A Tale Of Two Autos....

[Jarlaxle]

A) I believe in facts- you moron dupes brainwashed by Rush/Sean politicized the Volt, OBVIOUSLY. It's a great car, stupid.
B) What hybrid trucks were those, BSer?

GM offered a hybrid Silverado pickup starting in 2004. It was dropped in 2008...another was offered starting in 2009. They sold like coldcakes & will likely be dropped when the redesigned 2013 Silverado is introduced.

 

[francoHFW]

PUHLEEEZE! Wiki:

Silverado Hybrid

The engine compartment of a 2006 GMC Sierra HybridGM launched a hybrid version of the Silverado/Sierra in 2004, becoming the first ever GM hybrid passenger vehicle. Known within GM as the Parallel Hybrid Truck or PHT it is not actually a parallel hybrid by the current definition, but a type of micro hybrid design. The electric motor housed within the transmission flywheel housing, serves only to provide engine cranking/starting, battery charging, and powering accessories. The engine automatically shuts down as the truck comes to a stop and uses 42 Volt electric power to the starter/generator unit to restart the engine as the brake pedal is released. Besides the typical 12 V automotive battery the PHT uses three additional 12 V valve regulated lead acid (VRLA) batteries mounted under the rear seat to store and provide power. The truck uses a 5.3 L Vortec 5300 V8 for primary propulsion power.

The PHT features four 120 volt 20 amp AC outlets, two in the bed and two inside the cab under the rear seat. These are particularly interesting to the building/construction contractor market, since they often require AC power when on the job. Additionally, the extra reserves of power for the accessories make this truck well-suited to that market, where trucks often sit at idle for hours at a time.

Availability was extremely limited at first, with commercial buyers getting the first allotment. Later in 2005, the truck was offered at retail in Alaska, California, Florida, Nevada, Oregon, Washington and Canada. For 2006-07 the truck was generally available to retail buyers throughout North America. The Parallel Hybrid Truck was discontinued for the 2008 model year with the release of the GMT900 truck line. Starting in 2009, General Motors offers a second generation Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra equipped with a Two-Mode Hybrid powertrain and 4-speed CVT.[6]

Sorry, that POS half measure doesn't count. I believe when they make a real hybrid it'll do just fine. LOL

 

[PoliticalChic]

The heater might need some work, but early "lack of interest" just might have had something to do with a gigantic tidal wave of Pub misinformation. I remember the networks reporting the Rushcrappe that Volts were costing 278k per car, they were catchin fire all over the place etc etc. NOW they're selling great, even without any dupes buying them.

Thanks for clever argument, BUT GM says all these RW cost estimates are total BS. The target group is people who commute less than 25 miles. Then they never have to buy gas. Road testers say 35-45 mpg runnig on the gas generator.

It's a great car, and the Pub propaganda machine has demonized it. As we know, anything Obama does is 180 degrees wrong, no matter WHAT LOL. Assume the position for the election.

"As we know, anything Obama does is 180 degrees wrong, no matter WHAT"


That is not true!!!


YOU LYING LIAR!!!!!



How often have I pointed out the great bit he does.....when he comes down the steps from Air Force One.....where he tucks his little elbows in and does that impression
of Tyrannosaurus rex!!!!




I love, love, love it!!!




Sure am gonna miss that little act after January.

 

[francoHFW]

Quite an alternative universe the Pub propaganda machine has constructed for you chumps of the greedy rich, in this case oil men.

Every RW "fact" except the Volt's heater is a weakness is pure Pubcrappe. The Silverado Hybrid above is no hybrid at all. Are Pubs and dupes EVER right? Ay caramba!

 

[francoHFW]

Bumps for chumps...

 

[Jarlaxle]

Quite an alternative universe the Pub propaganda machine has constructed for you chumps of the greedy rich, in this case oil men.

Every RW "fact" except the Volt's heater is a weakness is pure Pubcrappe. The Silverado Hybrid above is no hybrid at all. Are Pubs and dupes EVER right? Ay caramba!

