Zone1 Abortion Debate: Come Clean and without fallacy

[Lockback]

Sure, we've given you honest answers.

You want to give globs of tissue the same rights as people.

It's absurd on its face.

Let's take your idiotic question about "Fathers".

Once again, 2/3rds of fertilized zygotes never cling to the Uterine Wall. Do they have "fathers"? No, because they are non-events.

1/5th of all pregnancies miscarry. No one thinks twice about them. They are non-events.

So are abortions.



No, it's a glob of unviable tissue.

You love death.
It's what gives you life.

 

[Robert W]

No idea what you are talking about, don't care.



So by your logic, then, Sperm and Ova are human life. Forget that men ejaculate millions of sperm.

The issue here isn't life, it's viability.



Wow, so you want to turn all women into breeding machines? Interesting. Refreshing to see this kind of honesty from an anti-choicer rather then listen to them emote about "the Babies!!!"

Speaking of which.




No, it just means we don't share your value that a glob of tissue deserves more consideration than the woman it's inside (without whom it couldn't exist to start with).

I think you need to develop an artificial womb and make every man carry a baby to term.

I am seriously pulling for your life not be populated with your children. Based on you, and your teaching, they will propose even more death for humans.

 

[JoeB131]

You love death.
It's what gives you life.

Life and death are all part of the same cycle.

I am seriously pulling for your life not be populated with your children. Based on you, and your teaching, they will propose even more death for humans.

Everybody is going to die at some point.

This has little to do with the impractical notion of giving fetuses more rights than the women they are inside.

 

[Robert W]

This has little to do with the impractical notion of giving fetuses more rights than the women they are inside.

They are humans Joe. What are their crimes?

 

[Robert W]

Life and death are all part of the same cycle.

True but you are talking against life. And you speak up for death. Ask your spouse if she wants you to end the life of her not born child?

 

[Chuz Life]

So, they think basic human rights are "given" to children now?

Instead of their basic human rights being an inherent part of being a human being, our rights are "given" to us, by others?


No.

My basic human rights were not "given" to me.

They are inherent.

 

[Lockback]

Life and death are all part of the same cycle.

Translation: "I see no difference between life and death. That's why I admire Chairman Mao so much. He murdered millions. And that gave China new life! That excites me."

Everybody is going to die at some point.

This has little to do with the impractical notion of giving fetuses more rights than the women they are inside.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: your values are more warped than anybody's I've ever seen this side of Chairman Mao himself.

 

[Robert W]

Countries who refuse to put to death not born humans.

 

[Robert W]

Everybody is going to die at some point.

Yes that is true. The goal is to assist the young a lot and the old residents will handle the dying. By the way, God created the universe. As he created it all, he also created gods. And provided a path after being humans for us to also become gods. So when you die, you actually will get a chance. So be careful what you wish for. Gods as God created them are his children.

 

[JoeB131]

They are humans Joe. What are their crimes?

No, they aren't.

They are globs of unviable tissue who do not deserve more rights than the women they are inside.

Yes that is true. The goal is to assist the young a lot and the old residents will handle the dying. By the way, God created the universe. As he created it all, he also created gods. And provided a path after being humans for us to also become gods. So when you die, you actually will get a chance. So be careful what you wish for. Gods as God created them are his children.

Um, this is some weird philosophy, which I'd rather not get into.

The fact is, you live, you die, there's nothing after this, so you should enjoy the ride while you are here.

There is no God worried about where people leave their body fluids.

 

[JoeB131]

Countries who refuse to put to death not born humans.

Also, a list of countries where none of us would want to live.

You leave out the economic benefits of abortion and contraception. Being able to control your reproduction is the greatest economic program ever. You just have the kids you can afford. Period.

Contraception and Abortion separate the First World from the Third World.

 

[Robert W]

Um, this is some weird philosophy, which I'd rather not get into.

Joe, I am fine with your strange dialogue. You have maybe 2 fans supporting you and I have many more.

You don't appear to have much to live for right now. What do you have to live for?

Joe. as others tell you, you support death.

 

[Robert W]

Also, a list of countries where none of us would want to live.

You leave out the economic benefits of abortion and contraception. Being able to control your reproduction is the greatest economic program ever. You just have the kids you can afford. Period.

Contraception and Abortion separate the First World from the Third World.

You sure rally for death. When have you rallied for life?

 

[JoeB131]

Joe, I am fine with your strange dialogue. You have maybe 2 fans supporting you and I have many more.

What are you a 14 year old girl worried about how many fans you have on the internet?

You don't appear to have much to live for right now. What do you have to live for?

Quite a lot. My wife and I live a very good life.

I just don't consider a glob of tissue to be life.

More to the point, making abortion illegal would be impractical. Make it illegal, the mob will be running abortion mills, which is what they did before 1972.

