Advice needed, for a crazy situation

[buttercup]

Is your church not part of a national organization? If so, kick it up the chain.

We had a very similar situation at our church, though not nearly as bad as what you describe, and the problem was brought to the national level, and they booted our pastor's ass out the door.

ETA: Never mind. I see you already answered the question. You don't have any higher ups to help you. That sucks.

Yes, it really does. The whole situation has been maddening, to say the least. Unfortunately we still don't have a pro bono or affordable attorney, but we've had a couple people give us a lot of suggestions on where to look, so we're in the process of doing that. It's just taking so long, for everything...

Those accounts are all the property of your church. You have solid grounds for a civil lawsuit.

Yes, I agree, since we have everything documented, we can prove ownership. I don't want to get into specifics too much here, but we DID have a bit of good news recently.

For anyone reading, your prayers would be greatly appreciated, this whole thing has been incredibly difficult and draining. Thanks!

 

[g5000]

Yes, it really does. The whole situation has been maddening, to say the least. Unfortunately we still don't have a pro bono or affordable attorney, but we've had a couple people give us a lot of suggestions on where to look, so we're in the process of doing that. It's just taking so long, for everything...




Yes, I agree, since we have everything documented, we can prove ownership. I don't want to get into specifics too much here, but we DID have a bit of good news recently.

For anyone reading, your prayers would be greatly appreciated, this whole thing has been incredibly difficult and draining. Thanks!

Well, every church has a schism sooner or later.

 

[buttercup]

Well, every church has a schism sooner or later.

Well, I don't know if they all have a schism THIS bad, but yeah, that's probably true.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Yes, it really does. The whole situation has been maddening, to say the least. Unfortunately we still don't have a pro bono or affordable attorney, but we've had a couple people give us a lot of suggestions on where to look, so we're in the process of doing that. It's just taking so long, for everything...




Yes, I agree, since we have everything documented, we can prove ownership. I don't want to get into specifics too much here, but we DID have a bit of good news recently.

For anyone reading, your prayers would be greatly appreciated, this whole thing has been incredibly difficult and draining. Thanks!

Hoping everything works out. Having something you've invested your blood, sweat, and tears in, only to have it stolen out from under you has to be maddening.

He's not exactly displaying the fruits of the Spirit

 

[buttercup]

Hoping everything works out. Having something you've invested your blood, sweat, and tears in, only to have it stolen out from under you has to be maddening.

He's not exactly displaying the fruits of the Spirit

Exactly, well put. Thank you Carl, I appreciate the kind words and encouragement. One of the sad things is, he was a friend (I knew him online before the church was founded ) but now after everything that has happened, I don't want to talk to him and I can't watch his live talks, at all. I used to watch every single one, without fail. Now I can't even watch a few seconds of it. The only thing that helps is to know that God sees all and I highly doubt that his stolen version of the church is going to be blessed, considering how it started and considering everything that happened over the last few years.

 

[d0gbreath]

WTF is an online Church? Scam is the only thing that comes to mind.

 

[buttercup]

An update....

We sent him an official cease-and-desist letter that was written up by an attorney. But we haven't been notified that he received and signed for it, so apparently he hasn't read it yet. It was sent to his P.O box, and I think he is temporarily in a different city.

We also finally put a more in-depth post on the front page of the website, setting the record straight.

But just yesterday he did another live talk on YouTube and Facebook where he straight up lied to everyone about the situation. Speaking about us, he said that our terms "ran out" (those of us on the board of directors who voted him out) and that a new board was elected. That is a blatant and demonstrable lie. But unfortunately the people watching his live talks probably believe him.

Also...since the website was one of the only digital assets that he DIDN'T highjack (because he couldn't) he recently purchased the same exact domain, except he got the .com, as opposed to the .org, which is what we've had since the start. And he put up a new website. He's not legally allowed to use the organization's name, but he's doing that with that new site...And using our logo (that I created btw) and also using a lot of the content that was on our website (which I also created.)

Hopefully when he receives the cease-and-desist, he will do the right thing, but we're not holding our breath. So whether or not we take further legal action depends on what he does.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

An update....