Actually, the 2009-2012 Silvy hybrid IS a full hybrid (the first generation truck was not)...but why let FACTS get in the way of your BS?

Of course, my truck matches the mileage of the hybrid Silverado...and it is a much more capable vehicle in all respects! (It will tow twice as much without breaking a sweat.)

 

[thereisnospoon]

PUHLEEEZE! Wiki:

Silverado Hybrid

The engine compartment of a 2006 GMC Sierra HybridGM launched a hybrid version of the Silverado/Sierra in 2004, becoming the first ever GM hybrid passenger vehicle. Known within GM as the Parallel Hybrid Truck or PHT it is not actually a parallel hybrid by the current definition, but a type of micro hybrid design. The electric motor housed within the transmission flywheel housing, serves only to provide engine cranking/starting, battery charging, and powering accessories. The engine automatically shuts down as the truck comes to a stop and uses 42 Volt electric power to the starter/generator unit to restart the engine as the brake pedal is released. Besides the typical 12 V automotive battery the PHT uses three additional 12 V valve regulated lead acid (VRLA) batteries mounted under the rear seat to store and provide power. The truck uses a 5.3 L Vortec 5300 V8 for primary propulsion power.

The PHT features four 120 volt 20 amp AC outlets, two in the bed and two inside the cab under the rear seat. These are particularly interesting to the building/construction contractor market, since they often require AC power when on the job. Additionally, the extra reserves of power for the accessories make this truck well-suited to that market, where trucks often sit at idle for hours at a time.

Availability was extremely limited at first, with commercial buyers getting the first allotment. Later in 2005, the truck was offered at retail in Alaska, California, Florida, Nevada, Oregon, Washington and Canada. For 2006-07 the truck was generally available to retail buyers throughout North America. The Parallel Hybrid Truck was discontinued for the 2008 model year with the release of the GMT900 truck line. Starting in 2009, General Motors offers a second generation Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra equipped with a Two-Mode Hybrid powertrain and 4-speed CVT.[6]

Sorry, that POS half measure doesn't count. I believe when they make a real hybrid it'll do just fine. LOL

So it didn't work very well. It didn't sell. GM has little interest.......The story you C&P'd gave me a headache................Nonsense. All of it.

 

[francoHFW]

A 21 mpg hybrid is going nowhere. They should have used a six or something. The Volt is a lot better thought out...If they build an elecrtic pickup with a gas generator, THAT might be interesting. Electric motors have good torque, right?

Volt is now selling great, and the RW cost estimates and fire stories, etc were PUBCRAPPE. As always...

 

[Erand7899]

Ask the preferred first line creditors if they believe the rule of law should have prevailed instead of the rule of Obama pimping to the unions.
Bankruptcy would have REORGANIZED Chrysler and GM and allowed them to dump some of the absurd Cadillac retired entitlements they are burdened with AND negotiate with each and every creditor.
And kept government AND the taxpayer out of the loop which should have happened FIRST and in most cases always.
Do not have a problem with the losses on the Volt. Many companies lose big time $$ on innovation for many years. I lost $$ the first few years of each of the 3 corporations I own now.
It is called RISK and reward.
Additionally, how else does one road test new technology without getting it on the road and not the test track?

Those are human beings you want to DUMP. Those retirements were SIGNED agreements.

You 'claim' to be a businessman. I sold construction equipment to thousands of businesses from large corporations to mom and pop backhoe services. And there is one constant I have seen in my 20+ years of dealing with businesses. The successful businesses value their employees and the failing businesses view them as property. And the real lesson is never apparent to these businessmen who fail...

A business that doesn't value employees will ultimately not value their customers.

Very true, every business should value their employees, but failing businesses need to also value the people who invested their money in the business. Tradeoffs are made for the purpose of keeping the business in business. If the business is liguidated, both the investors and employees lose just about everything. Consequently, it is in the best financial interests of both the investors and the employees to make sacrifices to keep the business in business.

