CDZ A very simple question

[MarathonMike]

Whether it's politics or business or personal relationships, how are we supposed to progress if we don't bother to fully and accurately understand the position of the other party?

Doesn't make sense to me.

There is a big difference between accurately understanding the position of the other party and empathizing with the other party. For example, I believe I accurately understand the Democrats motivation for Impeaching and removing President Trump. I refuse to empathize with them because I believe their motivations are based purely on regaining power they lost. Empathy means sharing someone else's feelings i.e. "feeling someone else's pain".

 

[Mac1958]

Sorry man.. It's depressing.. At least I don't have to worry about being their "co-dependent" anymore...

I refuse to empathize with them...

So for both of you: Would you say that your goal is to beat the other side so that you have control over where things go from there?

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?
.

 

[eagle1462010]

Sorry man.. It's depressing.. At least I don't have to worry about being their "co-dependent" anymore...

I refuse to empathize with them...

So for both of you: Would you say that your goal is to beat the other side so that you have control over where things go from there?

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?
.

I wasn't asked but beating the agenda of the Far Left is absolutely the plan. They want to shove their agenda down America's throats and they control the leading candidates except Biden in the next election. In the primaries the competition is to appease the Far left base which may compose now 25% of the Dem party. They have gone so far to the left that they can not be negotiated with anymore. The Blue Dogs are basically gone and the Dem has gone so far left that Dems are leaving the party.

You always say that it's BOTH WINGS doing this..........but when challenged time and time again on the comparison to the So Called Far Right you can't do it. Show me the same levels of Radicalism of the Right compared to the left............YOU CAN'T DO IT.........And you KNOW IT.

I could go all day long with examples of the left doing crazy and violent BS.........CAN YOU.....You do not want to go there because you WOULD LOSE.

 

[Mac1958]

Sorry man.. It's depressing.. At least I don't have to worry about being their "co-dependent" anymore...

I refuse to empathize with them...

So for both of you: Would you say that your goal is to beat the other side so that you have control over where things go from there?

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?
.

I wasn't asked but beating the agenda of the Far Left is absolutely the plan. They want to shove their agenda down America's throats and they control the leading candidates except Biden in the next election. In the primaries the competition is to appease the Far left base which may compose now 25% of the Dem party. They have gone so far to the left that they can not be negotiated with anymore. The Blue Dogs are basically gone and the Dem has gone so far left that Dems are leaving the party.

You always say that it's BOTH WINGS doing this..........but when challenged time and time again on the comparison to the So Called Far Right you can't do it. Show me the same levels of Radicalism of the Right compared to the left............YOU CAN'T DO IT.........And you KNOW IT.

I could go all day long with examples of the left doing crazy and violent BS.........CAN YOU.....You do not want to go there because you WOULD LOSE.

You're welcome to start a thread and tag me. I'll be happy to respond to any question you have.

For this thread, we're talking about something else. I'm not consumed by partisan ideology, so I'm curious about some things.
.

 

[eagle1462010]

Examples of the leadership of the Dem party...........Who the hell is the problem here Mac........The Dems love saying how the Right causes all the problems and how they cause a once and a while violent act.......Pravda Media all over the place to cause a NARRITIVE to cause OUTRAGE of their voter base.......Yet they are GUILTY OF FUELING THE FIRE of What we have today.

 

[eagle1462010]

Sorry man.. It's depressing.. At least I don't have to worry about being their "co-dependent" anymore...

I refuse to empathize with them...

So for both of you: Would you say that your goal is to beat the other side so that you have control over where things go from there?

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?
.

I wasn't asked but beating the agenda of the Far Left is absolutely the plan. They want to shove their agenda down America's throats and they control the leading candidates except Biden in the next election. In the primaries the competition is to appease the Far left base which may compose now 25% of the Dem party. They have gone so far to the left that they can not be negotiated with anymore. The Blue Dogs are basically gone and the Dem has gone so far left that Dems are leaving the party.

You always say that it's BOTH WINGS doing this..........but when challenged time and time again on the comparison to the So Called Far Right you can't do it. Show me the same levels of Radicalism of the Right compared to the left............YOU CAN'T DO IT.........And you KNOW IT.

I could go all day long with examples of the left doing crazy and violent BS.........CAN YOU.....You do not want to go there because you WOULD LOSE.

You're welcome to start a thread and tag me. I'll be happy to respond to any question you have.

For this thread, we're talking about something else. I'm not consumed by partisan ideology, so I'm curious about some things.
.

