to activate a minor clause in their defense.

And besides, A/RES/181(II) actually says:

11. Citizenship. All the residents shall become ipso facto citizens of the City of Jerusalem unless they opt for citizenship of the State of which they have been citizens or, if Arabs or Jews, have filed notice of intention to become citizens of the Arab or Jewish State respectively, according to part I, section B, paragraph 9, of this plan.​

Your paraphrasing of the Citizenship Clause has a lot to be desired. I just wonder how many of the Arab Palestinians that (actually) filed a "notice of intention to become citizens" are still alive today?

Most Respectfully,
R

The Arab Palestinians "rejected" A/RES/181 (II) and went into a state of violence when it was past.

Indeed, why was that?

Indeed, read your Korans for the answer.

 

[theliq]

Gee...I wonder why settlers stone Palestinian children on their way to school...target practice for vermin control?

"They are all enemy combatants, and their
shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."

Why don't you post the entire quote, for context, rather than attempting to make equivalent things which are not equivalent. It looks an awful lot like projection to me.

Here's the whole quote:

"The Palestinian people has declared war on us, and we must respond with war. Not an operation, not a slow-moving one, not low-intensity, not controlled escalation, no destruction of terror infrastructure, no targeted killings. Enough with the oblique references. This is a war. Words have meanings. This is a war. It is not a war against terror, and not a war against extremists, and not even a war against the Palestinian Authority. These too are forms of avoiding reality. This is a war between two people. Who is the enemy? The Palestinian people. Why? Ask them, they started.

I don’t know why it’s so hard for us to define reality with the simple words that language puts at our disposal. Why do we have to make up a new name for the war every other week, just to avoid calling it by its name. What’s so horrifying about understanding that the entire Palestinian people is the enemy? Every war is between two peoples, and in every war the people who started the war, that whole people, is the enemy. A declaration of war is not a war crime. Responding with war certainly is not. Nor is the use of the word “war”, nor a clear definition who the enemy is. Au contraire: the morality of war (yes, there is such a thing) is founded on the assumption that there are wars in this world, and that war is not the normal state of things, and that in wars the enemy is usually an entire people, including its elderly and its women, its cities and its villages, its property and its infrastructure.

And the morality of war knows that it is not possible to refrain from hurting enemy civilians. It does not condemn the British air force, which bombed and totally destroyed the German city of Dresden, or the US planes that destroyed the cities of Poland and wrecked half of Budapest, places whose wretched residents had never done a thing to America, but which had to be destroyed in order to win the war against evil. The morals of war do not require that Russia be brought to trial, though it bombs and destroys towns and neighborhoods in Chechnya. It does not denounce the UN Peacekeeping Forces for killing hundreds of civilians in Angola, nor the NATO forces who bombed Milosevic’s Belgrade, a city with a million civilians, elderly, babies, women, and children. The morals of war accept as correct in principle, not only politically, what America has done in Afghanistan, including the massive bombing of populated places, including the creation of a refugee stream of hundreds of thousands of people who escaped the horrors of war, for thousands of whom there is no home to return to.

And in our war this is sevenfold more correct, because the enemy soldiers hide out among the population, and it is only through its support that they can fight. Behind every terrorist stand dozens of men and women, without whom he could not engage in terrorism. Actors in the war are those who incite in mosques, who write the murderous curricula for schools, who give shelter, who provide vehicles, and all those who honor and give them their moral support. They are all enemy combatants, and their blood shall be on all their heads. Now this also includes the mothers of the martyrs, who send them to hell with flowers and kisses. They should follow their sons, nothing would be more just. They should go, as should the physical homes in which they raised the snakes. Otherwise, more little snakes will be raised there."

While the use of the term "snakes" is abhorrent here, the concept that a war between peoples can only be conducted with the support of those peoples is a valid one. Who is "they" in your quote? The ACTORS who contribute to the war through means other than physical weapons: the imams who incite, the educators who teach, the mothers who raise martyrs, the populace who shelter and celebrate, the government which pays.

This is in NO WAY a call for "vermin control" or genocide. Nor does it reject the status of "civilian". Nor does it claim that people have no right to life. It is the recognition that there is more to war than those who hold the stones in slings or load bullets into guns and that the responsibility lies with ALL the actors. It says (eloquently until the "snakes" part) that the responsibility rests with those who bring war and that the SOLUTION to war is not to stop the guns, its to stop the support.



rylah Is there a connotation to the Hebrew word for "snake" which may be not understood by English speakers?

It absolutely claims their families are not civilians and have no rights to life. It labels the entire Palestinian people as the enemy.

And that is what the facts on the ground. It doesn't matter to Israel who it kills. Men, women, old people, children, all seem to be "legitimate" targets.

