Abbas suggests Obama promised 67 lines - E. Jerusalem

[P F Tinmore]

Why are you scared to answer the questions?

It is only a diversion from the discussion. It has no meaning.

Its not a diversion. You are diverting by refusing to answer them.

So, can you please answer the two questions and stop ducking?

Where are your documents showing that Palestine was not a country?

You are the one ducking and diverting.

You are trying to lead me down a rabbit hole.

No thanks.

 

[toastman]

It is only a diversion from the discussion. It has no meaning.

Its not a diversion. You are diverting by refusing to answer them.

So, can you please answer the two questions and stop ducking?

Where are your documents showing that Palestine was not a country?

You are the one ducking and diverting.

You are trying to lead me down a rabbit hole.

No thanks.

All I hear is quacking from all the ducking you're doing. Keep it up.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Its not a diversion. You are diverting by refusing to answer them.

So, can you please answer the two questions and stop ducking?

Where are your documents showing that Palestine was not a country?

You are the one ducking and diverting.

You are trying to lead me down a rabbit hole.

No thanks.

All I hear is quacking from all the ducking you're doing. Keep it up.

Where are your documents showing that Palestine was not a country?

That was the question.

Where is your answer?

 

[toastman]

How could they have been a country before 1988 when it was in 1988 that they became one???
If you need documents for this, then you have some issues Tinmore, and I dont mean that as an insult

 

[Phoenall]

Why should they have accepted something that was impracticable?

Yet you are demanding that Israel accept something now that is not just impracticable but suicide. The 1947 partinion plan is ancient history, as are the 67 ceasefire lines. Now we are in 2014 and the PLO has already granted Israel most of the west bank under the oslo accords, so live with the reality that Israel is in the west bank due to Palestinian stupidity.

The armistice lines never were borders.

Oslo was a five year framework toward a peace agreement. None of the proposals made in Oslo mean anything until a peace agreement is signed.

Partition has never been the solution. Partition has always been the problem.

Yet you constantly refer to the '67 borders as if they were, why is this.

WRONG as Israel implemented their part of the Oslo accords in August 2005 at the insistence of the Palestinians. See here for the main aspects of Oslo

Key agreements[edit]

Key agreements in the Oslo process were:
Israel–PLO letters of recognition (1993). Mutual recognition of Israel and the PLO.

The Oslo I Accord (1993). The "Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements", which declared the aim of the negotiations and set forth the framework for the interim period. Dissolution of the Israeli Civil Administration upon the inauguration of the Palestinian Legislative Council (Article VII).

The Gaza–Jericho Agreement or Cairo Agreement (1994). Partial Israeli withdrawal within three weeks from Gaza Strip and Jericho area, being the start of the five-year transitional period (Article V of Oslo I). Simultaneously transfer of limited power to the Palestinian Authority (PA), which was established in the same agreement.[4] Part of the Agreement was the Protocol on Economic Relations (Paris Protocol), which regulates the economic relationship between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, but in effect integrated the Palestinian economy into the Israeli one.[8] This agreement was superseded by the Oslo II Accord, except for Article XX (Confidence-Building Measures). Article XX dictated the release or turn over of Palestinian detainees and prisoners by Israel.

The Oslo II Accord (1995). Division of the West Bank into Areas, in effect fragmenting it into numerous enclaves and banning the Palestinians from some 60% of the West Bank. Redeployment of Israeli troops from Area A and from other areas through "Further Redeployments". Election of the Palestinian Legislative Council (Palestinian parlement, PLC), replacing the PA upon its inauguration. Deployment of Palestinian Police replacing Israeli military forces in Area A. Safe passage between West Bank and Gaza. Most importantly, start of negotiations on a final settlement of remaining issues, to be concluded before 4 May 1999.

All later agreements had the purpose to implement the former three key agreements


Agreed the UN should have went with the original plan devised and accepted by all parties, including the arab muslims, in 1920 at San Remo. This gave what is now known as Palestine in its entirety to the Jews as a homeland. The non Jews were offered re-location to another nation or Israeli citizenship

 

[Phoenall]

Now all you have to do is to get millions of Palestinians to believe that shit.

What did I say that was incorrect?? Why is it that the documented truth is 'shit' to you? What does convincing the Palestinians about the truth have to do with anything??

The document that created the mandate called Palestine a country ten times.

What documents do you have that contradicts this?

Which document was that then, the San Remo conference or the Conference of London ?

 

[Phoenall]

What did I say that was incorrect?? Why is it that the documented truth is 'shit' to you? What does convincing the Palestinians about the truth have to do with anything??

The document that created the mandate called Palestine a country ten times.

What documents do you have that contradicts this?

I have facts that prove Palestine became a sovereign nation in 1988.
Why would you ask me for documents that contradict what you said when you know Im right?
Why are you debating facts that are not up for debate?

He is counting the number of times the mandate for Palestine is mentioned as meaning it was a nation, and not an area on the map.

 

[Phoenall]

The document that created the mandate called Palestine a country ten times.

What documents do you have that contradicts this?

