After Iraq would should we attack

[amish1]

So in truth it is not the soldiers fault. But Kim Jong Il is a bad dude. He once bombed an Airport which killed 115 people.

We should send troups to coup him, help find a "GOOD" Korean to control, and provide humanitarian physcological treatment for not only NK, but Afghanis, Iraqis, and Haitians.

Kim sent 100000 NK AGENT INTO CHINA TO KILL SK MISSIONARIES. HE WAS ALSO BEHIND MASS KIDNAPPING OF JAPANESE AND SK SCIENTISTS, WORKERS, AND INNOCENCE SOLDIERS.

 

[Johnney]

there is no doubt hes a bad man, not at all.

 

[amish1]

Who else do you think is evil? What other places should be attacked?

 

[Lefty Wilbury]

California. the battle for berkly should be interesting

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by Lefty Wilbury
California. the battle for berkly should be interesting

We could just pelt them with styrofoam and watch them whither with pain.

 

[Lefty Wilbury]

should have a bar b que and watch their vegan heads explode.

 

[amish1]

Sorry ma'am. I forgot Iraqi teens had to be in bed my 10:00. Why are you up? seniors should be sleeping by 9:00. Makes the bones feel good. Just because I'm thirteen, doesn't mean I can't like this stuff. I'm not some air head "OMG! little toddler." I care about war, and personally think other teens should care more. My whole family was in war. I know the reality of fighting, but I think freedom should be fought for. And if this was the Civil War, and there was a teenage draft, you bet you French Ass I would join the cause. If we are uneducated, we will be taken over my a third world country, like France.

:clap1:

 

[kcmcdonald]

I guess my question...and problem with the carpet bombing would be ...why should we punish the common folks because of the blind leadership of Kim jongII the crazy one? If it comes to it..take him and his croonies out with smart bombs...the common folks have suffered long enough.

I would agree with this however the people of NK will NEVER welcome us with open arms. It won't happen. We need to be bad guys about this, the population is just as guilty as the leadership in all crimes. It may seem unfair but these people will not welcome liberation they will fight to the last man women and child. We need ot break the will to fight in every person in the country. That means carpet bombing. destroy civikian moral and they will hide and not fight. then after the smoke clears we come in and rebuild the country, yes we will be seen as barbarians for a while but when the capital becomes another Souel we will be thanked. It is a lot like Japan in WW2. We need to break the backs of the civilian population. The good of the many outwiegh the good of the few. i.e we would save more lives by carpet bombing than by coming in with troops and killing every thing that shot at us.

 

[amish1]

The people of NK and Iraq are acting like a mother oppossum. when it feels threatened it attackes, even when it is being helped.

 

[The Beaver]

All three. I think we still have 3 nukes left in our arsenal. If not we can invade NKorea and take theirs. I have looked into leasing the Enola Gay from the Smithsonian. Their only concern is that I have it returned by June 6th.

:ali:

 

[steet]

