A Take on Occupy Wall Street

[Katzndogz]

Does the left really think that if they keep saying the Tea Party is against Wall Street that will eventually make it true? Does the left really believe that the agenda of both groups is the same?

It would be very interesting to hear the lies the left tells themselves to lead them to this absurd conclusion.

 

[mudwhistle]

And yet when the Tea party started PEACEFULLY and for the sole purpose of utilizing the Constitutional right to vote, what exactly was your "feelings" then?

The same, in fact the Tea Party has every right and still does to this day to do the exact same. I don't see much difference between the two other than the issues they wish to be heard to be quite honest.

The purpose of "Occupy Wall Street" has never been to be peaceful or to simply to protest. The only reason it didn't turn more violent than it did is because security was sufficient to ban the sparse crowds from entering the premises in a similar manner of the Wisconsin statehouse occupation. This time they were ready for these squatters. They were hoping to take over a building or two, stay warm and raise hell from inside. Instead they're stuck outside and as the cold weather starts moving in it will clear the temporary homeless out.

Their purpose is in the name. They wanted to move in and occupy the offices of Wall Street brokerages and make business for those banks and offices impossible. The goals were laid out in their advert stating they fully intend on ending Capitalism in America, but they tried to put it in flowery terms that makes it sound cool and peaceful, using words like "Democracy" which is just another word progressives use for "Mob Rule".

 

[Katzndogz]

Today's left is trying to recreate history. They want to take over and occupy private business the way the students took over university offices in the 60s. Never realizing that the only reason they were able to take over those offices was because they were allowed to. They can't believe that today they can't take over what they want to take over.

 

[mudwhistle]

Does the left really think that if they keep saying the Tea Party is against Wall Street that will eventually make it true? Does the left really believe that the agenda of both groups is the same?

It would be very interesting to hear the lies the left tells themselves to lead them to this absurd conclusion.

Democrats have this strange habit of making their shortcomings the right's shortcomings.

They figure there are so many misinformed Democrat voters out there that they aren't able to figure out the cause of a problem.

All they have to do is lie long enough to make it stick.

It's called "Availability Cascading". It's an idea that Obama regulatory czar Cass Sunstein came up with.

Start a rumor, repeat it often enough and it becomes reality.

 

[Katzndogz]

The OWS (bowel) movement runs one HUGE risk. They are proving themselves to be whineing little parasites who exist for their own entertainment. The majority could well look at them critically, at their filth, sloth and indolence and decide "What do we need you for?" This is a monumental albatross that needs the same care and feeding as infants with a tantrum. Right now they are mildly irritating. When the people get tired of it, the OWS will be sent to their rooms, or Mommy's basement, to reflect on their ways.

 

[mudwhistle]

The OWS (bowel) movement runs one HUGE risk. They are proving themselves to be whineing little parasites who exist for their own entertainment. The majority could well look at them critically, at their filth, sloth and indolence and decide "What do we need you for?" This is a monumental albatross that needs the same care and feeding as infants with a tantrum. Right now they are mildly irritating. When the people get tired of it, the OWS will be sent to their rooms, or Mommy's basement, to reflect on their ways.

I don't fault the protesters that showed up. I fault the organizers.

 

[Katzndogz]

They don't have much in organization. They are controlled by Twitter and Facebook. The numbers at the protest sites have grown because the sites are attracting the homeless and criminals.

 

[tinydancer]

Despite my objections about the cluelessness of the OWS movement to date, I am more supportive of the OWS movment today than I was when it started.

The very fact that its making so many of this board right wing trolls nuts amuses the heck out of me.

You can read how nervous this really makes then from the senseless vitriol in their posts.

Anything that so pisses off these lying sacks of shit can't be all bad.

herein lies the difference.

when I took to the streets against the draft and I'm going to very specific here, I cared. I lived those days. And we marched. And we didn't shit on anyone else who had a different point of view. We could elaborate and turn around millions who helped us in the end.