Palestine has no army. They are all civilians. The only time a civilian can be classified as a militant is when he is actively engaged in armed conflict. The vast majority of Palestinians killed are unarmed.

I disagree with that assessment...I do think most of the time Israel IS exceedingly careful about targets and minimizing collateral damage - much more so I might add than Saudi Arabia in Yemen, or Bashee and Russia in Syria to give examples.

While civilians DO at times get targeted, and legitimate journalists...I think too often investigations tend to go easy on the killers - targeting civilians is standard practice unless those civilians are actively breeching security (ie border control) and no other measures are working. On the other hand, the Palestinian militants DO have a verifiable and undeniable record of TARGETING civilians - you really can't ignore that.

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ Coyote, et al,

With any large culture or segment of people, there are subsets that one or more show definite separate and distinct attributes and characteristics. The Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank fall into this category with malevolent and unkindly attributes and definite negative characteristics.

Why do settlers stone Palestinian kids trying to go to school?

(COMMENT)

I do not think that there is any question, that the vast majority for all Israelis (Jewish or otherwise) find the behavior of these Jewish "Settlers" of the West Bank to be abhorrent and unacceptable; → maybe even a bit ashamed by it. And this shame may be the reason that the Israelis don't talk about them. They want to disassociate themselves for this poorly disciplined aspect of their society.

Most Respectfully,
R

I absolutely agree and that is also why I think it is important NOT to broadbrush an entire people by the actions of some. I think by and large Israel is far more diverse than is recognized outside of Israel and but the settler population represents a very powerful political voice and that is problematic for long term resolutions.

NO ONE on these threads, on the Israeli Team has "broad brushed" the entire Arab population living in Gaza and in Judea and Samaria.
Your accusations have NO merit at all.

And the Jewish settlers are only defending their rights to BE in Judea and Samaria were ALL Jews were expelled from in 1948.

Peace is the long term solution. But that is something neither Hamas nor the PA/PLO/Fatah want. Never did and never will.

As long as they follow in Mohammad's example of Waiting, and Waiting, until they get what they want, as he did, there will not be Peace with those Arab leaders. They will not allow it.

Many Arabs in those areas want peace with Israel. But they are few and powerless.

Hamas is also operating in Judea and Samaria and in Israel as well.

What peace and resolution can come from their insistence in teaching all Arabs that the Jews stole Muslim land and that Jews have no right to live?

None.

First, that ideology needs to go. Short of that, the Arabs need to be definitely defeated and their ability to terrorize and kill at will put to an end.
Iran, Qatar, the EU and others are also a problem because they all feed the Arab leaders with money for more ways to attack Israel and the Jews who live there and in area C.

Come up with some ideas on how to put an end to the ideology, the Charters which call for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews, and the endless money and weapons going to Hamas and other terrorists and we will start getting somewhere, even if the Arabs (Arab League) will never agree to it.

Maybe not Broad Brushed but NARROW BRUSHED WITH YOUR NARROW MINDEDNESS...You are a Human Disgrace

 

[P F Tinmore]

NO ONE on these threads, on the Israeli Team has "broad brushed" the entire Arab population living in Gaza and in Judea and Samaria.
Your accusations have NO merit at all.

Good lord - you absolutely do. I see it all the time.

And the Jewish settlers are only defending their rights to BE in Judea and Samaria were ALL Jews were expelled from in 1948.

Oh. I see. Then I guess we can apply the same logic to Palestinian violence..."they are only defending their rights"? You have a lot in common with Tinmoore on this.

Peace is the long term solution. But that is something neither Hamas nor the PA/PLO/Fatah want. Never did and never will.

As long as they follow in Mohammad's example of Waiting, and Waiting, until they get what they want, as he did, there will not be Peace with those Arab leaders. They will not allow it.

Many Arabs in those areas want peace with Israel. But they are few and powerless.

Hamas is also operating in Judea and Samaria and in Israel as well.

What peace and resolution can come from their insistence in teaching all Arabs that the Jews stole Muslim land and that Jews have no right to live?

And what do Jews learn...about Palestinians? Both sides have significant problems here...Are Palestinian Textbooks Actually Any Worse Than Israeli Textbooks?

None.

First, that ideology needs to go. Short of that, the Arabs need to be definitely defeated and their ability to terrorize and kill at will put to an end.
Iran, Qatar, the EU and others are also a problem because they all feed the Arab leaders with money for more ways to attack Israel and the Jews who live there and in area C.

Come up with some ideas on how to put an end to the ideology, the Charters which call for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews, and the endless money and weapons going to Hamas and other terrorists and we will start getting somewhere, even if the Arabs (Arab League) will never agree to it.

