Zone1 Abortion Policy Poll

[martybegan]

Except the only change was that Pandemic.

We had those policies before the Pandemic and after, and the spike only happened when an Orange Buffoon fumbled a Pandemic response and fucked up all our lives.

Only you want him to do it again, for some reason.

No, the big change was the Floyd riots and the defund the police movement, added to the Soros prosecutors taking office in various location.

Are you implying another pandemic will miraculously sprout up if Trump wins?

 

[JoeB131]

No, the big change was the Floyd riots and the defund the police movement, added to the Soros prosecutors taking office in various location.

Are you implying another pandemic will miraculously sprout up if Trump wins?

Oh, he'd find a way to fuck it up.

But since none of this has to do with Abortion, I'm done.

 

[martybegan]

Oh, he'd find a way to fuck it up.

But since none of this has to do with Abortion, I'm done.

Was thinking the same thing. Well played sir.

 

[playtime]

I generally will not respond to chopped up posts that destroy context and intent of a person's conversation.

& i break up posts when they have multiple points to address instead of focusing on just one or 2 & the rest gets overlooked.

don't make yer replies so damn long then.

It is unfortunate that you equate a human pregnancy to 'highjacking a uterus.' That is so over the top I'll just leave you to it.

lol ... what bullshit. a pregnancy is not highjacked unless that birth is FORCED AGAINST ONE'S WILL.

how else do you spin it - where it's not?

But news flash: that developing human in that uterus had absolutely no choice whatsoever in the whole thing. But it is a developing human being.

developing DNA, with the potential to become human, yes. but you want it to have the same rights as a fully formed human being.

And yes, the Founders intended the states could pass whatever laws they wished that were not specifically forbidden by the Constitution.

the constitution is a living document. it evolves... if it didn't, then states can & would still allow the ownership of black people.

something out beloved founding fathers also engaged in.

And those passed by the Puritans were pretty draconian. But every little theocracy that existed at the time the Constitution was ratified had dissolved by the end of the Eighteenth Century and no new ones developed other than the quasi theocracy established by the original Mormons in Utah that has also pretty much voluntarily dissolved.

uh-huh. tell that to the christofascists that think they are god's warriors because they wear a cross & spew so called right to life rhetoric but refuse to acknowledge that abortion was sanctioned in the bible.

 

[PeterPilot]

Does a citizen have a right to his own body? To her own body?

Or does a church or a state retain supremacy over all individuals and their bodies?

 

[Dragonlady]

Yup. And if the doctor says, "folks, there's something wrong we need to do a late term abortion" that should be perfectly legal and the government needs to stay out of the doctors office.

No one walks in to an abortion clinic 7 months pregnant and says I changed my mind.

In fact, the late term abortions are the ones which are most necessary, medically. These are women who don't have a choice.

Canada has no abortion laws at all. Abortion is a matter between the woman and her doctor. The Canadian Supreme Court overturned the laws in 1989, and any attempt to pass new laws has been met with staunch resistance from women.

Not only is abortion legal, it's FREE. It's fully paid for by my provincial health insurance. No co-pays. And our abortion rate is half that of the USA. Because we have paid maternity leave, universal health care, and a generous child tax benefit for poor families.

The way to end abortion is to provide income and health care to pregnant women. Conservatives don't want to end abortion. They want to control women's sexuality.

 

[sealybobo]

In fact, the late term abortions are the ones which are most necessary, medically. These are women who don't have a choice.

Canada has no abortion laws at all. Abortion is a matter between the woman and her doctor. The Canadian Supreme Court overturned the laws in 1989, and any attempt to pass new laws has been met with staunch resistance from women.

Not only is abortion legal, it's FREE. It's fully paid for by my provincial health insurance. No co-pays. And our abortion rate is half that of the USA. Because we have paid maternity leave, universal health care, and a generous child tax benefit for poor families.

The way to end abortion is to provide income and health care to pregnant women. Conservatives don't want to end abortion. They want to control women's sexuality.

Don't have kids you can't afford is the most successful public policy ever. Don't do drugs, failed. Don't bully, failed. But Americans are listening to their parents when they say don't have kids before you have a good job and out of debt. Unfortunately that means having 1 kid when you are 39. No more having 2.3 kids. So our population is shrinking. I think it's a good thing environmentally but our economy needs workers so now I'm pro immigration. South American, Mexicans, Palestinians, Iraqi's (chaldeans. The Christian ones), they all want to come here and take our shitty jobs. And we need to pay for the baby boomers social security.

