Ali's phenomenally weak punch

[multivita-man]

Holmes beat the crap out of Ali convincingly.

Yeah when Ali was 39 and had clear signs of brain damage.

And Tyson knocked out Holmes.

I don't think Iron Mike would have had any problem with Ali.

Prime and even post-prime Ali would have beaten Tyson, no problem. Tyson was really good at one thing: he cleaned out the heavyweight division in the 1980s but the Olympic boxers in 1984 and 1988 caught up to Tyson.

I've covered this on other forums. In the late 1970s and early 1980s, the best of the boxing legends - including some of the best the sport had ever seen -were on the decline. The fighters who came in to replace the Alis, Foremans, Nortons were bigger, stronger, powerful boxers but they were stand-up, straight-up fighters, including Larry Holmes and Gerry Cooney.

The fighters that took over in the 1980s basically had one game plan: stand and trade blows with your opponent and use your jab to create distance. The head movement, the athleticism, the boxing...it was all gone. Until Tyson came to town. Tyson was the most athletically gifted fighter the division had seen since Ali in his prime back in 1975. The stand-up and trade blows fighters paid the price against Tyson who, under Cus D'Amato's tutelage, emphasized head movement and counterpunching. He was made for the 1980s, after the great legends of the 1970s had retired and before the Olympic boxers of the 1984 and 1988 squad started to develop. Once Holyfield, Lennox, and Bowe developed, Tyson was done. Never had a chance against any of those guys. And if you think Holyfield and Lewis beat Tyson, Bowe would have murdered him.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Have you ever taken a look at his record? He is the king of decisions. Dude barely knocked anyone out. It always annoys me when people say he was the greatest boxer of all time. Tyson would have smacked the shit out of Ali.

if guys like Shavers,Norton and Forman couldnt knock him out.....you think Tyson could?....

 

[Godboy]

if guys like Shavers,Norton and Forman couldnt knock him out.....you think Tyson could?....

None of those guys fought like Tyson. I dont think you are well versed enough for this conversation.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Holmes beat the crap out of Ali convincingly.

And Tyson knocked out Holmes.

I don't think Iron Mike would have had any problem with Ali.

what was Ali's age compared to Holmes at that time?....

 

[Harry Dresden]

None of those guys fought like Tyson. I dont think you are well versed enough for this conversation.

oh give me a break....who the fuck are you?.....

 

[multivita-man]

if guys like Shavers,Norton and Forman couldnt knock him out.....you think Tyson could?....

He fought Shavers with brain damage. He was a brain damaged fighter when he fought Shavers and he still somehow won. Whether he actually won is debatable, but the fact a brain damaged fighter could last 15 rounds with Shavers and even not have to go to the ICU for weeks after the fight is saying something, let alone that he somehow impressed the judges at ringside enough to win a decision.

 

[multivita-man]

None of those guys fought like Tyson. I dont think you are well versed enough for this conversation.

Tyson wanted to quit on his stool against Lennox Lewis. Honestly, Mike Tyson is damn lucky he didn't get killed in the ring that night. Lewis could have killed him.

 

[Godboy]

oh give me a break....who the fuck are you?.....

For you to say what you said, I already know that you arent well versed in combat sports. "Well those guys punched hard too and they couldnt beat him, so how could Tyson?" Thats the kind of thing that newbs and casual fans say. Im not wrong and you know it. I have debated combat sports for like 15 years (not here) and i know a newb when i see one. There is nothing wrong with being a newb, but you arent qualified to debate this.

 

[Godboy]

Tyson wanted to quit on his stool against Lennox Lewis. Honestly, Mike Tyson is damn lucky he didn't get killed in the ring that night. Lewis could have killed him.

Well when you do a bunch of coke throughout your fight camp and skip most of the training, you get tired. End career Tyson was still better than end career Ali. Prime Tyson smashes prime Ali too.

 

[Harry Dresden]

For you to say what you said, I already know that you arent well versed in combat sports. "Well those guys punched hard too and they couldnt beat him, so how could Tyson?" Thats the kind of thing that newbs and casual fans say. Im not wrong and you know it. I have debated combat sports for like 15 years (not here) and i know a newb when i see one. There is nothing wrong with being a newb, but you arent qualified to debate this.

you can be anything on the internet chump.....even a die hard Tyson fan.....if you have debated combat sports for only 15 years then you are the newbie here....

 

[multivita-man]

Well when you do a bunch of coke throughout your fight camp and skip most of the training, you get tired. End career Tyson was still better than end career Ali. Prime Tyson smashes prime Ali too.

You're living in a different universe.

