Ali's phenomenally weak punch

[Godboy]

Those fighters were beaten before they stepped in the ring

Ali would not be afraid of him and could take a punch
Ali could fight a war for 15 rounds
Tyson would quit if he didn’t get an early knockout

Late stage Tyson may have quit, but nothing would have stopped that guy in his early days. Especially not when Cus was at his side.

 

[rightwinger]

Not only that they just weren't all that. They were tough guys - I'll give them that. They were badasses in terms of balls. They had balls of steel - that I will concede. But that was 80s boxing: stand in there and just bang the fuck out of each other. But it wasn't good boxing, and that's why Cus D'Amato was able to turn Tyson into a champion at just the right time. Tony Tucker. Tony Tubbs. James Smith. Marvis Frazier. Trevor Berbick. I mean these were guys that just stood there and banged each other, and none of them had ever seen an athlete like Tyson. But the fighters of the 70s and 90s most definitely had.

Tyson just never had the quality of opponent that Ali faced

Liston, Frazier, Norton; Foreman

 

[Godboy]

Tyson just never had the quality of opponent that Ali faced

Liston, Frazier, Norton; Foreman

^ This is true, but that doesnt automatically mean he wasnt better.

 

[multivita-man]

Would you accept arguments from me if i was using Ali's last 3 fights as examples of his prowess? Of course not.

Here's the thing, bruh. Mike Tyson in his prime never really had an impressive opponent. That's not Mike Tyson's fault, okay? I'm not hating on Tyson. In fact Iron Mike is actually one of my favorite athletes and fighters of all time - he has his place in history. I just don't think he's as great as his fanboys think because he reached his prime at just the right time in the sport.

To add a little more context, I have stated on other forums that Mike Tyson *was* a great fighter - can't take that away from him. And yeah, I do concede that end-career Tyson was a hot mess compared to early-career Tyson. I think Mike Tyson from 1987-1989 would have had a puncher's chance against a lot of great fighters. I know I dissed Tyson for his fight against an aging Holmes.

Just to be clear, I've actually disagreed with some Tyson skeptics who argued that Holmes was washed up and that young Holmes would have beaten Tyson. I honestly think prime Tyson was better than prime Holmes for the reasons I've already stated: Holmes was that late 70s and early 80s fighter that liked to use a jab and load up on the right hand. That style was made to order for Iron Mike who used his hand speed and head movement to get around that style of fighting. Tyson did clean the heavies in the 80s and he gets respect for that because that wasn't easy to do. Not every fighter can say they fuckin demolished an entire division, so Tyson gets his props from me.

But shit, Emanuel Steward and Angelo Dundee both said the same thing of Tyson when he was already up and coming, which is that he won't be a champion by the time he's 30 and they were 100% right and that's because they knew his head movement, as great as it was, was dependent on his youth. Put him in the ring against a guy who can jab and take punches, and it's a different game. And Buster Douglas proved that right.

 

[multivita-man]

Tyson just never had the quality of opponent that Ali faced

Liston, Frazier, Norton; Foreman

Prime Tyson would have been a threat to KO Ali in the first 3 rounds - he would have been a threat to KO anyone in boxing history. But Ali would have known this and would have protected himself. Prime Ali would have rolled with the punches, would have taken Tyson's best shots, would have taken Tyson into the late rounds and carved him up like a Thanksgiving turkey.

 

[multivita-man]

Dudes, I am a lifelong boxing fan. I used to watch USA Tuesday Night fights with Sean O'Grady and Al Albert from the Blue Horizon in Philadelphia. I know my boxing, lol. I used to get the Ring. I used to read Bert Sugar. I've worked out at boxing gyms. I know boxing.

 

[Godboy]

Here's the thing, bruh. Mike Tyson in his prime never really had an impressive opponent. That's not Mike Tyson's fault, okay? I'm not hating on Tyson. In fact Iron Mike is actually one of my favorite athletes and fighters of all time - he has his place in history. I just don't think he's as great as his fanboys think because he reached his prime at just the right time in the sport.

To add a little more context, I have stated on other forums that Mike Tyson *was* a great fighter - can't take that away from him. And yeah, I do concede that end-career Tyson was a hot mess compared to early-career Tyson. I think Mike Tyson from 1987-1989 would have had a puncher's chance against a lot of great fighters. I know I dissed Tyson for his fight against an aging Holmes.

