All 4 former Ukraine regions vote to join Russia

[ESay]

Semantics. What's a treaty if not an agreement between nations?

Idiot. If we agree to sell your basement, it doesn't become my property unless all legal procedures are done. Until that, I can't go there and tell you to get out of it despite all pleads and assurances you had made.

I don't believe this should be explained to an adult person.

 

[Stann]

It’s exactly the kind of “democracy” Democrats want here, to jail all political opposition.

You people are crazy. Whoever that leader was before 2014 starting with a Y was a public government of the Russians. That's why they were able to take the Crimea without a struggle. putin put him in place. Zelensky was freely elected and actually is a Ukrainian and represents the Ukraine. As far as making a political group illegal only applied to anti-government groups pro- Russian groups. All other groups weren't affected. What would you do if Russia invaded your country. It doesn't make sense to allow the enemy to have political groups in your nation. Wake the f****** already.

 

[Stann]

It’s exactly the kind of “democracy” Democrats want here, to jail all political opposition.

Actually that's what the Republicans want. They said they lock up all the Democrats.

 

[ClaireH]

It’s exactly the kind of “democracy” Democrats want here, to jail all political opposition.

I have a couple of friends who are registered Democrats. When the group of us (8 couples) goes camping together politics is typically brought up around the fire pit. Since we are good friends we keep it relatively civil using a lot of sarcasm. There are always two sides to each issue discussed, nobody caves nobody gives in, but everybody does listen. From these discussions and expanding this opinion to what I read online, the stark differences between corporate Democrats and leftists (in our small group we have both of these types of Democrats) should result in a split of their party. Some of the most heated arguments/discussions we’ve had have been between the leftists and corporate Democrats.

Nationally, LSM keeps a gag on the divisive nature among the Dems for PR purposes. While this hidden agenda sparring goes on behind the scenes, the US media makes them seem united which is a falsehood. I don’t support the goals of either Dem group.

 

[Rust_Cohle]

Idiot. If we agree to sell your basement, it doesn't become my property unless all legal procedures are done. Until that, I can't go there and tell you to get out of it despite all pleads and assurances you had made.

I don't believe this should be explained to an adult person.

I have to agree to the sale of my property first. Don't I?

 

[Rust_Cohle]

You people are crazy. Whoever that leader was before 2014 starting with a Y was a public government of the Russians. That's why they were able to take the Crimea without a struggle. putin put him in place. Zelensky was freely elected and actually is a Ukrainian and represents the Ukraine. As far as making a political group illegal only applied to anti-government groups pro- Russian groups. All other groups weren't affected. What would you do if Russia invaded your country. It doesn't make sense to allow the enemy to have political groups in your nation. Wake the f****** already.

 

[ESay]

I have to agree to the sale of my property first. Don't I?

You actually agree to that when you sign the papers. Until that, it is just words that can mean nothing.

 

[Rust_Cohle]

You actually agree to that when you sign the papers. Until that, it is just words that can mean nothing.

I still have to agree so looks like you won't be getting my house anytime soon enjoy YOUR basement

 

[ClaireH]

Self-determination seems fair to me for all. When a majority wants an area to be annexed, how can the minority group of voters determine the fate of the province? If people believe that Ukraine is a democratic nation self determination should be embraced, not an authoritarian government portrayed as some liberator.

Those of us living in the United States benefit from tracing our ancestral roots. Most of us come from family lines that were actively persecuted (religiously and politically) and fled those countries to determine their own fate, not be forced to live under secular rule disguised as democracy.

 

[Toro]

Ooooh, reverse referendum.

Burn!

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Self-determination seems fair to me for all. When a majority wants an area to be annexed, how can the minority group of voters determine the fate of the province? If people believe that Ukraine is a democratic nation self determination should be embraced, not an authoritarian government portrayed as some liberator.

Those of us living in the United States benefit from tracing our ancestral roots. Most of us come from family lines that were actively persecuted (religiously and politically) and fled those countries to determine their own fate, not be forced to live under secular rule disguised as democracy.

Self-determination seems fair to me for all. When a majority wants an area to be annexed, how can the minority group of voters determine the fate of the province?

Sounds good. When do all the provinces of Russia get to vote on whether they want to leave?

 

[ClaireH]

Self-determination seems fair to me for all. When a majority wants an area to be annexed, how can the minority group of voters determine the fate of the province?

Sounds good. When do all the provinces of Russia get to vote on whether they want to leave?

