Air Power and 21st Century Applications

[Mushroom]

@Stryder50 what exactly are you saying? because they are getting rid of A10s, that is ruining their ability to perform CAS?? ...the new aircraft can do that

Nowhere near to the same degree. The payload of an A-10 is very different than any of the F-35 variants. And of all of them, the F-35B is the one that is probably the greatest use for CAS as that was a requirement of the Marines.

This is why the Army off and on for years had threatened to bring back an "Army Air Corps II", as the Air Force is mandated to provide them an effective CAS aircraft. It does not matter what they want, they have to do it. And if they fail, the Army has the right to operate their own. A lot of aircraft can perfrom CAS, but not all of them can perform it efficiently and in the manner needed.

 

[harmonica]

Nowhere near to the same degree. The payload of an A-10 is very different than any of the F-35 variants. And of all of them, the F-35B is the one that is probably the greatest use for CAS as that was a requirement of the Marines.

This is why the Army off and on for years had threatened to bring back an "Army Air Corps II", as the Air Force is mandated to provide them an effective CAS aircraft. It does not matter what they want, they have to do it. And if they fail, the Army has the right to operate their own. A lot of aircraft can perfrom CAS, but not all of them can perform it efficiently and in the manner needed.

aren't the military on these boards that choose their weapons?

 

[Dayton3]

what??!!!

The aircraft in question might well be assigned CAS missions.

But that in no way means they will be effective at it.

 

[harmonica]

The aircraft in question might well be assigned CAS missions.

But that in no way means they will be effective at it.

doesn't mean they won't

 

[harmonica]

The aircraft in question might well be assigned CAS missions.

But that in no way means they will be effective at it.

--F4 Phantom was designed as a fighter but used for CAS
--Israel used F16s to bomb Iraq's nuke plant..from what, I read all but 2 bombs hit -that was 1981!!!!!
--etc

 

[Dayton3]

--F4 Phantom was designed as a fighter but used for CAS
--Israel used F16s to bomb Iraq's nuke plant..from what, I read all but 2 bombs hit -that was 1981!!!!!
--etc

Bombing nuclear sites is NOT CAS.

 

[harmonica]

Bombing nuclear sites is NOT CAS.

1. that was 1981
2. F4s did the job and that was a decade BEFORE the 16s = the 16s are more accurate than the F4s

 

[Dayton3]

1. that was 1981
2. F4s did the job and that was a decade BEFORE the 16s = the 16s are more accurate than the F4s

Accuracy is not the most important factor in Close Air Support.

 

[Mushroom]

F4s did the job and that was a decade BEFORE the 16s = the 16s are more accurate than the F4s

Does not matter. The AC-130 can do CAS also, but that is not the mission of the aircraft.

And if you have nothing else available, you use what you have. But using an F-4 as CAS was because they had no choice.

The actual CAS aircraft for that war was the A-4, not the F-4. You use what you have, but you are always better off with an aircraft specifically tailored to the role that it is needed for. Hell, theoretically you can use a B-52 for CAS. Does not mean it would be good at it.

 

[harmonica]

Does not matter. The AC-130 can do CAS also, but that is not the mission of the aircraft.

And if you have nothing else available, you use what you have. But using an F-4 as CAS was because they had no choice.

The actual CAS aircraft for that war was the A-4, not the F-4. You use what you have, but you are always better off with an aircraft specifically tailored to the role that it is needed for. Hell, theoretically you can use a B-52 for CAS. Does not mean it would be good at it.

does not matter......these are not 1960s aircraft.....if F4s could do the job, these are better
..point being if F4s could do it, modern aircraft will do it MUCH better
..I'm listening to Fighter Pilot Podcast.......an F18 pilot talks about all kinds of air warfare......they talk about CAS support/A10s/etc --all that stuff.....the newer aircraft are BETTER than the F/A 18s

 

[harmonica]

Accuracy is not the most important factor in Close Air Support.

WHAT???????!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[harmonica]

Does not matter. The AC-130 can do CAS also, but that is not the mission of the aircraft.

And if you have nothing else available, you use what you have. But using an F-4 as CAS was because they had no choice.