These kids are asswipes. They think they are doing woodstock. It's pathetic at this point and lamo as my son would say.

They are all a joke. Another big failure promo by let me tell you who.....Axelrod.

Dave if you are out there, man you are sucking.

 

[tinydancer]

...... While many may not agree with me here, I for one admire all those young people, for taking part in the very nation they live and while I may not agree with everything they stand for, they are exercising a right that many who wore a uniform to defend, and in a small way it gives me hope that this young generation loves the nation as much as all those who came before them.

Of course I agree with much of what you've said: However, I do not agree that these demonstrations have anything to do with, "this young generation loves the nation," founded upon individual liberty.

Few know what they are demonstrating, however, it is not hard to conclude that most are unemployed, or have been underemployed for an extended period, and are disgruntled with a "system" that isn't "fair."

Nations designed to be "fair" for eveyone fail.

Their is nothing in the US constitution that guarantees that all citizens will receive whatever each deems is "fair." It, and our federal laws, DO promote the possibility that no citizen will be handicapped by race, gender, etc., in pursuit of their INDIVIDUAL aspirations.

Many of "this young generation" are demonstrating their immaturity. Rather than improvising, perservering, and overcomming adversity, they seem to need Weening off the Government Tit, and a Diaper Change.

I'm a dual citizen so I have a unique perspective. (Canada/United States of America)

I liked typing that out.

To me America is the dream. Not an equalizer. You can get that jack shit all over the world.

America is a dream. Where you can go from the most poor person on the planet and become a success that is like a guy from Dave from Wendy's.

America is a dream. From coast to coast and from any environment one can make it.

I don't care what the protestors want. They are like the horrid Kurt Vonnegut story where they want to tie down the ballerinas feet with cinder blocks so none of us can dance like her.

So to make everyone equal they hurt the ballerina and then no one could dance.

 

[tinydancer]

Does anyone else remember "Harrison Bergeron" or am I alone?

Maybe we should make this 101 for the idiot McCains and the Lindsays of the universe to understand what we are facing from the left.

 

[Navy1960]

Judson Phillips, a Tennessee attorney and organizer of the convention, says the tea-party movement, disparate as it is, includes many people "who believe that Congress pays far too much attention to Wall Street and not enough attention to Main Street." Tea-party rallies, he says, draw a lot of small businessmen and women frustrated at their own inability to get capital while big banks prosper, and thus inclined to think the deck is stacked against them.
No Seat for Wall Street at Tea Party - WSJ.com

While it's true that the difference between the two group's is in the methods by which they choose to be heard in the public forum. Further, the kids that are involved in OWS seem to have less of a clear message as the Tea Party movement does, on the surface it does appear that they share the above in common. As I indicated like most groups, and OWS seems to be no different they tend to attract just about everyone with an agenda. I would hesitate however and won't just lump all these kids into one catagory of lazy,homeless, etc. because I have not been there and do not know what it's made up of. I'm very sure however, that again like most groups there are some well meaning kids there, and some not so well meaning ones. That does not change my original message in that these groups like OWS have my admiration for exercising a right given to them, to voice their concerns in the public forum. As does the Tea Party. While many in the political arena may not like it when you compare the two, there are several instances where the two groups do appear to have a common message and that message is that our Govt. and this nation needs to focus on the people of this nation for a change.

On a side note , to the claim that these young people wish to "bring down Capitalism" to paraphrase, I have no idea if that is the main goal of everyone at OWS and nor does anyone else. While true, there are groups involved there that have that goal, I am led to believe that for many the goal is simply to point out that the following and to fix it.

I think most Americans perceive today that the middle class is collapsing, poverty is increasing, real unemployment–as you know–is about 16 percent; 25 million people without jobs or underemployed,” said Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) in a video from the The Associated Press.

“And yet at the same time we have growing inequality—income and wealth inequality in America,” he added.