Israel and the Arab states need to sit down and work out solutions. Then bring in the Palestinians. There is no defined leadership to work with. Ideology? Well here you are broadbrushing.

Where have I Broadbrushed it, when I constantly give examples of Arabs who do live and peace with Jews and want to live in peace with Israel, all the Arabs who get to come to work in Israel, or study in Israel, or get medical help in Israel?

So, you are denying that because all Jews were expelled from their homes in 1948 from that area, that the Jews who now live there would be a bit, if not a lot apprehensive with all the violence coming their way and the endless failures at making the PA come to even discuss a Peace Treaty?
They are supposed to just sit there and take it, I guess.

I really do not know of many First Nation tribes in the Americas, who simply stood by and allowed themselves to be attacked and their lands just taken by the Europeans whether they were doing it by government consent or by their own will, do you?

The Palestinians not only THINK that they have the right to attack Jews, it is written in the PLO charter that they should do so. As I said before, not all Arabs want to attack Jews, many want a normal life, a decent job and salary and that is why there are thousands of them working not only in Israel but in the villages in Judea and Samaria, DESPITE Habbas having attempted to forbid them from doing so a few times. Why would he do that?

And do show me exactly in which Israeli textbooks Jews are being taught that the Arabs are the enemy and inciting them to kill the Arabs anywhere they find them?

Are you aware that many Arab schools in Israel are now opting for the Israeli curriculum which does not teach their children that the Jews are evil and to go out and kill them?

And I will say this ONE MORE TIME.

You are reading mostly, if not ONLY anti Israel sources. I can tell it. Most of us, if not all of us can tell that that is where you get all of your information and all of your links where nothing but bad things about Israeli Jews and policies are coming from. The one about the textbooks is a clear example of it.


When you start reading both sources and then making an actual conclusion from both, and not just one source, you may start to come to see the issues as they really have been and as they really are, and WHY there is no hope for a Peace Treaty with the PA or Hamas with their insistence in following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission.

They want, and will only accept Submission from the Jewish people, exactly as they had it for 1300 years before Israel came to be in 1948.

I read and use mainstream sources most of the time - Israeli newspapers, Haaretz, Times etc. What sources do you use? I think you have your own anti-Palestinian bias here and frankly it's pretty much clear in your statement:

"...following Mohammad's ideology called Islam = Submission" a frequently used anti-muslim canard.

Submission to God. Not unlike Christianity - submission to God and God will take care of you.

The real issue is not which sources either one of us reads.

The real issue is which sources are telling the truth and can either one of us distinguish the truth from the rest.

You may say from your sources that Palestine has no Army.

What is this?

https://www.idf.il/en/minisites/facts-and-figures/hamas/hamas-military-wing/

What do all of these photos portray?

View attachment 235366
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Isn't Gaza, Palestine? Are they not wearing uniforms? Is it not a military ?

Here is Fatah under Abbas:

View attachment 235374
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View attachment 235380

Are they not in uniform? Is it not a military?

I think the truth is not as clear as you want to believe. There are plenty of propoganda sources for both sides trying to spin every situation and Israel is no different than any other nation in conflict in that regard.

Tell me. What has the IDF investigation of Murtaja's murder revealed?

One of the most consistent things about a propaganda site is name calling. Name calling drops their credibility down a few notches.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are asking the Israelis to put their sovereignty and territorial integrity at risk.

• Fundamentally, positive rights require others to provide you with either a good or service.

The Palestinians do not ask for others to provide anything.

(COMMENT)

The tension and mistrust between the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) and the Israelis, that has accumulated over the decades of violence have tainted and contaminated any attempt at a fair and just negotiation or settlement of disputes.

There is (absolutely) no reasonable expectation that the "Right of Return" (or anything remotely like it) could happen happen for several generations. Until the semior members of government come from a family that has no previous experience with the Arab-Israeli Conflict. And the parents of the prodigy of that generation haven't even been born yet.

Most Respectfully,
R

The "right of return" for Arabs into Israel has been done already by those Israel decided to allow back. Some have turned to murdering Jews in Israel.

The other "right of return" they refer to, being that of 5 Million Arabs, mostly descendants of those who fought the Jews during the Independence war and left before it started or were expelled afterwards, will never happen.

There are about 20,000 living Arabs who actually fled or were expelled from Israel before, during or after the war.

NONE will be allowed to return.

Many who fled were not allowed back...were not violent, and had their land essentially confiscated through absentee landowner laws.

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

Well, actually, I was not talking about "Zionists."

