Zone1 Abortion is murder and I can't find any way to show otherwise.

[forkup]

It doesn't matter! Why can't you just understand. It doesn't matter. Kill an unborn person with birth defects. Stop women from experiencing pregnancy AT ALL. Nothing you can imagine that justifies killing unborn babies does not change them from human beings into something else. If you want to kill unborn humans, by all means KILL THEM. Kill them if they are black. No one wants them anyway. Kill them because they have Down's and aren't pretty enough. Kill them if one leg will be shorter than the other. And, if there is some defect missed and the child is accidentally born, kill them then.

Nothing makes them from human into something else.

There are three puddles of biological tissue. They are the results of a bovine pregnancy, a feline pregnancy and a human pregnancy. Scientists could easily determine which is from a cow, which is from a cat but when it gets to the third! Scientists would be totally baffled. Never saw that before. No way to tell what species it is. IT IS HUMAN. If you want the unborn to be a different species invent one. It's ending the life of a human being. You either support that, live with it, honestly accept it, or not.

Let me interject here. You are trying to lay the moral responsibility for every abortion on us, the people who would allow people to have abortions. What I also notice is that you pretend the opposite view carries no responsibility. So, I tell you what.

I'll be happy to take personal responsibility for every abortion ever performed. If you are prepared to take responsibility for every child that grows up a criminal because the position you would put them in. Every victim of those criminal acts. Every person, who has to take responsibility for raising a child when he or she can hardly take care of themself. Every bout of morning sickness, pre-eclampsia, and death that comes from carrying a child. Every rape victim who has to live with the fact that the seed of that violent crime is somewhere in the world whether she wants it or not. Every bout of depression, every penny, they spend on a child that they don't have. Every doctor that doesn't dare intervene in a life-threatening situation because they fear arrest. Every woman barren because a doctor didn't want to abort a deformed fetus.

If you are prepared to say I accept I'm personally responsible for this. You can put the moral burden on the entire pro-choice movement for the opposite position.

Me personally, a rather accept both are pretty shitty options and let the INDIVIDUAL most closely affected by the choice make it for themselves.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Let me interject here. You are trying to lay the moral responsibility for every abortion on us, the people who would allow people to have abortions. What I also notice is that you pretend the opposite view carries no responsibility. So, I tell you what.

I'll be happy to take personal responsibility for every abortion ever performed. If you are prepared to take responsibility for every child that grows up a criminal because the position you would put them in. Every victim of that criminal act. Every person, who has to take responsibility for raising a child when he or she can hardly take care of themself. Every bout of morning sickness, pre-eclampsia, and death that comes from carrying a child. Every rape victim who has to live with the fact that the seed of that violent crime is somewhere in the world whether she wants it or not. Every bout of depression, every penny, they spend on a child that they don't have.

If you are prepared to say I accept I'm personally responsible for this. You can put the moral burden on the entire pro-choice movement.

Me personally, a rather accept both are pretty shitty options and let the INDIVIDUAL most closely affected by the choice make their own choice.

How hard did you have to work to gain that kind of misunderstanding? You must have a need to carry an incredible amount of guilt to make that kind of crap up. Do you understand that an unborn human being is a human being? If you do, and you still support abortions, then you support the taking of human life. There's no other way around it. You can be perfectly okay with killing off all these unborn humans. Just own it. Do you think that knowing that abortion kills people makes you responsible for every abortion? That's your problem. Sorry you have such a serious problelm

You make an excellent case for terminating ALL pregnancies. I assume that's where there is going. I always thought that's where it would go. The goal is no pregnancies brought to term and you can't make the case for that.

For the record. I believe that abortion is the taking of human life. I"m okay with that. If someone makes the judgment its their life or the life of this other person, kill it.

 

[forkup]

You make an excellent case for terminating ALL pregnancies. I assume that's where there is going. I always thought that's where it would go. The goal is no pregnancies brought to term and you can't make the case for that.

Strawman much?

Me personally, a rather accept both are pretty shitty options and let the INDIVIDUAL most closely affected by the choice make it for themselves.

This was the ONLY paragraph I took a position. It doesn't say, imply, or suggest I'm against pregnancies.

Again, what you are doing is trying to lay a moral burden on everybody who's pro-choice for abortion while completely ignoring that FORCING somebody to carry a fetus to term has consequences by itself.

There's only one of us not willing to own the consequences of their position, it's not me. That's why you revert to this ridiculous strawman. I accept at face value that an abortion takes a human's life. I don't feel the need to run from it, or feel guilt for it. If I have to choose between a woman's right and that of a fetus, it's a very easy choice for me. Even if that right is the right to decide for herself what to do with her unborn child.

You on the other hand run, and run hard from the notion that an unwanted pregnancy can and often does, have severe negative consequences for both mother and child.

 

[Mac-7]

The are certainly human from the moment of conception. However, they are not viable until implantation since a zygote that has not implanted will not survive to be anything.

A new born baby is not viable according to lib logic

It needs a lot of personal attention that chic lib females are not willing to give

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Strawman much?

This was the ONLY paragraph I took a position. It doesn't say, imply, or suggest I'm against pregnancies.

Again, what you are doing is trying to lay a moral burden on everybody who's pro-choice for abortion while completely ignoring that FORCING somebody to carry a fetus to term has consequences by itself.