 

[Robert W]

More to the point, making abortion illegal would be impractical. Make it illegal, the mob will be running abortion mills, which is what they did before 1972.

I am led by your words to the conclusion you were not alive in 1972. I recall that era since I was born in 1938. The saddest moment in my life was when my first wife had me drive her to get an abortion, saying it was my kid. She told my sister that it was a child from her coworker. I was still a democrat and at that age thought like you now think. I put in a lot of effort to validate the way I thought, and you think now but learned how wrong I had been to support Democrats.

 

[JoeB131]

I am led by your words to the conclusion you were not alive in 1972.

NO, I was born in 1962, which you've been told many times.

he saddest moment in my life was when my first wife had me drive her to get an abortion, saying it was my kid. She told my sister that it was a child from her coworker.

Yes, that is sad. It's also her decision, whether you like it or not.

I was still a democrat and at that age thought like you now think. I put in a lot of effort to validate the way I thought, and you think now but learned how wrong I had been to support Democrats.

Here's the thing. Of the 7-2 Majority that decided Roe v. Wade, five of them were Nixon and Eisenhower appointees. A lot of sensible Republicans at the time welcomed Roe was getting rid of unworkable abortion laws that weren't being followed to start with. Even the Evangelicals didn't care that much, seeing Abortion as a "Catholic Issue".

The reason Roe survived as long as it did was because Reagan and Bush Sr. continued to appoint justices who sensibly supported it.

So how did ending legal abortion become the Holy Grail of GOP Politics? It happened because the Baptists needed a new issue to rally the faithful around now that Segregation had bitten the dust and wasn't a popular issue anymore.

 

[Robert W]

NO, I was born in 1962, which you've been told many times.



Yes, that is sad. It's also her decision, whether you like it or not.



Here's the thing. Of the 7-2 Majority that decided Roe v. Wade, five of them were Nixon and Eisenhower appointees. A lot of sensible Republicans at the time welcomed Roe was getting rid of unworkable abortion laws that weren't being followed to start with. Even the Evangelicals didn't care that much, seeing Abortion as a "Catholic Issue".

The reason Roe survived as long as it did was because Reagan and Bush Sr. continued to appoint justices who sensibly supported it.

So how did ending legal abortion become the Holy Grail of GOP Politics? It happened because the Baptists needed a new issue to rally the faithful around now that Segregation had bitten the dust and wasn't a popular issue anymore.

Joe, you are close to retirement age. I am still very shocked at your politics. As old as you are, one would think you would have investigated the nature of governments, how either citizens control their lives or the Government controls your life. Even Roe had the Government controlling women's lives. Roe was not challenged much until the most recent decision and even then, they kicked the can down the road.
If appointees mattered a lot, it seems logical by now the Supreme court would have simply ended abortions. Sure, it infringes on things she can do, but that is not unusual. She will find out fast when she drinks alcohol and drives how free she is.

The same Democrats hostile over abortion are pals of the illegal aliens. Say they are simply working for a living. But that act is illegal.

 

[JoeB131]

Joe, you are close to retirement age. I am still very shocked at your politics. As old as you are, one would think you would have investigated the nature of governments, how either citizens control their lives or the Government controls your life. Even Roe had the Government controlling women's lives. Roe was not challenged much until the most recent decision and even then, they kicked the can down the road.

Well, that's not really true, either. Every year, some douchenoodle red state would pass some kind of idiotic abortion ban, and every year, SCOTUS would strike it down. Only after Trump appointed three mouth-breathing Catholic fanatics to the court did we get the absurd ruling we got.

And even then, it hasn't worked out to plan, as some of the Reddest Red States have voted to restore Pre-Dobbs abortion rules.

If appointees mattered a lot, it seems logical by now the Supreme court would have simply ended abortions. Sure, it infringes on things she can do, but that is not unusual. She will find out fast when she drinks alcohol and drives how free she is.

The problem with that is they would have to then declare a fetus to be a person. There are a whole lot of problems with that premise, despite what people like Chuz and Ding and Friscus "think".

For instance, in vitro fertilization would be illegal. You can't create "people" only to eventually discard them.

Every miscarriage (about 1 million a year) would have to be investigated as a homicide.

We'd have to start counting Fetuses on the Census and allowing them to be taken as tax deductions.

Women could be charged with "assault" for things like smoking or drinking during pregnancy, or even eating the wrong kinds of foods. They could also be barred from certain industrial jobs.

he same Democrats hostile over abortion are pals of the illegal aliens. Say they are simply working for a living. But that act is illegal.

Not the topic of this thread, so I'm not discussing it.

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Countries who refuse to put to death not born humans.

View attachment 1216499

The one area where we are less moral than Iran.

 

[initforme]

The issue has been settled no? President Trump got rid of Roe. Great on him. Done.