Hmmm, I feel like a virgin here.
Yeah peeps.....struggling to come to terms with this thread to be honest. Have just been watching the news (Spain's democratically elected new prime minister wants to pull out of Iraq - by the way - and pro-coalition people are making noises about how this will send a clear message of retreat to Al Qaida) and i'm all hot and fired on this War on Terror issue in a way I haven't been since I marched on my nation's capital almost a year ago to the day.
Here in Britain, the post-war posturing goes on and on, inquiry after inquiry, Tony Blair capitalising on the fear factor, MPs trying to make us (the coalition of the UNWILLING - over half of my fellow countrymen who refuse to forget that Bush and Blair have a lot of blood on their hands) aware of the need to show steely resolve in the face of impending doom and countless late-night debates in which politicians attempt to level with us, the little people.
Europe has just had its wake up call. March 11th (exactly 911 days after 9/11) was the day Al Qaida (who else could it be?)upped the stakes. We have increased security somewhat here in the UK but we also (like Spain) have a general election just around the corner. We pretty much know we are in the frontline now. It's not a matter of if, but when.
What is really beginning to raise my heckles is the generally huge mess we have all gotten ourselves into. I have my own reasons as to why I believe in my heart of hearts that invading Iraq was completely, inarguably the wrong thing to do, and I'm not changing my opinions on that for anyone so save your breath. I just wish (in a sad fantasist way) that it never happened. We wouldn't be facing another diplomatic row and we wouldn't have so much posturing self-justifying speeches ('like this one' I hear you cry) to sit through. It's worth noting that the incoming socialist party in Spain have always opposed Aznar's policy on Iraq, but try telling that to your average fanatical madman. I sigh. I am reminded of King Theoden's line in The Lord Of The Rings; 'What can men do against such reckless hate?'
Indeed, what can we do? I recognise the need to stay in Iraq now, the war has happened and we cannot cut and run, not like last time. Civilian deaths have nearly equalled three times the amount of innocents killed on 9/11 and we can't leave them to tear each other apart, the fundamentalists would like that. Iraq's regime never had a proven link to Al Qaida (yes my distant anglo-saxon cousins, that WAS just a feeble Bushist attempt at brainwashing) but thanks to the War on (T)errorism, Iraq now has fundamentalist groups within its borders. Nice one.
My government lied to me, they told me Saddam had an arsenal of armaggeddon and could unleash hell with just 45-minutes notice. They used £3.5 billion of public money (including mine) to invade a Sovereign state and to murder people, young people like myself, young people with similar hopes and dreams, and yet they've just told us that they can no longer find the money to fund universities and that students must foot the bill and begin their professional lives in crippling debt. Excuse me, but what the f**k is all that about? This is meant to be a Labour government....
Hey, sorry, I'm turning this post into a shitlist. I'm sure anyone (who hasn't lost their power of judgement yet) would feel as let down as me, right?
Iraq is being dragged into the political aftermath of the Madrid bombings, and rightly so. It hangs like an albatross around the western world's neck. The mad arabs who set out to murder as many people as possible the other morning will probably see the shift in Spain's Iraq policy as a victory, a palpable hit. Even so, if over half the country's people didn't agree with that policy of invasion in the first place and their (DEMOCRATICALLY) elected new leader, who has always represented that view of the Spanish majority, decides to implicate that....then surely we are just witnessing democracy itself. Democracy isn't imposed through bombing campaigns, it is really a phenomenon of the 'civilised' world that happens almost naturally.
You see, what we have here is a monumental quagmire of splits, contradictions and failed ideals. Which brings me to the War On Terror itself and, hence, to the gung-ho nature of some of the postings I have read on this thread. I have a problem with what we are trying to achieve. Look at the Isreali situation, the story so far. Young Palestinian men (frustrated with having no social/political/geographical identity) throw stones at young Isreali men (whose race has been subject to persecution since before Exodus)...Young Isreali men fire a few rounds of gunfire and spill Arab blood...angry Palestinian men retaliate by embracing extremist methods, taping explosives to their chests and detonating themselves on buses full of Jews...Isreali government retaliates by entering the town of the dead suicide bomber in a tank and by levelling the family home, not to mention the neighbours's aswell.
Imagine if this snowball effect was to spread itself out across the entire world....well, bad news folks, it already has.
As a spectator to all of this, and remember, this is just my opinion so don't take it as Gospel, I can only say that I don't think there can be such a thing as a war on Terrorism. Terrorism is an abstract term; It's general....no hang on, it's much, much too general. Like drugs. A 'war on drugs' is destined to fail because 'drugs' is just a word and says little about the causes of drug abuse and the people who abuse drugs. Terrorism is a word we use to describe the actions of those who wish to scare the living crap out of us. Terrorism is the epitomy of 21st century fear and subsequent paranoia. It's not helpful to lump all of these splinter groups together; Al Qaida, ETA, IRA etc, because in order to defeat them we must first understand them. Most, or all, of the 9/11 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia. If this were truly a just war against the perpetrators then shouldn't we have started there?
I just have a problem with people saying 'Maybe we should bomb here next' or we should 'definitely go after them next', as if the concept of carpet-bombing a country because it houses a few bad people has little or no human costs or connotations. Surely if you were from an Arab state and you lived down the road from a paracetamol factory in which a loved one worked that was bombed by the allies (suspected chemical weapons lab) then you would probably view comments like those as a form of terrorism. At this point, it's worth quoting Mahatma Ghandi (who incidentally drove the oppresive empire of my forefathers from Indian soil without firing a single weapon) as saying: 'An eye for an eye will make us all blind'.
These madmen who move in shadows through our society are inhuman bastards who would sooner shoot me through the eye then listen to me, even though I frequently take a moral stand on the plight of the Arab people. And yes, they should be hunted down and brought to justice through intelligence gathering, investigation and public vigilance. Remember, they are always looking for more reasons to hate the West, so another war against a third-world Arabic state would not only waste more money and kill more women and children, but it would recruit more terrorists (most of whom like to come and plot their bloody deeds in Britain, thank you very much) and destabilise this mess further.
The war in Iraq has just intensified things and has clouded diplomatic relations (particularly between the US and Europe) when we know we should all be standing united against this great test. I know there's nothing we can do now, and I (like millions of other English patriots) must get over it, but I am not comforted by people like Donald Rumsfeld. And I can't stop thinking about that oil pipeline in Afghanistan, and Cheney, and Halliburton and the connections between the Bush oil dynasty and the Saudi royals. And I worry about another misguided war. My country is in the frontline, I am in London next week to attend a training course and i'm pretty nervous (despite the small likelihood that I will be blown to shreds by a bomb on the tube) which means that the terrorists are getting to me. I want them defeated, believe me, but please, as a rational people, urge your leaders not to get away with starting another fight. You have power, there is more of you then there are in the war cabinet. It might just save my life, or yours.