There is a lot of SCUM that has invaded Palestine,All of Whom have NO RIGHT and NO PAST WITH THIS LAND...but the ZIONISTS COULDN'T GIVE A SHIT BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL ALIENS,

(COMMENT)

❖ Not all Israelis are Jews.
❖ Not all Jews are Zionists.
❖ Not all Zionists are Settlers.​

Each nation, state and territorial government has its own immigration laws and its own understanding as to what it means to be an "illegal alien."

There is no question about the following facts.

❖ The Allied Powers assumed the Title and Rights to the territory that was formerly under the Mandate.
❖ The Allied Powers agree that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, they would establish a Jewish national Home in the territory.
❖ The Allied Powers assume that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, to facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage immigration to "all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home."​

Where is the "illegal immigration" criteria?

Zionists are a Terrorist Organization and Racist

(COMMENT)

What lawful entity actually stipulates that?

View attachment 235335
​

Zionism is the political movement for national liberation. This movement includes the belief that:

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.​

These are not "terrorist view" but the views held currently under international law and expressed by the Arab Palestinian People.

IF it is the case that the "Zionists are a Terrorist Organization" → THEN it must be the case the Arab Palestinian are equally guilty.

On the matter of "racism," the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) derive this belief from A/RES/3379 (XXX) 10 November 1975 which Determines that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination. What the HoAP most often forget to disclose (intentionally) is that in A/RES/46/86 16 December 1991 the UN specifically corrected the error and decided to "revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975." The HoAP do this to perpetuate the myths.

with it...Can anyone explain to me what is in the head of a Zionist other than self Loathing and Hate ????? , but they believe somehow their Cult is respectable...And I agree everyone should Hate Zionism it is a Cult of Terror.

(COMMENT)

A "cult," by definition, is dealing with a religious belief directed towards a very specific idea. Zionism is NOT a religious belief structure; but a national liberation movement.

View attachment 235339
​

As you will note, Article 2, Section 1, The Constitution of the WZO updated November 2017, specifically speaks to the aims of Zionism secured under public law.

Most Respectfully,
R

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.

They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.

I don't see the Palestinians living in their homeland.

There are Arab Israeli (Palestinian) citizens in Israel, there are Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza.

Is all set to right yet? No. But you can't say there are none living there.

OK, but the vast majority of Palestinians no longer live on their own land.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Does it matter? The why is merely justification for noncompliance.

The Arab Palestinians "rejected" A/RES/181 (II) and went into a state of violence when it was past.

Indeed, why was that?

(COMMENT)

This is not an isolated event. Rejection has been the Arab policy since before 1923, when the Arab Higher Committee rejected the participation in the establishment of a framework for a set of self-governing institutions. This carried through the UNSCOP Recommendations outlined in A/RES/181 (II) in 1947, and was reaffirmed by the Arab League in the THREE No's of The Khartoum Resolution; September 1, 1967. This position has carried through to this day with excuse, after excuse, after excuse in the refusal of the Arab Palestinians to at in good faith at peace negotiations.

The WHY! Because they are Hostile Arab Palestinians that have pledged to continue the "armed struggle" as the preferred option for dispute resolution.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

WOW, Just WOW!

You are a Human Disgrace

(QUESTION)

Is this a character attack, or what? Why not address the content rather than the contributor?

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Sixties Fan]

Probably not.

But no doubt, you are.

Civillians here don't lob rockets over walls and fences.

What happened, btw, to all those nice greenhouses the Israelis left behind in Gaza?

Thanks for asking.

Israel shuts off water, dries Gaza greenhouses - WND - WND

I wasn't asking you.

Via Al Jazeera:

updated 9/13/2005 10:25:07 PM

NEVE DEKALIM, Gaza Strip — Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.

American Jewish donors had bought more than 3,000 greenhouses from Israeli settlers in Gaza for $14 million last month and transferred them to the Palestinian Authority. Former World Bank President James Wolfensohn, who brokered the deal, put up $500,000 of his own cash.

Palestinian police stood by helplessly Tuesday as looters carted off materials from greenhouses in several settlements, and commanders complained they did not have enough manpower to protect the prized assets. In some instances, there was no security and in others, police even joined the looters, witnesses said.

“We need at least another 70 soldiers. This is just a joke,” said Taysir Haddad, one of 22 security guards assigned to Neve Dekalim, formerly the largest Jewish settlement in Gaza. “We’ve tried to stop as many people as we can, but they’re like locusts.”

The failure of the security forces to prevent scavenging and looting in the settlements after Israel’s troop pullout Monday raised new concerns about Gaza’s future.

Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip.

The Palestinians needed that stuff to rebuild their greenhouses that Israel bulldozed.

The fool has spoken again.

We are talking about the Greenhouses which Israel left in Gaza in the part where the Jews lived.
They were left intact for the Arabs to use and be able to accomplish some economic success with it.

