All the House GOP and the President - what an unfair advantage!!!

[Correction: The Republicans were not able to do anything. The Democrats could have passed whatever they wanted.

The Republicans could have stopped the stimulus package, but they didn't. Why are they now complaining about it?

No they could not, dolt.
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You have proven my point. Republicans have had no power to stop any Democratic legislation. Only Democrats have been able to do that. Why don't you ask them?
 
[Correction: The Republicans were not able to do anything. The Democrats could have passed whatever they wanted.

The Republicans could have stopped the stimulus package, but they didn't. Why are they now complaining about it?

No they could not, dolt.
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You have proven my point. Republicans have had no power to stop any Democratic legislation. Only Democrats have been able to do that. Why don't you ask them?

The bill passed the Senate with 61 votes. Three Republicans voted for it. Now, if you got past the 3rd grade, you should be able to do the math. 61 - 3 = ???

Don't be an ass.
 
Seriously, Obama and Pelosi have caused Dem Candidates to lose recently because they've been too Centrists and accommodating. The Left is the best.

That's actually true. The healthcare plan for example, got less and less popular the more the Republicans were able to use their 40 votes plus one conservative Democrat or Independent to water it down and kill popular provisions in the bill.

Correction: The Republicans were not able to do anything. The Democrats could have passed whatever they wanted. But they were unable to persuade even such a reliable Dem vote as Olympia Snowe, much less their own members, to vote for a plan that was a clear loser and massively unpopular.
I dont know why the left continues with this fiction that Republicans blocked anything. But I do know the more they bang that drum, the more unpopular they become with a public that knows the truth.

The Democrats never had 60 votes. Lieberman is an Independent.
 
"Independents" are a diverse and fickle group. For example, while polls do indicate the current HC Bill as crafted isn't popular, there's still a question of what percentage of those polled are dissatisfied with it because it goes too far and what percentage feel it doesn't go far enough. Furthermore, there were polls that showed that the public option was one of the more popular proposals. Not exactly consistent with a public that's supposed to believe the Prez and his party are a bunch of America-hating commies.

I'm not dismissing the recent electoral victories by the GOP, but in two states (namely NJ and MA) there's still a question of how much was due to dissatisfaction with the Prez and the Dems and how much was for the Dem candidate in particular. In regards to Mass, btw, you might find Scott Brown to be quite a RINO in the end. His state still reportedly likes their own public healthcare system, after all. IOW, Massachusetts is still Massachusetts.

And as for all the things you listed as "attractions"...well, that's one way to look at it, I guess. Not everyone sees these things through that kind of filter, though. I'm guessing the Prez is taking the chance that enough people aren't so far gone into Beckland to listen to reason, though. And I'd say this week he did a damn good job of stating his case by reminding both sides of the aisle that it ain't November yet.

Think about it, Eric. If they were so sure of themselves... they'd have simply passed the damn thing. There didn't need a single Republican to do it. Politicians only have one skill in common... that's getting themselves and keeping themselves in office. They're not equipped to run banks and car companies. But the one thing they do well... is reading the mood of the people.

They KNOW that America doesn't want this. They can tell by the protests, and the polls, and the election results, and the phone calls to their offices. Otherwise, they'd have simply passed the damn thing in a matter of weeks.
 
The bill passed the Senate with 61 votes. Three Republicans voted for it. Now, if you got past the 3rd grade, you should be able to do the math. 61 - 3 = ???

Don't be an ass.

Turning two Republican Senators, from the blue state of Maine, does not "bipartisan" make. We won't count Benedict Arlen. Turns out he was an undercover Democrat all along. :lol:


Barack Obama has only himself to blame for the partisan tone in Washington. It was his JOB to set that tone. He failed to do that. He should have sent the bill back to Nancy when she failed to bring him a truly bipartisan effort. She couldn't even pull ONE Republican vote for her all-pork product. Not that one would've been enough to call it "bipartisan" any more than two, or even three would be enough.

Obama screwed himself just three measly weeks into his presidency. His only hope of salvaging it, was to veto that bill. But he didn't. He told us who he was the day he signed it. And that's toothpaste that will never go back into the tube.
 