Oh and PS: North Korea would be World War III, and you'd be mad to want that. It's your children, think about it!

 

[MtnBiker]

Originally posted by Lefty Wilbury
should have a bar b que and watch their vegan heads explode.

:teeth:

 

[amish1]

Actually, homie, It is my future. I am a 13 year old. And I, as well as most of my friends are ready to fight for freedom. Instead of using your time whinig about Bush, why don't you work on WWII. Hitler killed 8 million people. Look at that. Osama killed 3.5 thousand. Hello, wake up. i am not saying go on a rampage of fighting but, you have to admit, Kim Jong Il is bad. What religion are you. In Iraq, if you were any thing but Muslim, and you proclained it, you were shot. Coalition forces found Tigers in cages, littered with David's Star and Cross necklaces. Oh, and you say that is not cruel. Bush is not a killer. I think you need to get your facts straight.

 

[jon_forward]

EGADS!!! theres liberals in England...

 

[amish1]

Are you talking to me or the Protester?

 

[jon_forward]

only if you are in england

 

[steet]

Originally posted by amish1
Actually, homie, It is my future. I am a 13 year old. And I, as well as most of my friends are ready to fight for freedom. Instead of using your time whinig about Bush, why don't you work on WWII. Hitler killed 8 million people. Look at that. Osama killed 3.5 thousand. Hello, wake up. i am not saying go on a rampage of fighting but, you have to admit, Kim Jong Il is bad. What religion are you. In Iraq, if you were any thing but Muslim, and you proclained it, you were shot. Coalition forces found Tigers in cages, littered with David's Star and Cross necklaces. Oh, and you say that is not cruel. Bush is not a killer. I think you need to get your facts straight.