Explain to me how Tyson, who got knocked out by a bulked-up light heavyweight in Evander Holyfield and nearly got his head knocked off by Lennox Lewis survives against someone who is naturally bigger than Holyfield and a better pure boxer than Lewis. Ali defeated George Foreman in his prime - the same guy that Mike Tyson ducked when Foreman was 40-fucking-2. Seriously, read up on some boxing history before you post.

 

[rightwinger]

For you to say what you said, I already know that you arent well versed in combat sports. "Well those guys punched hard too and they couldnt beat him, so how could Tyson?" Thats the kind of thing that newbs and casual fans say. Im not wrong and you know it. I have debated combat sports for like 15 years (not here) and i know a newb when i see one. There is nothing wrong with being a newb, but you arent qualified to debate this.

Ali beat sluggers who the experts predicted could literally kill him
Against Liston and Foreman, they feared for his health.

Ali had a way of figuring you out. He would not have had a hard time figuring out Tyson. He was very predictable.

Ali would have frustrated him in the early rounds and Tyson would be spent

 

[Godboy]

you can be anything on the internet chump.....even a die hard Tyson fan.....if you have debated combat sports for only 15 years then you are the newbie here....

Oh? And what combat sports websites are YOU a member of? Actually, fuck all that. Explain to us your original comment. Go into detail about why Tyson would have the same result as those other guys. Lets see what youve got. Maybe i was wrong. Now is your chance to prove it.

 

[Godboy]

You're living in a different universe.

Explain to me how Tyson, who got knocked out by a bulked-up light heavyweight in Evander Holyfield and nearly got his head knocked off by Lennox Lewis survives against someone who is naturally bigger than Holyfield and a better pure boxer than Lewis. Ali defeated George Foreman in his prime - the same guy that Mike Tyson ducked when Foreman was 40-fucking-2. Seriously, read up on some boxing history before you post.

You keep talking about end career Tyson. He did blow throughout ALL those training camps and barely showed up to train. He was a completely different fighter at that point. All he did was head hunt and he lost all of his defensive movement. Quit using those examples. Talk to me about his performances when he was 20 years old.

 

[Godboy]

Ali beat sluggers who the experts predicted could literally kill him
Against Liston and Foreman, they feared for his health.

Ali had a way of figuring you out. He would not have had a hard time figuring out Tyson. He was very predictable.

Ali would have frustrated him in the early rounds and Tyson would be spent

If Tyson was so predictable, he wouldnt have been named "The Baddest Man on the Planet". He was flatlining EVERYONE! Quickly.

 

[multivita-man]

You keep talking about end career Tyson. He did blow throughout ALL those training camps and barely showed up to train. He was a completely different fighter at that point. All he did was head hunt and he lost all of his defensive movement. Quit using those examples. Talk to me about his performances when he was 20 years old.

Pathetic. All fighters have their peaks and their declines. Muhammad Ali was in jail and out of boxing in his prime. He didn't lose until after his come back to boxing, unlike Iron Tyke who got the shit knocked out of him by a no-name blubber king from Columbus, Ohio.

 

[multivita-man]

If Tyson was so predictable, he wouldnt have been named "The Baddest Man on the Planet". He was flatlining EVERYONE! Quickly.

Past their primes, and they were stand-up, trade blows punchers. They were not great boxers. Larry Holmes *was* a world class boxer, but shit, Tyson fought him when he was 30-fucking-9.

 

[rightwinger]

If Tyson was so predictable, he wouldnt have been named "The Baddest Man on the Planet". He was flatlining EVERYONE! Quickly.

Those fighters were beaten before they stepped in the ring

Ali would not be afraid of him and could take a punch
Ali could fight a war for 15 rounds
Tyson would quit if he didn’t get an early knockout

 

[Godboy]

Pathetic. All fighters have their peaks and their declines. Muhammad Ali was in jail and out of boxing in his prime. He didn't lose until after his come back to boxing, unlike Iron Tyke who got the shit knocked out of him by a no-name blubber king from Columbus, Ohio.

Would you accept arguments from me if i was using Ali's last 3 fights as examples of his prowess? Of course not.

 

[multivita-man]

Those fighters were beaten before they stepped in the ring

Ali would not be afraid of him and could take a punch
Ali could fight a war for 15 rounds
Tyson would quit if he didn’t get an early knockout

Not only that they just weren't all that. They were tough guys - I'll give them that. They were badasses in terms of balls. They had balls of steel - that I will concede. But that was 80s boxing: stand in there and just bang the fuck out of each other. But it wasn't good boxing, and that's why Cus D'Amato was able to turn Tyson into a champion at just the right time. Tony Tucker. Tony Tubbs. James Smith. Marvis Frazier. Trevor Berbick. I mean these were guys that just stood there and banged each other, and none of them had ever seen an athlete like Tyson. But the fighters of the 70s and 90s most definitely had.