That's actually true. The healthcare plan for example, got less and less popular the more the Republicans were able to use their 40 votes plus one conservative Democrat or Independent to water it down and kill popular provisions in the bill.

Correction: The Republicans were not able to do anything. The Democrats could have passed whatever they wanted. But they were unable to persuade even such a reliable Dem vote as Olympia Snowe, much less their own members, to vote for a plan that was a clear loser and massively unpopular.
I dont know why the left continues with this fiction that Republicans blocked anything. But I do know the more they bang that drum, the more unpopular they become with a public that knows the truth.

The Democrats never had 60 votes. Lieberman is an Independent.

Lieberman is a Democrat. He only has the label Independent because his party threw him overboard when he wouldn't support their radical foreign policy ideas. How often does he vote with the Dems?
 
That's actually true. The healthcare plan for example, got less and less popular the more the Republicans were able to use their 40 votes plus one conservative Democrat or Independent to water it down and kill popular provisions in the bill.

Correction: The Republicans were not able to do anything. The Democrats could have passed whatever they wanted. But they were unable to persuade even such a reliable Dem vote as Olympia Snowe, much less their own members, to vote for a plan that was a clear loser and massively unpopular.
I dont know why the left continues with this fiction that Republicans blocked anything. But I do know the more they bang that drum, the more unpopular they become with a public that knows the truth.

The Democrats never had 60 votes. Lieberman is an Independent.

Who votes with the Democratics on almost any and all liberal social agenda bills. So, naturally, the liberal Democratics did have 60 votes. They count the Socialist, too.

But you already knew this when you posted your intentionally deceptive blather.
 
Yes, counting Liebermann, the two Maine senators, Arlen Spectre, and at least two other moderate Republican senators will make the bill pass with a bi-partisan majority. Three words, guys: get over it.
 
Yes, counting Liebermann, the two Maine senators, Arlen Spectre, and at least two other moderate Republican senators will make the bill pass with a bi-partisan majority. Three words, guys: get over it.

Yeah. Party discipline doesn't exactly exist with the GOP.

But if you toss in enough bribes, there's more than "a-plenty" Party discipline on the Democrat side.

On the other hand, even schmucks like the two Maine losers have enough sense to take the nation's pulse. Even THOSE two chuckleheads were witness to the Brown victory in Massachusetts. It is within the realm of possibility that even those two may figure out the obvious!

They may not end up in the hip-pocket of the Democratics.
 
Hmmm . . . I wonder what Liability is saying. Not. :lol:
 
Exactly right, the Democrats have not gone far enough. The vote in Massachusetts was a protest against it.

Damn straight.
Obama and Pelosi and Reid need to get their hearts right, put on their fight suits and jump back in demanding a public option in a health care bill, cap n trade and other items of their agenda. That's what they got elected for, right?
Yes
 
Let's start HERE...tell me where the President you FEAR is wrong...

The%20White%20House%20Logo.jpg


THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary

______________________________________________
For Immediate Release June 3, 2009
TEXT OF A LETTER FROM THE PRESIDENT TO
SENATOR EDWARD M. KENNEDY AND SENATOR MAX BAUCUS

June 2, 2009
The Honorable Edward M. Kennedy
The Honorable Max Baucus
United States Senate
Washington, D.C. 20510

Dear Senator Kennedy and Senator Baucus:

The meeting that we held today was very productive and I want to commend you for your leadership -- and the hard work your Committees are doing on health care reform, one of the most urgent and important challenges confronting us as a Nation.

In 2009, health care reform is not a luxury. It's a necessity we cannot defer. Soaring health care costs make our current course unsustainable. It is unsustainable for our families, whose spiraling premiums and out-of-pocket expenses are pushing them into bankruptcy and forcing them to go without the checkups and prescriptions they need. It is unsustainable for businesses, forcing more and more of them to choose between keeping their doors open or covering their workers. And the ever-increasing cost of Medicare and Medicaid are among the main drivers of enormous budget deficits that are threatening our economic future.

