Abbas 'Diplomatic surprise' - Deadline for Israel to withdraw from WB

[Beelzebub]

The thing is you are a supremacist and a fascist in your outlook Kondor.

You are quite retarded in trying to advance the outdated concepts of Might is Right. But I can see that that is just about the only thing that Israel has going for it, once you have excluded the fantasy of a God who is already self confessed as jealous and cruel. (Not much of a god, I would say).

You are not just content to accept that people do extraordinarily terrible things to other people for selfish reasons, but you actively revel in it.

A Zionist is a person who supports Zionism. Zionism is a nationalist and political movement of people who support the establishment, now maintenance and expansion of a Zionist state in Palestine.

You do.

You are a Zionist.

There are many who don't benefit directly from the support they give, but they still actively support. That is the measure, not what profits they get from the enterprise.

The funny thing is that when the resistance and international pressure have made Israel untenable, all your Might Is Right logic switches the argument, and it becomes ok to punish and slaughter the European colonists until they feel the pressure to leave.

You are a very inhumane person Kondor. And so your choice of Zionism in appropriate.

 

[P F Tinmore]

...There! Kondor is being honest. Why can the rest of you Zionists not follow his example?

Kondor is also NOT a stakeholder nor a Zionist... merely a sympathetic observer.
...

Yes dear.

Ahhhhh, Bubbles...

I'm a mixed-breed Irish-German American, Roman Catholic in religious background, living in the far-flung suburbs of Chicago, with zero connection to Israel, with the vague exception of a nominally-Jewish brother-in-law, who hasn't been to temple in 30 years or more, and who doesn't concern himself overly much with Israel or the Middle East.

I am not a stakeholder.

True story.

Then I am curious as to why you hook your wagon to Israel.

My heritage is quite similar to yours yet I obviously have taken a different path.

 

[Daniyel]

Israel does "one-sided steps" all the time.
It seems to be Israel's game-plan to have two or three moves each turn, and begrudge Palestinians having any, and maneuvers them into "fight or surrender" as the only options.

Palestinians need to stop expecting Israel to play a fair game.
Every move they make diplomatically should be without regard to Israeli feelings or pressure.

Press on to the legal consequences and the societal and international consequences of Israel trying to always have the upper hand. And just do it.

When Israel behaves as badly as it does, you cannot hold off because they say they would not approve.

Good morning.
Now remind me one agreement or treaty the Palestinians actually kept?

Why would they keep a treaty when Israel drives a bulldozer though them as soon as they are signed?

Israel kept them all and this is a fact you...ignored..back to my question, what agreement or treaty the Palestinians kept?
You keep whining about Israel but when its time for the Palestinians to prove themselves - they fail, and you're claiming Israel "will" break the agreements or treaties to be signed in the future, although the past showed the complete opposite of that.
So don't bother to wait for anyone's help, you made your position based on these facts:

1.Israel kept all agreements and treaties signed with the Palestinians(At least most of them, you didn't bother to disprove that so lets go with 'all of them')

2.The Palestinians never kept any agreement or treaty with Israel.

And later on you actually expect Israel to sign ANOTHER treaty and withdraw from the WB, because THEN it will all be different.

See my point?

 

[Kondor3]

The thing is you are a supremacist and a fascist in your outlook Kondor...

This isn't about me.

It's about Israel, and its survival, and the defeat of their adversary, the Palestinians.

The Losers - the Palestinians, and their sympathizers, in this case - including yourself - have little else at their disposable, other than to throw brickbats, and to denigrate and falsely accuse their adversaries - a sort of consolation prize, for the Losers - so, enjoy yourself - have at it - have a field day - it doesn't impact me, or the truth, in the slightest.

...You are quite retarded in trying to advance the outdated concepts of Might is Right...

Outdated concept?

What planet are you living on?

Londonistan, most likely.

Complaining about might-makes-right is another favorite tactic of the Losing Side, during the End Game, so, DO feel free to continue your rantings in this vein.