You want a discussion about EMPATHY for the other side............How do I do that with the Far Left......For Decades we IGNORED them and Wacks........and simply walked away and said NOTHING.......but they continued to grow and became what they are today. You KNOW IT Mac........The Dem party has been taken over by the Far Left because they need their votes in the primaries............The only real resemblance of sanity in the candidates running is BIDEN.........Because he's a career politicians embedded with the Establishment and Career Politicians who have made a Fortune from their influence in power........This is the same for the GOP as many there line their pockets via influence in the Gov't.

Which is the major problem today.......and why we need term limits.

 

[sparky]

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?

I would only opine on that some see extending empathy somewhat an exercise in futility Mac

Show me the same levels of Radicalism of the Right compared to the left............YOU CAN'T DO IT......

more , you can't SEE IT

You want a discussion about EMPATHY for the other side

No, Mac wants a discussion of the application & effectiveness of empathy , not some partisan rathole to serve as example

~S~

 

[Mac1958]

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?

I would only opine on that some see extending empathy somewhat an exercise in futility Mac

Definitely. And backing away from the fray to patiently & calmly empathize can be pretty challenging when someone is screaming in your freakin' face. Stipulated.

Yet I'm still trying to put my finger on this. If we agree that lacking empathy is not a good thing (and I know many here would not agree), I wonder how it happens. Is it a lack of intellectual curiosity? Is it intellectual laziness? Is it a function of the distortion of a tribal ideology? Or is it just the way we really are?

And does it progress, get worse, over time?

As one of the kids in the cafeteria just trying to eat their damn lunch during a food fight, these are questions that roll through my little brain as I chew.
.

 

[MarathonMike]

Sorry man.. It's depressing.. At least I don't have to worry about being their "co-dependent" anymore...

I refuse to empathize with them...

So for both of you: Would you say that your goal is to beat the other side so that you have control over where things go from there?

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?
.

Wait let's back up. You began the thread with what I believe is a redefinition of 'empathy' which is confusing, at least to me. The term 'empathy' connotes an understanding of someone else's pain or anguish. Like when Bill Clinton said "I feel your pain" he was empathizing with the people he was talking about.

In politics it is important IMO to understand the motivations of the other side. Democratic leaders are motivated by power and building their voting base by changing demographics. So me understanding their feelings is irrelevant. What is important IMO is putting the people in power who will do what is best for the country's future and young Americans having the same chance to improve their lives that I did.

 

[sparky]

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?

I would only opine on that some see extending empathy somewhat an exercise in futility Mac

Definitely. And backing away from the fray to patiently & calmly empathize can be pretty challenging when someone is screaming in your freakin' face. Stipulated.

I'm still trying to put my finger on this. If we agree that lacking empathy is not a good thing (and I know many here would not agree), I wonder how it happens. Is it a lack of intellectual curiosity? Is it intellectual laziness? Is it a function of the distortion of a tribal ideology? Or is it just the way we really are?

And does it progress, get worse, over time?

As one of the kids in the cafeteria just trying to eat their damn lunch during a food fight, these are questions that roll through my little brain as I chew.
.

perhaps empathy in the human experience gets lost in our complexities Mac

maybe viewing it from nature's application would be clearer

being an overgrown nature boy myself, i always thought the animal kingdom was far more honest in their display of emotion , vs humans with so many pretenses or hidden motives.

we've all seen this, the critters who would lick the wounds of the hurt ones...

what's in it for them? do they possess an ideology, sense of justice ,or critical thinking skills for either?

~S~

 

[Mac1958]

Sorry man.. It's depressing.. At least I don't have to worry about being their "co-dependent" anymore...

I refuse to empathize with them...

So for both of you: Would you say that your goal is to beat the other side so that you have control over where things go from there?

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?
.

Wait let's back up. You began the thread with what I believe is a redefinition of 'empathy' which is confusing, at least to me. The term 'empathy' connotes an understanding of someone else's pain or anguish. Like when Bill Clinton said "I feel your pain" he was empathizing with the people he was talking about.

In politics it is important IMO to understand the motivations of the other side. Democratic leaders are motivated by power and building their voting base by changing demographics. So me understanding their feelings is irrelevant. What is important IMO is putting the people in power who will do what is best for the country's future and young Americans having the same chance to improve their lives that I did.

My definition was based on a definition I read online. But I try to provide definitions (direct or indirect) to threads like this so at least we're operating from the same page. I wish that were a regular approach here, because most threads are a bunch of people screaming at each other using their own definitions for words like "racism" and "socialism".