In short, the status quo is broken, and pouring money into a broken system only perpetuates its inefficiencies. Doing nothing would only put our entire health care system at risk. Without meaningful reform, one fifth of our economy is projected to be tied up in our health care system in 10 years; millions more Americans are expected to go without insurance; and outside of what they are receiving for health care, workers are projected to see their take-home pay actually fall over time.
Here, Obama invokes his consistent belief that MORE GOVERNMENT is always the answer. Medicare/Medicaid are government programs under Congress' authority. In his opening statement, he's claiming authority over the entire private system. He has a point that there are problems which will eventually affect the American economy, but as we'll see later, with Obamacare's employer mandates and its failure to reform Medicare/Medicaid... the economy isn't his priority.

We simply cannot afford to postpone health care reform any longer. This recognition has led an unprecedented coalition to emerge on behalf of reform -- hospitals, physicians, and health insurers, labor and business, Democrats and Republicans. These groups, adversaries in past efforts, are now standing as partners on the same side of this debate.
Here, he tells us that a good number of the people he's been demonizing, like insurance companies and big business, are actually in bed with him.

At this historic juncture, we share the goal of quality, affordable health care for all Americans. But I want to stress that reform cannot mean focusing on expanded coverage alone. Indeed, without a serious, sustained effort to reduce the growth rate of health care costs, affordable health care coverage will remain out of reach. So we must attack the root causes of the inflation in health care. That means promoting the best practices, not simply the most expensive.
Here, he tells us of his intent to ration through "best practices". Bear in mind that costs CANNOT be controlled unless controls are actually put in place. The word "promoting" is misleading. Voluntary measures don't control costs.

We should ask why places like the Mayo Clinic in Minnesota, the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio, and other institutions can offer the highest quality care at costs well below the national norm. We need to learn from their successes and replicate those best practices across our country. That's how we can achieve reform that preserves and strengthens what's best about our health care system, while fixing what is broken.
You did hear that the Mayo Clinic in Arizona is turning away Medicare patients, didn't you? It turns out, the government isn't paying enough.

The plans you are discussing embody my core belief that Americans should have better choices for health insurance, building on the principle that if they like the coverage they have now, they can keep it, while seeing their costs lowered as our reforms take hold. But for those who don't have such options, I agree that we should create a health insurance exchange -- a market where Americans can one-stop shop for a health care plan, compare benefits and prices, and choose the plan that's best for them, in the same way that Members of Congress and their families can. None of these plans should deny coverage on the basis of a preexisting condition, and all of these plans should include an affordable basic benefit package that includes prevention, and protection against catastrophic costs. I strongly believe that Americans should have the choice of a public health insurance option operating alongside private plans. This will give them a better range of choices, make the health care market more competitive, and keep insurance companies honest.
This is the crux of the plan. And it's never made sense. For one thing, a single public option is NOT "competition". Not when you could open up the market and have something like 1300 companies "competing" practically overnight. That was alway a red herring. The private insurers would shit themselves.

For another, placing mandates upon private insurers as to what services they'll be forced to cover is what drives the costs of policies UP. When you compare State by State, those who require more services cost more. THIS is the mechanism by which the young in our country are forced to subsidize the old.

A young, unmarried man of 25 in good health, doesn't need a comprehensive policy. The insurers will pay out very little for him. Hell, it's unlikely that he'll bother to show up for any "preventative" care. He might go to the doctor once or twice a year, and unless he has a catastrophic illness or injury, two visits and a course of antibiotics are likely to cost him less than $400.00. If, we put an arbitrary price on insurance, say $200.00 per month... the insurance costs him $1,200.00.

Don't you ever wonder WHY the only squeak we've heard from these private insurers during this whole process was when they found out that the "taxes" under the individual mandate were less than the cost of insurance? They WANT these youngsters in their risk pools.

I understand the Committees are moving towards a principle of shared responsibility -- making every American responsible for having health insurance coverage, and asking that employers share in the cost. I share the goal of ending lapses and gaps in coverage that make us less healthy and drive up everyone's costs, and I am open to your ideas on shared responsibility. But I believe if we are going to make people responsible for owning health insurance, we must make health care affordable. If we do end up with a system where people are responsible for their own insurance, we need to provide a hardship waiver to exempt Americans who cannot afford it. In addition, while I believe that employers have a responsibility to support health insurance for their employees, small businesses face a number of special challenges in affording health benefits and should be exempted.