If we are going to cut social security on anyone let it be Baby Boomers. They have pensions too. And wealth. Americans in the future aren't saving nearly enough to retire like Boomers got to.

 

[sealybobo]

In fact, the late term abortions are the ones which are most necessary, medically. These are women who don't have a choice.

Canada has no abortion laws at all. Abortion is a matter between the woman and her doctor. The Canadian Supreme Court overturned the laws in 1989, and any attempt to pass new laws has been met with staunch resistance from women.

Not only is abortion legal, it's FREE. It's fully paid for by my provincial health insurance. No co-pays. And our abortion rate is half that of the USA. Because we have paid maternity leave, universal health care, and a generous child tax benefit for poor families.

The way to end abortion is to provide income and health care to pregnant women. Conservatives don't want to end abortion. They want to control women's sexuality.

Canadians have an Asian Invasion problem right? I bet Canadians aren't having as many kids as they used to too right? So you need those asians to fill jobs?

 

[Dragonlady]

I generally will not respond to chopped up posts that destroy context and intent of a person's conversation.

It is unfortunate that you equate a human pregnancy to 'highjacking a uterus.' That is so over the top I'll just leave you to it. But news flash: that developing human in that uterus had absolutely no choice whatsoever in the whole thing. But it is a developing human being.

And yes, the Founders intended the states could pass whatever laws they wished that were not specifically forbidden by the Constitution. And those passed by the Puritans were pretty draconian. But every little theocracy that existed at the time the Constitution was ratified had dissolved by the end of the Eighteenth Century and no new ones developed other than the quasi theocracy established by the original Mormons in Utah that has also pretty much voluntarily dissolved.

That "developing human being" doesn't have a choice because it's not yet a sentient being. "Developing" is the operative word.

Don't have kids you can't afford is the most successful public policy ever. Don't do drugs, failed. Don't bully, failed. But Americans are listening to their parents when they say don't have kids before you have a good job and out of debt. Unfortunately that means having 1 kid when you are 39. No more having 2.3 kids. So our population is shrinking. I think it's a good thing environmentally but our economy needs workers so now I'm pro immigration. South American, Mexicans, Palestinians, Iraqi's (chaldeans. The Christian ones), they all want to come here and take our shitty jobs. And we need to pay for the baby boomers social security.

If we are going to cut social security on anyone let it be Baby Boomers. They have pensions too. And wealth. Americans in the future aren't saving nearly enough to retire like Boomers got to.

Serveral conservative publications have come out with articles which in essence say, that the reason the USA is coming out of the covid economic displacement so successfully, is because of high levels of immigration since the pandemic ended.

You have full employment. Everyone who wants a job, can get one. Immigrants spend money getting established in the USA. Those who arrive with little need furniture, clothing and transportation. The rent housing and buy food. Their spending and their work contributes to GDP.

The U.S. Economy Is Surpassing Expectations. Immigration Is One Reason. (Published 2024)

Immigrants aided the pandemic recovery and may be crucial to future needs. The challenge is processing newcomers and getting them where the jobs are.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/02/immigration-taking-pressure-off-the-job-market-us-economy-expert.html

Why the US economy needs more immigrants

A surge in immigration to the United States is projected to impact the economy, labour market, and housing sector. The Congressional Budget Office anticipates a larger and younger workforce, potential effects on average wages, increased productivity, and growth in residential investment.

m.economictimes.com

Immigration helps explain US economic strength: Goldman

Immigrants get the job done

www.ft.com

The bald fact is the citizens of majority white first world nations are NOT ever going to be emmigrating to the USA, because, other than the Ukrainians, they're NOT facing war, famine, government instability or economic collapse, due in large part to NATO and the UN. Nobody is suggesting building a Wall to keep the US from being overrun with Canadians. Au contraire, Americans are holding job fairs in Canada trying to lure well educated mostly white Canadians to move to the US.

We already live in countries which have a much better quality of life for their citizens, than you do. We like universal health care that isn't bankrupting our citizens. We like a quality education for ALL of our kids regardless of where they live. We like sound infrastructure, and governments that puts its citizens first.

No political party that took abortion away from women would survive in this country. You people are pussies. You follow the pols like sheep. They work for YOU, not the other way around.

 

[sealybobo]

That "developing human being" doesn't have a choice because it's not yet a sentient being. "Developing" is the operative word.


Serveral conservative publications have come out with articles which in essence say, that the reason the USA is coming out of the covid economic displacement so successfully, is because of high levels of immigration since the pandemic ended.

