Zone1 Abortion Debate: Come Clean and without fallacy

[Mr. Friscus]

They are only clumps of cells to me, then.

If killing clumps of cells is the standards by which we can kill things... then we can kill anything.

It makes me wonder if these pro-abortionists even think before they speak.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

2/3rds of fertilized Zygotes never attach to the uterine wall, despite their "DNA".

A natural process isn't criminal. Just because Zygotes don't all attach doesn't mean somebody did something wrong. It's like you saying we have to criminally charge the person who was standing next to someone who had a heart attack and died. I'm almost embarrassed for you that you tried to make that point.

Frozen Embryos in Fertility Clinics. No one is demanding their release under habeas corpus.

It's certainly opposed in major institutions like the Catholic Church.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Well, let's try it again. If you are personally against rape, do you find it acceptable if others choose to rape, the same way you think abortion is OK for others?

This is a checkmate question. It exposes the cop out abortion position of Joe Biden and so many other Democrats. That's why you won't answer.

Indeed. I've busted many on here with the same point.

"It's between the woman and her doctor" to decide if a fetus is allowed to live, "and it's none of your business".

That sounds like the reasoning a mob boss would make. "Whether we kill this snitch is up to us to decide, and it's none of your business, nor the police's business. It's between two adults standing right here".

 

[JoeB131]

Is the law still on the books?

It is.

Does it being on the books remain problematic for fucktards who want to deny that an abortion kills a child?

It does.

Well, it can't be used for what you guys WANTED to use it for, which is a backdoor way to ban abortion. That was the whole point, really.

But you tried it on a couple of women of color, and people said, 'Um, no!"

Back to the drawing board.

 

[JoeB131]

A natural process isn't criminal. Just because Zygotes don't all attach doesn't mean somebody did something wrong. It's like you saying we have to criminally charge the person who was standing next to someone who had a heart attack and died. I'm almost embarrassed for you that you tried to make that point.

Neither is an unnatural process. If you aren't willing to throw women in prison for having abortions, laws against them are meaningless.

It's certainly opposed in major institutions like the Catholic Church.

Quite honestly, **** the Catholic Church. When they are held to account for their worldwide pedophilia ring, THEN I will take them seriously about zygotes and embryos.

IVF is a WONDERFUL thing, in that it allowed women who might not have been able to have babies to have them. WANTED babies. That's the whole point

Indeed. I've busted many on here with the same point.

"It's between the woman and her doctor" to decide if a fetus is allowed to live, "and it's none of your business".

That sounds like the reasoning a mob boss would make. "Whether we kill this snitch is up to us to decide, and it's none of your business, nor the police's business. It's between two adults standing right here".

Well, if the Snitch was stuck up the Mob Boss's ass for nine months, he probably should have something to say about it.

 

[JoeB131]

If killing clumps of cells is the standards by which we can kill things... then we can kill anything.

It makes me wonder if these pro-abortionists even think before they speak.

We have thought about it.

Actual People (which you stop giving a shit about after they are born) are viable, have been issued birth certificates, are counted on the Census, and are allowable as tax deductions.

Clearly legal definitions.

A clump of cells inside a woman isn't viable, will not be issued a birth certificate, etc.

Because they are just clumps of unviable cells.

 

[Mashmont]

We have thought about it.

Actual People (which you stop giving a shit about after they are born) are viable, have been issued birth certificates, are counted on the Census, and are allowable as tax deductions.

Clearly legal definitions.

A clump of cells inside a woman isn't viable, will not be issued a birth certificate, etc.

Because they are just clumps of unviable cells.

The only difference between these "clumps" and adult human beings is stage of development. That's it.

 

[Chuz Life]

Well, it can't be used for what you guys WANTED to use it for, which is a backdoor way to ban abortion. That was the whole point, really.

But you tried it on a couple of women of color, and people said, 'Um, no!"

Back to the drawing board.

Remind me, were those cases before or after Roe was overturned?

 

[Chuz Life]

We have thought about it.

Actual People (which you stop giving a shit about after they are born) are viable, have been issued birth certificates, are counted on the Census, and are allowable as tax deductions.

Clearly legal definitions.

A clump of cells inside a woman isn't viable, will not be issued a birth certificate, etc.

Because they are just clumps of unviable cells.

Viability is relative.

Intellectually HONEST people know and understand that.

IVF viability - Bing

Intelligent search from Bing makes it easier to quickly find what you’re looking for and rewards you.

www.bing.com

 

[Chuz Life]

Quite honestly, **** the Catholic Church. When they are held to account for their worldwide pedophilia ring, THEN I will take them seriously about zygotes and embryos.

Oh the irony in that.

"Someone banged children over there, and the Church tried to hide it. . . So I don't feel bad at all about denying these lesser developed children over here, any protections or even any recognition of their personhood."

 

[JoeB131]

The only difference between these "clumps" and adult human beings is stage of development. That's it.

I agree. The stage of development they are at when they are subject to abortion isn't significant enough to matter.

Especially if it requires a woman's cooperation.

And here's what you guys don't get. If a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, she'll find a way to not be pregnant.

That's why they have so many abortions in the Philippines, despite the country having the kinds of laws you want, and being a lot more Catholic than Americans are.

Oh the irony in that.

