Abbas suggests Obama promised 67 lines - E. Jerusalem

[toastman]

How could they have been a country before 1988 when it was in 1988 that they became one???
If you need documents for this, then you have some issues Tinmore, and I dont mean that as an insult

1988 has no relevance to the question of the status of Palestine before the creation of Israel.

The documents that I have seen, and previously posted, say that it was a country.

You have not posted anything to refute that.

1988 was the year Palestine was declared a sovereign state, yet it has no relevance?? Wow, just wow Tinmore.

 

[toastman]

Tinmore, are you saying there was an Arab state ex Palestine before 1988 ? Yes or no?

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Brits made this abundantly clear. PLEASE consider your statement refuted!

How could they have been a country before 1988 when it was in 1988 that they became one???
If you need documents for this, then you have some issues Tinmore, and I dont mean that as an insult

1988 has no relevance to the question of the status of Palestine before the creation of Israel.

The documents that I have seen, and previously posted, say that it was a country.

You have not posted anything to refute that.

(OBSERVATION)

"Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.

"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.

"After the 15th May, 1948, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine. It does not seem very material whether it is considered to be the de facto or the de jure Government. In any case, its title to be the Government of Palestine will rest on the resolution of the General Assembly.

"His Majesty's Government will recognize the United Nations Commission as the authority with which to make an agreement regarding the transfer of the assets of the Government of Palestine."

SOURCE: PAL/138 27 February 1948

(COMMENT)

Before there was an Israel, the Government of Palestine was the UK as Mandatory. After the establishment of the State of Israel, the Government of Palestine was the UNPC.

Try to keep on top of this. You get it wrong every time.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

its not a diversion. You are diverting by refusing to answer them.

So, can you please answer the two questions and stop ducking?

where are your documents showing that palestine was not a country?

You are the one ducking and diverting.

You are trying to lead me down a rabbit hole.

No thanks.

there are none as palestine was not a country but was defined in the san remo conference as an area of land to be partitioned into lebanon, syria, trans jordan and a homeland for the jews. No mention of a palestinian state or nation to be incorporated into the plan. You try and hide the fact that the original area of palestine included lebanon, syria, trans jordan and israel. And that under the mandate the ruling powers could evict or re-locate people at will. If the world knew in 1947 what it knows now they would have stationed troops in the m.e with the remit to shoot to kill

OK, but by the time the Treaty of Lausanne was signed Palestine had defined international borders, with established nationality and citizenship of the natives.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, there was a Government for Palestine.

where are your documents showing that palestine was not a country?

You are the one ducking and diverting.

You are trying to lead me down a rabbit hole.

No thanks.

there are none as palestine was not a country but was defined in the san remo conference as an area of land to be partitioned into lebanon, syria, trans jordan and a homeland for the jews. No mention of a palestinian state or nation to be incorporated into the plan. You try and hide the fact that the original area of palestine included lebanon, syria, trans jordan and israel. And that under the mandate the ruling powers could evict or re-locate people at will. If the world knew in 1947 what it knows now they would have stationed troops in the m.e with the remit to shoot to kill

OK, but by the time the Treaty of Lausanne was signed Palestine had defined international borders, with established nationality and citizenship of the natives.

(COMMENT)

The Government for Palestine, and the borders, were established by the Allied Powers through the assignment of the Mandate. As harsh as it may sound, the Arabs had nothing at all to do with it. The Treaty of Lausanne has nothing to do with it.

The issues of Nationality and Citizenship were determined by the Order in Council.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[toastman]

Rocco, was there an Arab state or country called Palestine before 1988?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Brits made this abundantly clear. PLEASE consider your statement refuted!

How could they have been a country before 1988 when it was in 1988 that they became one???
If you need documents for this, then you have some issues Tinmore, and I dont mean that as an insult

1988 has no relevance to the question of the status of Palestine before the creation of Israel.

The documents that I have seen, and previously posted, say that it was a country.

You have not posted anything to refute that.

(OBSERVATION)

"Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.

"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.

"After the 15th May, 1948, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine. It does not seem very material whether it is considered to be the de facto or the de jure Government. In any case, its title to be the Government of Palestine will rest on the resolution of the General Assembly.

"His Majesty's Government will recognize the United Nations Commission as the authority with which to make an agreement regarding the transfer of the assets of the Government of Palestine."

