Affirmative action, helpful or harmful?

[Asclepias]

Yeah but its going to take at least the same 400 years to get where whites got with having AA.

Why is that?

For the same reasons it took whites that long to get where they are.

Can you tell me why this non-white person form another country became financially successful and blacks need 400 years of AA to come close?.

I could go in a lot of different directions telling you your example is weak but first lets pretend this one person is an entire race.

1. Pretty sure this guys family line was not subjected to generations of the type of slavery here in the US.
2. Pretty sure they didnt have to deal with Jim Crow for generations.
3. Being from another country I guarantee you he was given a loan to start his business like most non Blacks are.
4. none of this corrects the fact that whites have had 400 years and counting of AA and if they didnt need help they would have no problem with leveling the playing field.


One of the biggest problems with whites is that they think something that took 400 years (and counting) to institute is done away with in substantially less time and less legislated benefits.

 

[TheParser]

Re: the question in the thread title

IMHO:

YES, it has been helpful to millions of people of color, women, etc. because those groups have gotten jobs that they otherwise would never have gotten.

YES, it has been harmful to an unknown number of people because many unqualified people have gotten those jobs.

When I (or a loved one) need medical help, I want the most competent person possible. If ALL the most competent medical people are from Mars, then it's fine if the whole staff is Martian. When it comes to something like medicine, to hell with affirmative action.

If we have to have affirmative action to make people happy, then at least restrict it to occupations where they cannot cause too much mischief.

 

[Asclepias]

Re: the question in the thread title

IMHO:

YES, it has been helpful to millions of people of color, women, etc. because those groups have gotten jobs that they otherwise would never have gotten.

YES, it has been harmful to an unknown number of people because many unqualified people have gotten those jobs.

When I (or a loved one) need medical help, I want the most competent person possible. If ALL the most competent medical people are from Mars, then it's fine if the whole staff is Martian. When it comes to something like medicine, to hell with affirmative action.

If we have to have affirmative action to make people happy, then at least restrict it to occupations where they cannot cause too much mischief.

What makes you think people hired by todays affirmative action are not competent? Do you understand how it works?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

1. Pretty sure this guys family line was not subjected to generations of the type of slavery here in the US.

So what if they did? What does that have to do with today unless they were slaves themselves?
Excuse 1.

2. Pretty sure they didnt have to deal with Jim Crow for generations.

Did you or anybody your age?
Excuse 2.

3. Being from another country I guarantee you he was given a loan to start his business like most non Blacks are.

Given a loan by whom? The only way a bank would make a loan to a guy like him is if he saved enough capital to get such a loan; something any American can do. If anything, I bet the banks put him under more scrutiny because he and his family could pack their bags and return to their country and never come back.
Excuse 3.

4. none of this corrects the fact that whites have had 400 years and counting of AA and if they didnt need help they would have no problem with leveling the playing field.

All whites had help? My father could tell you stories growing up that would make you cry. He joined the military to fight in Korea just so he could eat three squares a day for the first time in his life. If when my parents pass away, and if they are able to leave us something, my sister and I will be the first generation in our family ever to receive an inheritance. It's not just us, but most whites are in the same position.
Excuse 4.

One of the biggest problems with whites is that they think something that took 400 years (and counting) to institute is done away with in substantially less time and less legislated benefits.

Look, I'm 58 years old which is probably older than you are. In my time on earth, nobody was discriminated against. If anything, blacks had an upper hand when it came to jobs or education. You don't need 300 years to do the things you want to do because of something that happened to your ancestors; people you likely never met in your life.

What my father did, my mother did, my grandparents did have nothing to do with my position in life today. My life started 58 years ago, not 258 years ago. When I turned 18 years old, I became a legal adult capable of making my own decisions and taking blame for my own faults. My failures in life are that of my own, not of anybody else. My advantages in life I created. I didn't get advantages because of the color of my skin.

As long as many blacks make excuses, they will be failures for another 400 years. The successful blacks today didn't rely on anything but their abilities, talents, and planning.

 

[Desperado]

It was not only the Affirmative Action Program but the imposed quotas.which caused
the lowering of the standards of the Police & Fire Departments along with the military to accomodate the said AA quotas

 

[Asclepias]

1. Pretty sure this guys family line was not subjected to generations of the type of slavery here in the US.

So what if they did? What does that have to do with today unless they were slaves themselves?
Excuse 1.

2. Pretty sure they didnt have to deal with Jim Crow for generations.

Did you or anybody your age?
Excuse 2.