A fair question, however, Russia does not proclaim to be a democracy and never has like Zelensky’s false claims.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A fair question, however, Russia does not proclaim to be a democracy and never has like Zelensky’s false claims.

Russia does not proclaim to be a democracy

Russians in Ukraine get to "vote" to join Russia but no one in Russia can vote to leave?
What about self-determination?

and never has like Zelensky’s false claims.

Zelensky was elected.

 

[ClaireH]

Russia does not proclaim to be a democracy

Russians in Ukraine get to "vote" to join Russia but no one in Russia can vote to leave?
What about self-determination?

and never has like Zelensky’s false claims.

Zelensky was elected.

You asked: “When do all the provinces of Russia get to vote on whether they want to leave?” I gave you the answer, Russia is not a democracy.

You posted: Zelensky was elected. My response as noted in previous post- If people believe that Ukraine is a democratic nation self determination should be embraced, not an authoritarian government portrayed as some liberator.

 

[toomuchtime_]

You asked: “When do all the provinces of Russia get to vote on whether they want to leave?” I gave you the answer, Russia is not a democracy.

You posted: Zelensky was elected. My response as noted in previous post- If people believe that Ukraine is a democratic nation self determination should be embraced, not an authoritarian government portrayed as some liberator.

Actually, since Russia holds elections for President and members of its parliament, Russia is a fake democracy, just as Putin's referendums in Ukraine are fake referendums.

 

[para bellum]

I gave you the answer, Russia is not a democracy.

Well then referendums in Ukraine are meaningless. As you say, Russia is not a democracy. How can they hold a referendum in Ukraine when they can't hold one in Russia?

Are you going to argue that Ukrainians voted to surrender their own voting rights? And that it is anything resembling rational for a country that is not a democracy to hold a referendum on anything, in some other country than their own?

If Ukraine were to hold referendums in recaptured territory, do you really think the Ukrainians would vote to be part of Russia? Every single town that the AFU liberates, the citizens flock to the streets and greet the Ukraine army as liberators. In some places they didn't even wait for the AFU to arrive and tear down the Russian flags- they did it themselves as soon as the Russians bugged out.

Putin is a madman. What kind of person would threaten to nuke a country he is claiming to be liberating?

 

[Toro]

Kill many people, drive away many more people, deport even more people, draft any males who are left, then go door to door and at gunpoint, ask people if they want to join Russia. Then get people to believe it was a referendum.

 

[ClaireH]

Actually, since Russia holds elections for President and members of its parliament, Russia is a fake democracy, just as Putin's referendums in Ukraine are fake referendums.

Not so fast although a good point.

Let’s be specific: “After 1991, the Russian Federation became a presidential republic with a semi-presidential system. This means that people express their wishes by electing both the legislature (a parliament, in Russia – the Federal Assembly) and the executive (the President, who approves the government formed by the Prime Minister) branches of power. To pass a law, both the Federal Assembly and the President must approve it.”

What type of government does Russia actually have?

No, a ‘democracy’ is not a type of government.

www.rbth.com

Ukraine under Zelenskyy:

“Zelensky sold himself as a fighter of oligarchs. He only had to take on one oligarch, but he had to align himself with others,” Tim Ash, a London-based emerging markets strategist from BlueBay Asset Management, said at an online conference on May 6. The IMF ultimately approved a $5 billion assistance package for Ukraine earlier this month.”

“Zelensky has continued sacking newcomers on the reform scene. Many of those now departing are government officials who came to the civil service from the private sector through competitive procedures and were tasked to clean up their respective institutions, including the prosecutor’s office, the tax service and customs. As replacements for these and other senior posts, Zelensky is appointing seasoned politicians with sketchy pasts, including a some who were lustrated in the aftermath of the Euromaidan Revolution in 2014.”

A brief history of corruption in Ukraine: the dawn of the Zelensky era

Zelensky’s supporters are still hoping to see more of his television character in real life. Part 6 in @kgorchinskaya|s series, A brief history of corruption in Ukraine

eurasianet.org

Provide your evidence that the vote outcome was procured via threats or direct force in the separatist region.

 

[ClaireH]

Well then referendums in Ukraine are meaningless. As you say, Russia is not a democracy. How can they hold a referendum in Ukraine when they can't hold one in Russia?

Are you going to argue that Ukrainians voted to surrender their own voting rights? And that it is anything resembling rational for a country that is not a democracy to hold a referendum on anything, in some other country than their own?