Instead, the Arabs destroyed them all.

Now, the fool says that the Greenhouses belonged to the Arabs and that the Israeli bulldozed them.

Now, the fool says that the Greenhouses belonged to the Arabs and that the Israeli bulldozed them.

I didn't say that.

Then, if the Greenhouses did not belong to the Arabs, and belonged to the Jews, what problem do you have with them being bulldozed or not?

Hee, hee, hee....

 

[Sixties Fan]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

WOW, Just WOW!

You are a Human Disgrace

(QUESTION)

Is this a character attack, or what? Why not address the content rather than the contributor?

Most Respectfully,
R

He is devoid of any content....always

 

[theliq]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Does it matter? The why is merely justification for noncompliance.

The Arab Palestinians "rejected" A/RES/181 (II) and went into a state of violence when it was past.

Indeed, why was that?

(COMMENT)

This is not an isolated event. Rejection has been the Arab policy since before 1923, when the Arab Higher Committee rejected the participation in the establishment of a framework for a set of self-governing institutions. This carried through the UNSCOP Recommendations outlined in A/RES/181 (II) in 1947, and was reaffirmed by the Arab League in the THREE No's of The Khartoum Resolution; September 1, 1967. This position has carried through to this day with excuse, after excuse, after excuse in the refusal of the Arab Palestinians to at in good faith at peace negotiations.

The WHY! Because they are Hostile Arab Palestinians that have pledged to continue the "armed struggle" as the preferred option for dispute resolution.

Most Respectfully,
R

So,let's take a step forward and imagine the Palestinians taking over like the Zionists did

What would you expect the Zioscum to do,bend over and take it like you have expected the Palestinians to do

 

[Sixties Fan]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are asking the Israelis to put their sovereignty and territorial integrity at risk.

• Fundamentally, positive rights require others to provide you with either a good or service.

The Palestinians do not ask for others to provide anything.

(COMMENT)

The tension and mistrust between the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) and the Israelis, that has accumulated over the decades of violence have tainted and contaminated any attempt at a fair and just negotiation or settlement of disputes.

There is (absolutely) no reasonable expectation that the "Right of Return" (or anything remotely like it) could happen happen for several generations. Until the semior members of government come from a family that has no previous experience with the Arab-Israeli Conflict. And the parents of the prodigy of that generation haven't even been born yet.

Most Respectfully,
R

The "right of return" for Arabs into Israel has been done already by those Israel decided to allow back. Some have turned to murdering Jews in Israel.

The other "right of return" they refer to, being that of 5 Million Arabs, mostly descendants of those who fought the Jews during the Independence war and left before it started or were expelled afterwards, will never happen.

There are about 20,000 living Arabs who actually fled or were expelled from Israel before, during or after the war.

NONE will be allowed to return.

Many who fled were not allowed back...were not violent, and had their land essentially confiscated through absentee landowner laws.

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

Well, actually, I was not talking about "Zionists."

(COMMENT)

❖ Not all Israelis are Jews.
❖ Not all Jews are Zionists.
❖ Not all Zionists are Settlers.​

Each nation, state and territorial government has its own immigration laws and its own understanding as to what it means to be an "illegal alien."

There is no question about the following facts.

❖ The Allied Powers assumed the Title and Rights to the territory that was formerly under the Mandate.
❖ The Allied Powers agree that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, they would establish a Jewish national Home in the territory.
❖ The Allied Powers assume that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, to facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage immigration to "all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home."​

Where is the "illegal immigration" criteria?

(COMMENT)

What lawful entity actually stipulates that?

View attachment 235335
​

Zionism is the political movement for national liberation. This movement includes the belief that:

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.​

These are not "terrorist view" but the views held currently under international law and expressed by the Arab Palestinian People.

IF it is the case that the "Zionists are a Terrorist Organization" → THEN it must be the case the Arab Palestinian are equally guilty.

On the matter of "racism," the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) derive this belief from A/RES/3379 (XXX) 10 November 1975 which Determines that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination. What the HoAP most often forget to disclose (intentionally) is that in A/RES/46/86 16 December 1991 the UN specifically corrected the error and decided to "revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975." The HoAP do this to perpetuate the myths.

(COMMENT)

A "cult," by definition, is dealing with a religious belief directed towards a very specific idea. Zionism is NOT a religious belief structure; but a national liberation movement.

View attachment 235339
​

As you will note, Article 2, Section 1, The Constitution of the WZO updated November 2017, specifically speaks to the aims of Zionism secured under public law.

Most Respectfully,
R

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.

They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.

I don't see the Palestinians living in their homeland.

There are Arab Israeli (Palestinian) citizens in Israel, there are Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza.

Is all set to right yet? No. But you can't say there are none living there.