3. Being from another country I guarantee you he was given a loan to start his business like most non Blacks are.

Given a loan by whom? The only way a bank would make a loan to a guy like him is if he saved enough capital to get such a loan; something any American can do. If anything, I bet the banks put him under more scrutiny because he and his family could pack their bags and return to their country and never come back.
Excuse 3.

4. none of this corrects the fact that whites have had 400 years and counting of AA and if they didnt need help they would have no problem with leveling the playing field.

All whites had help? My father could tell you stories growing up that would make you cry. He joined the military to fight in Korea just so he could eat three squares a day for the first time in his life. If when my parents pass away, and if they are able to leave us something, my sister and I will be the first generation in our family ever to receive an inheritance. It's not just us, but most whites are in the same position.
Excuse 4.

One of the biggest problems with whites is that they think something that took 400 years (and counting) to institute is done away with in substantially less time and less legislated benefits.

Look, I'm 58 years old which is probably older than you are. In my time on earth, nobody was discriminated against. If anything, blacks had an upper hand when it came to jobs or education. You don't need 300 years to do the things you want to do because of something that happened to your ancestors; people you likely never met in your life.

What my father did, my mother did, my grandparents did have nothing to do with my position in life today. My life started 58 years ago, not 258 years ago. When I turned 18 years old, I became a legal adult capable of making my own decisions and taking blame for my own faults. My failures in life are that of my own, not of anybody else. My advantages in life I created. I didn't get advantages because of the color of my skin.

As long as many blacks make excuses, they will be failures for another 400 years. The successful blacks today didn't rely on anything but their abilities, talents, and planning.

If their families were enslaved they would have the same baggage Black families have now.

Not officially but definitely unofficially

Given a loan by the bank.

Yes all whites had help in comparison to Blacks.

You sound like an idiot. I have been discriminated against and I am younger than you.

Its not good to make excuses but its important to know the reasons. Thats why I am a success. I realize that no matter how easy whites make it for themselves they cant stop me when I out work them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It was not only the Affirmative Action Program but the imposed quotas.which caused
the lowering of the standards of the Police & Fire Departments along with the military to accomodate the said AA quotas

I know business owners. They do have a favorite color. Their favorite color is green. The person who can produce them the most green and give them the least headaches is the business owners favorite person.

 

[Rocko]

AA is wrong on so many levels and it breeds animosity

 

[Rocko]

Let’s end it for the betterment of all

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

1. Pretty sure this guys family line was not subjected to generations of the type of slavery here in the US.

So what if they did? What does that have to do with today unless they were slaves themselves?
Excuse 1.

2. Pretty sure they didnt have to deal with Jim Crow for generations.

Did you or anybody your age?
Excuse 2.

3. Being from another country I guarantee you he was given a loan to start his business like most non Blacks are.

Given a loan by whom? The only way a bank would make a loan to a guy like him is if he saved enough capital to get such a loan; something any American can do. If anything, I bet the banks put him under more scrutiny because he and his family could pack their bags and return to their country and never come back.
Excuse 3.

4. none of this corrects the fact that whites have had 400 years and counting of AA and if they didnt need help they would have no problem with leveling the playing field.

All whites had help? My father could tell you stories growing up that would make you cry. He joined the military to fight in Korea just so he could eat three squares a day for the first time in his life. If when my parents pass away, and if they are able to leave us something, my sister and I will be the first generation in our family ever to receive an inheritance. It's not just us, but most whites are in the same position.
Excuse 4.

One of the biggest problems with whites is that they think something that took 400 years (and counting) to institute is done away with in substantially less time and less legislated benefits.

Look, I'm 58 years old which is probably older than you are. In my time on earth, nobody was discriminated against. If anything, blacks had an upper hand when it came to jobs or education. You don't need 300 years to do the things you want to do because of something that happened to your ancestors; people you likely never met in your life.

What my father did, my mother did, my grandparents did have nothing to do with my position in life today. My life started 58 years ago, not 258 years ago. When I turned 18 years old, I became a legal adult capable of making my own decisions and taking blame for my own faults. My failures in life are that of my own, not of anybody else. My advantages in life I created. I didn't get advantages because of the color of my skin.

As long as many blacks make excuses, they will be failures for another 400 years. The successful blacks today didn't rely on anything but their abilities, talents, and planning.

If their families were enslaved they would have the same baggage Black families have now.

Not officially but definitely unofficially

Yes all whites had help in comparison to Blacks.

You sound like an idiot. I have been discriminated against and I am younger than you.