SOURCE: PAL/138 27 February 1948

(COMMENT)

Before there was an Israel, the Government of Palestine was the UK as Mandatory. After the establishment of the State of Israel, the Government of Palestine was the UNPC.

Try to keep on top of this. You get it wrong every time.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but even under an appointed administration, it was still the country of Palestine.

As for the UNPC, when did it ever step foot in Palestine and what did it do to protect its citizens under its watch?

 

[RoccoR]

toastman,

No!

Rocco, was there an Arab state or country called Palestine before 1988?

(COMMENT)

Palestine is the original short-title for the phrase: Mandate for Palestine. The Government of Palestine was the assigned Mandatory (ie British).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

toastman,

No!

Rocco, was there an Arab state or country called Palestine before 1988?

(COMMENT)

Palestine is the original short-title for the phrase: Mandate for Palestine. The Government of Palestine was the assigned Mandatory (ie British).

Most Respectfully,
R

Not so.

Palestine was still there after the mandate left Palestine.

 

[toastman]

Tinmore, did you read the quote that says that Palestine was not a sovereign state, but a legal entity? ? That means it was not a country. A country and a sovereign state are the same thing. So are you going to stop calling it that?????

 

[toastman]

toastman,

No!

Rocco, was there an Arab state or country called Palestine before 1988?

(COMMENT)

Palestine is the original short-title for the phrase: Mandate for Palestine. The Government of Palestine was the assigned Mandatory (ie British).

Most Respectfully,
R

Not so.

Palestine was still there after the mandate left Palestine.

Palestine the what?

 

[toastman]

toastman,

No!

Rocco, was there an Arab state or country called Palestine before 1988?

(COMMENT)

Palestine is the original short-title for the phrase: Mandate for Palestine. The Government of Palestine was the assigned Mandatory (ie British).

Most Respectfully,
R

Yes, I used to say the same thing until I was somehow convinced that Mandatory Palestine and Palestine were not the same thing.

Thanks for clearing it up for me

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Not a country!

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Brits made this abundantly clear. PLEASE consider your statement refuted!

1988 has no relevance to the question of the status of Palestine before the creation of Israel.

The documents that I have seen, and previously posted, say that it was a country.

You have not posted anything to refute that.

(OBSERVATION)

"Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.

"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed.

"After the 15th May, 1948, the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine. It does not seem very material whether it is considered to be the de facto or the de jure Government. In any case, its title to be the Government of Palestine will rest on the resolution of the General Assembly.

"His Majesty's Government will recognize the United Nations Commission as the authority with which to make an agreement regarding the transfer of the assets of the Government of Palestine."

SOURCE: PAL/138 27 February 1948

(COMMENT)

Before there was an Israel, the Government of Palestine was the UK as Mandatory. After the establishment of the State of Israel, the Government of Palestine was the UNPC.

Try to keep on top of this. You get it wrong every time.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but even under an appointed administration, it was still the country of Palestine.

As for the UNPC, when did it ever step foot in Palestine and what did it do to protect its citizens under its watch?

(COMMENT)

Palestine was legal entity ---. There was no Arab Government in place. The Arab Higher Committee rejected participation in the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."

The UNPC, implemented the Israeli acceptance of the Partition Plan and helped the Jewish execute the final "Steps Preparatory to Independence. The UNPC was forced out of the Mandate to Palestine when the Arab League Armies attacked. They did not afford the UNPC any time to make a difference.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Not a country!

P F Tinmore, et al,

The Brits made this abundantly clear. PLEASE consider your statement refuted!


(OBSERVATION)


(COMMENT)

Before there was an Israel, the Government of Palestine was the UK as Mandatory. After the establishment of the State of Israel, the Government of Palestine was the UNPC.

Try to keep on top of this. You get it wrong every time.

Most Respectfully,
R

OK, but even under an appointed administration, it was still the country of Palestine.

As for the UNPC, when did it ever step foot in Palestine and what did it do to protect its citizens under its watch?

(COMMENT)

Palestine was legal entity ---. There was no Arab Government in place. The Arab Higher Committee rejected participation in the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."

The UNPC, implemented the Israeli acceptance of the Partition Plan and helped the Jewish execute the final "Steps Preparatory to Independence. The UNPC was forced out of the Mandate to Palestine when the Arab League Armies attacked. They did not afford the UNPC any time to make a difference.

Most Respectfully,
R

Do you have any document to back that up?

 

[RoccoR]

toastman, et al,

Don't let them confuse you.

toastman,

No!