In fact, come to think of it, that's a critical part of what's wrong with contemporary political discourse: Each tribe -- purposely, from what I can tell -- distorts the words and definitions of the other, specifically in order to more easily attack it, demean it, "beat" it. It's done so impulsively now that I'm not even sure they know they're doing it.

I don't see how this is constructive. I don't see how it leads to the collaboration required for innovation and advancement.

 

[Mac1958]

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?

I would only opine on that some see extending empathy somewhat an exercise in futility Mac

Definitely. And backing away from the fray to patiently & calmly empathize can be pretty challenging when someone is screaming in your freakin' face. Stipulated.

I'm still trying to put my finger on this. If we agree that lacking empathy is not a good thing (and I know many here would not agree), I wonder how it happens. Is it a lack of intellectual curiosity? Is it intellectual laziness? Is it a function of the distortion of a tribal ideology? Or is it just the way we really are?

And does it progress, get worse, over time?

As one of the kids in the cafeteria just trying to eat their damn lunch during a food fight, these are questions that roll through my little brain as I chew.
.

perhaps empathy in the human experience gets lost in our complexities Mac

maybe viewing it from nature's application would be clearer

being an overgrown nature boy myself, i always thought the animal kingdom was far more honest in their display of emotion , vs humans with so many pretenses or hidden motives.

we've all seen this, the critters who would lick the wounds of the hurt ones...

what's in it for them? do they possess an ideology, sense of justice ,or critical thinking skills for either?

~S~

Good stuff, thank you. Seriously, just a few minutes ago I was thinking about animals in this context.

It's like we're twisted in knots, so consumed with the noise that we're afraid to give an inch, afraid to venture out of our cage and honestly think about the other.
.

 

[eagle1462010]

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?

I would only opine on that some see extending empathy somewhat an exercise in futility Mac

Show me the same levels of Radicalism of the Right compared to the left............YOU CAN'T DO IT......

more , you can't SEE IT

You want a discussion about EMPATHY for the other side

No, Mac wants a discussion of the application & effectiveness of empathy , not some partisan rathole to serve as example

~S~

Why would I have Empathy for what the Far left have become.........his standard purpose is to push the Narritive that both sides are equal in the problem.........Not so........The Far Left have gone off the dead end and the SO CALLED RIGHT WING..........is as much a problem as them..........LOL

Why I ask for examples of how bad the right side of the equation is..............It is not......The Tea Party didn't need riot police at their demonstrations........They PEACEFULLY used their 1st Amendment Rights...............How is that EVEN CLOSE to what the Left has done in this country..........IT'S NOT.

 

[Mac1958]

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?

I would only opine on that some see extending empathy somewhat an exercise in futility Mac

Show me the same levels of Radicalism of the Right compared to the left............YOU CAN'T DO IT......

more , you can't SEE IT

You want a discussion about EMPATHY for the other side

No, Mac wants a discussion of the application & effectiveness of empathy , not some partisan rathole to serve as example

~S~

Why would I have Empathy for what the Far left have become.........his standard purpose is to push the Narritive that both sides are equal in the problem.........Not so........The Far Left have gone off the dead end and the SO CALLED RIGHT WING..........is as much a problem as them..........LOL

Why I ask for examples of how bad the right side of the equation is..............It is not......The Tea Party didn't need riot police at their demonstrations........They PEACEFULLY used their 1st Amendment Rights...............How is that EVEN CLOSE to what the Left has done in this country..........IT'S NOT.

I have never used the term "equal" to describe this. Not once, ever.

What I have said, a few thousand times or so, is that the sides can be very similar in their behaviors.
.

 

[eagle1462010]

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?

I would only opine on that some see extending empathy somewhat an exercise in futility Mac

Show me the same levels of Radicalism of the Right compared to the left............YOU CAN'T DO IT......

more , you can't SEE IT

You want a discussion about EMPATHY for the other side

No, Mac wants a discussion of the application & effectiveness of empathy , not some partisan rathole to serve as example

~S~

Why would I have Empathy for what the Far left have become.........his standard purpose is to push the Narritive that both sides are equal in the problem.........Not so........The Far Left have gone off the dead end and the SO CALLED RIGHT WING..........is as much a problem as them..........LOL

Why I ask for examples of how bad the right side of the equation is..............It is not......The Tea Party didn't need riot police at their demonstrations........They PEACEFULLY used their 1st Amendment Rights...............How is that EVEN CLOSE to what the Left has done in this country..........IT'S NOT.