“The top 1 percent earns more income than the bottom 50 percent. The wealthiest 400 people own more wealth than the bottom 150 million Americans,” he said. “And that gap is the greatest of any major country on earth.”
Fed Chairman Bernanke To Sen. Sanders (I-Vt.): The Wealth Gap Is a ‘Real Concern’ | TheBlaze.com

I might point out too, and I've said this as well, while I don't agree with the methods of OWS and of course those that are making fools of themselves by any number of physically disgusting actions should be pointed out and condemned. Having said that it dooes not take away from all those young people there who are there to let their voices be heard , even though we may or may not agree with them.

 

[editec]

Does anyone else remember "Harrison Bergeron" or am I alone?

Maybe we should make this 101 for the idiot McCains and the Lindsays of the universe to understand what we are facing from the left.

Yeah, I remember the story.

A great satirical way to object to any change in society is to take those proposals to absurd examples, as was one in that short story.

Now, TD, as yourself this: do you really think anybody at OWS or the TPM is proposing that kind of over the top solution?

If there are, I don't think anyone who is proposing that sort of absurdity is being taken seriously by a whole lot of people, do you?

For example, some TP players wore guns and carried signs suggesting they were going to overthrow the government.

How many of their fellow TP protestors took them seriously?

In the OWS event, some players there are calling for a national salary for every person in America.

Do you think many people in that movement take THOSE folks seriously?

There's going to be truly insane people in every POPULIST movement. That's just the nature of humankind.

That doesn't mean that everyone involved in that movement buys into their absurd solutions.

 

[Bfgrn]

They're past the 'peacefully assemble' part. Not to mention the fact that they are being manipulated by those who are funding and organized it.

rights given to them under the constitution and for the most part peacefully should be admired.

I personally believe that given the sheer number of these young people that are invloved in this thing, that for the most part yes they are peaceful. While yes there have been arrests of some, would someone point out to me where there has been real violence involved in these protests, other than the fact where you had an Officer with the NYPD, use his Pepper Spray in a manner not perscribed by the Department? If there has been then I have yet to see it.

An internal New York Police Department review has found a senior police officer violated NYPD guidelines when he used pepper spray on Occupy Wall Street protesters last month, ABC confirmed.
NYPD Cop Disciplined Over Occupy Wall Street Pepper Spray - ABC News

I have absolutely no issue with them 'peacefully' assembling. I have an issue with those behind this 'spontaneous' protest. I dislike my fellow Americans being manipulated by people with an agenda that is dangerous to our Constitution. Simple as that.

I also have an issue with the left who high five these people's right to peacefully assemble just months after decrying the TEA Partiers doing the same thing. They were mocked and called racists.... and that was not true. And they continue to repeat that bullshit about one side while ignoring far stronger evidence from these 'protesters'.

Gosh, golly, gee...maybe the tea partiers are just misunderstood. Just because they opened their very first national convention with a racist, xenophobe, Jim Crow tirade, greeted by wildly cheering tea partiers, we shouldn't read too much into that...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM-cEtUfJhI&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLEB90307A79B63C59]Ex-Congressman Tom Tancredo Racist Speech At Tea Party - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Navy1960]

In 1809, the U.S. Supreme Court decided Bank of the United States v. Devaux.10 Georgia had collected a state tax levied upon the Savannah branch of the Bank of the U.S., a federally-chartered corporation. The Bank sued in federal court to recover payment. Georgia denied the existence of a federal issue; Section 2, Article III of the Federal Constitution extended the jurisdiction of federal courts to cases "between citizens of different states." Corporations, insisted Georgia, were not citizens and thus could not have access to federal courts. The court agreed.

