Starmer speaks with trump and Zelenskyy after WH row

[Sherlock Holmes]

I dont agree that the Pals are entitled to murder Israeli’s in cold blood

Right, but is that what I asked you though?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Certainly do, back in 2016 the lefties and people just like you said he would
get the US into a world war. No wars were started by him, No one try to invade
while he was president.

Did you know that trump killed more civilians during his first administration than Obama did?

he said he wanted to stop the deaths in this recent war,
he tried to put together a plan for a truce, Z man didn't want that, he just wanted
an advantage to the war, Trump wasn't going to play that game.

He's unable to stop the war though, that's clear from the way he won't engage with NATO. Right now all the other NATO members are pledging to support Ukraine so how can the war end unless he brings the rest of NAT around?

Zelensky refuses to sign the agreement because it offers him nothing, else he'd sign it. Trump refuses to commit to providing security for Ukraine so all the "deal" does is provide huge material resources to the US and nothing else, only a fool would sign such a thing, no country would allow its president to agree to those terms, would you expect the US to agree to such terms in such a situation?

I hope that helps you
understand.

It helps me understand that you're naive.

You can't give me any reason at all why Trump would want to stop the war in Ukraine, why not just say "no more weapons from us" and be done? trump could do that at any time, just sign an executive order to cease and desist with all military support for Ukraine, but he wont.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

trump simply cannot stop the Ukraine war, he has no power, no leverage. Unless every other NATO member refuses to defend Ukraine, trump is just pissing in the wind like the lame duck that he is.

The reason he ganged up on Zelensky yesterday is he cannot admit that he failed, so he has to blame someone else, trump is as easy to read as a children's book, he's so predictable and simple minded.

I wonder what his next failure will be? the price of eggs? inflation? measles? bird flu? he waffles all the time about U-fucking-kraine, making a huge drama out of it, when he should be attending to pressing domestic issues.

Maybe President Musk will take care of us.

 

[Crepitus]

There you go, kicking the can down the road. I can only surmise you don't have a plan.

I don't actually care what you "surmise".

 

[Mac-7]

Right, but is that what I asked you though?

Murder is what Pals call self defense

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Murder is what Pals call self defense

OK very well, so to answer your question: no, Ukraine has no right to defend itself after threatening Russia as it did. Russia has defended itself preemptively something the US has always based its foreign policy on like when it invaded Vietnam claiming it was a preemptive war against a Soviet communist threat.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I must say, I do miss the cold war, it was interesting to me as a kid and young man and led to some excellent movies.



If the United States had not bankrupted the Soviet Union with the arms race, we might have maintained that status quo, one where we were all safe, unlike today.

 

[Mac-7]

OK very well, so to answer your question: no, Ukraine has no right to defend itself after threatening Russia as it did.

Thats really insane

russia is much larger and more powerful than Ukraine

Everyone from Putin to Biden expected russia to overrun all of Ukraine in a very short time

Easy pickins for the former Soviet Union

But just like the Fins in the Winter War the Cossacks failed to live up to the hype

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Thats really insane

Provoking Russia was insane, I totally agree.

russia is much larger and more powerful than Ukraine

Ukraine had a large military and lots of weapons and intelligence from all of the NATO countries before Russia attacked.

Everyone from Putin to Biden expected russia to overrun all of Ukraine in a very short time

No they didn't, else why would they provoke Russia as they did? They wanted to drain Russia, wear it down, nobody thought it would be a short war with Russia winning else they would not have provoked Russia by arming Ukraine and talking about NATO membership all the time.

Easy pickins for the former Soviet Union

Not when over fifty countries have been sending bombs, planes, tanks, guns, bullets, missiles, drones etc to Ukraine.

But just like the Fins in the Winter War the Cossacks failed to live up to the hype

Russia has (almost) single handedly been fighting against the collective resources of over fifty developed nations for three years and has not lost the war - that's beyond impressive.

 

[Mac-7]

Ukraine had a large military and lots of weapons and intelligence from all of the NATO countries before Russia attacked.

Nonsense

Russia was a much larger and more powerful military on paper

I bet putin expected a quick victory

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Nonsense

Russia was a much larger and more powerful military on paper

I bet putin expected a quick victory

I have no idea what Putin expected but Biden and Ukraine did not expect a quick Russian victory else they would not have acted as they did to provoke the conflict. Recall that Russia made many suggestions to the US and Ukraine and NATO about deescalating the tensions, it asked - several times - for Ukraine to stop seeking NATO membership for example but this were dismissed out of hand by the West.

The collective decision making by the West was to continually provoke Russian aggression, they kept poking the bear with a big stick, one does not do that if they expect the bear will kill them, you only do that if you have reason to believe you will overcome the bear and prevail.

Zelensky is responsible for the deaths of huge numbers of Ukrainians.

 

[Mac-7]

I have no idea what Putin expected

I expected greater powers of deduction from Sherlock Holmes

Maybe you think putin expected a long, bloody and expensive war?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

I expected greater powers of deduction from Sherlock Holmes

Maybe you think putin expected a long, bloody and expensive war?

As I said I do not know what Putin expected, I suppose he at least expected to not lose though.

Look at the history, US state dep't records and you'll see Russia warned NATO many years ago, that if NATO began to encroach along the Russian border states, then Russia would sooner or later start to mass troops along its border, I've seen the meeting minutes were this was said.