...But I can see that that is just about the only thing that Israel has going for it, once you have excluded the fantasy of a God who is already self confessed as jealous and cruel. (Not much of a god, I would say)...

Only true Losers try to console themselves with such drivel.

Israel has a great deal going for it... certainly far more than the Losers in this confrontation - the Palestinians.

...You are not just content to accept that people do extraordinarily terrible things to other people for selfish reasons, but you actively revel in it...

I am content that the Jews reclaim their spiritual and ancestral homeland and that they displace the Muslims who stand in their way.

I also rejoice over each and every gain that they make, in pursuit of that goal, so long as they do not actually resort to en masse slaughter.

...A Zionist is a person who supports Zionism. Zionism is a nationalist and political movement of people who supports the establishment, now maintenance and expansion of a Zionist state in Palestine...

I support the creation and sustenance of a Jewish State of Israel, to the extent shown in the map of the 1922 Partition Plan for Palestine.

...You do. You are a Zionist...

That's nice.

...There are many who don't benefit directly from the support they give, but they still actively support. That is the measure, not what profits they get from the enterprise...

That's nice.

...The funny thing is that when the resistance and international pressure has made Israel untenable...

Only in your childish dreams, mine good colleague. It's over. It's been over for years. Rump Palestine has had it. Time to pack up, turn off the lights, and leave.

...all your Might Is Right logic switches the argument, and it becomes ok to punish and slaughter the European colonists until they feel the pressure to leave...

You(r side) can certainly try... you'll die trying, but, you can certainly try, if your (side's collective) brain becomes so addled that you actually come to believe that you can win. That will set the stage for a real slaughter of Palestinians that will make the casualties of Gaza War II seem like a drop in the bucket by comparison. I'd advise against it, by the way.

...You are a very inhumane person Kondor...

Nonsense.

If I was an inhumane person, I would be on here day and night, calling for the extermination and slaughter of every Palestinian man, woman and child in the West Bank and Gaza.

I wish for no such thing... I wish the well... I wish them long and happy and prosperous lives... wherever they choose to live, after leaving Rump Palestine.

Hell... I'd be delighted to see the US contribute heavily to a UN fund designed to compensate and relocate what is left of the Palestinians, to help them get a fresh start.

I'd love to see their families secure, and their children happy, and in school, and playing in safe streets, and at peace with the world.

It's just that they can't do that where they are now.

And that means that they have to go.

The sooner the world reaches that conclusion, and begins to act on it, the sooner we will be rewarded with such scenes.

That's not inhumane... that's partisanship, with very humane hopes and ambitions and end-goals in mind.

But first, the Gordian Knot of Palestinian relocation must be cut.

That's not inhumane... that's pure logic... it's simply that it's not a logical conclusion that you want to see materialize.

Oh well.

...And so your choice of Zionism in appropriate.

I like Jews better than I like Muslims.

So do most Westerners.

Especially after 9-11 and the London Tube Bombings.

No big deal.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel does "one-sided steps" all the time.
It seems to be Israel's game-plan to have two or three moves each turn, and begrudge Palestinians having any, and maneuvers them into "fight or surrender" as the only options.

Palestinians need to stop expecting Israel to play a fair game.
Every move they make diplomatically should be without regard to Israeli feelings or pressure.

Press on to the legal consequences and the societal and international consequences of Israel trying to always have the upper hand. And just do it.

When Israel behaves as badly as it does, you cannot hold off because they say they would not approve.

Good morning.
Now remind me one agreement or treaty the Palestinians actually kept?

Why would they keep a treaty when Israel drives a bulldozer though them as soon as they are signed?

Israel kept them all and this is a fact you...ignored..back to my question, what agreement or treaty the Palestinians kept?
You keep whining about Israel but when its time for the Palestinians to prove themselves - they fail, and you're claiming Israel "will" break the agreements or treaties to be signed in the future, although the past showed the complete opposite of that.
So don't bother to wait for anyone's help, you made your position based on these facts:

1.Israel kept all agreements and treaties signed with the Palestinians(At least most of them, you didn't bother to disprove that so lets go with 'all of them')

2.The Palestinians never kept any agreement or treaty with Israel.