Its not good to make excuses but its important to know the reasons. Thats why I am a success. I realize that no matter how easy whites make it for themselves they cant stop me when I out work them.

If there is any truth to what you say, then you should be against AA more than anybody.

And what baggage do you speak of? Making bad decisions like having kids before you're actually an adult yourself has nothing to do with baggage, it has to do with making bad decisions. Spending money you make instead of saving or investing it is not baggage left behind to you. It's making bad decisions in life.

 

[Asclepias]

AA is wrong on so many levels and it breeds animosity

Thats what Blacks were saying for 400 years. White people hate it when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[Asclepias]

1. Pretty sure this guys family line was not subjected to generations of the type of slavery here in the US.

So what if they did? What does that have to do with today unless they were slaves themselves?
Excuse 1.

2. Pretty sure they didnt have to deal with Jim Crow for generations.

Did you or anybody your age?
Excuse 2.

3. Being from another country I guarantee you he was given a loan to start his business like most non Blacks are.

Given a loan by whom? The only way a bank would make a loan to a guy like him is if he saved enough capital to get such a loan; something any American can do. If anything, I bet the banks put him under more scrutiny because he and his family could pack their bags and return to their country and never come back.
Excuse 3.

4. none of this corrects the fact that whites have had 400 years and counting of AA and if they didnt need help they would have no problem with leveling the playing field.

All whites had help? My father could tell you stories growing up that would make you cry. He joined the military to fight in Korea just so he could eat three squares a day for the first time in his life. If when my parents pass away, and if they are able to leave us something, my sister and I will be the first generation in our family ever to receive an inheritance. It's not just us, but most whites are in the same position.
Excuse 4.

One of the biggest problems with whites is that they think something that took 400 years (and counting) to institute is done away with in substantially less time and less legislated benefits.

Look, I'm 58 years old which is probably older than you are. In my time on earth, nobody was discriminated against. If anything, blacks had an upper hand when it came to jobs or education. You don't need 300 years to do the things you want to do because of something that happened to your ancestors; people you likely never met in your life.

What my father did, my mother did, my grandparents did have nothing to do with my position in life today. My life started 58 years ago, not 258 years ago. When I turned 18 years old, I became a legal adult capable of making my own decisions and taking blame for my own faults. My failures in life are that of my own, not of anybody else. My advantages in life I created. I didn't get advantages because of the color of my skin.

As long as many blacks make excuses, they will be failures for another 400 years. The successful blacks today didn't rely on anything but their abilities, talents, and planning.

If their families were enslaved they would have the same baggage Black families have now.

Not officially but definitely unofficially

Yes all whites had help in comparison to Blacks.

You sound like an idiot. I have been discriminated against and I am younger than you.

Its not good to make excuses but its important to know the reasons. Thats why I am a success. I realize that no matter how easy whites make it for themselves they cant stop me when I out work them.

If there is any truth to what you say, then you should be against AA more than anybody.

And what baggage do you speak of? Making bad decisions like having kids before you're actually an adult yourself has nothing to do with baggage, it has to do with making bad decisions. Spending money you make instead of saving or investing it is not baggage left behind to you. It's making bad decisions in life.

Why should I be against the idea of 400 years of Black AA?

None of your business really but yes some of that stuff you mentioned.

 

[Rocko]

AA is wrong on so many levels and it breeds animosity

Thats what Blacks were saying for 400 years. White people hate it when the shoe is on the other foot.

That’s your problem - you assume some adversarial relationship between blacks and whites. Maybe it’s just you dude

 

[Asclepias]

AA is wrong on so many levels and it breeds animosity

Thats what Blacks were saying for 400 years. White people hate it when the shoe is on the other foot.

That’s your problem - you assume some adversarial relationship between blacks and whites. Maybe it’s just you dude

I dont assume. I know its a fact. It was shown to me by countless other Blacks. Why do whites get mad when they have to deal with what others went through when they are the ones that put it in place?

 

[Rocko]

AA is wrong on so many levels and it breeds animosity

Thats what Blacks were saying for 400 years. White people hate it when the shoe is on the other foot.

That’s your problem - you assume some adversarial relationship between blacks and whites. Maybe it’s just you dude

I dont assume. I know its a fact. It was shown to me by countless other Blacks. Why do whites get mad when they have to deal with what others went through when they are the ones that put it in place?

What exactly do u want whites to go through? I need to understand

 

[Asclepias]

AA is wrong on so many levels and it breeds animosity

Thats what Blacks were saying for 400 years. White people hate it when the shoe is on the other foot.