So there was no surprise when Russia attacked Ukraine, it had made it clear (even before Putin) that it would regard NATO encroachment as an existential threat yet the West disregarded this and carried on. Putin repeatedly tried to deescalate by asking NATO to abandon plans for Ukraine membership but was ignored, dismissed out of hand.

Now we have a US that can no longer afford to play these military games and a Europe that's panicking because the US is walking away from NATO, all of this is not Russia's doing, it is self inflicted.

The US is abandoning its allies of 75 years and will never be trusted again as an ally, so if trump expects Europe to play a part in countering a Chinese invasion of Taiwan he's in for a surprise.

trump's entire modus operandi is "we are boss" and "our help is needed by others but we don't need their help" so when the time comes and the US needs help, he won't get it, this is the price he will pay for abandoning his allies.

 

[Nobody911]

Will Trump make America or Russia great again? It seems he prefers the latter. Trump's kissing Putin's ass? lol.

The capability of the EU and UK to deal with Putin's Russia is complex and involves several factors:

Military Capabilities

Current State: Europe faces significant challenges in deterring a Russian attack without U.S. support. It would require substantial increases in military spending and coordination. For instance, Europe might need an additional 300,000 troops and significant investments in defense equipment, such as tanks and artillery, to match the scale of potential Russian aggression.

NATO Role: The UK emphasizes the importance of NATO, with Prime Minister Keir Starmer advocating for increased European contributions to bolster NATO's capabilities. However, European military forces are fragmented, and coordination issues could hinder effective deterrence.

Economic Measures

Sanctions: The EU and UK have implemented robust sanctions against Russia, targeting sectors like energy, trade, and finance. These measures aim to weaken Russia's economy and limit its military capabilities.

Economic Resilience: Europe's economic resilience is crucial in countering Russian aggression. However, the effectiveness of sanctions depends on maintaining international cooperation and avoiding circumvention tactics by Russia.

Diplomatic Efforts

Unity and Coordination: European unity is essential for effectively dealing with Putin. The EU and UK must work together to present a united front against Russian aggression and support Ukraine.

Peace Negotiations: Europe needs to develop its own strategy for peace in Ukraine, as reliance on U.S. leadership is uncertain. This involves filling the diplomatic vacuum and influencing negotiations with Putin.

Conclusion

While the EU and UK have some capabilities to counter Putin's Russia, they face significant challenges. These include the need for increased military coordination, maintaining economic sanctions, and developing a unified diplomatic strategy. Without U.S. support, Europe must enhance its own defense capabilities and diplomatic efforts to effectively address the Russian threat.

sources:
1. Defending Europe without the US: first estimates of what is needed
2. New Sanctions Announced by EU and UK on the Third Anniversary of Russia’s Invasion of Ukraine | Insights | Ropes & Gray LLP
3. https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/ukraine-a-wake-up-call-lords-committee-report-debate/
4. Can Europe confront Vladimir Putin’s Russia on its own?
5. Zelenskyy embraced by British PM Starmer a day after clashing with Trump
6. https://www.chathamhouse.org/2025/0...ce-ukraine-and-rouse-its-people-threat-russia
7. Europe's Nightmare Is Here: They Have to Fight Putin Without the US
8. Unlike Trump, Europe can’t afford to take Putin at his word

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Donald trump is now foolishly provoking China much as Biden provoked Russia, he claims to be a man of peace, a president who hates wars yet he speaks with fork tongue as we all know.

Unlike Ukraine where the US has NATO allies (or had rather) the situation in Taiwan is different, the US is alone there. The EU states are simply not going to get involved, they have enough on their plate with Russia to care much about fighting a superpower like China, trump will have to handle that on his own.

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www.npr.org

 

[marvin martian]

Starmer speaks to Trump and Zelensky following White House row

A statement from No 10 confirms he spoke with both and "retains unwavering support for Ukraine".

www.bbc.com

The EU needs to understand that the US is not in their camp anymore. Maybe they need to make the minerals deal with Ukraine? This administration seems to have the interest of Russia as their main concern.

The world's democracies need a new leader that doesn't vote at the UN with Russia, North Korea, and Iran. I cannot believe I am saying that...

Do something Europe. Anything.

 

[marvin martian]

Trump needs to worry about his.

Yes, exactly. That's why he kicked the little money launderer out on his Lululemon wearing ass.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Yes, exactly. That's why he kicked the little money launderer out on his Lululemon wearing ass.

How does losing control on camera and ejecting the leader of Ukraine help the US? It doesn't.

Trump is a fool, he's obsessed with a "deal" that if Zelensky signs grants US all sorts of right but grants Ukraine nothing but the promise of an unspecified second phase to the "deal".

Trump has no intention of militarily aiding Ukraine because Putin wouldn't be happy with that. Ukraine should ignore Trump because Trump has no cards, only the vague promise of military aid by a man who has said repeatedly he wants to avoid war, well arming Ukraine is to be at war with Russia.

Leaders are sensitive to losing Trump support but they need to recognize he has nothing to offer, Trump has trapped himself and is all but useless to Ukraine and Europe now.

Trump should just keep his word, cease all aid to Ukraine and turn away, focus on more important problems.