And later on you actually expect Israel to sign ANOTHER treaty and withdraw from the WB, because THEN it will all be different.

See my point?

Just within the last week or so Israel killed an unarmed civilian in Gaza.

I thought they were under a ceasefire.

 

[Beelzebub]

1.Israel kept all agreements and treaties signed with the Palestinians(At least most of them, you didn't bother to disprove that so lets go with 'all of them')

2.The Palestinians never kept any agreement or treaty with Israel.

Ok:

Do you REALLY want to discuss this?
I mean, when you are proven wrong, which you are will you change your mind, will you reconsider Israel's crimes?
Will you realise that Israel is systematically against a negotiated agreement which places any limits on Israel other than total control of all of Palestine?

Really Danny boy, what are you prepared to put on the line over this question, because I don't willingly waste my time just so you can say, "Yeah, but I think you don't understand that Israel couldn't follow the agreement honestly."

 

[toastman]

So you admit its Israel's intention to sabotage any resolution.

Well done Daniyel. That's very honest of you.

As to your rationalisation: You make a fair peace, withdraw, even to just the 1967 borders (1948 would be better) and you just see how much support comes to Israel. You could shoot across those borders with the blessings of nearly everyone, while Palestinians would finally be told to get a life and enjoy it.

Even Israel's opponents outside of Palestine recognise it would be more trouble to cancel than to exist IF it was to stick to a territory limited by treaty. Of course, while you insist on sabotaging any just peace arrangements, there is no end to your mischief, so it makes more sense to cancel Israel.

How does one cancel a country ?

 

[toastman]

Israel does "one-sided steps" all the time.
It seems to be Israel's game-plan to have two or three moves each turn, and begrudge Palestinians having any, and maneuvers them into "fight or surrender" as the only options.

Palestinians need to stop expecting Israel to play a fair game.
Every move they make diplomatically should be without regard to Israeli feelings or pressure.

Press on to the legal consequences and the societal and international consequences of Israel trying to always have the upper hand. And just do it.

When Israel behaves as badly as it does, you cannot hold off because they say they would not approve.

Good morning.
Now remind me one agreement or treaty the Palestinians actually kept?

Why would they keep a treaty when Israel drives a bulldozer though them as soon as they are signed?

Israel kept them all and this is a fact you...ignored..back to my question, what agreement or treaty the Palestinians kept?
You keep whining about Israel but when its time for the Palestinians to prove themselves - they fail, and you're claiming Israel "will" break the agreements or treaties to be signed in the future, although the past showed the complete opposite of that.
So don't bother to wait for anyone's help, you made your position based on these facts:

1.Israel kept all agreements and treaties signed with the Palestinians(At least most of them, you didn't bother to disprove that so lets go with 'all of them')

2.The Palestinians never kept any agreement or treaty with Israel.

And later on you actually expect Israel to sign ANOTHER treaty and withdraw from the WB, because THEN it will all be different.

See my point?

Just within the last week or so Israel killed an unarmed civilian in Gaza.

I thought they were under a ceasefire.

And two Palestinians slaughtered 4 people in a synagogue with knives and axes.

 

[Beelzebub]

So you admit its Israel's intention to sabotage any resolution.

Well done Daniyel. That's very honest of you.

As to your rationalisation: You make a fair peace, withdraw, even to just the 1967 borders (1948 would be better) and you just see how much support comes to Israel. You could shoot across those borders with the blessings of nearly everyone, while Palestinians would finally be told to get a life and enjoy it.

Even Israel's opponents outside of Palestine recognise it would be more trouble to cancel than to exist IF it was to stick to a territory limited by treaty. Of course, while you insist on sabotaging any just peace arrangements, there is no end to your mischief, so it makes more sense to cancel Israel.

How does one cancel a country ?