I have facts that prove Palestine became a sovereign nation in 1988.
Why would you ask me for documents that contradict what you said when you know Im right?
Why are you debating facts that are not up for debate?

I just asked you to post your "facts."

You ducked.

Here you go then

State of Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is about the state proclaimed in 1988 that later became an observer of the United Nations

Is Palestine now a state? - CBS News

So, is Palestine now a State?


Here's what the U.N.'s own charter, and international law have to say on the matter:


"The recognition of a new State or Government is an act that only other States and Governments may grant or withhold. It generally implies readiness to assume diplomatic relations. The United Nations is neither a State nor a Government, and therefore does not possess any authority to recognize either a State or a Government," according to the United Nations.


A state may be considered a state by other countries, but not be a member of the U.N. -- as is the case with the Holy See and Kosovo, for example. The United States recognizes 195 states, whereas there are only 193 members of the U.N.


U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Susan Rice made the U.S. government's stance on the Palestinians abundantly clear after Friday's vote, telling the assembly: "This resolution does not establish that Palestine is a state."

 

[Phoenall]

Well, yeah..I do.

The perpetrators of the Holocaust were Christians.

The biggest mass murderers of Jewish people, ever.

Times have changed, Sallow, in case you don't realize it. Are we in the U.S. not friends with Germany and Japan these days? Meanwhile, why not tell us who are mass murderers of innocent people in many areas of the world today? I don't think it is the Christians since they appear to be the most persecuted group today. However, why not take a chance and wander through some country where you would be considered an Infidel and see how you make out. You can always tell them that you are busy on forums demonizing their enemies and see how they react to that.

So it's "Holocaust Schmolocaust" times have changed, eh?

And the US just had a bloody ol' time in Iraq, recently..didn't they? The majority of the 100,000 or so people killed were done so by a nation that you cite as mostly Christian, right?

Christians, historically, view themselves as "persecuted", gin up the crimes, vilify a group of people and then massacre them. The Holocaust was not the first time this was done.

And apparently, not the last.

I have had this same argument before with ignorant anti semites who use Christianity as a hammer to crack a nut.

Can you provide one instance of American troops extolling GOD AS THEY WENT INTO BATTLE. You know like muslims do when they are on one of their murderfests and scream allahu ahkbar constantly as they murder, pillage and rape

 

[Phoenall]

you need me to post proof that palestine became a sovereign nation in 1988???????

no. That wasn't the question.

yes it was

 

[Phoenall]

Oookay.

But before we continue.

Jesus Christ is not your lord and savior, right?

He is NOT the messiah.

Agree or not?

NO I don't agree, I am a Christian from Britain. Burst your bubble didn't I

Of course you didn't burst my bubble.

I knew what you were from the jump.

And the Nazi tag fits you, chief. Moreso than it fits me.

I come from a family that has a good number of people who believe in the Jewish faith.

You really should be careful when you throw that tag around.

Makes you look like an idiot.

Then stop acting and posting like a NAZI ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATER

 

[Sallow]

NO I don't agree, I am a Christian from Britain. Burst your bubble didn't I

Of course you didn't burst my bubble.

I knew what you were from the jump.

And the Nazi tag fits you, chief. Moreso than it fits me.

I come from a family that has a good number of people who believe in the Jewish faith.

You really should be careful when you throw that tag around.

Makes you look like an idiot.

Then stop acting and posting like a NAZI ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATER

Posting that Israel should deal with it's neighbors in an equitable and diplomatic fashion is being a "Nazi"?

In CAPS!

Oh I see.

You folks are something else..seriously.

 

[Phoenall]

No. That wasn't the question.

Was Palestine a sovereign nation in 1947 ? YES OR NO?

Did Palestinian Arabs have any sovereignty over the entire land of Palestine? YES OR NO?

Those weren't the question either.

The right to self determination without external interference does not require sovereignty.

That is a useless question.

Which the Palestinians were offered and given every chance to put in place. They refused and brought in OUTSIDE INFLUENCE in the guise of the arab league. From then they have exercised their right to self determination by attacking Israel without any legal justification. Unless you can provide evidence to the contrary that says Israel is not a nation ?

 

[Sallow]

Times have changed, Sallow, in case you don't realize it. Are we in the U.S. not friends with Germany and Japan these days? Meanwhile, why not tell us who are mass murderers of innocent people in many areas of the world today? I don't think it is the Christians since they appear to be the most persecuted group today. However, why not take a chance and wander through some country where you would be considered an Infidel and see how you make out. You can always tell them that you are busy on forums demonizing their enemies and see how they react to that.

So it's "Holocaust Schmolocaust" times have changed, eh?

And the US just had a bloody ol' time in Iraq, recently..didn't they? The majority of the 100,000 or so people killed were done so by a nation that you cite as mostly Christian, right?

Christians, historically, view themselves as "persecuted", gin up the crimes, vilify a group of people and then massacre them. The Holocaust was not the first time this was done.

And apparently, not the last.

I have had this same argument before with ignorant anti semites who use Christianity as a hammer to crack a nut.

Can you provide one instance of American troops extolling GOD AS THEY WENT INTO BATTLE. You know like muslims do when they are on one of their murderfests and scream allahu ahkbar constantly as they murder, pillage and rape

Seriously?