OK, but the vast majority of Palestinians no longer live on their own land.

Their land is called the Arabian Peninsula. They are welcome to it.

And Palestinians are living on 80% of the Mandate for Palestine which was to become a Jewish State because IT IS the ancient Jewish homeland.

And about 20% of the population in Israel is Arab.

So, again......you lie.

Arabs/ Palestinians, are living in ALL the 100% of the ancient Jewish homeland.

 

[Hollie]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are asking the Israelis to put their sovereignty and territorial integrity at risk.

• Fundamentally, positive rights require others to provide you with either a good or service.

The Palestinians do not ask for others to provide anything.

(COMMENT)

The tension and mistrust between the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) and the Israelis, that has accumulated over the decades of violence have tainted and contaminated any attempt at a fair and just negotiation or settlement of disputes.

There is (absolutely) no reasonable expectation that the "Right of Return" (or anything remotely like it) could happen happen for several generations. Until the semior members of government come from a family that has no previous experience with the Arab-Israeli Conflict. And the parents of the prodigy of that generation haven't even been born yet.

Most Respectfully,
R

The "right of return" for Arabs into Israel has been done already by those Israel decided to allow back. Some have turned to murdering Jews in Israel.

The other "right of return" they refer to, being that of 5 Million Arabs, mostly descendants of those who fought the Jews during the Independence war and left before it started or were expelled afterwards, will never happen.

There are about 20,000 living Arabs who actually fled or were expelled from Israel before, during or after the war.

NONE will be allowed to return.

Many who fled were not allowed back...were not violent, and had their land essentially confiscated through absentee landowner laws.

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

Well, actually, I was not talking about "Zionists."

(COMMENT)

❖ Not all Israelis are Jews.
❖ Not all Jews are Zionists.
❖ Not all Zionists are Settlers.​

Each nation, state and territorial government has its own immigration laws and its own understanding as to what it means to be an "illegal alien."

There is no question about the following facts.

❖ The Allied Powers assumed the Title and Rights to the territory that was formerly under the Mandate.
❖ The Allied Powers agree that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, they would establish a Jewish national Home in the territory.
❖ The Allied Powers assume that under the Ttile and Rights the assumed by Treaty Law, to facilitate Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage immigration to "all Jews who are willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish National Home."​

Where is the "illegal immigration" criteria?

(COMMENT)

What lawful entity actually stipulates that?

View attachment 235335
​

Zionism is the political movement for national liberation. This movement includes the belief that:

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.​

These are not "terrorist view" but the views held currently under international law and expressed by the Arab Palestinian People.

IF it is the case that the "Zionists are a Terrorist Organization" → THEN it must be the case the Arab Palestinian are equally guilty.

On the matter of "racism," the Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) derive this belief from A/RES/3379 (XXX) 10 November 1975 which Determines that zionism is a form of racism and racial discrimination. What the HoAP most often forget to disclose (intentionally) is that in A/RES/46/86 16 December 1991 the UN specifically corrected the error and decided to "revoke the determination contained in its resolution 3379 (XXX) of 10 November 1975." The HoAP do this to perpetuate the myths.

(COMMENT)

A "cult," by definition, is dealing with a religious belief directed towards a very specific idea. Zionism is NOT a religious belief structure; but a national liberation movement.

View attachment 235339
​

As you will note, Article 2, Section 1, The Constitution of the WZO updated November 2017, specifically speaks to the aims of Zionism secured under public law.

Most Respectfully,
R

◈ The Jewish people have the right to self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have the right to realize their self-determination.
◈ The Jewish people have a right to become a nation like any other nation.

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.

They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.

I don't see the Palestinians living in their homeland.

There are Arab Israeli (Palestinian) citizens in Israel, there are Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza.

Is all set to right yet? No. But you can't say there are none living there.

OK, but the vast majority of Palestinians no longer live on their own land.

What you mean to write is that Arabs-Moslems no longer live on lands that were once under the control of the Ottoman Empire.

You can spend your every waking moment agonizing about the fact of the former Ottoman sanjak and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. However, the fact remains that the Ottoman Empire released all rights and title to the area.

You’re left to slam away at your keyboard as your participation in the gee-had.

 

[theliq]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

WOW, Just WOW!

You are a Human Disgrace

(QUESTION)

Is this a character attack, or what? Why not address the content rather than the contributor?

Most Respectfully,
R

He is devoid of any content....always

How can I when your imagined content...is regurgitated Bullshit moreover Rocco could not comprehend my prose...which was to the collective,not the individual...NOW THIS IS CONTENT,digest it and learn from it...but collectively YAAHD

 

[theliq]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

You are asking the Israelis to put their sovereignty and territorial integrity at risk.