Israel will be the first, so we will need to get some lawmakers onto it.
I expect an early step will be to reverse the UN recognition and UN member recognition of it as a state separate from Palestine.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Israel does "one-sided steps" all the time.
It seems to be Israel's game-plan to have two or three moves each turn, and begrudge Palestinians having any, and maneuvers them into "fight or surrender" as the only options.

Palestinians need to stop expecting Israel to play a fair game.
Every move they make diplomatically should be without regard to Israeli feelings or pressure.

Press on to the legal consequences and the societal and international consequences of Israel trying to always have the upper hand. And just do it.

When Israel behaves as badly as it does, you cannot hold off because they say they would not approve.

Good morning.
Now remind me one agreement or treaty the Palestinians actually kept?

Why would they keep a treaty when Israel drives a bulldozer though them as soon as they are signed?

Israel kept them all and this is a fact you...ignored..back to my question, what agreement or treaty the Palestinians kept?
You keep whining about Israel but when its time for the Palestinians to prove themselves - they fail, and you're claiming Israel "will" break the agreements or treaties to be signed in the future, although the past showed the complete opposite of that.
So don't bother to wait for anyone's help, you made your position based on these facts:

1.Israel kept all agreements and treaties signed with the Palestinians(At least most of them, you didn't bother to disprove that so lets go with 'all of them')

2.The Palestinians never kept any agreement or treaty with Israel.

And later on you actually expect Israel to sign ANOTHER treaty and withdraw from the WB, because THEN it will all be different.

See my point?

Just within the last week or so Israel killed an unarmed civilian in Gaza.

I thought they were under a ceasefire.

And two Palestinians slaughtered 4 people in a synagogue with knives and axes.

Israel always insists that agreements in Gaza do not apply to the West Bank.

 

[toastman]

So you admit its Israel's intention to sabotage any resolution.

Well done Daniyel. That's very honest of you.

As to your rationalisation: You make a fair peace, withdraw, even to just the 1967 borders (1948 would be better) and you just see how much support comes to Israel. You could shoot across those borders with the blessings of nearly everyone, while Palestinians would finally be told to get a life and enjoy it.

Even Israel's opponents outside of Palestine recognise it would be more trouble to cancel than to exist IF it was to stick to a territory limited by treaty. Of course, while you insist on sabotaging any just peace arrangements, there is no end to your mischief, so it makes more sense to cancel Israel.

How does one cancel a country ?

Israel will be the first, so we will need to get some lawmakers onto it.
I expect an early step will be to reverse the UN recognition and UN member recognition of it as a state separate from Palestine.

Stop dreaming Beezle. Wake up. Snap out of it. Israel is going nowhere, no matter how much hate you harbor .

 

[toastman]

Good morning.
Now remind me one agreement or treaty the Palestinians actually kept?

Why would they keep a treaty when Israel drives a bulldozer though them as soon as they are signed?

Israel kept them all and this is a fact you...ignored..back to my question, what agreement or treaty the Palestinians kept?
You keep whining about Israel but when its time for the Palestinians to prove themselves - they fail, and you're claiming Israel "will" break the agreements or treaties to be signed in the future, although the past showed the complete opposite of that.
So don't bother to wait for anyone's help, you made your position based on these facts:

1.Israel kept all agreements and treaties signed with the Palestinians(At least most of them, you didn't bother to disprove that so lets go with 'all of them')

2.The Palestinians never kept any agreement or treaty with Israel.

And later on you actually expect Israel to sign ANOTHER treaty and withdraw from the WB, because THEN it will all be different.

See my point?

Just within the last week or so Israel killed an unarmed civilian in Gaza.

I thought they were under a ceasefire.

And two Palestinians slaughtered 4 people in a synagogue with knives and axes.

Israel always insists that agreements in Gaza do not apply to the West Bank.

Are you making stuff up again ?

 

[toastman]

...There! Kondor is being honest. Why can the rest of you Zionists not follow his example?

Kondor is also NOT a stakeholder nor a Zionist... merely a sympathetic observer.
...

Yes dear.

Ahhhhh, Bubbles...