Just to be clear, I've actually disagreed with some Tyson skeptics who argued that Holmes was washed up and that young Holmes would have beaten Tyson. I honestly think prime Tyson was better than prime Holmes for the reasons I've already stated: Holmes was that late 70s and early 80s fighter that liked to use a jab and load up on the right hand. That style was made to order for Iron Mike who used his hand speed and head movement to get around that style of fighting. Tyson did clean the heavies in the 80s and he gets respect for that because that wasn't easy to do. Not every fighter can say they fuckin demolished an entire division, so Tyson gets his props from me.

But shit, Emanuel Steward and Angelo Dundee both said the same thing of Tyson when he was already up and coming, which is that he won't be a champion by the time he's 30 and they were 100% right and that's because they knew his head movement, as great as it was, was dependent on his youth. Put him in the ring against a guy who can jab and take punches, and it's a different game. And Buster Douglas proved that right.

Reasonable summation, but again, Tyson was on cocaine during the training camp for Buster Douglas. He didnt have it in him anymore at that point. He was a broken man.

 

[rightwinger]

Prime Tyson would have been a threat to KO Ali in the first 3 rounds - he would have been a threat to KO anyone in boxing history. But Ali would have known this and would have protected himself. Prime Ali would have rolled with the punches, would have taken Tyson's best shots, would have taken Tyson into the late rounds and carved him up like a Thanksgiving turkey.

Many people remember Ali as the Float like a Butterfly, Sting like a Bee fighter

I remember the post ban Ali. He was boring to watch. Tie up the other fighter, clench, slip punches, don’t let him get a good shot at you. He would throw flurries at the end of the round to steal the round.

But he was a master craftsman who knew what it took to wear down his opponent and put him away by the end

 

[multivita-man]

Reasonable summation, but again, Tyson was on cocaine during the training camp for Buster Douglas. He didnt have it in him anymore at that point. He was a broken man.

I don't disagree that the fight against Douglas was an aberration - a 'normal' Tyson would have beaten Douglas, and honestly if Tyson had had anyone but that Amos n Andy clown show crew he had in his corner that night, he probably would have won. Heal a swelling eye with a fucking water balloon? WTF?! No doubt that fight was an aberration and he would have mauled Douglas in a rematch.

I will also give Tyson credit for something that a lot of critics trash him on, which is his heart and will to fight. In fact Tyson was actually a really tough guy who took a punch and who had the will to keep fighting even when he was getting beaten up. I think his will kinda disappeared in later fights but prime Tyson could take punches and he actually fought while hurt a few times. It's not talked about much but some fighters actually hurt Tyson and he still kept fighting in later rounds. Tyson was a tough fighter, contrary to some critics' opinions.

But Douglas did do one thing that would follow Tyson around the rest of his career: if you can jab Tyson, if you can box him, and keep him at a distance, you can beat him, and later fighters figured that out. And as I said, the 1970s fighters faded and the Olympians of 1984 and 88 needed time to develop. Once those Olympians developed, it was over for Mike. He was older and moved less, and he didn't have the boxing skills to keep up with the big boys.

 

[Godboy]

I don't disagree that the fight against Douglas was an aberration - a 'normal' Tyson would have beaten Douglas, and honestly if Tyson had had anyone but that Amos n Andy clown show crew he had in his corner that night, he probably would have won. Heal a swelling eye with a fucking water balloon? WTF?! No doubt that fight was an aberration and he would have mauled Douglas in a rematch.

I will also give Tyson credit for something that a lot of critics trash him on, which is his heart and will to fight. In fact Tyson was actually a really tough guy who took a punch and who had the will to keep fighting even when he was getting beaten up. I think his will kinda disappeared in later fights but prime Tyson could take punches and he actually fought while hurt a few times. It's not talked about much but some fighters actually hurt Tyson and he still kept fighting in later rounds. Tyson was a tough fighter, contrary to some critics' opinions.

But Douglas did do one thing that would follow Tyson around the rest of his career: if you can jab Tyson, if you can box him, and keep him at a distance, you can beat him, and later fighters figured that out. And as I said, the 1970s fighters faded and the Olympians of 1984 and 88 needed time to develop. Once those Olympians developed, it was over for Mike. He was older and moved less, and he didn't have the boxing skills to keep up with the big boys.

Hey, speaking of swollen eyes, did you ever see Mitch Green's face after him and Tyson got into a street fight? Such a crazy story. I imagine you are familiar with it. If not, you should immediately go find a video of Tyson talking about it. Mitch Green was a straight up hoodlum. Scary dude.