Thousands of businesses have failed during this recession, and millions have lost their jobs. Why are GM and Chrysler employees more valuable to America than all of these other employees, who government did not deem to rescue? I'll give you a hint, the initials are UAW, a big contributor to Obama and other Democrats.

Government did not bail out either Chrysler or GM, since both went into bankrupcy anyway. The government bailed out the UAW.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Ask the preferred first line creditors if they believe the rule of law should have prevailed instead of the rule of Obama pimping to the unions.
Bankruptcy would have REORGANIZED Chrysler and GM and allowed them to dump some of the absurd Cadillac retired entitlements they are burdened with AND negotiate with each and every creditor.
And kept government AND the taxpayer out of the loop which should have happened FIRST and in most cases always.
Do not have a problem with the losses on the Volt. Many companies lose big time $$ on innovation for many years. I lost $$ the first few years of each of the 3 corporations I own now.
It is called RISK and reward.
Additionally, how else does one road test new technology without getting it on the road and not the test track?

Those are human beings you want to DUMP. Those retirements were SIGNED agreements.

You 'claim' to be a businessman. I sold construction equipment to thousands of businesses from large corporations to mom and pop backhoe services. And there is one constant I have seen in my 20+ years of dealing with businesses. The successful businesses value their employees and the failing businesses view them as property. And the real lesson is never apparent to these businessmen who fail...

A business that doesn't value employees will ultimately not value their customers.

Very true, every business should value their employees, but failing businesses need to also value the people who invested their money in the business. Tradeoffs are made for the purpose of keeping the business in business. If the business is liguidated, both the investors and employees lose just about everything. Consequently, it is in the best financial interests of both the investors and the employees to make sacrifices to keep the business in business.

Thousands of businesses have failed during this recession, and millions have lost their jobs. Why are GM and Chrysler employees more valuable to America than all of these other employees, who government did not deem to rescue? I'll give you a hint, the initials are UAW, a big contributor to Obama and other Democrats.

Government did not bail out either Chrysler or GM, since both went into bankrupcy anyway. The government bailed out the UAW.

...and another reason to revisit Article I, section 8, the enumerated powers.


Government should mind its own business....literally.

 

[Freewill]

The Volt's problem is very simple.

Based on its cost and perceived benefits, people willing to spend that amount of money are buying something else instead.

Why GM didn't learn this from market research prior to investing countless millions of dollars in R&D and factory retooling for production tells you all you need to know about their inept management.

Had they reorganized under normal bankruptcy proceedings they'd be far better positioned today for the future.

In my opinion they did this because Obama told them too or else. This is a liberal wet dream. Along with shutting down fossil electric plants which are the ones that will charge the volt. Incredible bit of poor planning.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Volt's problem is very simple.

Based on its cost and perceived benefits, people willing to spend that amount of money are buying something else instead.

Why GM didn't learn this from market research prior to investing countless millions of dollars in R&D and factory retooling for production tells you all you need to know about their inept management.

Had they reorganized under normal bankruptcy proceedings they'd be far better positioned today for the future.

In my opinion they did this because Obama told them too or else. This is a liberal wet dream. Along with shutting down fossil electric plants which are the ones that will charge the volt. Incredible bit of poor planning.

Wasn't it about the same time that the government investigated Toyota for some sort of instant speeding.....turned out to be driver error.

Coincidence?

 

[Jroc]

The Volt's problem is very simple.

Based on its cost and perceived benefits, people willing to spend that amount of money are buying something else instead.

Why GM didn't learn this from market research prior to investing countless millions of dollars in R&D and factory retooling for production tells you all you need to know about their inept management.

Had they reorganized under normal bankruptcy proceedings they'd be far better positioned today for the future.

In my opinion they did this because Obama told them too or else. This is a liberal wet dream. Along with shutting down fossil electric plants which are the ones that will charge the volt. Incredible bit of poor planning.