You have full employment. Everyone who wants a job, can get one. Immigrants spend money getting established in the USA. Those who arrive with little need furniture, clothing and transportation. The rent housing and buy food. Their spending and their work contributes to GDP.

The U.S. Economy Is Surpassing Expectations. Immigration Is One Reason. (Published 2024)

Immigrants aided the pandemic recovery and may be crucial to future needs. The challenge is processing newcomers and getting them where the jobs are.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/02/immigration-taking-pressure-off-the-job-market-us-economy-expert.html

Why the US economy needs more immigrants

A surge in immigration to the United States is projected to impact the economy, labour market, and housing sector. The Congressional Budget Office anticipates a larger and younger workforce, potential effects on average wages, increased productivity, and growth in residential investment.

m.economictimes.com

Immigration helps explain US economic strength: Goldman

Immigrants get the job done

www.ft.com

The bald fact is the citizens of majority white first world nations are NOT ever going to be emmigrating to the USA, because, other than the Ukrainians, they're NOT facing war, famine, government instability or economic collapse, due in large part to NATO and the UN. Nobody is suggesting building a Wall to keep the US from being overrun with Canadians. Au contraire, Americans are holding job fairs in Canada trying to lure well educated mostly white Canadians to move to the US.

We already live in countries which have a much better quality of life for their citizens, than you do. We like universal health care that isn't bankrupting our citizens. We like a quality education for ALL of our kids regardless of where they live. We like sound infrastructure, and governments that puts its citizens first.

No political party that took abortion away from women would survive in this country. You people are pussies. You follow the pols like sheep. They work for YOU, not the other way around.

I will say this. I have Canadian relatives who wish their son could come to the USA for work. And their brothers kids are going to school here in America on sports scholarships. I believe they would like to land good jobs in America. Land a good career in America, there is no better place to live.

And it's not as bad as I make it seem. Kids can go to community college pretty cheap so only 2 years of college are expensive. And they don't have to go into debt to finish in 4 years. Finish in 6 or 8 with less debt.

It's up to women. Are they stupid enough to not show up for Biden when Trump's Supreme Court justices yanked Roe and red states are getting extreme with IVF and frozen embryos having the rights of humans. Republicans are counting on America "getting over it" on abortion. Meanwhile, they aren't done trying to outlaw it at a national level despite what they say.

We are not getting smart scientists from China. Remember Jewish scientists defected to America in WW2 from Germany? Those types are going to Canada or Germany. Not America. Because America seems anti immigrant.

Republicans have uneducated whites fooled.

Check this out

White, working-class, middle-age Americans dying younger than their peers

That group is dying younger, on average, than other middle-age US adults, a trend driven by their dwindling economic opportunities.

www.statnews.com

Middle-age white Americans with limited education are increasingly dying younger, on average, than other middle-age US adults, a trend driven by their dwindling economic opportunities, research by two Princeton University economists has found.

The economists, Anne Case and Angus Deaton, argue in a paper released Thursday that the loss of steady middle-income jobs for those with high school degrees or less has triggered broad problems for this group. They are more likely than their college-educated counterparts, for example, to be unemployed, unmarried or afflicted with poor health.

Remember when America was great? These uneducated whites told blacks to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. Now that they find themselves in the same position as those minorities, they're not taking it so well.

A great example are the idiots at the insurrection.
And not just white men

 

[sealybobo]

That "developing human being" doesn't have a choice because it's not yet a sentient being. "Developing" is the operative word.


Serveral conservative publications have come out with articles which in essence say, that the reason the USA is coming out of the covid economic displacement so successfully, is because of high levels of immigration since the pandemic ended.

You have full employment. Everyone who wants a job, can get one. Immigrants spend money getting established in the USA. Those who arrive with little need furniture, clothing and transportation. The rent housing and buy food. Their spending and their work contributes to GDP.

The U.S. Economy Is Surpassing Expectations. Immigration Is One Reason. (Published 2024)

Immigrants aided the pandemic recovery and may be crucial to future needs. The challenge is processing newcomers and getting them where the jobs are.

www.nytimes.com

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/02/immigration-taking-pressure-off-the-job-market-us-economy-expert.html

Why the US economy needs more immigrants

A surge in immigration to the United States is projected to impact the economy, labour market, and housing sector. The Congressional Budget Office anticipates a larger and younger workforce, potential effects on average wages, increased productivity, and growth in residential investment.

m.economictimes.com

Immigration helps explain US economic strength: Goldman

Immigrants get the job done

www.ft.com

The bald fact is the citizens of majority white first world nations are NOT ever going to be emmigrating to the USA, because, other than the Ukrainians, they're NOT facing war, famine, government instability or economic collapse, due in large part to NATO and the UN. Nobody is suggesting building a Wall to keep the US from being overrun with Canadians. Au contraire, Americans are holding job fairs in Canada trying to lure well educated mostly white Canadians to move to the US.