Here are the individual and employer mandates. And it puts the lie to Obama's earlier concern about the economy. This letter was dated in June 2009. By then, the collapse had already happened. Providing a predictable business climate in which jobs and economic growth could happen should have been the priority. We needed to be moving AWAY from the concept of third-party payers. Nobody cares what their benefits cost when someone else is paying the bill.

In paragraph 1, he tells us, "It is unsustainable for businesses, forcing more and more of them to choose between keeping their doors open or covering their workers." And yet, he continues to demand the burden be carried by employers.

He also let's us know that he's looking for a place to dump small business and the poor. This was where his "public option" was going to get its numbers. It was Harkin's "starter house" for socialist medicine. Even without the "pubic option", he doesn't have any way to pay for this. That's why we're hearing governors complaining about the additional costs being passed to the States.

You'd think private insurers would've been making some noise about his intent to cap the costs of policies. "But I believe if we are going to make people responsible for owning health insurance, we must make health care affordable." The fact that they didn't, should tell you how high the caps are promised to be. :eek:

Health care reform must not add to our deficits over the next 10 years -- it must be at least deficit neutral and put America on a path to reducing its deficit over time. To fulfill this promise, I have set aside $635 billion in a health reserve fund as a down payment on reform. This reserve fund includes a number of proposals to cut spending by $309 billion over 10 years --reducing overpayments to Medicare Advantage private insurers; strengthening Medicare and Medicaid payment accuracy by cutting waste, fraud and abuse; improving care for Medicare patients after hospitalizations; and encouraging physicians to form "accountable care organizations" to improve the quality of care for Medicare patients. The reserve fund also includes a proposal to limit the tax rate at which high-income taxpayers can take itemized deductions to 28 percent, which, together with other steps to close loopholes, would raise $326 billion over 10 years.

To begin with... the idea that any of his ideas for payment would work out as predicted is ludicrous. No social programs EVER come in on, or under, budget. That's just plain history.

The whole REASON why AARP jumped in with him, was to kill Medicare Advantage. AARP is an INSURANCE COMPANY. They may have started out as a lobbying group for seniors, but they make their money selling supplemental insurance. You can't see what's going on, unless you look at what's available for gain. AARP is using our federal government to ax their competitors. It's blatant Corporatism.

Further, the words, "waste, fraud, and abuse" are designed to make us believe they're only going to be trimming the fat. We hear the phrase, "waste, fraud, and abuse" and our minds only process "fraud". Think about who it is that will determine what is "waste"? Think about who it is that decides what is "abuse"?

I am committed to working with the Congress to fully offset the cost of health care reform by reducing Medicare and Medicaid spending by another $200 to $300 billion over the next 10 years, and by enacting appropriate proposals to generate additional revenues. These savings will come not only by adopting new technologies and addressing the vastly different costs of care, but from going after the key drivers of skyrocketing health care costs, including unmanaged chronic diseases, duplicated tests, and unnecessary hospital readmissions.
More rationing for seniors. Plus the unconstitutional seizure of our medical records as "new techologies". This should TELL YOU that Comparative Effectiveness Research is a rationing tool. Who decides what is "unnecessary"? :eek:

To identify and achieve additional savings, I am also open to your ideas about giving special consideration to the recommendations of the Medicare Payment Advisory Commission (MedPAC), a commission created by a Republican Congress. Under this approach, MedPAC's recommendations on cost reductions would be adopted unless opposed by a joint resolution of the Congress. This is similar to a process that has been used effectively by a commission charged with closing military bases, and could be a valuable tool to help achieve health care reform in a fiscally responsible way.
These are some of the issues I look forward to discussing with you in greater detail in the weeks and months ahead. But this year, we must do more than discuss. We must act. The American people and America's future demand it.
This is a bypass of the Legislature's authority. He knows reductions to Medicare will be unpopular with voters. He wants a third party to pin it on.