"Someone banged children over there, and the Church tried to hide it. . . So I don't feel bad at all about denying these lesser developed children over here, any protections or even any recognition of their personhood."

Fetuses still aren't children
Embryos at the IVF clinic aren't children.
Zygotes heading towards the exit aren't children.

Happy to have cleared that up for you.

But it wasn't "someone" who banged children, it was the Catholic Clergy. The Church KNEW about the abuse. They knew about it for decades. They intentionally moved offending priests around with no warning to the new parishes. They paid off families with NDAs. This scandal went all the way up to the Popes.

Now, in Joe's ideal world, there would be no "elective" abortions because contraception would work right every time and women would only choose men who are good father material.

We don't live in an ideal world. We live in the real world.

Contraception will fail or be absent.
Women will have sex with bad men
Women will fix the above two problems with abortions.

And unless you are willing to throw them in jail for doing it, you are going to have abortions. The only question is, will they be safe ones done by professionals, or will it be Amateur Night at the Apollo?

We can't control drugs, or guns, or prostitution, or booze during Prohibition, why do you think we'd be able to control abortion?

 

[JoeB131]

Viability is relative.

Intellectually HONEST people know and understand that.

Oh, did you just discover the Bing Search function? I didn't even know Bing was still a thing.

The point is, you have frozen embryos that are defrosted and implanted YEARS after they were conceived.

Try sticking an actual baby into liquid nitrogen... I don't think you'll be happy with the results.

 

[Chuz Life]

Oh, did you just discover the Bing Search function? I didn't even know Bing was still a thing.

The point is, you have frozen embryos that are defrosted and implanted YEARS after they were conceived.

Try sticking an actual baby into liquid nitrogen... I don't think you'll be happy with the results.

Same organism, different characteristics at different ages and levels of development. . .

Still same organism.

Same

HUMAN

Being.

 

[Chuz Life]

I agree. The stage of development they are at when they are subject to abortion isn't significant enough to matter.

Especially if it requires a woman's cooperation.

And here's what you guys don't get. If a woman doesn't want to be pregnant, she'll find a way to not be pregnant.

That's why they have so many abortions in the Philippines, despite the country having the kinds of laws you want, and being a lot more Catholic than Americans are.




Fetuses still aren't children
Embryos at the IVF clinic aren't children.
Zygotes heading towards the exit aren't children.

Happy to have cleared that up for you.

But it wasn't "someone" who banged children, it was the Catholic Clergy. The Church KNEW about the abuse. They knew about it for decades. They intentionally moved offending priests around with no warning to the new parishes. They paid off families with NDAs. This scandal went all the way up to the Popes.

Now, in Joe's ideal world, there would be no "elective" abortions because contraception would work right every time and women would only choose men who are good father material.

We don't live in an ideal world. We live in the real world.

Contraception will fail or be absent.
Women will have sex with bad men
Women will fix the above two problems with abortions.

And unless you are willing to throw them in jail for doing it, you are going to have abortions. The only question is, will they be safe ones done by professionals, or will it be Amateur Night at the Apollo?

We can't control drugs, or guns, or prostitution, or booze during Prohibition, why do you think we'd be able to control abortion?

"Someone banged children over there, and the Church tried to hide it. . . So I don't feel bad at all about denying these lesser developed children over here, any protections or even any recognition of their personhood."

 

[pknopp]

That's how you bust any pro-abortionists standard of "viability".

If viability is the standard that prevents us from being able just end their life without immorality.. then people in comas can have their cords yanked, and that "viability" arguing pro-abortionist would have no problem with it.

Of course, they do have a problem with it.. then they fidget and dance to try to evade their double standard.

People in coma's are many times still viable. It's why many are placed into coma's.

 

[JoeB131]

Same organism, different characteristics at different ages and levels of development. . .

Still same organism.

Same

HUMAN

Being.

Except not viable and completely dependent on a willing host.

But if the host isn't willing, then into the Medical Waste Container little Globby goes.

"Someone banged children over there, and the Church tried to hide it. . . So I don't feel bad at all about denying these lesser developed children over here, any protections or even any recognition of their personhood."

Nope, because they aren't children, and the Church has no moral authority after what it did. (And that wasn't even the worst thing they ever did.)

 

[Mr. Friscus]

People in coma's are many times still viable. It's why many are placed into coma's.

Those on a ventilator who would die if you took them off aren’t “viable”. That’s what I’m talking about. Look at you proving my point already. Dancing and trying to evade

 

[pknopp]

Those on a ventilator who would die if you took them off aren’t “viable”.

They absolutely are.

Otherwise they wouldn't be on a ventilator.

That’s what I’m talking about. Look at you proving my point already. Dancing and trying to evade

LOL

 

[ding]

My stomach is just fine.

2/3rds of fertilized Zygotes never attach to the uterine wall, despite their "DNA".

Frozen Embryos in Fertility Clinics. No one is demanding their release under habeas corpus.

It's not. You can't handle believing what it really is.

 

[JoeB131]

It's not. You can't handle believing what it really is.

what it really is is a clump of cells..

Now, you could make a definite argument for a 20 week old fetus being protected. You could even make an argument for 12 weeks.

But conception? Zygotes? Frozen Embryos? Come on, man.