There's only one of us not willing to own the consequences of their position, it's not me. That's why you revert to this ridiculous strawman. I accept at face value that an abortion takes a human's life. I don't feel the need to run from it, or feel guilt for it. If I have to choose between a woman's right and that of a fetus, it's a very easy choice for me. Even if that right is the right to decide for herself what to do with her unborn child.

You on the other hand run, and run hard from the notion that an unwanted pregnancy can and often does, have severe negative consequences for both mother and child.

No one and I mean NO ONE is forced to become pregnant. Pregnancy is a biological function common to all mammalian females. It's like saying you are forced to be bald when your hair falls out. Pregnancy reminds women that they are animals. Nothing more, nothing less. Yes, we can understand a woman's desire to kill a defective offspring. After all, animals abandon defective offspring to die all the time

I do not run from the notion that an unwanted pregnancy has severe negative consequences. A healthy pregnancy has severe negative consequences. I know. I was pregnant. My figure went to shit, my ankles swelled up. I had back aches and vomited up my guts for hours on end. I frankly don't care what the consequences are. I don't care if they are good, bad or indifferent. An unwanted pregnancy has exactly the same consequences as a wanted pregnancy.

Either you are okay with killing the kid or not. Nothing that's decided makes it any less human.

 

[JoeB131]

The sane conclusion is, fetuses are recognized as developing human beings and its okay to kill them. Why is this small truth so objectionable. If you say it's okay to kill them because they have no rights, then slaughter away. But their humanity cannot be denied.

An unborn cow has no rights because a cow has no rights. No one ever suggests that the unborn calf isn't a bovine. Of course it is. Anything else is just silliness.

Naw, silliness is pretending a fetus should have more rights than the woman it's inside, or that woman will stay pregnant when she doesn't want to be.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Naw, silliness is pretending a fetus should have more rights than the woman it's inside, or that woman will stay pregnant when she doesn't want to be.

Soooo. You admit that it's human. Just with no rights. That's a big step in the right direction.

 

[Mac-7]

The are certainly human from the moment of conception. However, they are not viable until implantation since a zygote that has not implanted will not survive to be anything.

By your standard they not viable until years after birth

Your argument is wrong

 

[Zincwarrior]

Naw, silliness is pretending a fetus should have more rights than the woman it's inside, or that woman will stay pregnant when she doesn't want to be.

That is the fundamental argument. Who's rights are more important.

 

[initforme]

The same folk who are against voters determining the issue also sickening believe the birth rate is too low. Warped.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

By your standard they not viable until years after birth

Your argument is wrong

My argument is that an unborn fetus is a developing human. A zygote is developing human. I never used the word viable. Why did you?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

That is the fundamental argument. Who's rights are more important.

The one the the power of course.

 

[Mac-7]

My argument is that an unborn fetus is a developing human. A zygote is developing human. I never used the word viable. Why did you?

See post 259 where you did use the word “viable”

 

[EvilCat Breath]

See post 259 where you did use the word “viable”

I drawing a distinction between a developing human that would survive naturally and,one that will never survive.

In any case the basic controversy has been carved out. It's not about when life begins. It's not about whether or not the unborn is human. It's about who can articulate rights and who has the power.

 

[TemplarKormac]

What's your point? First of, you, me, a calf, a cow , a human fetus, are all a clump of cells and DNA.

You defeated your own premise with your very first sentence.

If it is human, or a calf, then by default it is not just an assemblage of cells and DNA. You cannot attribute said assemblage to its progenitor species while attempting to strip it of it's membership of same species all in an attempt to justify ending its existence for the mere want of exercising a perceived right.


Just can't happen.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Its unique, yet you advocate no medical, educational, or welfare aid for the mother or this unique life. The hypocrisy is maddening.

And when the child is born, no less, you attempt to mutilate their genitalia to affirm a dysphoric gender condition. You try to hide the decision the child made from their parent, made out of peer pressure. You teach them that the gender they were born as does not necessitate them being that gender.

You can't be serious.

 

[TemplarKormac]

That is the fundamental argument. Who's rights are more important.

The right to live is inherent in every person who's ever been born, as it is a developing human child in the womb.

 

[initforme]

The right to live is inherent in every person who's ever been born, as it is a developing human child in the womb.

To prevent the creation of that human is the pertinent and proper thing. Contraception is king. Alot less conceptions will fix the entire issue.

 

[Zincwarrior]

The right to live is inherent in every person who's ever been born, as it is a developing human child in the womb.

Ever been born.

 

[Monk-Eye]

" Scotus Should Be Charged With Sedition For Dobbs Decision "

* Anti Abortion Groups Are Traitors Promoting Sedition Against Us Constitution And Revulsion Of Us Citizens *

A new born baby is not viable according to lib logic
It needs a lot of personal attention that chic lib females are not willing to give

A state is comprised of individual citizens and a state interest is exclusive to individual citizens .

The constitutional requirement to become a citizen is live birth and therefore a live birth is required for equal protection with a citizen , and that is the basis of the roe v wade decision .

Both the left and right revile the citizen and that is why we are in this situation .

The issue abortion is not " When does life begin ? " , rather the issue of abortion is " When does a state interest begin ? " .