If Ukraine were to hold referendums in recaptured territory, do you really think the Ukrainians would vote to be part of Russia? Every single town that the AFU liberates, the citizens flock to the streets and greet the Ukraine army as liberators. In some places they didn't even wait for the AFU to arrive and tear down the Russian flags- they did it themselves as soon as the Russians bugged out.

Putin is a madman. What kind of person would threaten to nuke a country he is claiming to be liberating?

The people of the separatist majority regions held the referendums. They had pro Russian leaders for years and many people both Russian and Ukraine.

Well then referendums in Ukraine are meaningless. As you say, Russia is not a democracy. How can they hold a referendum in Ukraine when they can't hold one in Russia?

Are you going to argue that Ukrainians voted to surrender their own voting rights? And that it is anything resembling rational for a country that is not a democracy to hold a referendum on anything, in some other country than their own?

If Ukraine were to hold referendums in recaptured territory, do you really think the Ukrainians would vote to be part of Russia? Every single town that the AFU liberates, the citizens flock to the streets and greet the Ukraine army as liberators. In some places they didn't even wait for the AFU to arrive and tear down the Russian flags- they did it themselves as soon as the Russians bugged out.

Putin is a madman. What kind of person would threaten to nuke a country he is claiming to be liberating?

Let me be clear, I am not a Putin fan. My intent is to gauge the truth. Do I claim to not have biases regarding the entire political spectrum? I absolutely have biases and so does everyone else if they’re honest.

Now, in response to your post I’ve selected an anti-Russia media piece that contains factual evidence. In order to talk about what’s happening now we have to look at what happened in the past that led to current conditions.

“It was shortly before the May 11, 2014 “referendum” organised by pro-Russia separatists in Donetsk and the neighbouring, smaller region of Luhansk.

Known collectively as “Donbas”, the regions broke away from the central government in Kyiv – and were recognisedby Moscow only this year.”

“Kyiv, Ukraine – “Russia will come here. There will be plenty of money. Everything will be in order!” That’s what Valerii, a minibus driver, told me eight years ago in Donetsk, the administrative capital of the eponymous region in southeastern Ukraine.”

How Ukraine’s Donbas has ‘evolved’ under pro-Russia separatists

The ‘Soviet workers’ paradise’ transformed several times ahead of the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

www.aljazeera.com

Alas, it’s been is pure tragedy for those people who live in that region. The people had hope about Russia saving them and held that hope for years prior to now.

I do not have first-hand information about the recent voting being under “Russian control”which implies that no one living there is (and has been for many years prior to 2014) pro-Russian with which couldn’t be further than the truth. Russians and Ukrainians mostly feel like cousins (many are related) to each other, and people did not even want the war to be forced to “kill their own cousins”. It is a human tragedy.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Not so fast although a good point.

Let’s be specific: “After 1991, the Russian Federation became a presidential republic with a semi-presidential system. This means that people express their wishes by electing both the legislature (a parliament, in Russia – the Federal Assembly) and the executive (the President, who approves the government formed by the Prime Minister) branches of power. To pass a law, both the Federal Assembly and the President must approve it.”

What type of government does Russia actually have?

No, a ‘democracy’ is not a type of government.

www.rbth.com

Ukraine under Zelenskyy:

“Zelensky sold himself as a fighter of oligarchs. He only had to take on one oligarch, but he had to align himself with others,” Tim Ash, a London-based emerging markets strategist from BlueBay Asset Management, said at an online conference on May 6. The IMF ultimately approved a $5 billion assistance package for Ukraine earlier this month.”

“Zelensky has continued sacking newcomers on the reform scene. Many of those now departing are government officials who came to the civil service from the private sector through competitive procedures and were tasked to clean up their respective institutions, including the prosecutor’s office, the tax service and customs. As replacements for these and other senior posts, Zelensky is appointing seasoned politicians with sketchy pasts, including a some who were lustrated in the aftermath of the Euromaidan Revolution in 2014.”

A brief history of corruption in Ukraine: the dawn of the Zelensky era

Zelensky’s supporters are still hoping to see more of his television character in real life. Part 6 in @kgorchinskaya|s series, A brief history of corruption in Ukraine

eurasianet.org

Provide your evidence that the vote outcome was procured via threats or direct force in the separatist region.

In your previous post, you stated Russia was not a democracy and in this one you describe Russia as a democracy. Obviously, you haven't finished thinking your way through this issue. You seem similarly confused about whether the referendums were valid, but it doesn't matter because once the Russians withdraw from Ukraine in order for Ukraine to join the EU and NATO, Ukraine will have to deal with any internal political problems fairly and transparently.