I know that you have reached out to Republican colleagues, as I have, and that you have worked hard to reach a bipartisan consensus about many of these issues. I remain hopeful that many Republicans will join us in enacting this historic legislation that will lower health care costs for families, businesses, and governments, and improve the lives of millions of Americans. So, I appreciate your efforts, and look forward to working with you so that the Congress can complete health care reform by October.
Sincerely,
BARACK OBAMA
# # #

Letter from President Obama to Chairmen Edward M. Kennedy and Max Baucus | The White House

This last is vague. Almost as if he's touching upon something that we're not privy too. Teddy was dead by August, and this was just a few months prior. It could be that Obama didn't know how sick he was and wanted him to pressure some Republicans. Although, its hard to believe the family kept it from him. But then again, Kennedy's last known public appearance was in early August, so we can assume he was at least ambulatory until that time. Who knows? :eusa_eh:



Anyway, I'm glad you posted that letter. It may seem benign on its surface, but it's chock full of the intent for presumptuous government expansion and shed light on who the players really are.
 
Exactly right, the Democrats have not gone far enough. The vote in Massachusetts was a protest against it.

Damn straight.
Obama and Pelosi and Reid need to get their hearts right, put on their fight suits and jump back in demanding a public option in a health care bill, cap n trade and other items of their agenda. That's what they got elected for, right?
Yes

Good. Now get out there and get on the horn or the email and blast your reps in Congress, especially those up for re-election, to push this.

MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Murf, I really don't think anyone is reading what you are posting. You don't have the creditibility to encourage people to do that. So . . . post in a few crisp sentences and see if you can change that.
 
Murf, I really don't think anyone is reading what you are posting. You don't have the creditibility to encourage people to do that. So . . . post in a few crisp sentences and see if you can change that.

Surely you won't mind if I refrain from taking advice from an Arlen Specter wannabe who appears to delight in claiming Republicanism while daily proving to us that he doesn't understand the first jot of it.

Bfgrn asked me a question. I answered it. If the length of my posts disturbs you in some fashion. Feel free to put me on iggy. I promise... I won't be a bit offended. :eusa_angel:
 
15th post
Correction: The Republicans were not able to do anything. The Democrats could have passed whatever they wanted. But they were unable to persuade even such a reliable Dem vote as Olympia Snowe, much less their own members, to vote for a plan that was a clear loser and massively unpopular.
I dont know why the left continues with this fiction that Republicans blocked anything. But I do know the more they bang that drum, the more unpopular they become with a public that knows the truth.

The Democrats never had 60 votes. Lieberman is an Independent.

Who votes with the Democratics on almost any and all liberal social agenda bills. So, naturally, the liberal Democratics did have 60 votes. They count the Socialist, too.

But you already knew this when you posted your intentionally deceptive blather.

Lieberman is not a Democrat. He defeated a Democrat to get re-elected. He got 70% of the Republican vote in CT to get re-elected. He endorsed John McCain for president.

How many times do you suppose I'll have to knock you on the head with that before it gets through?
 
[Correction: The Republicans were not able to do anything. The Democrats could have passed whatever they wanted.

The Republicans could have stopped the stimulus package, but they didn't. Why are they now complaining about it?

Here's a better question: Why have so many openly celebrated it when they trashed it before it got passed?
 
That's actually true. The healthcare plan for example, got less and less popular the more the Republicans were able to use their 40 votes plus one conservative Democrat or Independent to water it down and kill popular provisions in the bill.

Correction: The Republicans were not able to do anything. The Democrats could have passed whatever they wanted. But they were unable to persuade even such a reliable Dem vote as Olympia Snowe, much less their own members, to vote for a plan that was a clear loser and massively unpopular.
I dont know why the left continues with this fiction that Republicans blocked anything. But I do know the more they bang that drum, the more unpopular they become with a public that knows the truth.

The Democrats never had 60 votes. Lieberman is an Independent.

Yup.

There was an rticle recently that said something like, "The Dems will at least not have to worry about maintaining a filibuster-proof majority after the next midterm elections". In reality, they won't lose what they never really had.
 
The Democrats never had 60 votes. Lieberman is an Independent.

Who votes with the Democratics on almost any and all liberal social agenda bills. So, naturally, the liberal Democratics did have 60 votes. They count the Socialist, too.

But you already knew this when you posted your intentionally deceptive blather.

Lieberman is not a Democrat. He defeated a Democrat to get re-elected. He got 70% of the Republican vote in CT to get re-elected. He endorsed John McCain for president.

How many times do you suppose I'll have to knock you on the head with that before it gets through?

Who was Al Gore's running mate on the Democratic Party ticket in 2000? SOme guy from CT, right?
 
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