Rocco, was there an Arab state or country called Palestine before 1988?

(COMMENT)

Palestine is the original short-title for the phrase: Mandate for Palestine. The Government of Palestine was the assigned Mandatory (ie British).

Most Respectfully,
R

Yes, I used to say the same thing until I was somehow convinced that Mandatory Palestine and Palestine were not the same thing.

Thanks for clearing it up for me

(COMMENT)

The name territory and authority over Palestine was established by the Council.

PART I. PRELIMINARY.

Title.1. This Order may be cited as "The Palestine Order in Council, 1922."

The limits of this Order are the territories to which the Mandate for Palestine applies, hereinafter described as Palestine.​

SOURCE: POinC 10 August 1922 a week before the Mandate

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes I have...

P F Tinmore, et al,

Not a country!

OK, but even under an appointed administration, it was still the country of Palestine.

As for the UNPC, when did it ever step foot in Palestine and what did it do to protect its citizens under its watch?

(COMMENT)

Palestine was legal entity ---. There was no Arab Government in place. The Arab Higher Committee rejected participation in the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."

The UNPC, implemented the Israeli acceptance of the Partition Plan and helped the Jewish execute the final "Steps Preparatory to Independence. The UNPC was forced out of the Mandate to Palestine when the Arab League Armies attacked. They did not afford the UNPC any time to make a difference.

Most Respectfully,
R

Do you have any document to back that up?

(OBSERVATION)

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

SOURCE: PAL/169 17 May 1948

v/r
R

 

[GISMYS]

God says==FOR BEHOLD, in those days and at that time when I shall reverse the captivity and restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, I will gather all nations and will bring them down into the Valley of Jehoshaphat, and there will I deal with and execute judgment upon them for their treatment of My people and of My heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations and because they have divided My land." [Joel 3:1-2

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes I have...

P F Tinmore, et al,

Not a country!


(COMMENT)

Palestine was legal entity ---. There was no Arab Government in place. The Arab Higher Committee rejected participation in the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."

The UNPC, implemented the Israeli acceptance of the Partition Plan and helped the Jewish execute the final "Steps Preparatory to Independence. The UNPC was forced out of the Mandate to Palestine when the Arab League Armies attacked. They did not afford the UNPC any time to make a difference.

Most Respectfully,
R

Do you have any document to back that up?

(OBSERVATION)

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

SOURCE: PAL/169 17 May 1948

v/r
R

Where are the documents showing what they did to implement the resolution. Dr. Eduardo Morgan said that we are done, we are out of here. Where are the thing they were supposed to do like physically laying out the proposed borders and setting up the jurisdiction of Jerusalem, among others?

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes I have...

Do you have any document to back that up?

(OBSERVATION)

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

SOURCE: PAL/169 17 May 1948

v/r
R

Where are the documents showing what they did to implement the resolution. Dr. Eduardo Morgan said that we are done, we are out of here. Where are the thing they were supposed to do like physically laying out the proposed borders and setting up the jurisdiction of Jerusalem, among others?

Wow just wow

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Unfortunately, the UN didn't have your leadership and guidance to direct the UNPC> So they didn't try to meet your requirements, which differ from the "Steps Preparatory to Independence."

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes I have...

Do you have any document to back that up?

(OBSERVATION)

During today's brief meeting, Dr. Eduardo Morgan (Panama) said that this resolution of the Assembly merely "relieves responsibility. The Commission has not been dissolved. In fact the resolution of last November 29 has been implemented."

SOURCE: PAL/169 17 May 1948

v/r
R

Where are the documents showing what they did to implement the resolution. Dr. Eduardo Morgan said that we are done, we are out of here. Where are the thing they were supposed to do like physically laying out the proposed borders and setting up the jurisdiction of Jerusalem, among others?

(COMMENT)

There were three separate aspects to the Partition Plan.

• Jewish State
• Arab State
• Jerusalem

The UNPC only had to implement the portion that was preparatory to the independence of the Jewish State. The original boundaries did not deviate from that of the Partition Plan. What changed the boundaries was the conflict that immediately ensued.

The UNPC had to meet UN criteria and not the PF Tinmore criteria. The declarations and clarifications on, amoung other things, the boundaries, were discussed by the UN in enclosure to Application of Israel for admission to membership in the United Nations (A/818). These were accepted by the UN General Assembly and culminated in "Admission of Israel to membership in the United Nations (A/RES/273)."

Most Respectfully,
R