We already live in countries which have a much better quality of life for their citizens, than you do. We like universal health care that isn't bankrupting our citizens. We like a quality education for ALL of our kids regardless of where they live. We like sound infrastructure, and governments that puts its citizens first.

No political party that took abortion away from women would survive in this country. You people are pussies. You follow the pols like sheep. They work for YOU, not the other way around.

Trump Says He Will Decide 'Pretty Soon' On Proposing A National Abortion Ban​

Fox News pressed the presumptive GOP nominee about a recent report that he was considering a 16-week national abortion ban.

The former president reportedly said in a private conversation shared with the Times that he likes the idea of a 16-week federal ban because it’s an “even” four months.

Abortion later in pregnancy is also extremely rare, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Around 1% of abortions occur at 21 weeks or later and the subset of abortions in the third trimester (after 26 weeks) is even smaller.

“These latest comments reaffirm what we’ve long known: if given the chance, he will enact a national ban on abortion. That’s why it’s imperative that we reelect the Biden-Harris ticket and deliver Congressional majorities to lock our right to abortion care into federal law.”

 

[Resnic]

Does a citizen have a right to his own body? To her own body?

Or does a church or a state retain supremacy over all individuals and their bodies?

Yes, until a separate person incapable of speaking or thinking for themselves comes into play that is 100% dependant on the other.

And laws have rule over someone's body when another person is involved. Just like if you kill someone and you lose control and have to go to jail, if you shoot at cops you give up your life.

But women don't have to give up control of their body. They can not have sex if they don't want to get pregnant, they can use birth control but even that still is a gamble, they can wait till they are ready for a family.

Once an egg is fertilized and implants then it is a person. It's just as much a person after 2 weeks as it is at 2 years. Once the egg is fertilized and implanted then it begins a 18 year growth period to becoming an adult, it is a person, just in very early stages. Because barring any unforseen circumstances that will be born in 9 months.

An abortion is ending a baby growing inside of a woman, that means killing it. There can't be an abortion if there is no life growing.

If had a society that was based on personal responsibility, morals, values and standards abortion wouldn't even be an issue. But we don't, that's why so many people say killing unborn children is a great thing.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Most abortions should be banned.

It's definitely become a form of post-sex contraception.

They de-value human life.

Contraception isn't hard to obtain in America to prevent pregnancy.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Yes, until a separate person incapable of speaking or thinking for themselves comes into play that is 100% dependant on the other.

And laws have rule over someone's body when another person is involved. Just like if you kill someone and you lose control and have to go to jail, if you shoot at cops you give up your life.

But women don't have to give up control of their body. They can not have sex if they don't want to get pregnant, they can use birth control but even that still is a gamble, they can wait till they are ready for a family.

Once an egg is fertilized and implants then it is a person. It's just as much a person after 2 weeks as it is at 2 years. Once the egg is fertilized and implanted then it begins a 18 year growth period to becoming an adult, it is a person, just in very early stages. Because barring any unforseen circumstances that will be born in 9 months.

An abortion is ending a baby growing inside of a woman, that means killing it. There can't be an abortion if there is no life growing.

If had a society that was based on personal responsibility, morals, values and standards abortion wouldn't even be an issue. But we don't, that's why so many people say killing unborn children is a great thing.

Sadly, the feminist sexual revolution seems to impose that women have the "right" to have sex without biological consequences... to spite men and their lack of biological consequences.

Basically, it's: "Ha! you A-holes go around F'ing?? and we can't? That's not fair... watch this!"

Yet, the sexes are obviously completely different. Only an irrational ideologue goes down the radical feminist sexual revolution path, and nowadays there's a lot of em. Not to mention that sex does completely different things psychologically to women than men (and vice versa). There's a high correlation to depression in females and high level of sexual partners (unlike men), and clinical psychology knows why, feminism just refuses to listen.

Meanwhile, How do you avoid killing what you created? de-humanize the thing you created, then you can kill it without regret!