 

[multivita-man]

I remember that when that story came out back in the late 80s. Mitch Green actually gave Tyson a really good fight inside the ring. Tyson was the clear winner but Green was one of the few who could stand up to the punishment that Tyson threw at him and occasionally, Green countered. He just couldn't hurt Tyson, because as I said, Tyson wasn't just a schoolyard bully; he could actually take a punch. Sometimes Tyson actually fought better when he got hit because he fought smarter and had the awareness to say "Oh shit, this guy can bang. I need to use all my skills now."

 

[multivita-man]

Here's who I think Tyson could have beaten:

Joe Frazier, because he was a bigger version of Smokin Joe.

Rocky Marciano, because he was a bigger version of Rocky.

Ernie Shavers? 50/50. He beats Shavers if he can slip his punches and rough him up.

Larry Holmes (any age). Holmes' style was made to order for Mike.

Evander Holyfield 1986-1988. He was bigger than Holyfield at that time, but not after 1989. Holyfield would win anytime after.

Lennox Lewis 1986-1990. Puncher's chance before 1990. But not so much after 1990. Lewis developed somewhat slowly as a pro boxer, but when he did, he was somethin special.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Oh? And what combat sports websites are YOU a member of? Actually, fuck all that. Explain to us your original comment. Go into detail about why Tyson would have the same result as those other guys. Lets see what youve got. Maybe i was wrong. Now is your chance to prove it.

how come you are not saying this bullshit to all the others here who have the same opinion as me?......and wow you are a member of a combat website?....you must be a good bullshiter....

 

[rupol2000]

Like hell he would have. Ali was a naturally bigger, rangier fighter than Mike Tyson, and he was a much, much better boxer. And if there's one type of fighter that really gave Tyson problems, it was taller, rangier fighters who could box, especially if they could use a left jab, stick, and move.

Ali would have taken Tyson into the late rounds and clubbed him good. There's no version of Mike Tyson that beats Ali.

You are a zero in boxing. Tyson's technique was specifically for big fighters. He used to went to close range and cut them down where it is difficult to reach him. Only a complete layman could say that.

 

[multivita-man]

You are a zero in boxing. Tyson's technique was specifically for big fighters. He used to went to close range and cut them down where it is difficult to reach him. Only a complete layman could say that.

Name one great fighter that Tyson beat in their prime. Spinks was a great fighter but he was a pumped-up light heavy/cruiserweight who overachieved to become a heavyweight champion. Holmes was way, way past his prime.

I can't think of a truly great heavy that Tyson beat in his prime. I can name several that Ali beat.

 

[The Duke]

Cassius Clay knew how to bob and weave.

 

[The Duke]

Name one great fighter that Tyson beat in their prime. Spinks was a great fighter but he was a pumped-up light heavy/cruiserweight who overachieved to become a heavyweight champion. Holmes was way, way past his prime.

I can't think of a truly great heavy that Tyson beat in his prime. I can name several that Ali beat.

You need to stop denigrating Tyson, because you couldn't beat him.
You ain't nowhere near anything. How many fights have you been in and won? Hmm?

He had a better record than you'll ever have, chump.

Now I'm watching my friend that weighs about 140 lbs max, and I bet you couldn't touch him.

I'm way bigger, but he is a professional fighter.

For any fight you might could see him in, I know he's won 4-5 underground with no gloves or anything.

Well, 143, but that's OK.

 

[rupol2000]

Name one great fighter that Tyson beat in their prime. Spinks was a great fighter but he was a pumped-up light heavy/cruiserweight who overachieved to become a heavyweight champion. Holmes was way, way past his prime.

I can't think of a truly great heavy that Tyson beat in his prime. I can name several that Ali beat.

It wasn't about that. I said that you are talking complete garbage about Tyson's tactics and with such concepts it is too early for you to talk about boxing. It's better for you to watch some kind of series about blue pony.

 

[multivita-man]

It wasn't about that. I said that you are talking complete garbage about Tyson's tactics and with such concepts it is too early for you to talk about boxing. It's better for you to watch some kind of series about blue pony.

 

[multivita-man]

You need to stop denigrating Tyson, because you couldn't beat him.
You ain't nowhere near anything. How many fights have you been in and won? Hmm?

He had a better record than you'll ever have, chump.

Now I'm watching my friend that weighs about 140 lbs max, and I bet you couldn't touch him.

I'm way bigger, but he is a professional fighter.

For any fight you might could see him in, I know he's won 4-5 underground with no gloves or anything.

I'll denigrate Tyson if I want, lol.