That’s your problem - you assume some adversarial relationship between blacks and whites. Maybe it’s just you dude

I dont assume. I know its a fact. It was shown to me by countless other Blacks. Why do whites get mad when they have to deal with what others went through when they are the ones that put it in place?

What exactly do u want whites to go through? I need to understand

The same economic situation Blacks had to go through where they were denied opportunity and had their land stolen and businesses destroyed.. Why do you ask?

 

[Rocko]

AA is wrong on so many levels and it breeds animosity

Thats what Blacks were saying for 400 years. White people hate it when the shoe is on the other foot.

That’s your problem - you assume some adversarial relationship between blacks and whites. Maybe it’s just you dude

I dont assume. I know its a fact. It was shown to me by countless other Blacks. Why do whites get mad when they have to deal with what others went through when they are the ones that put it in place?

What exactly do u want whites to go through? I need to understand

The same economic situation Blacks had to go through where they were denied opportunity and had their land stolen and businesses destroyed.. Why do you ask?

Good luck with that

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

1. Pretty sure this guys family line was not subjected to generations of the type of slavery here in the US.

So what if they did? What does that have to do with today unless they were slaves themselves?
Excuse 1.

2. Pretty sure they didnt have to deal with Jim Crow for generations.

Did you or anybody your age?
Excuse 2.

3. Being from another country I guarantee you he was given a loan to start his business like most non Blacks are.

Given a loan by whom? The only way a bank would make a loan to a guy like him is if he saved enough capital to get such a loan; something any American can do. If anything, I bet the banks put him under more scrutiny because he and his family could pack their bags and return to their country and never come back.
Excuse 3.

4. none of this corrects the fact that whites have had 400 years and counting of AA and if they didnt need help they would have no problem with leveling the playing field.

All whites had help? My father could tell you stories growing up that would make you cry. He joined the military to fight in Korea just so he could eat three squares a day for the first time in his life. If when my parents pass away, and if they are able to leave us something, my sister and I will be the first generation in our family ever to receive an inheritance. It's not just us, but most whites are in the same position.
Excuse 4.

One of the biggest problems with whites is that they think something that took 400 years (and counting) to institute is done away with in substantially less time and less legislated benefits.

Look, I'm 58 years old which is probably older than you are. In my time on earth, nobody was discriminated against. If anything, blacks had an upper hand when it came to jobs or education. You don't need 300 years to do the things you want to do because of something that happened to your ancestors; people you likely never met in your life.

What my father did, my mother did, my grandparents did have nothing to do with my position in life today. My life started 58 years ago, not 258 years ago. When I turned 18 years old, I became a legal adult capable of making my own decisions and taking blame for my own faults. My failures in life are that of my own, not of anybody else. My advantages in life I created. I didn't get advantages because of the color of my skin.

As long as many blacks make excuses, they will be failures for another 400 years. The successful blacks today didn't rely on anything but their abilities, talents, and planning.

If their families were enslaved they would have the same baggage Black families have now.

Not officially but definitely unofficially

Yes all whites had help in comparison to Blacks.

You sound like an idiot. I have been discriminated against and I am younger than you.

Its not good to make excuses but its important to know the reasons. Thats why I am a success. I realize that no matter how easy whites make it for themselves they cant stop me when I out work them.

If there is any truth to what you say, then you should be against AA more than anybody.

And what baggage do you speak of? Making bad decisions like having kids before you're actually an adult yourself has nothing to do with baggage, it has to do with making bad decisions. Spending money you make instead of saving or investing it is not baggage left behind to you. It's making bad decisions in life.

Why should I be against the idea of 400 years of Black AA?

None of your business really but yes some of that stuff you mentioned.

Because if you are in anyway successful, AA makes you look bad. Everybody assumes you are successful because of AA instead of your own abilities and achievements. You didn't earn your own way, you were given a way by government. It's insulting to any successful person.

It's just like when you made that comment about my beverage store owner. You automatically assume his success was not because of hard work and learning, his success was because somebody gave him a loan that wouldn't loan money to blacks. I can assure you that if he read this blog and knew we were talking about him, he would be totally insulted. Even at his age, he still works night and day. When not at the store, he drives out 40 miles to his hotel to help his wife with chores she can't handle. They aren't that much younger than I am.

 

[rightwinger]

All Americans have benefitted from Affirmative Action

It has been a major success

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

All Americans have benefitted from Affirmative Action

It has been a major success

Yes it has, for losers.