I have never used the term "equal" to describe this. Not once, ever.

What I have said, a few thousand times or so, is that the sides can be very similar in their behaviors.
.

Your purpose is to push the Narrative that the Conservative side is to blame.......trying to push it towards equal which is NOT THE CASE......

The Far Left is Unhinged.........I can negotiate with you on policy even though you are left leaning........but with them there is NO NEGOTIATION...........You KNOW IT..........and I KNOW IT.

Why many are leaving them........from the Dems............When the Blue Dogs get the numbers back up you get back with me...............

 

[Mac1958]

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?

I would only opine on that some see extending empathy somewhat an exercise in futility Mac

Show me the same levels of Radicalism of the Right compared to the left............YOU CAN'T DO IT......

more , you can't SEE IT

You want a discussion about EMPATHY for the other side

No, Mac wants a discussion of the application & effectiveness of empathy , not some partisan rathole to serve as example

~S~

Why would I have Empathy for what the Far left have become.........his standard purpose is to push the Narritive that both sides are equal in the problem.........Not so........The Far Left have gone off the dead end and the SO CALLED RIGHT WING..........is as much a problem as them..........LOL

Why I ask for examples of how bad the right side of the equation is..............It is not......The Tea Party didn't need riot police at their demonstrations........They PEACEFULLY used their 1st Amendment Rights...............How is that EVEN CLOSE to what the Left has done in this country..........IT'S NOT.

I have never used the term "equal" to describe this. Not once, ever.

What I have said, a few thousand times or so, is that the sides can be very similar in their behaviors.
.

Your purpose is to push the Narrative that the Conservative side is to blame.......trying to push it towards equal which is NOT THE CASE......

The Far Left is Unhinged.........I can negotiate with you on policy even though you are left leaning........but with them there is NO NEGOTIATION...........You KNOW IT..........and I KNOW IT.

Why many are leaving them........from the Dems............When the Blue Dogs get the numbers back up you get back with me...............

I know that you believe it, and I know there is nothing I can say to either change your mind or soften your stance. That's why I don't bother trying.

And, ironically, I say the same thing to hardcore left wingers, too.

Can we get back to my thread now?
.

 

[eagle1462010]

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?

I would only opine on that some see extending empathy somewhat an exercise in futility Mac

Show me the same levels of Radicalism of the Right compared to the left............YOU CAN'T DO IT......

more , you can't SEE IT

You want a discussion about EMPATHY for the other side

No, Mac wants a discussion of the application & effectiveness of empathy , not some partisan rathole to serve as example

~S~

Why would I have Empathy for what the Far left have become.........his standard purpose is to push the Narritive that both sides are equal in the problem.........Not so........The Far Left have gone off the dead end and the SO CALLED RIGHT WING..........is as much a problem as them..........LOL

Why I ask for examples of how bad the right side of the equation is..............It is not......The Tea Party didn't need riot police at their demonstrations........They PEACEFULLY used their 1st Amendment Rights...............How is that EVEN CLOSE to what the Left has done in this country..........IT'S NOT.

I have never used the term "equal" to describe this. Not once, ever.

What I have said, a few thousand times or so, is that the sides can be very similar in their behaviors.
.

Your purpose is to push the Narrative that the Conservative side is to blame.......trying to push it towards equal which is NOT THE CASE......

The Far Left is Unhinged.........I can negotiate with you on policy even though you are left leaning........but with them there is NO NEGOTIATION...........You KNOW IT..........and I KNOW IT.

Why many are leaving them........from the Dems............When the Blue Dogs get the numbers back up you get back with me...............

I know that you believe it, and I know there is nothing I can say to either change your mind or soften your stance. That's why I don't bother trying.

And, ironically, I say the same thing to hardcore left wingers, too.

Can we get back to my thread now?
.

Implying I'm HARDCORE RIGHT as always............LOL

Yes......proceed with your thread.......LOL

 

[dblack]

I picked 4...........because I know the op is a fraud.....

Empathy............depends on the conversation at hand..........Empathy for the left and not calling them out for what they have become.............

Well............Not a chance in hell I would have Empathy for what they have become.

Why do you say he's a fraud?

You do realize there are extreme leftists who target him in their sig line, don't you?

Seems to me that if a person manages to piss off both extremes, they can't be all that bad. I like the fellow, myself.

That is a choice.......not mine..........long history of his posting here and he almost always sides with the left trying to say we are so called as bad as them for being conservatives......