The Palestinians do not ask for others to provide anything.

(COMMENT)

The tension and mistrust between the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) and the Israelis, that has accumulated over the decades of violence have tainted and contaminated any attempt at a fair and just negotiation or settlement of disputes.

There is (absolutely) no reasonable expectation that the "Right of Return" (or anything remotely like it) could happen happen for several generations. Until the semior members of government come from a family that has no previous experience with the Arab-Israeli Conflict. And the parents of the prodigy of that generation haven't even been born yet.

Most Respectfully,
R

The "right of return" for Arabs into Israel has been done already by those Israel decided to allow back. Some have turned to murdering Jews in Israel.

The other "right of return" they refer to, being that of 5 Million Arabs, mostly descendants of those who fought the Jews during the Independence war and left before it started or were expelled afterwards, will never happen.

There are about 20,000 living Arabs who actually fled or were expelled from Israel before, during or after the war.

NONE will be allowed to return.

Many who fled were not allowed back...were not violent, and had their land essentially confiscated through absentee landowner laws.

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.

They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.

I don't see the Palestinians living in their homeland.

There are Arab Israeli (Palestinian) citizens in Israel, there are Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza.

Is all set to right yet? No. But you can't say there are none living there.

OK, but the vast majority of Palestinians no longer live on their own land.

Their land is called the Arabian Peninsula. They are welcome to it.

And Palestinians are living on 80% of the Mandate for Palestine which was to become a Jewish State because IT IS the ancient Jewish homeland.

And about 20% of the population in Israel is Arab.

So, again......you lie.

Arabs/ Palestinians, are living in ALL the 100% of the ancient Jewish homeland.

YET AGAIN MORE ZIOSCUM MISINFORMATION AND BULLSHIT...when a Zionist opens their mouths,cometh a LIE

 

[P F Tinmore]

The "right of return" for Arabs into Israel has been done already by those Israel decided to allow back. Some have turned to murdering Jews in Israel.

The other "right of return" they refer to, being that of 5 Million Arabs, mostly descendants of those who fought the Jews during the Independence war and left before it started or were expelled afterwards, will never happen.

There are about 20,000 living Arabs who actually fled or were expelled from Israel before, during or after the war.

NONE will be allowed to return.

Many who fled were not allowed back...were not violent, and had their land essentially confiscated through absentee landowner laws.

I don't see the Palestinians living in their homeland.

There are Arab Israeli (Palestinian) citizens in Israel, there are Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza.

Is all set to right yet? No. But you can't say there are none living there.

All the Jews who have been expelled from Gaza, Hebron, Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria from 1920 to 1948 have had all of their homes, lands, businesses, schools, belongings confiscated by the Arab leaders and Arab population.

Israel had the policy of uniting families. Those were the Arabs who were allowed to return.

"
There are Arab Israeli (Palestinian) citizens in Israel, there are Palestinians in West Bank and Gaza."

Of course there are.

"Is all set to right yet? No. But you can't say there are none living there."

Does not make sense. What do you mean?
Are you saying that Israel says that there were no Arabs living in Israel before 1948? Which source would say that?

Is all set to right? For the Arabs who were forced to flee by their Leaders or fought and were expelled? Yes.

Why Yes. Because all of the Jews expelled from Gaza to Hebron, to Jerusalem to Judea and Samaria are yet to see their lands and belongings and being allowed to return to their former lands and homes.

And let me not forget TranJordan, as since 1925, that is the first time Jews have not been allowed to reside in that part of their ancient homeland.

The right of return isn't multi generational - imo. Whether it is Jews or Arabs. On the other hand it is well documented that many Palestinians were not allowed to return (and not because of violent tendancies) and that confiscating their property was part of Israel's aim in growing their state. Let's not pretend otherwise, that was part of the purpose of those laws.

In terms of what I said "is all set to right yet" - what I meant was the conflict is ongoing, the Palestinians still do not have a state, autonomy, leadership or a voice that can speak for all. The Occupied/Disputed territories are not settled. But Palestinians DO live there...even if, in Area C they are squeezed into tiny discontinous areas.

Jews do not ask for a right of return. Muslims do. In order to overrun Israel and turn the State a Jewish minority.

There would have been no way of Israel "growing their State" by not allowing ALL of the Arabs back. Grow into what as there was no room to grow in what became Israel between 1948 and 1967 before that last war was fought?

The Arab Palestinians do not have a State because the Arab League demands that that there will be no State while Israel exists.

They do have a government in Gaza and the P. A. . Those leaders teach and do whatever they want to do, keep money for themselves, continue to incite against Israel.
According to yourself they do not have leadership? Really.