The Volt had been in development years before Obama. Living in metro Detroit, I heard a local interview with Bob Lutz who confirmed that. Of course Obama pushed it with his tax credits, the rest of your post I agree with.

 

[Bfgrn]

The Volt's problem is very simple.

Based on its cost and perceived benefits, people willing to spend that amount of money are buying something else instead.

Why GM didn't learn this from market research prior to investing countless millions of dollars in R&D and factory retooling for production tells you all you need to know about their inept management.

Had they reorganized under normal bankruptcy proceedings they'd be far better positioned today for the future.

In my opinion they did this because Obama told them too or else. This is a liberal wet dream. Along with shutting down fossil electric plants which are the ones that will charge the volt. Incredible bit of poor planning.

Wasn't it about the same time that the government investigated Toyota for some sort of instant speeding.....turned out to be driver error.

Coincidence?

Driver error? Really PC. Do you really believe that?

Toyota Sudden Acceleration Document Withheld From Feds: CNN

 

[Gadawg73]

In my opinion they did this because Obama told them too or else. This is a liberal wet dream. Along with shutting down fossil electric plants which are the ones that will charge the volt. Incredible bit of poor planning.

Wasn't it about the same time that the government investigated Toyota for some sort of instant speeding.....turned out to be driver error.

Coincidence?

Driver error? Really PC. Do you really believe that?

Toyota Sudden Acceleration Document Withheld From Feds: CNN

Driver error is always the first defense from the manufacturers and insurance companies. Having investigated, conducted accident reconstruction and taken numerous of these sudden acceleration cases to trial I have seen how the "it was driver error" con is bought hook, line and sinker by the dumb asses in American society. All of the cases I have worked on have setted the day or before trial but the manufacturers and the insurance carriers of some of their parts' vendors can always depend on a few ignorant and uninformed folks that may end up on a jury to believe "driver error".
Most all of the Toyota problems are when braking the acceleration starts, floor mats which slips, buildup of moisture which slow or disable commands and other problems fully supported by dozens of electronic studies on the tin whiskers which cripple communications of the command functions in modern autos. Even worse is the incompetence of the NSA in some of these studies.
The Ford Explorer has also had these problems in their cruise control sticking.
Take a wild guess what defense they used first in their answer to all of those lawsuits.
"Driver error".

 

[BlindBoo]

The investment will begin to pay off in the near future for GM.

Of course this has been explained to the public and most normal people understand........

Not so much for the Die Hard Angry Anti-American folks in the Republican party.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The investment will begin to pay off in the near future for GM.

Of course this has been explained to the public and most normal people understand........

Not so much for the Die Hard Angry Anti-American folks in the Republican party.

Karnak speaks: "The investment will begin to pay off in the near future for GM."


Constitution Day (or Citizenship Day) is an American federal observance that recognizes the adoption of the United States Constitution and those who have become U.S. citizens. It is observed on September 17, the day the U.S. Constitutional Convention signed the Constitution in 1787.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Day_(United_States)

Today is "Constitution Day."
Do you agree that the Constitution is the law of the land?

Where does the Constitution say the government should invest in private companies?

 

[BlindBoo]

The investment will begin to pay off in the near future for GM.

Of course this has been explained to the public and most normal people understand........
Not so much for the Die Hard Angry Anti-American folks in the Republican party.

Karnak speaks: "The investment will begin to pay off in the near future for GM."


Constitution Day (or Citizenship Day) is an American federal observance that recognizes the adoption of the United States Constitution and those who have become U.S. citizens. It is observed on September 17, the day the U.S. Constitutional Convention signed the Constitution in 1787.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Day_(United_States)

Today is "Constitution Day."
Do you agree that the Constitution is the law of the land?

Where does the Constitution say the government should invest in private companies?

GM was heading for liquidation. Manufacturing in a strategic assest that we do not want to lose and we didn't.