Easy tiger (sorry about the pun) but I am neither anti-american or a bleeding heart liberal. You should re-read my post, and then you should check out a few articles on www.guardianunlimited.co.uk, which is the website for the most objective newspaper in the UK. Well, it is about the only one not owned by Rupert Murdoch and not spouting anti-muslim propaganda (he owns the Fox Corporation by the way) every two seconds.
So you and your 13-year old buddies (vaguely disturbing) are ready to fight for freedom, eh? What freedom? You already have it mate! You have so much more freedom as an American, then so many other people in the darker corners of this world. Yes, Saddam's regime was oppressive and terrible, he was a murderous bastard. But (if we're talking cold hard facts here - and me not getting them right) then we should also remember that his gassing of the Kurds before Bush Snr's war was funded by the US. We gave him chemical weapons and aid and told him to go and kill shitloads of Iranian people, this is FACT, there is a picture (that is quite famous here in the UK) of Rumsfeld shaking Saddam's hand right before the friggin' deal was made....but I guess you don't see that kind of stuff on the Fox network do you?
Religion. Why does that matter? What if i'm a good christian then I should support Bush? That is Newspeak, i'm afraid. I was baptised, and I believe very much in Jesus's radical moral teachings of forgiveness and love. I just have a problem with the amount of people that have lost their lives to crusades undertaken in his name. This has driven me to the secular utopia I nowadays inhabit. I believe in playing rock 'n' roll music as a vehicle to communicate my concerns, pre-marital sex (why not, it's fun after all), occasional dope-smoking and keeping my friends happy. And no, I don't worry about hell, because Evangelists threaten it with so much fire and brimstone that I can't help but see it as a tool of mind control. And yes, I'm lucky to have these freedoms, and if I were an Iraqi i'd probably be long dead. But i'm not, I can only stand back and watch as mindless terrorists threaten my little England.
You must remember that these countries are so far removed from our western cultures and are still developing at a pace that is so far behind us, that they are virtually alien. It's only because of business (see oil) ties that the administration leading your country
takes an active interest in them. Some of the younger peoples in these places would desperately love the freedoms available to you and I. But whose to say that it is America's business to police them and take out regimes. If bombs started falling in and around where you live, you'd be hard pressed to say 'Oh freedom's coming and it feels great!'. If on your way to school you had to avert your eyes from the severed limbs and body parts strewn in the gutter.
And as for WW2, don't go there my friend. Bush comparing Blair to Churchill is as stomach-churningly pugilent as him using images of the innocent dead (9/11) to bolster his re-election campaign. Hitler invaded Poland and began to kill off a whole race. We had no choice but to fight. My grandfathers both fought because the Nazis were on our doorstep and would have enslaved us. Men died so I could write this today, and I have never been anything but eternally grateful. My closest grandfather died a month and a a half ago and at his cremation his coffin was adorned with medals of bravery.I wept like a baby at the funeral, because, right up to the day of his passing he would watch the news and curse what he saw as a pointless war founded on lies and secret business agendas. And he knows what it's like see a best friend take a bullet in the face for the sake of a greater good. He knows more about the real nature of war than you and I could possibly imagine.
Yeah lil' Kim (NK) is slightly worrying, but they are a country stooped in a long history of anti-Americanism. They'll be alright as long as the US promises not to pick a fight.
You should look at the wider implications of things. America is not the world, i'm afraid to inform you. And no, i'm NOT anti-american. I love American culture; i'm a big fan of the Detroit music scene, and I read more American literature then anything else because I believe it to be the best, and I think your country has inspired some great thinkers (although summing up your post i'd guess you'd disagree with most of my choices) and artists. I just think Bush has got it wrong with his foreign policy and so do over half of the population of the British Isles. And that's quite a lot of people. Plus, what sort of allies are we in this war, when most of our residents don't agree with it?

PS 'Bush is not a killer'. Well, he did sign away the lives of more death row inmates than any other governor in American history when he held the Texan office. Including a guy with the mental age of six, oh and he defended that by calling it 'God's work'.
There you go my learned friend, that is pretty much a summation of everything I feel about your 'President' and the abuse of Christianity in two sentences.
Turn off your TV and do some f**king reading before you lose your power of Judgement. Remember, if there is a God, He's watching you!

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by steet
PS 'Bush is not a killer'. Well, he did sign away the lives of more death row inmates than any other governor in American history when he held the Texan office.

No he didn't, the court system did. As governor, the only rights he had was to stay executions. He neither signed the death warrants nor executed them.

The criminals that commited their heinous crimes worthy of the death penalty have signed their own death warrants.

 

[amish1]

For one my "buddies" are not homos. I don't watch Fox. I watch CNN. I have a 12.5 grade reading level. Homie. I am not referring to American freedom, I mean freedom for all the six year old Sudanese children who are forced to carry three hundred bricks a day, for about $.5 I am tired of heartless sons of female dogs, taking over some of the formally best nations, and turning it into an insane killing machine, not to mention all the whores they kill when they are done with them.

 

[steet]

Okay, so I may have exaggerated the logistics, but when one woman pleaded for clemency, he mimicked her in a TV interview: 'Please don't kill me' in a feeble voice.
There's good-taste and there's....well there's Bush.

On an argumentative/'taunt the neo-con' note:
If the death penalty is such a good deterrent, why do so many Americans kill each other? Are some of you just de-sensitised to violence through watching your leaders threaten it so liberally around the world?