Hamas, the PLO, Fatah, Abbas, none of them are a leadership.
They live in a vacuum of lack of leadership.

They do not have a leadership which speaks for all because each group wants final power for themselves.
Hamas wants nothing to do with Fatah and the PLO.
They HAVE Gaza and they mean to keep it.

In Area C the Arabs live where they built, the Jews live where they built. And the Arabs were not expelled as the Arabs expelled the Jews in 1948.
From 1948 until 1967, no Jews in ALL of Judea and Samaria and the previously known Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, which is now Arab.

Area C needs to remain in Israeli hands. All Arabs remain. They choose if they want to become citizens or only residents of Israel, as it is will all Arabs living in Israel.

No Jews in Gaza.
No Jews in TransJordan
No in Jews in Area A
No Jews in Area B

I think it says it all.

Uh no. Jews do ask for the right of return. They claim their right to return to their ancestral homeland.

Even though few if any have ancestors from their so called homeland.

 

[theliq]

RE: All The News Anti-Israel Posters Will Not Read Or Discuss
⁜→ theliq, et al,

WOW, Just WOW!

You are a Human Disgrace

(QUESTION)

Is this a character attack, or what? Why not address the content rather than the contributor?

Most Respectfully,
R

because the content is blurred and only the contributor can now be seen as a RABID ZIONIST,CLEARLY NOW,so Rocco,you can step down from your polluted drenched SOAP BOX

 

[P F Tinmore]

And, according to you, the Palestinians do not have rights.

The Palestinian people's have those same exact rights.

They just don't have the right to murder civilians. No one has that right.

Israel murders civilians all the time yet Palestinian resistance is expected to be pristine. If the international community would enforce international law, that problem would be solved.

No they are not expected to be pristine. Just, for a start - stop targeting civilians. Explain please how you can justify creeping into a house at night and murdering every inhabitent right down to the infant? How is that NOT deliberately targeting civilians? How is that in any remote way self defense?

Israel bombs the crap out of thousands of civilians and when the Palestinians kick up a little sand with a bottle rocket it's OMG they are targeting civilians.

Double standards much?

BTW, those rockets land in villages that the Palestinians were expelled from in 1948.

Those rockets land anyplace they can reach.

Do Israeli Jews have the right to bomb the places now held by Palestinians where they were expelled during the initial conflicts?

So, since the Palestinians cannot mooch the high tech weapons that Israel has, they are expected to just sit on their hands?

Interesting questions. Are the Jews moving into the West Bank the same Jews that were expelled?

 

[P F Tinmore]

It has been axiomatic for the Palestinian narrative that as a result of the first Arab-Israeli war in 1948, the Palestinian Arab refugees were forcibly expelled by Israeli forces from their towns and villages. This has been the official line appearing in Palestinian school textbooks and molding the attitudes of generations of young people.

For example those textbooks assert:

Palestine’s war ended with a catastrophe that is unprecedented in history, when Zionist gangs stole Palestine and expelled its people from their cities, their villages, their lands, and their houses and established the State of Israel.

That’s from an Arabic language textbook in 2006, grade 12.

Here’s another quote:

Let us think and discuss: the impact of the Palestinians’ forced emigration at the Zionists’ hands in 1948.

That’s from a textbook of geography studies, grade 11, written just recently in 2017.

A third quote:

“The Palestinian refugee camps were formed because of the ethnic cleansing perpetrated by the Zionist gangs.

That’s from a mathematics text, grade 11, in 2017.

Despite the fact that the 1948 war was caused by the invasion by five Arab armies into the nascent State of Israel, the emerging Palestinian narrative put the blame squarely upon the Israeli side. The idea that the Palestinian “exodus” was caused by the orders of the Palestinian Arab leaders or was connected to the invasion by Arab armies has been rejected out of hand by prominent writers like Edward Said in his book The Question of Palestine.

That is why the recent words of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, at the PLO Consultative Council on December 9, 2018, are so significant.

Looking back historically, Abbas declared:

Everyone started to speak in our name, in our absence. Therefore we could do nothing. And you recall, if you remember, that in 1948, when the “Nakba,” or catastrophe, took place, we weren’t a party to it. We were taken out, and we were told, after a week we will return you.

Elsewhere he was even more explicit on this point. Back in March 1976 in the Palestinian publication Falastin El-Thawra that came out in Beirut, he said that the Arab armies forced the Palestinians to emigrate and to leave their homeland.

(full article online)

Mahmoud Abbas Contradicts the Palestinian Narrative on Refugees

Despite the fact that the 1948 war was caused by the invasion by five Arab armies into the nascent State of Israel,

That is a lie. Nobody invaded Israel.

And since half of the Palestinians were expelled before the1948 war, the refugees were not the result of the war.