We sent him an official cease-and-desist letter that was written up by an attorney. But we haven't been notified that he received and signed for it, so apparently he hasn't read it yet. It was sent to his P.O box, and I think he is temporarily in a different city.

We also finally put a more in-depth post on the front page of the website, setting the record straight.

But just yesterday he did another live talk on YouTube and Facebook where he straight up lied to everyone about the situation. Speaking about us, he said that our terms "ran out" (those of us on the board of directors who voted him out) and that a new board was elected. That is a blatant and demonstrable lie. But unfortunately the people watching his live talks probably believe him.

Also...since the website was one of the only digital assets that he DIDN'T highjack (because he couldn't) he recently purchased the same exact domain, except he got the .com, as opposed to the .org, which is what we've had since the start. And he put up a new website. He's not legally allowed to use the organization's name, but he's doing that with that new site...And using our logo (that I created btw) and also using a lot of the content that was on our website (which I also created.)

Hopefully when he receives the cease-and-desist, he will do the right thing, but we're not holding our breath. So whether or not we take further legal action depends on what he does.

I didn't watch his Facebook live, but I did see he was still doing his FNL. I assumed he no longer had access. You never know a person's soul. A sad situation that take away from the message

 

[buttercup]

I didn't watch his Facebook live, but I did see he was still doing his FNL. I assumed he no longer had access. You never know a person's soul. A sad situation that take away from the message

I only watched a few minutes of it because I just happened to be on YouTube when it was live and something made me click on it. In fact, I haven't watched ANY of his live talks ever since he went rogue and hijacked everything. I can't watch them, it makes me nauseous.

And I agree, you never know a person's soul... at least not until you see the bad fruit come out. One of the worst parts is that it looks so bad for the cause itself, which is already a bit controversial to begin with (I don't want to say too much here, but you know exactly what I'm talking about) and it's also a bad witness for unbelievers. That's why I'm trying to be careful in how I handle the whole thing. The thought crossed my mind about making video correcting his lies, but I don't want or need the drama. So unless I feel strongly led to do something like that, I'm going to hold off on getting more public about it.

 

[Dekster]

We have documented everything. I am the secretary. As Buttercup has said, we are looking for a cease and desist letter. Also

1. To provide in that letter to the shadow church that he has formed since his removal from his offices and titles that we are the legit board; this is documented well. He has claimed that our treasurer, whom by unanimous vote over a year ago is not a legit board member because our bylaws state we are a board of 5 and she was the 6th member; but he never changed the bylaws, has worked with her this entire time until after he was removed from his offices; he can't later claim she isn't legit, that is called waiver and estoppel.
2. To inform the shadow church that his new direction for the church violates almost every aspect of our bylaws and 501(c)(3) laws that govern our church. If he doesn't stop willingly, we may need to dissolve the non-profit to protect us all

I'm not opposed to going to civil court, if the will of the majority is with me on it. I'd want all the documentation looked over by an attorney if possible. We are also positive he is planning for every angle he can think of as to what we might do, like a chess player in a chess game.

Any attorneys here who'd be willing to offer advice or suggest a low-cost option would be so helpful, we'd be very grateful.

Generally the congregation, not the board or the preacher, controls the church if it is unincorporated.

 

[Samofvt]

WTF is an online Church? Scam is the only thing that comes to mind.

The only way is to pray to god (and Jesus Christ, if it suits you) is to do it in your own way. I bend my knee, occasionally. It is direct and very personal.

Directly. Not online. So yeah, WTF is an online Church? Scam

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Directly. Not online. So yeah, WTF is an online Church? Scam

It's a group of Christians from all parts of the world who share certain values not understood by "mainstream Christians". Since the numbers are small, and they live all over the globe, they "meet" online. No "scam"

 

[BackAgain]

Here’s my boy advice:

Don’t seek and don’t accept advice from random strangers on a message board.

Of course, that is a self refuting piece of advice. So, Nevermind.

 

[buttercup]

It's a group of Christians from all parts of the world who share certain values not understood by "mainstream Christians". Since the numbers are small, and they live all over the globe, they "meet" online. No "scam"

Thank you. Exactly right, and well said.