Here is a list of the WWII General Motors War Material Production 1940-45:

198,000 Diesel engines for tanks & landing craft
206,000 Airplane engines
13,000 Complete bombers and fighter planes
97,000 Aircraft propellors
301,000 Aircraft gyroscopes
38,000 Tanks, tank destroyers and armored vehicles
854,000 Trucks, including amhibious DUKWs
190,000 Cannons
1,900,000 Machine guns and submachine guns
3,142,000 Carbines
3,826,000 Electric motors
11,111,000 Fuses
360,000,000 Ball and roller bearings
119,562,000 Shells
39,181,000 Cartridge cases

Read more: Did General Motors build trucks for world war 2

 

[PoliticalChic]

The investment will begin to pay off in the near future for GM.

Of course this has been explained to the public and most normal people understand........
Not so much for the Die Hard Angry Anti-American folks in the Republican party.

Karnak speaks: "The investment will begin to pay off in the near future for GM."


Constitution Day (or Citizenship Day) is an American federal observance that recognizes the adoption of the United States Constitution and those who have become U.S. citizens. It is observed on September 17, the day the U.S. Constitutional Convention signed the Constitution in 1787.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Day_(United_States)

Today is "Constitution Day."
Do you agree that the Constitution is the law of the land?

Where does the Constitution say the government should invest in private companies?

GM was heading for liquidation. Manufacturing in a strategic assest that we do not want to lose and we didn't.

Here is a list of the WWII General Motors War Material Production 1940-45:

198,000 Diesel engines for tanks & landing craft
206,000 Airplane engines
13,000 Complete bombers and fighter planes
97,000 Aircraft propellors
301,000 Aircraft gyroscopes
38,000 Tanks, tank destroyers and armored vehicles
854,000 Trucks, including amhibious DUKWs
190,000 Cannons
1,900,000 Machine guns and submachine guns
3,142,000 Carbines
3,826,000 Electric motors
11,111,000 Fuses
360,000,000 Ball and roller bearings
119,562,000 Shells
39,181,000 Cartridge cases

Read more: Did General Motors build trucks for world war 2

"GM was heading for liquidation."

So?


That doesn't mean what you think it means.

Worst case, parts of the company sold to entities that could do a better job with 'em.


Don't care to discuss the weight of the Constitution in the matter?
I understand.


Happy Constitution Day to you anyway.

 

[BlindBoo]

Karnak speaks: "The investment will begin to pay off in the near future for GM."


Constitution Day (or Citizenship Day) is an American federal observance that recognizes the adoption of the United States Constitution and those who have become U.S. citizens. It is observed on September 17, the day the U.S. Constitutional Convention signed the Constitution in 1787.[2]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_Day_(United_States)

Today is "Constitution Day."
Do you agree that the Constitution is the law of the land?

Where does the Constitution say the government should invest in private companies?

GM was heading for liquidation. Manufacturing in a strategic assest that we do not want to lose and we didn't.

Here is a list of the WWII General Motors War Material Production 1940-45:

198,000 Diesel engines for tanks & landing craft
206,000 Airplane engines
13,000 Complete bombers and fighter planes
97,000 Aircraft propellors
301,000 Aircraft gyroscopes
38,000 Tanks, tank destroyers and armored vehicles
854,000 Trucks, including amhibious DUKWs
190,000 Cannons
1,900,000 Machine guns and submachine guns
3,142,000 Carbines
3,826,000 Electric motors
11,111,000 Fuses
360,000,000 Ball and roller bearings
119,562,000 Shells
39,181,000 Cartridge cases

Read more: Did General Motors build trucks for world war 2

"GM was heading for liquidation."

So?


That doesn't mean what you think it means.

Worst case, parts of the company sold to entities that could do a better job with 'em.


Don't care to discuss the weight of the Constitution in the matter?
I understand.


Happy Constitution Day to you anyway.

The Consitution didn't weigh in on the matter at all. The government has a long history of bailing out private industry.