"That invisible, intangible, and artificial being, that mere legal entity, a corporation aggregate," declared Chief Justice John Marshall, "is certainly not a citizen."11 He held that only real persons could be citizens. The officers of the corporation, being real persons, could sue and be sued. But the corporation itself could not enter into federal legal procedures. The Devaux ruling included a proposition that the firm's owners could sue or be sued provided they lived in a state other than that of the contending side. The corporation's legal rights did not extend to citizenship.

A Short History of American Capitalism: INTRODUCTION

You know this conversation, does make me think of a few things here, and that is if one believes in the constitution as much as they say they do, then perhaps the word people should be worth a better look as it does appear in the constitution quite often as opposed to words like, " capitalism" and "corporation" and " job creators". I for one am of the opinion that when the nation spends more time and focus on it's people , then by default the economy and business prosper.

 

[MikeK]

The right to peaceably assemble will not survive the crime it has come to attract.

Specifically what crime are you referring to?

The right to peacefully assemble, like all rights has limits. Funny how the left adore this right NOW but complained bitterly about it when the right uses it.

I know the Left has been critical of the Right and their political positions but I've never read or heard any wish to suppress their freedom to speak out or assemble.

Could someone point out a recent event where the right illegally took over a park, destroying it in the process, illegally blocked traffic and spent over a month in violation of the laws?

I believe you've been tacitly misled by the word, "park," which in this example is not a park in the conventional sense of the word. Zuccotti Park in fact a rather small public square in Downtown Manhattan. And there are no more appropriate places for protesters to assemble than in a public square, which is precisely why the City's administration backed down on the threat to clear it out.

The People have a Consititutional right to assemble and to voice a protest and that right transcends the convenient flow of ordinary traffic.

While some of the protesters have technically violated certain administrative ordinances, with the exception of a recent rape allegation I am not aware of any "crimes" these people have committed. I would appreciate any specifics you can provide about their collective or individual "crimes."

 

[Katzndogz]

rights given to them under the constitution and for the most part peacefully should be admired.

I personally believe that given the sheer number of these young people that are invloved in this thing, that for the most part yes they are peaceful. While yes there have been arrests of some, would someone point out to me where there has been real violence involved in these protests, other than the fact where you had an Officer with the NYPD, use his Pepper Spray in a manner not perscribed by the Department? If there has been then I have yet to see it.

An internal New York Police Department review has found a senior police officer violated NYPD guidelines when he used pepper spray on Occupy Wall Street protesters last month, ABC confirmed.
NYPD Cop Disciplined Over Occupy Wall Street Pepper Spray - ABC News

I have absolutely no issue with them 'peacefully' assembling. I have an issue with those behind this 'spontaneous' protest. I dislike my fellow Americans being manipulated by people with an agenda that is dangerous to our Constitution. Simple as that.

I also have an issue with the left who high five these people's right to peacefully assemble just months after decrying the TEA Partiers doing the same thing. They were mocked and called racists.... and that was not true. And they continue to repeat that bullshit about one side while ignoring far stronger evidence from these 'protesters'.

Gosh, golly, gee...maybe the tea partiers are just misunderstood. Just because they opened their very first national convention with a racist, xenophobe, Jim Crow tirade, greeted by wildly cheering tea partiers, we shouldn't read too much into that...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM-cEtUfJhI&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLEB90307A79B63C59]Ex-Congressman Tom Tancredo Racist Speech At Tea Party - YouTube[/ame]

You think this was a racist tirade! Obviously you have never heard a racist tirade because this is definitely not it.

 

[Sunshine]

rights given to them under the constitution and for the most part peacefully should be admired.

I personally believe that given the sheer number of these young people that are invloved in this thing, that for the most part yes they are peaceful. While yes there have been arrests of some, would someone point out to me where there has been real violence involved in these protests, other than the fact where you had an Officer with the NYPD, use his Pepper Spray in a manner not perscribed by the Department? If there has been then I have yet to see it.