BBC NEWS | Americas | US is 'battling Satan' says general

Evangelical Christian Lieutenant-General William G Boykin was also quoted as saying a Muslim warlord in Somalia had an "idol" for a God.

Secretary Rumsfeld, questioned by journalists, defended the general's statements as "a private affair".

Do you even bother to think about what you post?

 

[Phoenall]

Well, yeah..I do.

The perpetrators of the Holocaust were Christians.

The biggest mass murderers of Jewish people, ever.

And you would be wrong again as the German leaders were Satanists, and Hitler is alleged to have converted to islam.

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942

Which only proves that he was Christian warped by his Jew hated even then. Tony Blair was a Protestant right up until he resigned as Prime Minister and then he became a catholic. When Hitler came to power he was already a Satanist, and empowered his followers to devise a new German religion based on Aryan principles but with some Christianity thrown in.


Want to try again using his speeches from 1936 to 1945

 

[Phoenall]

It is only a diversion from the discussion. It has no meaning.

Its not a diversion. You are diverting by refusing to answer them.

So, can you please answer the two questions and stop ducking?

Where are your documents showing that Palestine was not a country?

You are the one ducking and diverting.

You are trying to lead me down a rabbit hole.

No thanks.

There are none as Palestine was not a country but was defined in the San Remo conference as an area of land to be partitioned into Lebanon, Syria, trans Jordan and a homeland for the Jews. No mention of a Palestinian state or nation to be incorporated into the plan. You try and hide the fact that the original area of Palestine included Lebanon, Syria, Trans Jordan and Israel. And that under the mandate the ruling powers could evict or re-locate people at will. If the world knew in 1947 what it knows now they would have stationed troops in the M.E with the remit to shoot to kill

 

[Phoenall]

Of course you didn't burst my bubble.

I knew what you were from the jump.

And the Nazi tag fits you, chief. Moreso than it fits me.

I come from a family that has a good number of people who believe in the Jewish faith.

You really should be careful when you throw that tag around.

Makes you look like an idiot.

Then stop acting and posting like a NAZI ANTI SEMITIC JEW HATER

Posting that Israel should deal with it's neighbors in an equitable and diplomatic fashion is being a "Nazi"?

In CAPS!

Oh I see.

You folks are something else..seriously.

But you don't, you demonise and discriminate against the Jews and Israel. When it is pointed out that Israel is prepared to talk you deny that they will. They start of with a solution they know will be rejected, that is how negotiations work, and eventually come to an agreement that is acceptable to all. It is the Palestinians and their stuck in the 7c mentality that are the problem, yet you blame Israel and cite instances of them defending their people as examples of their refusal to talk.

that is the actions of a Nazi anti-Semitic Jew hater in anyones book.

 

[Phoenall]

So it's "Holocaust Schmolocaust" times have changed, eh?

And the US just had a bloody ol' time in Iraq, recently..didn't they? The majority of the 100,000 or so people killed were done so by a nation that you cite as mostly Christian, right?

Christians, historically, view themselves as "persecuted", gin up the crimes, vilify a group of people and then massacre them. The Holocaust was not the first time this was done.

And apparently, not the last.

I have had this same argument before with ignorant anti semites who use Christianity as a hammer to crack a nut.

Can you provide one instance of American troops extolling GOD AS THEY WENT INTO BATTLE. You know like muslims do when they are on one of their murderfests and scream allahu ahkbar constantly as they murder, pillage and rape

Seriously?

BBC NEWS | Americas | US is 'battling Satan' says general

Evangelical Christian Lieutenant-General William G Boykin was also quoted as saying a Muslim warlord in Somalia had an "idol" for a God.

Secretary Rumsfeld, questioned by journalists, defended the general's statements as "a private affair".

Do you even bother to think about what you post?

Do you as I see no mention of the troops going into battle screaming GOD IS GOOD, GOD IS GREAT. One man is not a nation, and he has his personal demons to contend with.

Now find one instance of a Christian running into battle screaming GOD IS GOOD, GOD IS GREAT like the muslims do.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

And you would be wrong again as the German leaders were Satanists, and Hitler is alleged to have converted to islam.

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942

Which only proves that he was Christian warped by his Jew hated even then. Tony Blair was a Protestant right up until he resigned as Prime Minister and then he became a catholic. When Hitler came to power he was already a Satanist, and empowered his followers to devise a new German religion based on Aryan principles but with some Christianity thrown in.


Want to try again using his speeches from 1936 to 1945

Hitler and the Nazis killed Jews who had converted to Christianity, even a famous nun. People who had even one Jewish grandparent, on their father's side, were killed too. (Judaism is passed thru the mother's side.) It was a sick, "racial" issue with them.

 

[P F Tinmore]

How could they have been a country before 1988 when it was in 1988 that they became one???
If you need documents for this, then you have some issues Tinmore, and I dont mean that as an insult

1988 has no relevance to the question of the status of Palestine before the creation of Israel.

The documents that I have seen, and previously posted, say that it was a country.

You have not posted anything to refute that.