I'm a mixed-breed Irish-German American, Roman Catholic in religious background, living in the far-flung suburbs of Chicago, with zero connection to Israel, with the vague exception of a nominally-Jewish brother-in-law, who hasn't been to temple in 30 years or more, and who doesn't concern himself overly much with Israel or the Middle East.

I am not a stakeholder.

True story.

Then I am curious as to why you hook your wagon to Israel.

My heritage is quite similar to yours yet I obviously have taken a different path.

Because Kondor is not brainwashed like you and Beezle .

 

[P F Tinmore]

So you admit its Israel's intention to sabotage any resolution.

Well done Daniyel. That's very honest of you.

As to your rationalisation: You make a fair peace, withdraw, even to just the 1967 borders (1948 would be better) and you just see how much support comes to Israel. You could shoot across those borders with the blessings of nearly everyone, while Palestinians would finally be told to get a life and enjoy it.

Even Israel's opponents outside of Palestine recognise it would be more trouble to cancel than to exist IF it was to stick to a territory limited by treaty. Of course, while you insist on sabotaging any just peace arrangements, there is no end to your mischief, so it makes more sense to cancel Israel.

How does one cancel a country ?

Israel will be the first, so we will need to get some lawmakers onto it.
I expect an early step will be to reverse the UN recognition and UN member recognition of it as a state separate from Palestine.

Israel and international law cannot exist at the same time. When the world decides to enforce international law Israel will have to fold its tent.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Why would they keep a treaty when Israel drives a bulldozer though them as soon as they are signed?

Israel kept them all and this is a fact you...ignored..back to my question, what agreement or treaty the Palestinians kept?
You keep whining about Israel but when its time for the Palestinians to prove themselves - they fail, and you're claiming Israel "will" break the agreements or treaties to be signed in the future, although the past showed the complete opposite of that.
So don't bother to wait for anyone's help, you made your position based on these facts:

1.Israel kept all agreements and treaties signed with the Palestinians(At least most of them, you didn't bother to disprove that so lets go with 'all of them')

2.The Palestinians never kept any agreement or treaty with Israel.

And later on you actually expect Israel to sign ANOTHER treaty and withdraw from the WB, because THEN it will all be different.

See my point?

Just within the last week or so Israel killed an unarmed civilian in Gaza.

I thought they were under a ceasefire.

And two Palestinians slaughtered 4 people in a synagogue with knives and axes.

Israel always insists that agreements in Gaza do not apply to the West Bank.

Are you making stuff up again ?

No.

Look it up.

 

[toastman]

Israel kept them all and this is a fact you...ignored..back to my question, what agreement or treaty the Palestinians kept?
You keep whining about Israel but when its time for the Palestinians to prove themselves - they fail, and you're claiming Israel "will" break the agreements or treaties to be signed in the future, although the past showed the complete opposite of that.
So don't bother to wait for anyone's help, you made your position based on these facts:

1.Israel kept all agreements and treaties signed with the Palestinians(At least most of them, you didn't bother to disprove that so lets go with 'all of them')

2.The Palestinians never kept any agreement or treaty with Israel.

And later on you actually expect Israel to sign ANOTHER treaty and withdraw from the WB, because THEN it will all be different.

See my point?

Just within the last week or so Israel killed an unarmed civilian in Gaza.

I thought they were under a ceasefire.

And two Palestinians slaughtered 4 people in a synagogue with knives and axes.

Israel always insists that agreements in Gaza do not apply to the West Bank.

Are you making stuff up again ?

No.

Look it up.

But you are the one that made the claim.

 

[Kondor3]

...Then I am curious as to why you hook your wagon to Israel. My heritage is quite similar to yours yet I obviously have taken a different path.

Because, for as much as you perceive the Muslim-Arab Palestinians to be the underdog in this short-lived (only 66 years) situation...

I perceive the Jews to have been the underdog for the better part of 2000 years, and to have suffered so much more than the Palestinians so as to exceed them by several orders of magnitude...