When I ask for the grand examples of our side............he always spins ....twists...........and then finally goes well they are worse..............

But then he says we are the problem............so I think he is a fraud.........the left has gone off the deep end....and I have NO EMPATHY FOR THEM..........OR MAC.

I'll make this as clear and simple as I can.

You right wingers think that left wingers are the problem. Left wingers think that you right wingers are the problem.

I think that are the problem.

And I've pointed that out, about a zillion times, including the first, third and fifth lines of my sig.

This is as easy and simple as I can make it for you. You can pretend whatever you want, if it makes you feel better.
.

I guess it depends on what you mean by wingers. It seems you often use it as a label for anyone who argues from a strong, ideological point of view. But there's nothing about having a strong ideological viewpoint that precludes empathy and collaboration, and nothing about the lack of ideology that suggests someone will have empathy. Trump, for example, has no clear ideology (and is not consistently "right wing"), yet lacks any semblance of empathy and collaboration. On the other hand there are ideological purists who are ready, willing and able to reach across the aisle and collaborate (e.g. Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders).

 

[Mac1958]

I picked 4...........because I know the op is a fraud.....

Empathy............depends on the conversation at hand..........Empathy for the left and not calling them out for what they have become.............

Well............Not a chance in hell I would have Empathy for what they have become.

Why do you say he's a fraud?

You do realize there are extreme leftists who target him in their sig line, don't you?

Seems to me that if a person manages to piss off both extremes, they can't be all that bad. I like the fellow, myself.

That is a choice.......not mine..........long history of his posting here and he almost always sides with the left trying to say we are so called as bad as them for being conservatives......

When I ask for the grand examples of our side............he always spins ....twists...........and then finally goes well they are worse..............

But then he says we are the problem............so I think he is a fraud.........the left has gone off the deep end....and I have NO EMPATHY FOR THEM..........OR MAC.

I'll make this as clear and simple as I can.

You right wingers think that left wingers are the problem. Left wingers think that you right wingers are the problem.

I think that are the problem.

And I've pointed that out, about a zillion times, including the first, third and fifth lines of my sig.

This is as easy and simple as I can make it for you. You can pretend whatever you want, if it makes you feel better.
.

I guess it depends on what you mean by wingers. It seems you often use it as as label for anyone who argues from a strong, ideological point of view. But there's nothing about having a strong ideological viewpoint that precludes empathy and collaboration. Trump, for example, has no clear ideology (and is not consistently "right wing"), yet lacks any semblance of empathy can collaboration. On the other hand there are ideological purists who are ready, willing and able to reach across the aisle and collaborate (e.g. Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders).

I use the term "winger" as a description of behaviors, not opinions.

So within my little definition, a person can be an ideological purist while still being honest, civil and reasonable.
.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

And if so, do you think that's an plausible long-term plan?

I would only opine on that some see extending empathy somewhat an exercise in futility Mac

Show me the same levels of Radicalism of the Right compared to the left............YOU CAN'T DO IT......

more , you can't SEE IT

You want a discussion about EMPATHY for the other side

No, Mac wants a discussion of the application & effectiveness of empathy , not some partisan rathole to serve as example

~S~

Why would I have Empathy for what the Far left have become.........his standard purpose is to push the Narritive that both sides are equal in the problem.........Not so........The Far Left have gone off the dead end and the SO CALLED RIGHT WING..........is as much a problem as them..........LOL

Why I ask for examples of how bad the right side of the equation is..............It is not......The Tea Party didn't need riot police at their demonstrations........They PEACEFULLY used their 1st Amendment Rights...............How is that EVEN CLOSE to what the Left has done in this country..........IT'S NOT.

I have never used the term "equal" to describe this. Not once, ever.

What I have said, a few thousand times or so, is that the sides can be very similar in their behaviors.
.

Your purpose is to push the Narrative that the Conservative side is to blame.......trying to push it towards equal which is NOT THE CASE......

The Far Left is Unhinged.........I can negotiate with you on policy even though you are left leaning........but with them there is NO NEGOTIATION...........You KNOW IT..........and I KNOW IT.

Why many are leaving them........from the Dems............When the Blue Dogs get the numbers back up you get back with me...............

One can call an apple an orange but it's still an apple by any other name. You misuse the words Liberal and Conservative on a daily basis. The Extremes that generally post in here are of neither one. They (and I include you in one half of that group) are something else entirely and it's difficult to put a label to either group. But Liberal and Conservative are not either group.