The actual CAS aircraft for that war was the A-4, not the F-4. You use what you have, but you are always better off with an aircraft specifically tailored to the role that it is needed for. Hell, theoretically you can use a B-52 for CAS. Does not mean it would be good at it.

well--let me tell you something--the B52 wasn't designed for CAS--but they used it for that in Afghanistan......and it worked well ....
...this isn't 1965--they have laser guided/etc munitions
..AND the BUF can carry more munitions ..if they can get it done, SURELY the new jets can

âOld warriorâ B-52 gets call in Afghanistan

The U.S. military has called on a few of its oldest warriors to the fight in a recent series of offensive actions in Afghanistan.

www.stripes.com

 

[harmonica]

Does not matter. The AC-130 can do CAS also, but that is not the mission of the aircraft.

And if you have nothing else available, you use what you have. But using an F-4 as CAS was because they had no choice.

The actual CAS aircraft for that war was the A-4, not the F-4. You use what you have, but you are always better off with an aircraft specifically tailored to the role that it is needed for. Hell, theoretically you can use a B-52 for CAS. Does not mean it would be good at it.

F4s were used for CAS
etc many links

F-4 Close Air Support Combat Missions 1972

Richard Keyt describes his typical F-4 close air support mission helping troops in contact with the enemy in the Vietnam War.

www.f-4phantom.com

Remembering VMFA-122 'F-4V', the USMC Phantom II featuring a unique Three Gun-Pod Configuration - The Aviation Geek Club

VMFA-122's armament team devised a three gun-pod wiring configuration for F-4B BuNo 148378 (dubbed the `F-4V' in honour of squadron CO, Lt Col John M Verdi)

theaviationgeekclub.com

 

[harmonica]

..I'd say 10 yards is close enough

JDAM (Joint Direct Attack Munition) | Encyclopedia.com

JDAM (Joint Direct Attack Munition) The Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) is a satellite-guided "smart" bomb capable of accurate and high-precision strikes in any weather. JDAM munitions have found increasing use in military missions and the use of precision bombs exceeded 80 percent in the...

www.encyclopedia.com

 

[Mushroom]

F4s could do the job, these are better

OK, that makes absolutely no sense. "If it can do the job, it is better".

You can use a baseball bat to kill a fly. That does not make it better than a flyswatter. The F-4 is not a CAS aircraft. I don't care what word games you try to do, absolutely no multi-role aircraft is ever going to be as good at any role as a dedicated aircraft is.

Oh, and an F/A-18 IS a CAS aircraft. Primarily in the hands of the Marines, they use a different loadout, and are trained and the jets are adapted to operate in a dedicated CAS role. Hence, the very designation "F/A" in the first place.

However, if possible they would still use a dedicated CAS aircraft, like the AV8B.

The letters with the numbers, they really do have a purpose and meaning. And your trying to jump from one branch to a completely different one was rather obvious.

 

[HenryBHough]

A government built on surrender and capitulation, like Xidenmerica, has absolutely NO need for an air force.

 

[Mushroom]

F4s were used for CAS

I never said they were not.

But the preferred CAS aircraft was the A-4.

Is it really that hard of a concept to understand?

 

[harmonica]

I never said they were not.

But the preferred CAS aircraft was the A-4.

Is it really that hard of a concept to understand?

hahahhahahahahahhahahah!!woooohoo
godamn --I said it in the other post---is it really that hard for you to comprehend basic English:
if the F4s were used for CAS, SURELY the new aircraft can perform CAS much BETTER/effectively !!!!!

 

[Mushroom]

I'd say 10 yards is close enough

Bombs are not preferred for CAS. Too many variables, guns and small missiles are the preferred munitions for a CAS role.

Hence, the A-10. With over 1,000 rounds of 30mm and a lot of 70mm rockets (from 40-80 of them). Dropping bombs on a danger close enemy is only used as a last resort.

The Hyrda 70 is the main rocket used on the A-10. A 70mm rocket fired from pods, they only have a 10 pound explosive charge, and a blast radius of around 10 meters.

The JDAM is accurate, but I still don't want one used to lob a 500 pound bomb anywhere even close to my position.

 

[harmonica]

Bombs are not preferred for CAS. Too many variables, guns and small missiles are the preferred munitions for a CAS role.

Hence, the A-10. With over 1,000 rounds of 30mm and a lot of 70mm rockets (from 40-80 of them). Dropping bombs on a danger close enemy is only used as a last resort.

The Hyrda 70 is the main rocket used on the A-10. A 70mm rocket fired from pods, they only have a 10 pound explosive charge, and a blast radius of around 10 meters.

The JDAM is accurate, but I still don't want one used to lob a 500 pound bomb anywhere even close to my position.

plain and SIMPLE--today's aircraft can perform CAS accurately