I side with them because Christians and Muslims both have vast tracts of land, and entire nations, and ancient cities, that serve as the Spiritual Mothership and home-bases for those other faiths, but the Jews lost theirs some 1900 years ago, and had none, until 1948...

I side with them because I grew up sensitive to their horrific pain and their tribulations spread across the vast sprawl of many centuries of pogrom and slaughter and Dhimmitude.

I side with them because the pain of the Palestinians in the past 66 years is a drop in the bucket compared to that of the Jews.

I side with them because the Muslims of the region could not part with a tiny sliver carved out of the vast tracts of land that they hold, to let the Jews come home again.

I side with them because they kicked the Muslims' arses, good and proper, against frightful odds, time and again - demonstrating a long-lost, now-recovered ability to fight.

I side with them because - after so many generations of cowering in their isolated little enclaves - they found their courage again, to stand up and fight for themselves.

I side with them because - after so many generations of Dhimmitude and being obliged to hide in the shadows - they now stand like men again, in the open light of day.

I side with them because they managed to hold themselves together as a community of faith - and because they managed to keep sight of a goal (returning to the Holy Land) for nearly two millennia - the All-Time World Record Holders, for cohesion, faith, loyalty and dedication in the face of Diaspora and catastrophic persecution.

I side with them because I perceive the Jews - collectively - to have a measure of courage and character so far in excess of the Muslim-Arabs of Palestine so as to defy measurement.

And other reasons, I suppose, but that's good for a start.

If I were King of the World and if I could spare the Muslim-Arab Palestinians their trials and tribulations while still giving the Jews what they need, I would.

But I cannot.

The world is what it is.

In any situation where compromise is no longer possible and peaceful coexistence is no longer possible, one either walks away, or chooses a side.

I chose mine, long ago.

For the reasons outlined here, among others.

--------------------

You asked, and you got a straight answer.

See you on the barricades.

 

[Beelzebub]

Stop dreaming Beezle. Wake up. Snap out of it. Israel is going nowhere, no matter how much hate you harbor .

You wish.
Israel is unsustainable.
The guys up top know it, which is why they are in a constant panic about who to kill or what land to grab to try to make it stick.

As said earlier, you might have up to three generations. That would be as much as what 60 years, so you could be dead before it happens. But demographics and a desire to be seen as democratic will crush a hateful Israel, when a civilised Israel might have been cherished by the new majority.

But then again, it could happen in a rush of history, even in the next five years.

So yes, you might die before Israel does, or you might not.
But it will not be sustained. It has been standing on a precipice since 1948. Though it hasn't fallen the ground is now shaking.

 

[Beelzebub]

Interestingly the only Western states which have moved closer to fascism since WWII have been the USA and Israel.

All the others have moved away from it, becoming more liberal, less racist, more legally based.

And the US is weaker now than it has been since the 1960's.
Israel seems stronger militarily. But only because the US projects so much of its money and armaments there.

The moment the US officially either stops backing Israel, or becomes weaker than China / the EU in world influence, its over. And the US is still spending its way into more debt to China.

 

[toastman]

Stop dreaming Beezle. Wake up. Snap out of it. Israel is going nowhere, no matter how much hate you harbor .

You wish.
Israel is unsustainable.
The guys up top know it, which is why they are in a constant panic about who to kill or what land to grab to try to make it stick.

As said earlier, you might have up to three generations. That would be as much as what 60 years, so you could be dead before it happens. But demographics and a desire to be seen as democratic will crush a hateful Israel, when a civilised Israel might have been cherished by the new majority.

But then again, it could happen in a rush of history, even in the next five years.

So yes, you might die before Israel does, or you might not.
But it will not be sustained. It has been standing on a precipice since 1948. Though it hasn't fallen the ground is now shaking.

I know that you are not stupid enough to believe what you just wrote.
After nearly 7 decades of hearing the same garbage, it starts to lose any meaning. If Israel has proved one thing, it is that is very much a sustainable country surrounded by unsustainable countries. Like I said, your hate is clouding your judgment .