An internal New York Police Department review has found a senior police officer violated NYPD guidelines when he used pepper spray on Occupy Wall Street protesters last month, ABC confirmed.
NYPD Cop Disciplined Over Occupy Wall Street Pepper Spray - ABC News

I have absolutely no issue with them 'peacefully' assembling. I have an issue with those behind this 'spontaneous' protest. I dislike my fellow Americans being manipulated by people with an agenda that is dangerous to our Constitution. Simple as that.

I also have an issue with the left who high five these people's right to peacefully assemble just months after decrying the TEA Partiers doing the same thing. They were mocked and called racists.... and that was not true. And they continue to repeat that bullshit about one side while ignoring far stronger evidence from these 'protesters'.

Gosh, golly, gee...maybe the tea partiers are just misunderstood. Just because they opened their very first national convention with a racist, xenophobe, Jim Crow tirade, greeted by wildly cheering tea partiers, we shouldn't read too much into that...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM-cEtUfJhI&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLEB90307A79B63C59]Ex-Congressman Tom Tancredo Racist Speech At Tea Party - YouTube[/ame]

Calling Obama a 'socialist' is racist? Do tell, what can one call Obama that would not be racist? God? Lord? Savior? Anointed one? Pharaoh? King? Give us a clue here. It seems anyone who didn't vote for 0bama is racist. Now anyone who doesn't like him is racist as well.

 

[Sherry]

I support the right of any citizen to peacefully protest anything their heart desires, but I certainly don't have to admire them for doing so...especially if I view them as clueless idiots who are joining the movement for any number of erroneous and/or insincere motivations.

 

[Samson]

Here seems to be a typical OWS POV:

An economic solution that even the 1% can agree on. | OccupyWallSt.org Forum

I think it is important as we move forward to come up with arguments that can draw broad support. There is a simple economic argument against the current wealth distribution and tax inequality in this country.

We are a consumer based economy. 70% of our economy is driven by consumer spending. As the top 1% abduct more and more of the income and wealth they choke their consumers and kill the businesses that they are trying to support.


Henry Ford wisely attempted to make it possible for everyone who worked for him to be able to afford a Ford. It was not out of charity. It was an understanding that the working class is also the consuming class. "It is not the employer who pays the wages. Employers only handle the money. It is the customer who pays the wages."

The actions of the 1% have been killing the economy they rely on. They have forgotten that you can shear a sheep many times by fleece it only once. By paying the working class more, by hiring more workers, by respecting the labor of the working class, they will actually be improving not only the world that the 99% live in but also the world that they live in.

To summarize, the poster wants:

More Money.


I have to admit that 99% of the planet probably wants more money, but most realize that you cannot get it by stamping your little feet and throwing a tantrum

 

[Bfgrn]

I have absolutely no issue with them 'peacefully' assembling. I have an issue with those behind this 'spontaneous' protest. I dislike my fellow Americans being manipulated by people with an agenda that is dangerous to our Constitution. Simple as that.

I also have an issue with the left who high five these people's right to peacefully assemble just months after decrying the TEA Partiers doing the same thing. They were mocked and called racists.... and that was not true. And they continue to repeat that bullshit about one side while ignoring far stronger evidence from these 'protesters'.

Gosh, golly, gee...maybe the tea partiers are just misunderstood. Just because they opened their very first national convention with a racist, xenophobe, Jim Crow tirade, greeted by wildly cheering tea partiers, we shouldn't read too much into that...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sM-cEtUfJhI&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLEB90307A79B63C59]Ex-Congressman Tom Tancredo Racist Speech At Tea Party - YouTube[/ame]

Calling Obama a 'socialist' is racist? Do tell, what can one call Obama that would not be racist? God? Lord? Savior? Anointed one? Pharaoh? King? Give us a clue here. It seems anyone who didn't vote for 0bama is racist. Now anyone who doesn't like him is racist as well.

Absolutely racist, but not because he called our President 'a committed socialist ideologue'. That is just a ball faced lie.

Educate your self on the Jim Crow era in America...