I'm not a big fan of bringing up Adolph... but Hitler did the same thing to the Jews. Dehumanize, then slaughter away.

 

[MisterBeale]

Down Syndrome is 100% preventable. Iceland has already done it.

The only way it is 100% preventable, is by using Chorionic Villus Sampling (CVS) or Amniocentesis which is a diagnostic test, not the screening they use in Iceland. These diagnostics are the only sure, 100% certain ways, to give accurate results.

The screenings, only give percentile chances. The diagnostics carry with them, a chance of miscarriage, so the great majority of women who want to keep their babies, rarely get them.

You clearly are a victim of propaganda, and again, like usual, don't know what you are talking about. Do you even know anyone with this condition?

Fact Check: No, Iceland is NOT systematically eradicating Down syndrome​

Fact Check: No, Iceland is NOT systematically eradicating Down syndrome

Recently the US news network CBS News ran a story which took viewers "Inside the country where Down syndrome is disappearing". This story prompted a swift backlash in the US, with political and religious leaders denouncing Iceland for practicing eugenics. Some commentators went so far as to...

icelandmag.is

 

[PeterPilot]

Yes, until a separate person incapable of speaking or thinking for themselves comes into play that is 100% dependant on the other.

And laws have rule over someone's body when another person is involved. Just like if you kill someone and you lose control and have to go to jail, if you shoot at cops you give up your life.

But women don't have to give up control of their body. They can not have sex if they don't want to get pregnant, they can use birth control but even that still is a gamble, they can wait till they are ready for a family.

Once an egg is fertilized and implants then it is a person. It's just as much a person after 2 weeks as it is at 2 years. Once the egg is fertilized and implanted then it begins a 18 year growth period to becoming an adult, it is a person, just in very early stages. Because barring any unforseen circumstances that will be born in 9 months.

An abortion is ending a baby growing inside of a woman, that means killing it. There can't be an abortion if there is no life growing.

If had a society that was based on personal responsibility, morals, values and standards abortion wouldn't even be an issue. But we don't, that's why so many people say killing unborn children is a great thing.

In your specious example, a woman does very much give up control of her body. If the state or the church can tell her what she must do or not do during pregnancy, she has no control over her body, you and religious zealots control her body.

Your "solution" that she can avoid sex is absurd, fitting in nicely with your sophistry.

 

[sartre play]

Yup. And if the doctor says, "folks, there's something wrong we need to do a late term abortion" that should be perfectly legal and the government needs to stay out of the doctors office.

No one walks in to an abortion clinic 7 months pregnant and says I changed my mind.

That is most likely true.

 

[sealybobo]

This poll is to clarify the mutually exclusive positions that are often conflated on this site.

Trump said yesterday that us Democrats abort babies after 9 months of pregnancy. We execute babies.

What a nut job. Ladies, don't believe him when he says he won't outlaw abortion. He a liar.

 

[Sparker]

I'm a mildly interested bystander. I can't give birth. Anyone I might date is probably long past conceiving.

I see many factors and trends that affect the abortion issue. The USA is becoming poorer as medical expenses rise and trust in the healthcare industry decreases. We have a falling birthrate as twentysomethings with poverty and job insecurity delay or cancel plans for parenthood. The religious objections to abortion may fade away as Christianity dies out. And there will be more wars and various other calamities knocking the population down. So I will mostly stand by and watch what happens.

 

[sealybobo]

I'm a mildly interested bystander. I can't give birth. Anyone I might date is probably long past conceiving.

I see many factors and trends that affect the abortion issue. The USA is becoming poorer as medical expenses rise and trust in the healthcare industry decreases. We have a falling birthrate as twentysomethings with poverty and job insecurity delay or cancel plans for parenthood. The religious objections to abortion may fade away as Christianity dies out. And there will be more wars and various other calamities knocking the population down. So I will mostly stand by and watch what happens.

That's right. Back when our parents were 18, dad could go out and find a job in a factory and he could raise a family of 4 on the wages he made. They should have banned abortion back then when there was less of a reason to abort and people were more religious. Odd to pass this now when so few of us are religious anymore or can afford children.

They created a selfish generation.

And "keep your dick in your pants" was the most successful public policy initiative EVER. Say no to drugs? Nope. We did drugs. But they told us not to have kids we can't afford and a lot of us listened.

Sorry if marriage is outdated. Men don't want to pay for 4 people and women can find their own jobs today.

About 30 percent of adults over 50 are single, according to a Pew Research Center survey in the United States in 2022.